Alien Covenant / Prometheus / Aliens / AvP / Discussion Thread

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  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 21,575
    edited April 21
    Yea this is the side effect of trying to expand on something that had a simple premise and message. By trying to flesh it out you add a bunch of shit that was never meant to be there in the first place. This isn't a case of filling in holes in a mythology, but plugging holes that don't actually exist. Kinda why I never gave a fuck about the Space Jockey. It was never important.

    But Aliens hasn't been about rape in a long time so I guess the theme isn't really relevant anymore anyway. It's not really in Prometheus at all for example.
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  • Spirit JuiceSpirit Juice 「HATES EVERYTHING」 Joined: Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 21
    it was (relatively) simple before all the sequels. facehuggers impregnate males of a species. males give birth to xenomorphs. xenomorphs create the eggs that hold facehuggers.

    original Alien was a male rape allegory.

    They do not only impregnate males. Facehuggers target any viable host, regardless of sex. Ripley had a Xenomorph inside of her in 3. A colonist in Aliens was shown having a chestburster come out of her. A face hugger also tried to hug Ripley and Newt in Aliens when Burk set one loose while they were sleeping.
  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 21,575
    edited April 21
    Right, but in the original movie the screen writers objective was to make male viewers uncomfortable by raping and impregnating men and that is what Shaft Agent is referring to. It was very purposeful choice by the screen writer and Ridley Scott to have the men be the ones getting violated and not the women.

    Shaft very specifically refers to the first movie being "Simple before all the sequels."
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  • Shaft AgentShaft Agent https://discord.gg/F4ZmxDu Joined: Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 21
    it was (relatively) simple before all the sequels. facehuggers impregnate males of a species. males give birth to xenomorphs. xenomorphs create the eggs that hold facehuggers.

    original Alien was a male rape allegory.

    They do not only impregnate males. Facehuggers target any viable host, regardless of sex. Ripley had a Xenomorph inside of her in 3. A colonist in Aliens was shown having a chestburster come out of her. A face hugger also tried to hug Ripley and Newt in Aliens when Burk set one loose while they were sleeping.

    original Alien was a male rape allegory.
    only males were owned in Alien
    Forget trying to pass for normal. Follow your geekdom. Embrace nerditude. In the immortal words of Lafcadio Hearn, a geek of incredible obscurity whose work is still in print after a hundred years, “Woo the muse of the odd.” You may be a geek. You may have geek written all over you. You should aim to be one geek they’ll never forget. Don’t aim to be civilized. Don’t hope that straight people will keep you on as some sort of pet. To hell with them. You should fully realize what society has made of you and take a terrible revenge. Get weird. Get way weird. Get dangerously weird. Get sophisticatedly, thoroughly weird, and don’t do it halfway. Put every ounce of horsepower you have behind it. Don’t become a well-rounded person. Well-rounded people are smooth and dull. Become a thoroughly spiky person. Grow spikes from every angle. Stick in their throats like a pufferfish. -Bruce Sterling
  • Spirit JuiceSpirit Juice 「HATES EVERYTHING」 Joined: Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    True, but that doesn't mean males are only targeted. Within the context of the story and universe, the first victim was coincidentally a male.
  • Shaft AgentShaft Agent https://discord.gg/F4ZmxDu Joined: Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    True, but that doesn't mean males are only targeted. Within the context of the story and universe, the first victim was coincidentally a male.
    you're right for xeno attacks, but i'm not 100% sure it was a coincidence a male was the 1st. they definitely imply that xenos (at least the drones) have male affinity. even in the sequel James Cameron even went out of his way to give info on Lambert being MtF trans.

    niPp3pD.jpg

    i'll need to watch it again, but i can't remember a single woman that was killed in Aliens by a drone xeno.
    Forget trying to pass for normal. Follow your geekdom. Embrace nerditude. In the immortal words of Lafcadio Hearn, a geek of incredible obscurity whose work is still in print after a hundred years, “Woo the muse of the odd.” You may be a geek. You may have geek written all over you. You should aim to be one geek they’ll never forget. Don’t aim to be civilized. Don’t hope that straight people will keep you on as some sort of pet. To hell with them. You should fully realize what society has made of you and take a terrible revenge. Get weird. Get way weird. Get dangerously weird. Get sophisticatedly, thoroughly weird, and don’t do it halfway. Put every ounce of horsepower you have behind it. Don’t become a well-rounded person. Well-rounded people are smooth and dull. Become a thoroughly spiky person. Grow spikes from every angle. Stick in their throats like a pufferfish. -Bruce Sterling
  • jopamojopamo Stuck in Silly-con Valley Joined: Posts: 1,174
    edited April 21
    Not only guys got owned. Lambert got owned too (though off-screen). She was a woman, one of only two on-board. We know what happened to the other one :wink:

    ...and by the look of where that tail was headin'...it seems like Lambert got some "back door" action on her way out.

    @1:22
  • Shaft AgentShaft Agent https://discord.gg/F4ZmxDu Joined: Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    read that first sentence on the picture above your post.
    Forget trying to pass for normal. Follow your geekdom. Embrace nerditude. In the immortal words of Lafcadio Hearn, a geek of incredible obscurity whose work is still in print after a hundred years, “Woo the muse of the odd.” You may be a geek. You may have geek written all over you. You should aim to be one geek they’ll never forget. Don’t aim to be civilized. Don’t hope that straight people will keep you on as some sort of pet. To hell with them. You should fully realize what society has made of you and take a terrible revenge. Get weird. Get way weird. Get dangerously weird. Get sophisticatedly, thoroughly weird, and don’t do it halfway. Put every ounce of horsepower you have behind it. Don’t become a well-rounded person. Well-rounded people are smooth and dull. Become a thoroughly spiky person. Grow spikes from every angle. Stick in their throats like a pufferfish. -Bruce Sterling
  • jopamojopamo Stuck in Silly-con Valley Joined: Posts: 1,174
    edited April 21
    [EDIT] wait.. holy shit. Lady was (formerly) a dude?!

    Mind blown. Pays to read the fine print.

    [EDIT] Or maybe she was Arcturian. Then it doesn't matter.
  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,281
    edited April 21
    SZ0hTrWl.jpg

    I guess we now know what David did to the Space Jockey's planet.

    iO0wngsl.jpg

    ig4lytj438qg9cklnqra.gif

  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 23



    New TV spot

    And yes the original Alien was basically a rapist in space before Cameron turned them into Starship Trooper bugs. The whole species is riddled with sexual symbolism thanks in large part to Giger's influence. Ridley is reclaiming the Alien from Cameron's ENTERTAINING albeit bullshit interpretation. I love the Alien Queen though. But as we see in the new trilogy and even Alien Resurrection, the species are not limited to one reproductive cycle.

    We see them reproduce in many ways, and by that I mean initiate their core lifecycle which is eggs > hugger > Adult. In the case of Shaw in prometheus, she was functionally an egg that gave birth to the hugger. So really, they need an incubator for the hugger, followed by an incubator for the adult. The Newborn in Resurrection was essentially the liberation of the species from the limitations presented by the need for hosts, an evolutionary peak for the species.

  • jopamojopamo Stuck in Silly-con Valley Joined: Posts: 1,174
    edited April 25
    Daemos wrote: »
    Ridley is reclaiming the Alien from Cameron's ENTERTAINING albeit bullshit interpretation.

    Bullshit interpretation? Uh...no. A fucking Tim Burton fan could call Christopher Nolan's Batman films an ENTERTAINING albeit bullshit interpretation. IMO, they'd be wrong.

    Cameron's interpretation was just a different, yet a completely competent standout on its own. Aside from being an unabashed action film, it's arguably my favorite of the series. Sadly, Fincher, Jeunet and Scott himself (a la Prometheus) have never re-sparked that fire from the first two films.
  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    edited April 25
    In your opinion they didn't sparked the fire that is.
    I love Alien3 and Prometheus and think they are spiritually closer to the original than anything else. Aliens is an incredible film and arguably one of the best sequels ever conceived. But it did not due the Alien character favors.

    The Alien were a perfect organism in 1, and the Dragon in 3 (biblical satan awaiting the birth of the antichrist). In Prometheus they were divine and revered spiritually.

    In Aliens, they were bugs saved only by the majesty of the Queen.

    You're talking about how brilliant Aliens was which no one is arguing with. I am talking about Cameron's interpretation of the Alien species which was a far cry from the calculated and sinister stalker from the first film.
  • jopamojopamo Stuck in Silly-con Valley Joined: Posts: 1,174
    edited April 25
    Nope, I was just refuting a single word here: "bullshit."

    Nothing was bullshit, it was merely different. Everything else you've posted I pretty much agree with.

    Assembly Cut of 3 is really worthwhile. Too bad Fox didn't let Fincher do his thang. Resurrection though?...eh...the basketball scene was fun. Prometheus was very good, though the continual dumb shit said and done by "the world's best" scientists on a trillion dollar mission annoyed the shit out of me. I couldn't take it seriously.
  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Resurrection is acceptable, not as bad as what people made it out to be as usual. I enjoyed the OST, the cinematography especially the underwater scene was excellent. But I consider it closer to an offshoot/spin-off than part of the original trilogy. I recall Weaver saying that this is what attracted her to the film to begin with, that she wasn't going to play Ripley, rather she was a new character Ripley 8.
  • jopamojopamo Stuck in Silly-con Valley Joined: Posts: 1,174
    edited April 25
    For which she did a great job. The conversing, self-sacrificing Xenomorphs, wonky gameshow-host-like general, and Winona lost that shit for me though. At least it had Ron Perlman and Brad Dourif.
  • truendymiontruendymion Beer Me! Joined: Posts: 2,226
    edited April 26
    You guys are crazy! In terms of quality it goes like this:
    • Alien
    • Aliens
    • Alien: Resurrection
    • Alien 3
    • Prometheus

    I was very tempted to put AvP on the list above Prometheus lol
    Post edited by truendymion on
  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I blame Whedon completely completely for Resurrection. He tried to make an Alien Comic into part of the original saga which is retarded. That bullshit should be limited to the EU like the craptastic AvP movies.

    The reason they cloned Ripley was because they had blood samples of Ripley from Alien 3 (there is a scene of this) and there was no other record of known hosts in those 200 years. Since the Aliens actually grow out of the host much like an organ or an embryo, and actually assimilates the host's DNA - it was a given that the reverse would be true, that the exchange of DNA goes both ways and the host becomes part Alien too in order to grow the alien to begin. Movies like Prometheus cement this idea further which was the intent of Ridley since the beginning. It's just we have never seen up until Ripley 8 a host that survives the Alien gestation.

    Shaw is another human that survived the Alien gestation, and her DNA has likely been forever altered by the Xenomorphs even after giving birth.


    Anyway, that guy in the video is almost as annoying is the worst parts of Resurrection.
  • jopamojopamo Stuck in Silly-con Valley Joined: Posts: 1,174
    edited April 26
    Daemos wrote: »
    Anyway, that guy in the video is almost as annoying is the worst parts of Resurrection.

    Glad to hear that you find him annoying. That said, here are links to the rest of his Alien film reviews. Have fun NOT-clicking on them :wink:

    Alien
    Aliens
    Alien 3
    Prometheus

    I was very tempted to put AvP on the list above Prometheus lol

    Putting EITHER AvP ANYWHERE on this list is an automatic Get Rekt. Good thing for you that you abstained :cookie:
  • DaemosDaemos Queen Bitch of the Universe Joined: Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    The only Alien youtube film review worth watching



  • locoghoullocoghoul Fuck Chun Joined: Posts: 3,910
    to be fair AvP 2 is a good B movie. Like a nice 80s B action movie. AvP 1 is almost a Michael Bay movie (black girl outrunning a queen Alien smfh)
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  • Dangerous JDangerous J Clinicals now!! Joined: Posts: 9,918 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    po pimpus wrote: »
    locoghoul wrote: »
    to be fair AvP 2 is a good B movie. Like a nice 80s B action movie. AvP 1 is almost a Michael Bay movie (black girl outrunning a queen Alien smfh)

    It's a shame the first AvP is so shit... It set black people back as action movie leads for another twenty years.

    Hmm
    But didn't AVP 2 have a black kid who couldn't swim getting killed in a swimming pool?
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  • FlameAngelZFlameAngelZ I'm gonna fuck you up! Joined: Posts: 965
    AvP is a fucking retarded movie... and the subjects keeps coming back in this thread. So much wasted potential. I didn't even think it was possible to fuck up AvP, but they managed it.
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  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 21,575
    edited April 26
    Prometheus and Resurrection are fucking awful and you should feel awful for liking them. Prometheus is some of Ridley Scott's worst work.
    Post edited by crotchpuncha on
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
  • chadouken!chadouken! less < more Joined: Posts: 5,068
    What's frustrating about Prometheus is that the first half is amazing, but then it goes to shit when everyone turns into a fucking idiot. That movie had so much potential to be good.
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  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,281
    edited April 27


    THEY'RE SHOWING THE START OF ALIEN COVENANT PROLOGUE ON THE 20th Century Fox YOUTUBE LIVE FEED RIGHT NOW... CLICK THE VIDEO ABOVE beore it ends.
    Post edited by Sexperienced. on
  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,281
    edited April 27
    Here's the Alien Covenant prologue... that was a quick upload.

    Post edited by Sexperienced. on
  • chadouken!chadouken! less < more Joined: Posts: 5,068
    Elizabeth Shaw
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  • Spirit JuiceSpirit Juice 「HATES EVERYTHING」 Joined: Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Huh. I didn't think they were really going to touch on the events of Prometheus at all, but it seems like they have. Gives me hope what was set up in Prometheus will be expanded upon beyond this, and Covenant isn't just another Alien film.
  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,281
    edited April 26
    How could they not touch on the events that occurred in Prometheus, I think that's impossible considering its a direct sequal. We already knew that David was going to be in this film.
    Ridley Scott was upset and surprised that a lot of people didn't like Prometheus. He said his mistake was not making it scary enough, so Covenant is pretty much an apology for Prometheus. In his own words he said Covenant will scare the shit out of people.
    Post edited by Sexperienced. on
  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,281
    "Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair."
  • Spirit JuiceSpirit Juice 「HATES EVERYTHING」 Joined: Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    From the trailers it looked like they were just going to focus on the Alien aspect of the movie, rather than expand on what was established in Prometheus. Yeah I know you can't judge an entire movie by the trailer, but there wasn't a lot of info out there at the time. I'm eager to see how the movie plays out.
  • locoghoullocoghoul Fuck Chun Joined: Posts: 3,910
    I'm def not clicking those links, I want to be surprised. Nice to see Shaw on the movie though
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  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 21,575
    Ridley Scott was upset and surprised that a lot of people didn't like Prometheus. He said his mistake was not making it scary enough, so Covenant is pretty much an apology for Prometheus. In his own words he said Covenant will scare the shit out of people.
    So he didn't listen to pretty much anyone who talked about the movie then?

    Great.
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
  • locoghoullocoghoul Fuck Chun Joined: Posts: 3,910
    locoghoul wrote: »
    I'm def not clicking those links, I want to be surprised. Nice to see Shaw on the movie though

    fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

    never fucking mind, I watched it and now I hate myself. Holy fuck David

    there better be an explanation for this
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  • jopamojopamo Stuck in Silly-con Valley Joined: Posts: 1,174
    Looks like David wants to unmake the makers, of his makers... what a mind fuck.

    What a douche.
  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,281
    I don't understand how the directors cut of Aliens 3 can make that film watchable, or even remotely as good as the first two films. To me that would mean at least 70% of the scenes in the original were not in the directors cut. I haven't seen Aliens 3 in 15 years so my opinions might change, but I doubt it.
  • Sexperienced.Sexperienced. kdh Joined: Posts: 5,281
    Ridley Scott was upset and surprised that a lot of people didn't like Prometheus. He said his mistake was not making it scary enough, so Covenant is pretty much an apology for Prometheus. In his own words he said Covenant will scare the shit out of people.
    So he didn't listen to pretty much anyone who talked about the movie then?

    Great.

    So you think people generally loved the film? That's not how it was received in the UK. He wanted to take a more philosophical approach to the storyline and he intentionally toned down the violence to make the film accessible to a wider audience which didn't help.