"One For J.J.!!!" Ultimate Spidey Strategy Thread

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  • AirborneAirborne The Mad Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,090
    *Looks at username above*... HOW ARE PEOPLE GETTING THESE NAMES SO EASILY?!!?
    Robo-mitsu: Wish I could ride a robo-tiger to work.
    Evil_Rahsaan: Airborne ur a mad scientist.
    XxDiana_PrinceXx: 6 years old shouldnt be playing sf4 its not suited for her, sorry!!! SSF4 is rated T for 13 and above. :nono:
  • Peter ParkerPeter Parker "With Great Power, comes a Great Beatdown!" Joined: Posts: 89
    *Looks at username above*... HOW ARE PEOPLE GETTING THESE NAMES SO EASILY?!!?
    HAHA! Lol i originally intended to write only Parker as a username, cuz it's been my Kaillera name for some time, but it didn't work. Tried Peter Parker instead and it worked! I was surprised no one took it yet :/
    Fightcade: Parker
    Fighter ID: Trusade
    PSN: Trusade
    Live: Quentril
    Steam: Kajude

  • AirborneAirborne The Mad Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,090
    Well, I feel like we're in a paradox now because someone else has the username Spider-Man here!!! XDDDD
    Robo-mitsu: Wish I could ride a robo-tiger to work.
    Evil_Rahsaan: Airborne ur a mad scientist.
    XxDiana_PrinceXx: 6 years old shouldnt be playing sf4 its not suited for her, sorry!!! SSF4 is rated T for 13 and above. :nono:
  • Peter ParkerPeter Parker "With Great Power, comes a Great Beatdown!" Joined: Posts: 89
    HAHA! What are you talking about? I just take pictures here :D
    Fightcade: Parker
    Fighter ID: Trusade
    PSN: Trusade
    Live: Quentril
    Steam: Kajude

  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    This one needs to be in the match up thread. This one is for general strategies to make spidey better


    Zro was here...
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • Ben2GenBen2Gen Joined: Posts: 45
    This one needs to be in the match up thread. This one is for general strategies to make spidey better


    Zro was here...

    sorry
  • CereiCerei One day at a time. Joined: Posts: 334
    I want to learn about something that I seldom ever see being discussed: block strings.

    How do I create/perform a good block string? What are some block strings you people use for Spider-Man? Specifically, what is a block string? :rofl: I have the general idea, but a definition from someone else would be nice. Do block strings have to end on a move that's positive or be covered by an assist for it to be effective? Questions, Questions.
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  • AirborneAirborne The Mad Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,090
    That is pretty much what you need to know about a blockstring. However, you basically want to have high/low or left/right mixups incorporated into your blockstrings, such that you can choose to mix them up with different possible methods throughout, but you want to try and remain as safe as possible whilst doing so. I actually had an issue with knowing when to call assists during blockstrings and in other situations, so when I asked Kajoq, he simply replied with "call the assist when you think they're going to pushblock." This appears to be the best time to call an assist because it prevents the opponent from simply reseting positions and allows you to continue your pressure.

    When conceiving the general part of your go-to blockstring, excluding the assist, you generally want to just perform a crouching magic series and finish it off with something like :l: Web Swing, :l: Spider Sting~:h:, or Web Zip. All of these are safe on block when they make contact, and some incorporate a transition from low hits to high-hits. Now, what makes these blockstrings unsafe is when your opponent manages to either push block you at a time you don't expect, or when the pop X-Factor, but let's just talk about dealing with push blocking for now.

    Alright, when making the ideal block/pressure string, I want you to think about it like trying to turn left onto a main road while at a stop sign. Say it's rush hour, and there's a metric fuckton of cars coming from both the left and the right. You primarily focus on looking to your left because those cars will be the ones most closest to you. Now let's say you finally see a gap that you can cut through in terms of the cars coming from the left, but you then look to your right. SON OF A BITCH!! There's a car ruining your perfect time to turn coming from the right side now!!! Now you gotta wait for another spot because there's no real life X-Factor... unless you wanna raise your insurance rates... or go to jail.

    Ok, now let's translate this back into Marvel: the cars coming from the left are Spider-man's blockstring, the cars coming from the right are assists, and the car attempting to turn is the opponent. YOU DON'T WANT THE OPPONENT TO TURN. YOU WANT THAT MOTHER FUCKER TO CRASH AND BURNNNNNN. The opponent "trying to find the right spot to turn" is the opponent trying to find a hole in your blockstring, be it knowing your unsafe moves on block or attempting to pushblock you at the right time. Now, whenever you know there's an inevitably open spot between your cars coming from the left, you want a car coming from the right. By the time your opponent gets out of this ordeal, the pool boy should be long gone after some nice intercourse with the opponent's wife.

    Now, in between these infinite strings of cars coming from the left and right, we want to incorporate the abnormal cars; these cars will be slower than normal, accelerating at a positive rate, and some will be those assholes that will turn before getting to you without turning on their turn signal. These will be your high/low mixups, left/right mixups, and frame traps. I'll probably make another post about these, but that will be for another time, choose anyone needs that second post.

    I've been trying to cut down on my language around here, but I was trying to make this post as colorful as possible with my vivid painting of the mind. :)
    Robo-mitsu: Wish I could ride a robo-tiger to work.
    Evil_Rahsaan: Airborne ur a mad scientist.
    XxDiana_PrinceXx: 6 years old shouldnt be playing sf4 its not suited for her, sorry!!! SSF4 is rated T for 13 and above. :nono:
  • CereiCerei One day at a time. Joined: Posts: 334
    Ah man. I'm going to have reread that again when I have more time. This car thing completely went over my head. :sweat:
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  • phantasyphantasy Smash Journeyman Joined: Posts: 8,558
    block string is a series of moves that keep an opponent in block stun

    advancing guard pushes the opponent point character away, so people will use this when they are defending. so when you are pushed away, you want to have an assist keeping them in block while you have to spend time to get back close.

    "watch your block strings" - something to keep in mind when x factor is available to your opponent - because they can cancel block stun with it.
    youtube mvci/sfv/etc. twitter @delbuster
  • CereiCerei One day at a time. Joined: Posts: 334
    So a good block sting is pretty much magic series xx :l: web swing, j.:h:, j.:s:, repeat? And if I get pushblocked then call an assist and dash in to continue the pressure.
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  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    Im glad this thread is evolving without my push :wgrin: my life is going to get a lot more hectic so I may not be as available as I have been coming soon. Please believe I still will try to get here though.

    Anyways in my eyes a good block string will pressure the opponent while still leaving you options to go into your combos without much change. They exist for the purpose of stressing your opponent while seeing how well their defense is and then capitalizing on an opening. They can consist of hit confirms, specials, assist, throws, and any other tool your character can provide to force the opponent to react how you want them to. You should NOT use readable patterns. I know trying to hit confirm can be difficult at times but this can lead to dial a combos, and let's be real, magic series into anything is just asking to be pushblocked or punished. More importantly than that though you want to know the character you are up against and what tools they have on defense that way you can bait for it. Finally, you want to be able to defend your blockstrings. Pushblocks can hurt Spidey when you aren't great at reacting so you want to layer yourself up at random times that you believe a pushblock is coming. This protects Spidey, keeps the opponent locked down, and/or can make it hard for them to pushblock the correct attack, and best of all if you read a pushblock correctly and didnt do anything their pushblock turns into an attack opening them up the assist.

    With all that being said. Zip cancels and good assist calls make Spiderman a bitch to get off but you also have to know how to cover up his weak spots inbetween moves. Personally I find IOH's, web balls, :l: spider sting/bite, s:l: and c:l: to be some of his best tools in block strings. His ability to attack multiple times overhead in various patterns and how he can zip cancel an air move into j:l:, which can whiff, into an low is remarkable. Definitely something to look into since he thrives in the corner.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • AirborneAirborne The Mad Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,090
    Haha, it's funny because ever since my friends and I started playing Marvel, we see traffic as an indefinite blockstring. XDDD
    Robo-mitsu: Wish I could ride a robo-tiger to work.
    Evil_Rahsaan: Airborne ur a mad scientist.
    XxDiana_PrinceXx: 6 years old shouldnt be playing sf4 its not suited for her, sorry!!! SSF4 is rated T for 13 and above. :nono:
  • CereiCerei One day at a time. Joined: Posts: 334
    Speaking of instant overheads, I saw a video of Web Swing being able to IOH if you TK it. Not only did it look hard to begin with, but I have no idea how to TK a DP motion. Do any of you use this?
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  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    If your execution is fast this is very useful for situations you dash in and the opponent is blocking low then you surprise them. Also in situations when you have yourself covered with an assist. I mix it up with those, and zip web swings as well.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • CereiCerei One day at a time. Joined: Posts: 334
    If your execution is fast this is very useful for situations you dash in and the opponent is blocking low then you surprise them. Also in situations when you have yourself covered with an assist. I mix it up with those, and zip web swings as well.
    How do you TK a DP motion?
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  • AirborneAirborne The Mad Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,090
    :b: :d: :db: :ub: is what you want to go for. You have to be a little patient with the timing for the TK'd Web Swing because it feels a lot easier to rush the button input than in most other TK'd specials, causing you to get the ol' grounded, non-overhead Web Swing.
    Robo-mitsu: Wish I could ride a robo-tiger to work.
    Evil_Rahsaan: Airborne ur a mad scientist.
    XxDiana_PrinceXx: 6 years old shouldnt be playing sf4 its not suited for her, sorry!!! SSF4 is rated T for 13 and above. :nono:
  • INVIZOBLEINVIZOBLE Joined: Posts: 264
    is it possible to UWT a incoming character?
    youtube.com/invizoble
  • AirborneAirborne The Mad Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,090
    I believe they have to be pushing buttons, just like how that's the only way to air throw an incoming character.
    Robo-mitsu: Wish I could ride a robo-tiger to work.
    Evil_Rahsaan: Airborne ur a mad scientist.
    XxDiana_PrinceXx: 6 years old shouldnt be playing sf4 its not suited for her, sorry!!! SSF4 is rated T for 13 and above. :nono:
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    or make them block then hit it before they land
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • QiwisKiwiQiwisKiwi Joined: Posts: 166
    or make them block then hit it before they land
    I just thought about using Nova's Aegis Reflector on an incoming character, they block, Spidey uses UWT. Free 300k damage.
    w000t.
    The man with many Task partnered up with the Crimson Comedian all backed up with the Spinning feets of purple fury.
  • AirborneAirborne The Mad Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,090
    I just thought about using Nova's Aegis Reflector on an incoming character, they block, Spidey uses UWT. Free 300k damage.
    w000t.
    That may work, but I heavily prefer having Centurion Rush over Gravimetric Pulse because Centurion Rush has proven to me to be far more versatile of an assist.
    Robo-mitsu: Wish I could ride a robo-tiger to work.
    Evil_Rahsaan: Airborne ur a mad scientist.
    XxDiana_PrinceXx: 6 years old shouldnt be playing sf4 its not suited for her, sorry!!! SSF4 is rated T for 13 and above. :nono:
  • CereiCerei One day at a time. Joined: Posts: 334
    Y'know I never though of UWT on incoming. Would :m: web throw (block) xx UWT work?
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  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    No you can't cancel it in time. Finding a setup is hard for two reasons:

    They drop to the ground a lot faster after block, so you would have to time the UWT to come out the first active frame they start falling.
    Second, the easiest way out of that is to just take the hit since it would be a dedicated setup.

    Actually what we need to do is, instead of wasting meter on entry for something that won't work we need to find hard to escape setups on entry for us to guard break into throw for the reset opp

    For example, using my team of Spidey/Storm/Iron Man, without an assist Spidey can do two j:l:'s pause then throw the opponent jump back up and zip into j:h:. From there he can build a meter during his combo depending on what you use. I personally would use web throw quickly because I get more damage in the corner thanks to Iron Man. Even at one bar starting, I can go into a corner combo get my two web throws off Iron Man then dash in with two bars now and still THC into spider sting/bite putting me over 900K off the guard break.

    This doesn't apply to every team obviously but if I have two meters and I feel the opponent has a strong anchor that's also doubling as a good assist I could snap into that person go for the guard break then go for broke either killing the character or putting them in a very bad position.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • CereiCerei One day at a time. Joined: Posts: 334
    No you can't cancel it in time. Finding a setup is hard for two reasons:

    They drop to the ground a lot faster after block, so you would have to time the UWT to come out the first active frame they start falling.
    Second, the easiest way out of that is to just take the hit since it would be a dedicated setup.

    Actually what we need to do is, instead of wasting meter on entry for something that won't work we need to find hard to escape setups on entry for us to guard break into throw for the reset opp

    For example, using my team of Spidey/Storm/Iron Man, without an assist Spidey can do two j:l:'s pause then throw the opponent jump back up and zip into j:h:. From there he can build a meter during his combo depending on what you use. I personally would use web throw quickly because I get more damage in the corner thanks to Iron Man. Even at one bar starting, I can go into a corner combo get my two web throws off Iron Man then dash in with two bars now and still THC into spider sting/bite putting me over 900K off the guard break.

    This doesn't apply to every team obviously but if I have two meters and I feel the opponent has a strong anchor that's also doubling as a good assist I could snap into that person go for the guard break then go for broke either killing the character or putting them in a very bad position.
    What do you do if the person isn't guarding and the j. :l:x2 connects?
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  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    React and either turn it into a combo or prepare yourself for a mixup. It's a bad situation for them, not as bad as let's say Wesker, but bad all the same.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • INVIZOBLEINVIZOBLE Joined: Posts: 264
    UWT set up with my team.
    Spiderman/Viper/Ironman

    If i have Viper on point i can do a combo seismo otg into emergency combination then watch how they tech then UWT or i can double seismo into burst time then UWT. If i got Spiderman on point i can do the web ball with Vipers otg assist UWT but i dont go for it much or i do a double web swing combo then web zip otg into Ironmans Unibeam UWT .
    youtube.com/invizoble
  • JohypnolJohypnol Freeter Parker Joined: Posts: 228
    was reading the ultimate tier discussion thread (guys don't go in there seriously) and someone brought up something that had nothing to do with ex seismo being the best move in the game or zero being better than wesker. it was about who has the fastest overhead in the game.

    whenever i hit someone with spider bite as an overhead i get the feeling they didn't actually know it's an overhead. and then i tell them and they tell me something like "oh yeah I know it's just really fast". so I want to know, how fast is it?

    i only have the vanilla bible (and I'm assuming this didn't change) which says :l: spider sting has 7 frames startup, and bite has 3. but I know it's not a 10 frame overhead because spider sting isn't cancelable on the first frame...or wait I don't actually know

    tl;dr: I want to know the first cancelable frame of spider sting so I know how fast spider bite is as an overhead
  • RaohRaoh AU Spider Joined: Posts: 968
    Hmmm, checked the new one and it only mentions the :h: version. Bite = Input :h: between frames 17~23 of :h: sting.
    Spider-Man - Combos and Tech
    PSN: KingRaou - Spider-Man/Hawkeye<>Dr.Doom
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    That's an interesting topic. I'm not even sure who would be in the lineup for such a topic.


    Zro was here...
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • linainverselinainverse Joined: Posts: 197
    what i like to do is l. web ball in the air, webzip, h.weball you can also do this similar on the ground and if the web ball gets them you can dash and do a combo
    also if u land an air l. web ball you can webzip to either s. or j.h and do whatever combo from there, i think its pretty good for spacing and timing isnt that hard

    what i like about h.weball is that it pushes you a little up .
  • AirborneAirborne The Mad Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,090
    Fastest standing overhead or fastest instant overhead? Technically ours would be the fastest from a standing position (Spider Bite on the 17th frame. I believe the guide has a typo because I'm pretty sure the Spider Bite window is the same for all Spider Stings, it's just that they feel different because the time the move actually come out is different. ex: :l: Spider Sting feels like the window is later than :m: or :h:, but it comes out on frame 7, meaning you have to wait longer after the hit.). However, Spider Sting is technically a 2-hit move, meaning it's possible to pushblock to avoid the overhead at all times (although it's harder to react to than any other standing overhead).

    The fastest standing overhead other wise is a tie between Iron Fist's Crescent Heel, Akuma's :f:+:m:, and Ryu's Collarbone Breaker while in Hadou Kakusei mode, all of which have 21 frames of startup. Second would be Phoenix's :f:+:m: and Viper's Elbow at 22 frames.

    If you include instant overheads, then that's just a huge mess altogether. @___@
    Robo-mitsu: Wish I could ride a robo-tiger to work.
    Evil_Rahsaan: Airborne ur a mad scientist.
    XxDiana_PrinceXx: 6 years old shouldnt be playing sf4 its not suited for her, sorry!!! SSF4 is rated T for 13 and above. :nono:
  • JohypnolJohypnol Freeter Parker Joined: Posts: 228
    the list was mostly tri jump characters who could do an addf j.:l: within 10 frames or so. storm was up there because her j.:l: is 4 frames. she was also up there on another list with RR because of instant overheads with floats.

    also airborne that standing overhead list puts things into perspective thank you. spencer's overhead is another one that's 22 frames and I never block that so I can see why spider bite gives people trouble.
  • RaohRaoh AU Spider Joined: Posts: 968
    I think the fastest standing overhead would be Joe's at just 13 frames; it's just too short. Makes for a sure 50/50 after God Hand though.
    Spider-Man - Combos and Tech
    PSN: KingRaou - Spider-Man/Hawkeye<>Dr.Doom
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    Joe I can see everyone else is bleh. Tri jump characters wouldn't count unless they changed what they were specifically referring to tri jump IOH's
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • otoriotori RTSD Joined: Posts: 6,184
    So, in the tier thread people are freaking out that Zero can cross counter cancel into Sougenmu and pretty much kill you for ever putting the other guy on blockstun. I was messing with Spidey doing it as well, since Spider Sting also has some invincibility as a cross counter, and it happens that, while you can't follow up for the ground bounce unfortunately, you can zip cancel both after and before the actual uppercut, when he's jumping in on screen.
    You probably won't be able to ToD the other guy like Zero can, but it costs one less meter and if you end with web throw you can hard tag your other guy back. It can even work with his web ball assist, because even though it has no invincibility Spidey spawns a bit further back, out of range of most normals.
    I prefer to run Spidey on point, but I wonder if this is worth it at all? Any thoughts?
  • AirborneAirborne The Mad Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,090
    It's not worth the meter or the assist. Spidey can't dish out the same kind of damage that Zero can. The dude can kill someone meterless.
    Robo-mitsu: Wish I could ride a robo-tiger to work.
    Evil_Rahsaan: Airborne ur a mad scientist.
    XxDiana_PrinceXx: 6 years old shouldnt be playing sf4 its not suited for her, sorry!!! SSF4 is rated T for 13 and above. :nono:
  • CereiCerei One day at a time. Joined: Posts: 334
    Yea, actually I had a similar question/point. There's a whole discussion just a few posts above you.
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  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,076
    I was talking to Airborne about this and figured it would be quite useful when approaching an incoming opponent after snapping or killing one character.

    You see a lot of people trying to web throw which is cool he can get damage off of that but he's not in they ass anymore. I've been having huge success doing this following set up then you choose combo from there.

    j:h: j:s: xx :l: web swing j:m: j:m: j:s:...

    Now I've been messing around with it quite a lot today but with my team this is what I came up with...

    j:h: j:s: xx :l: web swing j:m: j:m: j:s: land c:m: s:h: xx :m: web throw dash forward air dash web zip j:s: s:m: s:h: xx:h: spider sting/bite c:h: + Doom :s: sj:m: sj:m: sj:h: sj:s: land dash forward :s: xx :h: web throw wave dash over THC :l: spider sting/bite.

    I also came up with another one that moves around the spider sting but I got this one on accident so didn't get to finish it properly. Do everything up to the c:m: s:h: xx :m: web throw but then wave dash to the other side, probably don't have to but this is what happened, THC :l: spider sting/bite c:h: :s:...

    I don't know what else can go after that. I'm assuming a magic series but I wasn't expecting it :lol: I wonder if you can call assist after a THC hmmm. Oh well it has been a decent set up for me. It's similar to how Wesker keeps attacking people on their way in and if they try to push block you can do web swing xx web zip. If you don't catch them and they drop to the ground before you they can walk forward and put you in the corner but you can call an assist, I called Storm, then zip back out before you finish web swing and you'll be back on the grind. This also caught a lot of people.

    Obviously these will all vary from team to team but as far as trying to keep pressure on the opponent this setup has been quite successful for me today in ranked matches. I go with the j:h: first because it has reach then the j:s: because it knocks downward some to allow everything else to keep them at a great height for juggling. I should note this was all performed in the corner but midscreen it still worked but I had to use spider sting/bite in place of the web throw. Also this can still be finished solo for roughly 650ish or so if I remember right. Once you start layering up assist it gets stronger of course.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • AirborneAirborne The Mad Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,090
    I've just been doing what works at the moment and that would be good ol' Web Throw. Now I had been working with air to air combos upon entrance so that I could grow up from the simple shit, but I couldn't exactly get something to work too well. This'll help and I should be able to call Nova during the Web Zip if they manage to push block the Web Swing. That should grant me the unblockable I've been ever so attempting to set up. The thing is though, if they take the hit from the Web Zip or the following aerial, Nova's gonna bop 'em regardless and still give me a full combo. ;O

    Now I just need to find a new solo blockstring and I think I'll be solid with Spidey for a bit more longer. My current one got me Charging Star'd quite a few times by a decent Cap'n I kept running into. Speaking of which, f*ck that MU; I know it really isn't that bad, but I can't quite figure it out atm, and it's frustrating me. >__<
    Robo-mitsu: Wish I could ride a robo-tiger to work.
    Evil_Rahsaan: Airborne ur a mad scientist.
    XxDiana_PrinceXx: 6 years old shouldnt be playing sf4 its not suited for her, sorry!!! SSF4 is rated T for 13 and above. :nono:
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