Ultimate Arm, Bionic Arm. UMvC3 Spencer Combo Thread.

AdelheidAdelheid Perfectly BalancedJoined: Posts: 1,314
Legend
:l: = Light Attack
:m: = Medium Attack
:h: = Heavy Attack
:s: = Special
:atk: = :l: or :m: or :h:
:atk::atk: = :l:+:m: or :l:+:h: or :m:+:h:
, = link
|> = land
() optional part of combo
sj = super jump
j. = aerial/jumping
~ = Move followup (e.g. :qcf::l:~:h: means using Wire Grapple :l: and using the :h: followup.)
OTG = Off The Ground (A move that can hit OTG is capable of hitting the opponent after they've been knocked down, picking them up off the ground.)
TK = tiger knee (motion entered as :qcf::uf:, button press delayed until airborne to use the move faster than you could just jumping and entering motion.)
jcc = jump cancel cancel (motion entered as :qcf::uf:, button press delayed less than in TKing such that you cancel :s: to a super jump and immediately cancel jump startup to the grounded special move you want to use.)

Important concepts for Spencer combos
Despite a limited number of moves, Spencer has quite a large number of ways to extend his combos, and especially in the corner maximizing damage is all about knowing how to use his various tools. Because different situations and especially assist-based extenders can change what you can do beyond the scope a simple list of combos can cover, first we should go over various important things to note.

Unscaled Vertical Grapple
The most important thing. ground :qcf::h:~:l: deals unscaled damage; regardless of where it is in the combo, the :l: followup to vertical Wire Grapple hits for 80k. It would not be an exaggeration to say that maximizing Spencer's damage, for any given meter investment, is a matter of finding as many times as possible to connect an unscaled vertical grapple. But note that to do this, you have to be relatively under the opponent, so you need to set it up. As a rule, stuff like :l: :m: :h: :s: jcc :qcf::h: against a grounded opponent will not hit; they're not above you, so the wire will always miss. Various ways to set it up are discussed later and throughout this thread.

Zipline Pushing
Zipline (ground :b: or :ub: or :u: or :uf: or :f: + :s:+:atk:, air :b: or :db: or :d: or :df: or :f: + :s:+:atk:; hereon notated as a direction + zip, for instance :f:zip) seems like purely a mobility tool, and in fact does very little damage, but notably it has unscaled hitstun. No matter where in your combo you do Zipline, the opponent will be unable to recover for the same amount of time. This allows yourself to maneuver into the correct position to do various things even late in a combo.

Wallbounce Preservation
Air Wire Grapple (j.:qcf::atk:) can normally only be followed up once in a combo, as it uses up your wallbounce. But if an assist is called at the right time, the opponent can be hit after being picked up OTG before they'd be wallbounced, and you can do a followup without actually using the wallbounce, though you'll need a long assist like Amaterasu's Cold Star or Dante's Jam Session to recover and do a really strong followup. It's worth nothing that this can also be done after you've used your wallbounce if need be. The exact followup to do will of course depend on the situation and the assist.


Fixed Knockdown
j.:qcf::atk: has an interesting property wherein it inflicts a fixed knockdown upon the opponent if you use it after having already used up your wallbounce. They always get up in the same spot and cannot roll. After a long knockdown where you're free to move, such as after an air :s: spike close to the ground or a Reel in Punch (the :l: followup to ground wire grapple), you can super jump up before using a j.:qcf::h: to force a knockdown they recover from just before you land, allowing you to come down with a j.:s: or not and have immediate mixup. At times you can't, such as after Bionic Maneuvers, you can TK j.:qcf::h: and come down with a j.:m:. Any other move will be cancelled by landing just a bit too early, but j.:m:'s animation lifts Spencer up, allowing it to just barely hit.




Various Extenders, or Create Your Own Spencer Combo

:s: sj j.:m:, (delay) j.:df:zip, (delay) j.:h: |> :qcf::h:~:l:
Very strong thing to chain into at the start of a combo. In the corner, hits everyone; midscreen, fails against Rocket Raccoon always and is generally impractical against Arthur. Note that, since the j.:df:zip ends when it touches the edge of the screen, you generally can't do this out of a chain that begins with you in the corner of the screen (not necessarily the corner of the stage) or else you'll go past them with the zipline. It's good as long as you're even just a little bit out of the corner, though.

TK j.:qcf::s:, :m: :h: ( :s: jcc) :qcf::h:~:l:
Corner only. Valid only near the beginning of a combo. jcc version will not hit Firebrand, Arthur, Zero, Morrigan, Akuma, Viewtiful Joe, Rocket Raccoon, Wolverine, or X-23. :h: :qcf::h: version is less damaging but works on all of those characters except Rocket Raccoon and Viewtiful Joe.

TK j.:qcf::m:, j.:s: :f:zip, :df:zip |> ( :s: jcc) :qcf::h:~:l:
near corner, or if in corner first backstep so that you can hit the opponent with j.:qcf::m:. :s: jcc version is valid in combos without assists, but if you use much in the way of assist extenders you have to do the version without it. If your combo has multiple hypers and/or assist calls, you won't be able to connect this.

TK j.:qcf::h:, j.:s: (just before landing) |> :qcf::h:~:l:
Corner only. Often valid, but if you started a combo in the corner and did the TK j.:qcf::s: to UVG extender you won't be able to get this. Due to the j.:qcf::m: one being stronger and more reliable, this is best when you can't do that, for instance just after pushing the opponent to the corner with a Bionic Maneuvers.

TK :qcf::h:, j.:s: (just before landing) |> :qcf::s: :qcf::atk::atk: or TK :qcf::h:, j.:d::s:+:atk: |> :qcf::h: :qcf::atk::atk:
Though this is in the video, it's outdated. Best not to do it.

TK :qcf::h:, :df:zip :db:zip |> :qcf::h:~:l:
The "criss cross" ender has become standard when you can't get anything else, if you have a wallbounce you can always get this. To connect it against smaller opponents, hold down before the TK to avoid super jumping.



[j.:m: j.:h: :df:zip :s: |> :uf:j] xN
Where N is usually 2. This is the standard zip loop, also known as the G.X. loop after the player who popularized it. You can transition into this from various things, but it's most useful in a ground combo far from the corner.



Basic Combos

If the starter doesn't matter, it's stated as :d::l: as this is generally the lowest damage starter you could do and the associated damage is a baseline value.

Far from corner, 0 to 2 meter
:d::l: :d::m: :d::h: :uf:zip j.:m: |> :uf:j [j.:m: j.:h: :df:zip :s: |> :uf:j] x2 j.:m: j.:h: j.:s: :f:zip :f:zip :df:zip :d::h: :qcf::h:~:l:
0 meter: TK :qcf::h:, :df:zip :db:zip |> :qcf::h:~:l: (630.7k, gains 1.2 meter)
1 meter: :qcf::atk::atk:, TK :qcf::h:, :df:zip :db:zip |> :qcf::h:~:l: (722.2k, gains 1.2 - 1 meter)
2 meter: :qcf::atk::atk:, TK :qcf::h:, :df:zip :db:zip |> :qcf::h:~:l: :qcf::atk::atk: (913.7k, gains 1.2 - 2 meter)
Zip loop combo. See the above video for more information. Strong, reliable. Fails on Tron, alternate ender required on Sentinel/Rocket Raccoon as detailed in the video.

From a bit behind midstage, 0 or 1 meter
:d::l: :d::m: :h: :s: sj j.:m: slight delay j.:df:zip, slight delay j.:h: |> :qcf::h:~:l: dash a short bit TK j.:qcf::m:, j:s: j.:f:zip j.:df:zip |> :s: jcc :qcf::h:~:l:,
0 meter: sj j.:qcf::h: (580.4k, gains .8 meter)
1 meter: TK j.:qcf::s: :qcf::atk::atk: (775.5k, gains .95 - 1 meter)
Against RR/Arthur or if you started from screen corner, better to do a zip loop combo (above). The alternate combo shown in the following video is obsolete.



Midstage to corner, 0 or 1 meter
:d::l: :d::m: :h: :s: sj j.:m: slight delay j.:df::s:+:atk:, slight delay j.:h: |> :qcf::h:~:l: (dash up) TK j.:qcf::s:, :m: :h: ( :s: jcc vs larger characters) :qcf::h:~:l:, backstep TK j.:qcf::m:, j:s: j.:f:zip j.:df:zip |> ( :s: jcc if you skipped the previous :s: jcc) :qcf::h:~:l:, end with sj j.:qcf::h: (692.4k, gains 1.15 meter) or :qcf::atk::atk: (883.9k, gains 1.25 - 1 meter) (on certain characters can link :qcf::s: before :qcf::atk::atk: for +18k damage)
Midscreen, against Arthur or if you started from screen corner, replace the sj j.:m: slight delay j.:df::s:+:atk:, slight delay j.:h: |> :qcf::h:~:l: with sj j.:m: j.:m: j:h: j.:df::s:+:atk: j.:s:. In the corner.
Against RR/Joe, TK j.:qcf::s:, :m: :h: :qcf::h:~:l: won't connect; do TK j.:qcf::s:, :m: :h: :qcf::l:~:l: instead.

Midstage to corner, 2 meter

:d::l: :d::m: :h: :s: sj j.:m: slight delay j.:df::s:+:atk:, slight delay j.:h: |> :qcf::h:~:l:(dash up) TK j.:qcf::s:, :m: :h: ( :s: jcc vs larger characters) :qcf::h:~:l:, backstep jump j.:qcf::s: :qcf::atk::atk:, TK j.:qcf::h: (delay) :df:zip :db:zip |> :qcf::h:~:l::qcf::atk::atk: (1046.5k, gains 1.05-2 meter)
Notes are as above. The 1 meter version of this combo sets up sj j.:qcf::h: to :s: but is obsoleted by the ability to use safe jump j.:m: off of TK :qcf::h: in the previous combo's 1-meter version, which is much better guaranteed damage.



From a command throw, it's usually best to go into zip loops midscreen or a quick :m: :h: UVG in the corner to finishing a corner combo. Against Sentinel, or Tron midscreen, TK a bionic comber into whatever basic combo you can.
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Comments

  • AdelheidAdelheid Perfectly Balanced Joined: Posts: 1,314
    edited May 2013
    Throw Combos

    In the corner, ground or air throw
    (TK) j.:qcf::h:, falling j.:s: (just above ground) |> :qcf::h:~:l: TK j.:qcf::s:, :m: :h: ( :s: jcc) :qcf::h:~:l: :qcf::atk::atk: (565k, gains .7 - 1 meter)



    Reverse corner to near corner from air back throw/behind midstage from air forward throw, 0-1 meter
    |> normal jump to moderate height j.:qcf::h:, :df:zip |> :m: :h: :s: sj j.:m: j.:m: j.:h: :f:zip :f:zip :f:zip :s: (214.4k, gains .7 meter)
    1 meter: TK j.:qcf::s: :qcf::atk::atk: (421.1k, gains .7 -1 meter)
    Can technically be done from forward ground throw starting with TK :qcf::m:, but this is extremely tight, possibly one frame unbufferable, so I wouldn't bother.



    Behind midstage to corner, air forward throw (not minimum height), 0-1 meter
    (without landing) j.:qcf::s:, :m: :d::h: :s: sj j.:m: (delay) :df:zip, (delay) j.:h: |> :qcf::h:~:l:. (dash up) TK j.:qcf::m:, falling :s: :f:zip :df:zip :s: :qcf:h:~:l: (415.9k, gains .85 meter)
    1 meter: :qcf::atk::atk: (607.4k, gains .85 - 1 meter)

    Midstage to corner, air forward throw (not minimum height), 2 meter

    (without landing) j.:qcf::s:, :m: :d::h: :s: sj j.:m: (delay) :df:zip, (delay) j.:h: |> :qcf::h:~:l:. (dash to correct position) TK j.:qcf::s: (shockwave only hit) :qcf::atk::atk:, TK :qcf::h: :df:zip: :db:zip: :qcf::h:~:l: :qcf::atk::atk: (788.4k, gains 0.85 - 2 meter)
    Requires fairly specific positioning, but if you're already in the corner before the bomber on everyone but sent and hulk you can backstep jump to get to the right positioning. Only the shockwave of the bomber must connect, if the main body does then they'll immediately tech roll since you've already used your ground bounce.



    Wire Grapple Combos

    Away from corner
    ~:l:, short dash neutral jump to full height, j.:qcf::m:, :df:zip, j.:h: |> :uf: j.:m: j.:h: j.:df:zip (slight delay) j.:s: |> :qcf::h:~:l: (400.5k, gains 0.55 meter)
    1 meter: (dash) TK :qcf::s: :qcf::atk::atk: (632.0k, gains 0.7 meter)

    In corner, for 0-1 meter
    ~:l:, dash up TK j.:qcf::s:, :m: :h: ( :s: jcc) :qcf::h:~:l:, backstep TK j.:qcf::m:, falling :s: :f:zip :df:zip |> :s: :qcf:h:~:l: (563.5k, gains 0.7 meter)
    1 meter: (backstep jump) j.:qcf::s: :qcf::atk::atk: (782.9k, gains 0.85 meter)
    Against RR/Joe, do replace the first :qcf::h: with :qcf::l:.
    Backstep jump Bionic Bomber doesn't get a shockwave-only hit against Sentinel or Hulk, so just cancel from Reel-in Punch to Bionic Maneuvers.

    In corner, for 2 meter
    ~:l:, dash up TK j.:qcf::s:, :m: :h: ( :s: jcc) :qcf::h:~:l: :qcf::atk::atk:, TK j.:qcf::h:, falling j.:s: (just above ground) |> :qcf::h:~:l: TK j.:qcf::s: :qcf::atk::atk: (919.7k, gains .8 - 2 meter)
    Against RR/Joe, do replace the first :qcf::h: with :qcf::l:.



    CHARACTERS YOU CAN UPGRAPPLE TO PIERCER:

    Amaterasu, Akuma, Arthur, Felicia, Firebrand, Frank West, Hsien-Ko, Viewtiful Joe, Morrigan, Phoenix Wright, Tron, Vergil, Zero, M.O.D.O.K., Rocket Raccoon, Shuma-Gorath, X-23, Wolverine
    Post edited by Adelheid on
  • :034::034: has enough tools to take down jokers like you. Joined: Posts: 473
    Stark, you da bess. Get well soon!
    | UMvC3: Spencer/Doom/Hawkeye |
  • ZansamZansam Frank Time! Joined: Posts: 1,289
    Thanks for re-doing the combo thread Stark, much appreciated. By the way, I've been tinkering with your jawbreaker infinite a bit. Assist + a few Hs and Ss doesn't cause too much decay on the flip out, so that can help both Spencer's approach and the push to the corner (with Frank's shopping cart + air S > HS sj HS Bomber I can get to the corner and still have the proper decay midscreen). One thing to point out though, they can call assists during the flip out, which for most assists won't matter. However, for ones are close range and that last long enough after the jawbreaker animation (cold star, tenderizer, etc) it'll break the loop.
    The dream is dead.
  • AdelheidAdelheid Perfectly Balanced Joined: Posts: 1,314
    Thanks for re-doing the combo thread Stark, much appreciated. By the way, I've been tinkering with your jawbreaker infinite a bit. Assist + a few Hs and Ss doesn't cause too much decay on the flip out, so that can help both Spencer's approach and the push to the corner (with Frank's shopping cart + air S > HS sj HS Bomber I can get to the corner and still have the proper decay midscreen). One thing to point out though, they can call assists during the flip out, which for most assists won't matter. However, for ones are close range and that last long enough after the jawbreaker animation (cold star, tenderizer, etc) it'll break the loop.

    Yeah I'll talk about it in a resets section. I went through the guide examining frame data and the characters who can't really get out of it are ghost rider, iron fist, nemesis, phoenix wright, vergil (when not feeling motivated), hulk, sentinel (if he has no meter), she-hulk, taskmaster, akuma, arthur, haggar, hsien-ko, ryu, spencer, tron. It's enough to be noteworthy.
  • motion51motion51 Joined: Posts: 387
    However, for ones are close range and that last long enough after the jawbreaker animation (cold star, tenderizer, etc) it'll break the loop.

    just remember that his command grab is hyper-cancellable. not sure how much itll help when the time comes though.
  • YannickYannick Max Range Panta Rhei Joined: Posts: 4,467
    :eek: This thread is delicious.

    I hope to be contributing very soon.
    The Sunset Studio // Destiny: Rise of Iron, Fighters, Development, Mechanics, Strategy, Media.
  • ZansamZansam Frank Time! Joined: Posts: 1,289
    just remember that his command grab is hyper-cancellable. not sure how much itll help when the time comes though.

    In this case, not so much. What I'm referring to is that some assists have such a long animation that even after you land your jawbreaker, you still get hit after the throw animation is done. When it comes to calling the assist during the reset, all assists take a good half second to even get on the screen, so by then they've already flipped and eaten the jawbreaker.
    The dream is dead.
  • Shin_Akuma_Shin_Akuma_ AKA Non-SmokeMaster Joined: Posts: 706
    Just started playing Spencer yesterday and found out this pretty neat corner combo:

    Cr:l:, cr:m:, cr:h:,:uf:+:s:+:atk:, j:m:(Land), j:m:, j:h:, j:s:,:d:+:s:+:atk:(Land), j:m:, j:h:, j:s:, :d:+:s:+:atk:(Land), st:m:, st:h:, :qcf:+:l:~:l:, :qcf::uf:+:s:(OTG)xx:qcf:+:atk::atk:,:qcf::uf:+:h:(Wall Bounce, Land), :qcf:+:s:xx:qcb:+:atk::atk:, :qcf::uf:+:h:

    The combo itself does 739,100 damage and requires 1 meter to start. It builds 1.1 meter, so basically when the second hyper comes up you should be able to perform the full combo.

    The Cr:l:, cr:m:, cr:h:,:uf:+:s:+:atk:, j:m:(Land), j:m:, j:h:, j:s:,:d:+:s:+:atk: is a loop. The loop can be performed any where on the screen. It looks something like this:



    I didn't know until reading Stark's combos that you can jump cancel his lancher into wire grappler. So the damage for that combo has increased to 819,900
    3rd Strike
    Main: Akuma
    Sub: Twelve
    STHD
    Main: E. Honda
    Sub: Everyone else.
    Awesome Avatar by Vegett0!!!
  • AdelheidAdelheid Perfectly Balanced Joined: Posts: 1,314
    It is done. First post updated with so many videos.

    What do people think?
  • neiluj95neiluj95 scrub Joined: Posts: 19
    Corner-to-corner combo ending in vertical grapple:

    c.:l:c.:m::h::s: sj j.:m: j.:h: j.:s:+:atk:, j.:s:+:atk:, j.:df::s:+:atk:, j.:s: |> dash up TK j.:qcf::h: delay j.:s:+:atk:, j.:df::s:+:atk: |> :s: jcc :qcf::h:~:l: (~480k, didn't check the meter gain)

    Doesn't work on small characters.
    zzz
  • AdelheidAdelheid Perfectly Balanced Joined: Posts: 1,314
    So while trying to create some new content to post in the OP of this thread, I realized that Bionic Bomber has an interesting property; if you only OTG with the shockwave, it doesn't use up the groundbounce for whatever reason, and you can do a Bionic Bomber later. Or you can do a clean-hit Bionic Bomber and then later OTG with only the shockwave and they'll be picked up as normal. I had a big writeup about it, but then I was like

    you know what

    this is totally irrelevant

    And I erased my writeup since it basically has no applicability.

    But on Rocket Raccoon, Joe, and Arthur, if you do bionic bomber in the corner and do whatever combo to wire grapple (or just do it straight to wire grapple) and then reel-in punch, you can jump back and use bionic bomber and it'll only hit with the shockwave 'cause they're so small, so you can get in an extra bomber that you immediately cancel to super. Technically you can dash back and TK the bomber on a few slightly larger characters, but it makes it pretty hard to meaningfully follow that up and in particular you get put too far back to link to UVG which would outweigh the damage boost from an extra bomber. Though you'd still get extra metergain if you're into that.

    I was thinking about maybe recording video of this, but then I was like. This is totally irrelevant. I tried really hard to find a way to use this that might possibly more damage than you could get without it, but ultimately only found ways to get more damage during combos where that damage is irrelevant because the few characters you can do this to would die without it anyway. I guess it's slightly more metergain, but pfft, whatever.

    But then I went and recorded it anyway as proof that I'm not making it up, thinking that maybe someone else would find something useful with it.

  • Shin_Akuma_Shin_Akuma_ AKA Non-SmokeMaster Joined: Posts: 706
    *Snip*
    I don't know about you, but that will be useful info for me. Good shit Stark!
    3rd Strike
    Main: Akuma
    Sub: Twelve
    STHD
    Main: E. Honda
    Sub: Everyone else.
    Awesome Avatar by Vegett0!!!
  • wmd221wmd221 Joined: Posts: 121
    Thread is stellar, great format, videos, etc.
  • vizard2605vizard2605 Down for the Count! Joined: Posts: 243
    re-post.

    corner combo on tron...

    j.hs, c.m s.h S mh d/f grapple S TK DFA l.wire grapple ~ reel in punch xx bionic maneuvers, h.otg wire falling S S xx h wire ~ reel in punch, wesker OTG assist dash s xx h grapple ~ reel in punch, armour piercer xx bionic maneuvers, h.otg

    1,111,600 damage

    2 bars 1 assist.

    this combo SHOULD also work on: Modok, Shuma gorath, Ammaterasu, viewtiful joe, arthur, (rocket raccoon?)

    the above combo does

    1,093,600 damage without the armour piercer at the end... that makes it completely universal

    thoughts?

    i can't help but feel that this combo can be heavily optimized...

    but i don't know how.
    Tekken: Bryan/Devil Jin
    BlazBlue: Valkenhayn
    UMvC3: Magneto(a)/Ironman(a)/Dr.Doom(b) (my most flexible team atm.)
  • wmd221wmd221 Joined: Posts: 121


    Midstage to corner, 0 or 1 meter
    :d::l: :d::m: :h: :s: sj j.:m: slight delay j.:df::s:+:atk:, slight delay j.:h: |> :qcf::h:~:l: (dash up) TK j.:qcf::s:, :m: :h: ( :s: jcc) :qcf::h:~:l:, backstep TK j.:qcf::m:, j:s: j.:f::s:+:atk: j.:df::s:+:atk: |> :s: jcc :qcf::h:~:l:, end with sj j.:qcf::h: (692.4k, gains 1.15 meter) or cancel the last Reel in Punch to :qcf::atk::atk: (870.9k, gains 1.15 - 1 meter)
    Midscreen, against Arthur or if you started from screen corner, replace the sj j.:m: slight delay j.:df::s:+:atk:, slight delay j.:h: |> :qcf::h:~:l: with sj j.:m: j.:m: j:h: j.:df::s:+:atk: j.:s:. In the corner.
    Against RR/Joe, TK j.:qcf::s:, :m: :h: :qcf::h:~:l: won't connect; do TK j.:qcf::s:, :m: :h: :qcf::l:~:l: instead.

    I've been having a strange issue today and I don't know whats causing it because I've been doing this for a while now and never seen it, after the dash back TK M Grapple characters have just been flopping out as soon as the Air S connects before the forward wire zip hits and I don't know why, any ideas? I don't think its directly related to how much HSD I have in the combo because I can make it substantially longer or substantially shorter and still see the same issue, and I don't think its because I'm not wire zipping fast enough.
  • AdelheidAdelheid Perfectly Balanced Joined: Posts: 1,314
    I've been having a strange issue today and I don't know whats causing it because I've been doing this for a while now and never seen it, after the dash back TK M Grapple characters have just been flopping out as soon as the Air S connects before the forward wire zip hits and I don't know why, any ideas? I don't think its directly related to how much HSD I have in the combo because I can make it substantially longer or substantially shorter and still see the same issue, and I don't think its because I'm not wire zipping fast enough.

    It's weird. You need to connect with the j.:s: at the right time. If you wait a bit too long, they flip out. Not really sure why, but that's what I've observed.

    Also, if you've been following my youtube channel you might have noticed that earlier today I set my multi-use bionic bomber video to unlisted. That's because I was working on this. I found some uses for it after all :3

  • ZansamZansam Frank Time! Joined: Posts: 1,289
    re-post.

    corner combo on tron...

    j.hs, c.m s.h S mh d/f grapple S TK DFA l.wire grapple ~ reel in punch xx bionic maneuvers, h.otg wire falling S S xx h wire ~ reel in punch, wesker OTG assist dash s xx h grapple ~ reel in punch, armour piercer xx bionic maneuvers, h.otg


    i can't help but feel that this combo can be heavily optimized...

    but i don't know how.

    This was more or less the combo I found for Spencer/Wesker a few days ago. I -think- you could optimize it by starting with a S sj M Zip line H unscaled wiregrapple into TK DFA and proceed from there. it'd likely made your third wire grapple harder/potentially impossible depending on the hitstun decay. I personally haven't bothered testing it since my input isn't at a level to reliably land it in conjunction with currently having Frank in 2nd spot so I'm generally aiming to TAC or DHC into him for his photo op.

    All that said, bear in mind as Stark as pointed out previously this is less of a practical use and more of a hypothetical since you're starting with jumping HS (and starting in the corner, which can happen but is again idealized).
    The dream is dead.
  • LemonCutterLemonCutter Joined: Posts: 11
    This thread is amazing. Thanks for all the effort you put into this.
  • wmd221wmd221 Joined: Posts: 121
    It's weird. You need to connect with the j.:s: at the right time. If you wait a bit too long, they flip out. Not really sure why, but that's what I've observed.

    Also, if you've been following my youtube channel you might have noticed that earlier today I set my multi-use bionic bomber video to unlisted. That's because I was working on this. I found some uses for it after all :3


    Thats the conclusion I came to but I thought I would ask anyway, it surprised me because I've never had this problem before and suddenly I can't do the combo at all for the life of me. Oh well, messing around with just a normal TK H grapple and that seems to fix the problem somewhat but has its own timing kinks.

    Nice video btw.

    Edit: Well, just in case anybody else is having the same issue I am ( I doubt it ), I found a great way to build muscle memory for the perfect timing. Using Stark's original video of the combo you can see the exact timing of when to S into Wire Zip if you watch where spencer / wolverine are in comparison to the line of inputs :P
  • AdelheidAdelheid Perfectly Balanced Joined: Posts: 1,314
    So, I'm going to visit my family for thanksgiving tomorrow and won't be back home 'til sunday. I'll may some stuff up for post 2, but I won't be able to add video until then. I do have some extra special stuff to show off, though.
  • TinaciousTinacious Look at your cat, now back to me Joined: Posts: 70
    I picked up Spencer about a week ago and I'm okay with some of the combos, but this thread is really amazing. I didn't know the Bomber used up groundbounces and I was trying to combo 2 of them together from point blank after a H~S grapple.

    I'm still having trouble with the first extender. When I try to do the combo, I get :s: j:m: :df: :atk:+:s:, and then :h: whiffs most of the time. Does it matter how early I hit j:m:?
  • AdelheidAdelheid Perfectly Balanced Joined: Posts: 1,314
    I'm still having trouble with the first extender. When I try to do the combo, I get :s: j:m: :df: :atk:+:s:, and then :h: whiffs most of the time. Does it matter how early I hit j:m:?

    Basically, try to hit M during jump startup, so that it gets buffered and comes out at the earliest possible moment. Then wait a bit for you to ascend over the opponent, and do the zipline down-right. After it ends, wait just a bit to start falling and do the j.:h:, so that you quickly hit the ground but still do hit with the j.:h:.
  • ZombieNickZombieNick braainnsss! Joined: Posts: 18
    Great thread, the videos are very helpful.
    PSN: ZombieNick-
  • WizkhalifaWizkhalifa Joined: Posts: 1
    Great thread.. Im having trouble with a combo Im doin..it goes..
    :l: :m: :h: :s: :h: :df::s:+:l::h: :qcf::h:-:l: tk:qcf::s: :m: :h: :s: into tk :qcf::h:-:l:

    the problem occurs after i do the tk bionic bomber and then try to follow up with :m: to :h:... the :m: always hits but sometimes they randomly drop out after the :m: and i cant get the :h: into launch..I can connect the :m: :h: sometimes but it seems random? can ne one help:)
  • YannickYannick Max Range Panta Rhei Joined: Posts: 4,467
    :eek: From my experimentation, it depends on a few things.

    First, if this is training mode, I find it's best if you try not to use the :m: as a confirm; that is, if you know the timing to link :m: after Bomber, then just tap out that :m:, :h:, :s: series...don't try to make sure you hit them :m: first and then try to get the rest. Get confidence in the timing and tap the series out. The link may have some leniency in the way of a few frames (less than 5, I'd imagine...I should actually do some research), so try adjusting your timing to be a bit faster on the :m:, perhaps. That short wait between the Bomber and the :m: may be what's letting folks pop out of your series as well. Try tweaking those two areas and see what you find.

    Next, if this is in-match, the problem may be whether you're leading in with assists or not. If that isn't then problem, then maybe the adjustments suggested for training mode will prove helpful.
    The Sunset Studio // Destiny: Rise of Iron, Fighters, Development, Mechanics, Strategy, Media.
  • Mystic KalMystic Kal Joined: Posts: 147
    All of this isn't revolutionary as most of it (if not all) was taken off PR balrog's inspired videos. I made them to help a friend of mine but someone else may still find this useful.





    You must defeat my mashing to stand a chance against me!

    My SF channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TackleTackleHeadbutt?feature=mhee
  • fiddlestixfiddlestix Joined: Posts: 309
    I'm currently using hulk/spencer/doom and im having a ton of trouble landing the missle assist on the right corner. Left corner works all the time, and the right corner seems to not work consistently. Has anyone else had problems with this?
  • Van VogelVan Vogel Joined: Posts: 234
    Sorry if this one has already been posted, but I've been doing a corner BNB that doesn't require you to do any TKed bombers (you have to tk an air grapple otg, but the window for those is easier and more familiar at this point anyway), and no jump cancel cancel vertical grapples, and it does 934,700 damage for really easy execution.

    :l: :m: :h: :s: sj j.:m: j.:h: j.:s:, (before landing) air Bionic Bomber, xx (upon landing) Bionic Maneuvers, :qcf::uf:+:h: to otg, then just before hitting the ground, j. :s:, land, :qcf:+:h:xx:l: (reel in punch), then normal jump forward and quickly do a Bionic Bomber, into Bionic maneuvers, and then a final OTG H air grapple. You need to start with about 1.1 meters, and it gets you 934,700 damage.
  • vizard2605vizard2605 Down for the Count! Joined: Posts: 243
    spencer gets over 1million with 2 bars solo!

    i did the optimization of my previous combo!

    plus! i landed it online.

    and for you stark! it starts from a j.S.

    1,051,700 damage 2 bars corner

    j.s c.m s.h S mh d/f zip line S. tk DFA mh xx h grapple ~ l xx maneuvers, h.otg grapple, falling S, s.S xx H wire grapple ~ L xx maneuvers, h.otg grapple

    :D

    interesting thing about this combo, is that if you start it from just outside the corner... you seem to get the TK DFA with only the shockwave hitting, haven't experimented with it yet. because it's very situational...
    Tekken: Bryan/Devil Jin
    BlazBlue: Valkenhayn
    UMvC3: Magneto(a)/Ironman(a)/Dr.Doom(b) (my most flexible team atm.)
  • MiikeyBoiiMiikeyBoii Joined: Posts: 296
    I'm currently using hulk/spencer/doom and im having a ton of trouble landing the missle assist on the right corner. Left corner works all the time, and the right corner seems to not work consistently. Has anyone else had problems with this?

    when i do it, i usually walk forward as a i call doom, and when he's 100% out, i stop and prepare the first verticle grapple...doesnt work on all characters tho
  • vizard2605vizard2605 Down for the Count! Joined: Posts: 243
    ah. starks starter... does MORE damage solo.

    j.s, c.m s.hS m d/f zip, H land h grapple l follow up, tk DFA, smh xx h grapple ~ l xx maneuvers, h.otg grapple, falling S, sS x h wire grapple ~ l xx maneuvers. h.otg

    1,102,100

    damn... barely anyone is safe from spencer... now =/

    dhc into proton cannon (turbo on for mash) 1,291,400

    who needs lvl3's?
    Tekken: Bryan/Devil Jin
    BlazBlue: Valkenhayn
    UMvC3: Magneto(a)/Ironman(a)/Dr.Doom(b) (my most flexible team atm.)
  • Fix Up Look SharpFix Up Look Sharp Joined: Posts: 11
    Hey, can somebody help me out with a combo using Firebrand's swoop assist?

    In the corner, I do whatever into hard knockdown with grapple L, then call Firebrand assist and DFA. Firebrand hits after the otg, putting them in a spinning state and giving me time for a vertical grapple. But I can really only get this to work sometimes, Firebrand usually seems to hit at the same time DFA does, and the combo doesn't work. If someone can help me figure out the spacing/timing to make this combo consistent, I'd appreciate it.
  • vizard2605vizard2605 Down for the Count! Joined: Posts: 243
    Hey, can somebody help me out with a combo using Firebrand's swoop assist?

    In the corner, I do whatever into hard knockdown with grapple L, then call Firebrand assist and DFA. Firebrand hits after the otg, putting them in a spinning state and giving me time for a vertical grapple. But I can really only get this to work sometimes, Firebrand usually seems to hit at the same time DFA does, and the combo doesn't work. If someone can help me figure out the spacing/timing to make this combo consistent, I'd appreciate it.

    all i can say for things like this is to call the assist as late as possible...

    to do this, firstly you need to make sure youre NOT doing a super jump to the TK bomber, you can do this by HOLDING down before inputting the motion, this gives you a lower tk, AND the ability to call assists, the next thing is alot harder, but is pretty useful for these things

    calling the assist during the motion. this is easier than on the ground due to snap backs, but the motion should be

    [2]369 A1~S

    on the ground it's more like

    23 A1 6 S

    not home right now so i cannot test. but I hope this helped you out.
    Tekken: Bryan/Devil Jin
    BlazBlue: Valkenhayn
    UMvC3: Magneto(a)/Ironman(a)/Dr.Doom(b) (my most flexible team atm.)
  • fiddlestixfiddlestix Joined: Posts: 309
    when i do it, i usually walk forward as a i call doom, and when he's 100% out, i stop and prepare the first verticle grapple...doesnt work on all characters tho
    Thats what I was afraid of, sadness.
    In vanilla it worked on everyone that mattered like a charm, now I can't land it on wolvie in the right corner like 70-80% of the time which is too much when it counts.
    Maybe I'll change hidden missiles for beam so I can approach easier and just do two maneuvers in one combo to compensate for damage. Which sucks because I enjoy having tons of meter to burn.
  • catalancatalan Joined: Posts: 383
    ah. starks starter... does MORE damage solo.

    j.s, c.m s.hS m d/f zip, H land h grapple l follow up, tk DFA, smh xx h grapple ~ l xx maneuvers, h.otg grapple, falling S, sS x h wire grapple ~ l xx maneuvers. h.otg

    1,102,100

    damn... barely anyone is safe from spencer... now =/

    dhc into proton cannon (turbo on for mash) 1,291,400

    who needs lvl3's?

    im having a problem after the first maneuvers landing the falling j.s, s xx h wire grapple does anyone have any tips landing this?
  • wmd221wmd221 Joined: Posts: 121
    its much easier if you cut out the second S and just make it J. S into H wire grapple and you barely lose any damage
  • AdelheidAdelheid Perfectly Balanced Joined: Posts: 1,314
    I'm not sure I'd say it's easier. j.:s: j.:s: |> :s: jcc :qcf::h: is not difficult. The issue is that... It doesn't work against most characters. I'm pretty sure, anyway; when I saw it in Japanese vids before the game came out, I was all, "Yeah, I can't really get that to work, is it character specific" and I switched my training dummy to the person they were fighting and it worked every time, so...

    ALSO
    Stark wrote:
    Mr. Trite wrote:
    I've started using him recently and your videos are amazing.

    There's only one thing you haven't covered yet which is post overhead combos.

    Especially in the corner, he seems pretty lacking post overhead since they bounce over your head, so is there something I'm missing besides going right into a basic abc launch combo?

    To be honest, in that situation, I generally try to go for an assist based combo, so I'm not really sure what to do in the general case... Normally when I get a question like this I'm like, "Hmm, what CAN you do" and go into training mode for an hour or something messing around with different options, but I'm with my family for Thanksgiving, and won't be back at my console until Sunday... Sorry >_<

    What do you all do in this situation?
  • catalancatalan Joined: Posts: 383
    I dont have a go to corner overhead combo yet, but if im reverse corner and land an overhead i typically do this;

    cr.l, cr.m, h, overhead, qcf+s, dash forward, m, h, s, sj.m, sj.m, sj.h xx s+atkx3, sj.s

    This takes em to the opposite corner, i forget if youre able to land qcf+s otw down into manuevers since i was more focused on landing reverse corner midscreen combos last night. Ill do more testing and post back

    Also stark is there another way to go into that jawbreaker reset loop than off a command grab?
  • AdelheidAdelheid Perfectly Balanced Joined: Posts: 1,314
    Oh, there's tons of ways. That video is just showing how you can loop it and it will work on any tech direction; the only thing is that you need to not have so many air hits that they tech too high off a forward/back tech for you to grab them, and you need to have enough that they do tech instead of just falling to the ground after Bomber. But keep in mind that most characters have some way to get out of it, even if it's using an air jab fast enough that it comes out in the period between where they've recovered and you can throw them. I posted a list of the characters it worked on in the last thread...
  • catalancatalan Joined: Posts: 383
    Yeah i took note of the people it works on, guess ill just have to test what works when i get a chance. Thanks for all the useful info :)
  • Fix Up Look SharpFix Up Look Sharp Joined: Posts: 11
    all i can say for things like this is to call the assist as late as possible...

    to do this, firstly you need to make sure youre NOT doing a super jump to the TK bomber, you can do this by HOLDING down before inputting the motion, this gives you a lower tk, AND the ability to call assists, the next thing is alot harder, but is pretty useful for these things

    I didn't know about how to avoid doing a super jump, and that seems to be what does it. Thank you
  • VolfeVolfe Quaint Serenity (XBL) Joined: Posts: 160
    Anyone having an issue with the new bnb when you do J.B down toward zip, instead of zip I am constantly getting team aerial combo and it's slightly infuriating.
    Repping that Bionic arm since day1
    UMvC3: Iron Fist/Spencer/Hawk-eye "Bionic Fist"
    SSF4: Dudley/Cody/Oni "moar frametraps"
    BBCS2: Makoto, Tsubaki, Noel
  • YannickYannick Max Range Panta Rhei Joined: Posts: 4,467
    :eek: You are not pressing the buttons for zipline at the same time, is all.

    Get those inputs tighter and you should be seeing success in no time.
    The Sunset Studio // Destiny: Rise of Iron, Fighters, Development, Mechanics, Strategy, Media.
  • AdelheidAdelheid Perfectly Balanced Joined: Posts: 1,314
    :eek: You are not pressing the buttons for zipline at the same time, is all.

    Get those inputs tighter and you should be seeing success in no time.


    That's not even the issue, really. Normally there's some leniency with two-button inputs, they don't have to be simultaneous. But if you kara :s:~:atk: then you get TAC here, so... Kinda like how the old combo of :qcf::l: :qcf::atk::atk: had to have the two attacks pressed on the same frame, else you'd get a Wire Grapple extension instead of the Bionic Maneuvers you wanted. But there's an easy was around that for this case, which is to just try to kara :atk:~:s: if you're having problems instead of trying to press the two buttons simultaneously.
  • YannickYannick Max Range Panta Rhei Joined: Posts: 4,467
    :eek: Oh, I agree with you, but the way I look at it, if you aim for pressing the buttons simultaneously, you can err toward the kara (perhaps without even knowing it) and get the desired action regardless.

    If you aim for the kara, you can err further away from it and eventually not get the desired action.

    It sounds really prudish, but one of the things I try to focus on when dealing with my generally mediocre execution is cleaning up my inputs and I actually came across this same problem some time ago and actually tried your very solution. I find that aiming for the goal you can't particularly reach immediately (in terms of execution) helps more in the long run. I find this to be especially true when human error is tossed in the mix, as it will almost always be there unless you're really good or spend lots of time practicing.

    So in short, we're both right and Spencer is awesome.
    The Sunset Studio // Destiny: Rise of Iron, Fighters, Development, Mechanics, Strategy, Media.
  • VolfeVolfe Quaint Serenity (XBL) Joined: Posts: 160
    :eek: You are not pressing the buttons for zipline at the same time, is all.
    Get those inputs tighter and you should be seeing success in no time.
    But there's an easy was around that for this case, which is to just try to kara :atk:~:s: if you're having problems instead of trying to press the two buttons simultaneously.

    Thanks to you both gotten it a little more consistent with this information, I was Kara-ing it with special just gotta stop rolling my finger up and press down on both.
    Repping that Bionic arm since day1
    UMvC3: Iron Fist/Spencer/Hawk-eye "Bionic Fist"
    SSF4: Dudley/Cody/Oni "moar frametraps"
    BBCS2: Makoto, Tsubaki, Noel
  • AdelheidAdelheid Perfectly Balanced Joined: Posts: 1,314
    :eek: Oh, I agree with you, but the way I look at it, if you aim for pressing the buttons simultaneously, you can err toward the kara (perhaps without even knowing it) and get the desired action regardless.

    If you aim for the kara, you can err further away from it and eventually not get the desired action.

    It sounds really prudish, but one of the things I try to focus on when dealing with my generally mediocre execution is cleaning up my inputs and I actually came across this same problem some time ago and actually tried your very solution. I find that aiming for the goal you can't particularly reach immediately (in terms of execution) helps more in the long run. I find this to be especially true when human error is tossed in the mix, as it will almost always be there unless you're really good or spend lots of time practicing.

    So in short, we're both right and Spencer is awesome.

    I mean, I don't really care. This isn't an issue I have. But hey
  • JustRobertJustRobert Joined: Posts: 25
    Legend
    :d::l: :d::m: :h: :s: sj j.:m: j.:m: j.:h: j.:df::s:+:atk:, j.:s: |> neutral jump to full height j.:qcf::m:, j.:df::s:+:atk: :s: |> :h: :s: sj j.:m: j.:m: j.:h:j.:df::s:+:atk:, j.:s:, sj j.:qcf::h:

    For the life of me i can not hit, :s: standing :h: :s: after :df::s:+:atk: in this combo mentioned.
    PSN: JustRobert
    XBL: JustRob3ert
  • CyphenCyphen a lover AND a fighter Joined: Posts: 35
    Technically, you can cancel the Swing Wire with an attack just before the full animation of Spencer zip-lining along finishes, so you may want to try hitting that :s: a little earlier than you think you should. As for the standing :h::s: follow-up, make sure you hit them as soon as you land, not just before you land. Of course, you can just omit that part of the combo, and simply mash :s: like a madman during the down-forward Swing Wire (this served me well back in vanilla MvC3...)
  • Kreative MenteKreative Mente GamerTag: Kreative Mente Joined: Posts: 590
    So I came up with a cool combo using Starks Shockwave rebounce tech. Going to upload a video of it later today.

    Deals a Mil Damage Solo in the Corner.
    Mika/Ibuki (One Day) - Orchid/Everyone Else - Nova/Spencer/Doom
    Youtube: cg219 | Follow Me @KreativeMente
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