Dr. Grammar, post: 6178350, member: 16448 wrote:
Sounds good. I can add them if you PM them to me.
JohnGrimm, post: 6180077, member: 12087 wrote:
Just a heads up, the icons for Ash and Takuma didn't come out right. They're still using the old 60x60 ones, although they seem to have the new file size.
Dr. Grammar, post: 6180495, member: 16448 wrote:
They work for me. Try clearing your cache.
blackgenma, post: 6183109, member: 6837 wrote:
this is minor, but the terry page doesn't list his EX Buster Wolf as projectile invincible. this goes for both the move list with icons and the move analysis in the strategy section.
Laban, post: 6183581, member: 18048 wrote:
Ok, thanks. I'll add that later. I generally thought it had invul. How far and how long does this projectile invulnerability extend throughout the move?
blackgenma, post: 6238463, member: 6837 wrote:
is kyo's hcb.k really lower body invincible? I was testing it out and terry's power wave knocks him out of it. (where in 12, it would not) is it only invincible to normals?
Teyah, post: 6330165, member: 1720 wrote:
Hello guys, I've got some frame data here and would like to throw it up on the wiki. Right now I've got Saiki's done, and plan to do a few more in the next little while. Is there a list of data that's already completed so that I know what I shouldn't waste time on doing?
phoenixnl, post: 6349067, member: 4694 wrote:
Hmm, that's odd. When I looked at hitstop I arrived at 7Frames and 11Frames (same as KOF2002)
The way you count blockstun is odd, or at least, different from the way it is traditionally done with KOF hitstun/blockstun.
A hit is only registered after the first hit, so the first active frame is over.
Teyah, post: 6355413, member: 1720 wrote:
This is incorrect, based on frame by frame review of how the engine registers hitstun/blockstun. A hit or block is registered on active frame 1. The defender is put into hitstun or blockstun immediately on this frame, and hitstop begins here as well. So on AF1, all of the following is occurring: AF1, Hitstop1, Hitstun1 (or Blockstun1). The animation for hitstun or blockstun is clearly present during hitstop so you can see here it doesn't wait until the first AF is over.
Hitstop is the total freeze time for a move on hit or block. This time is 8F for lights and 12F for heavies - this time includes the initial active frame and an additional 7 or 11 frames of additional freeze.
I'm aware of how KoF convention is to not include the first AF in startup, so that's how I'll be posting my data up.
Sharnt, post: 6361463, member: 45826 wrote:
SNKP will release soon a frame data.
Teyah, post: 6364047, member: 1720 wrote:
As the difference we (myself and phoenixnl) have been discussing relates to whether we count the first active frame or not, it's kind of arbitrary which way we count the frames. Since it's KoF convention to not include the hitting frame I'll leave it off and go with the KoF standard.
That being said, I've added complete frame data for Saiki on the wiki, can be found here:
I don't think I'll be going into this much detail for other characters though (it's a lot of work!).
King is up next and should be up tomorrow.
Laban, post: 6364435, member: 18048 wrote:
So many fucking numbers
phoenixnl, post: 6364447, member: 4694 wrote:
Don't you know? The only way you can be good at fighting games is to learn Math!
phoenixnl, post: 6364302, member: 4694 wrote:
Being completely aware just how much work this stuff is, I want to say: fantastic job!
But: The grab supers really should be "0+0" startup. Since you can punish Kyo's qcf+B with it which is -1 on block.
The exception to the rule are in fact grab supers that can punish Kyo qcf+B on block. These moves have their 1st invincible startup frame included in the freeze so moves like Saiki's grab, but also Daimon's and Clarks grab become 0+(30)+0 So with these grabs the opponent is frozen the first frame of 'startup'.
Also, I see that for the recovery of Saiki's fireball you've given the total animation frames. Why not do the recovery frames instead? simply 44-14 = 30 recovery would be fine right?
Teyah, post: 6367951, member: 1720 wrote:
This is actually not the case - the super freeze functions exactly the same for grab supers as it does for all other supers, the enemy can still move during the first frame. After some testing I noticed that the real issue behind why grabs work against -1 moves is due to how "grab check" works. For normal grabs at neutral, the actual grab "spark" appears on frame 2, but the grab check itself happens on frame 1 - meaning, that throws are immediate (active on 1). If you have an active frame overtop of an enemy on the first grab frame (pre-spark), it will just pass through them and you will get grabbed - because well, you were already grabbed.
The same happens with grab supers. Except, the "grab check" occurs during the last frame of super freeze. Meaning that in effect, the first and only active frame of a grab super occurs on frame 30 of super freeze. In Saiki's case, the extension of his hand after the freeze is actually part of his recovery frames, as that frame isn't a grab check frame - the one before it is.
So basically, it's 1F invul startup + 29 additional super freeze where everything is frozen - 1F at the end where your grab goes active but the enemy is still frozen. In other words, 1+29-1.
Or just 1-1.
Yeah that works too - but traditionally, frame data for all games (that I've seen anyway) lists projectiles with their startup and total frames only. Presumably because knowing the total time it takes to throw a fireball is the most important thing. And there are moves like Saiki's qcf+AC fireball which would be kind of ridiculous to read without a solid total frames number.
phoenixnl, post: 6368523, member: 4694 wrote:
O, one more thing. I haven't looked specifically at Saiki, but Kyo at least his st.CD actually does 23 frames of blockstun rather than 22.
This is because Kyo bestows 10 frames of hitstop on himself and 11 frames of hitstop, so the difference + 22 blockstun gives a total of 23 frames that the opponent cannot move.
I haven't looked at other characters for this yet, is this a Kyo only thing then?
Teyah, post: 6371700, member: 1720 wrote:
Just tested this, and Kyo's st.CD does 22F of blockstun (using traditional KoF counting, not mine), same as the others I've tested. There's definitely no difference in hitstop - both are in it for a total of 12 (or 11 if you don't count the hitting frame). Tested this on whiff too, and whether on whiff or block, it takes the same number of frames for Kyo to start a jump after doing CD, when subtracting 11F of extra hitstop.