Tales of Dark & Light: The SNK storylines-Revived

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  • smashzsmashz Joined: Posts: 68
    KOF '94: Japan Team (they seem to be the only team having a "personal issue" with Rugal as Rugal did defeat Saisyu and all)

    Heirden had a personal issue against Rugal... Rugal killed his family!

    KOF '95: Hero Team (Kyo + Saisyu and later avenging him against Rugal) with possible interference by Iori (he does say something to Rugal regarding the Orochi power).

    Heirden had a personal issue against Rugal... Rugal killed his family!

    KOF '96: Hero Team, Yagami Team, and Ikari Team could have all reached the finals somehow, but it ends up being the God Caliber Team ending (I mentioned the Ikari Team because Leona DOES play a big part in knowing her role in the whole Orochi gimmick).

    This one has a problem... the boss team is in the finals, so the FF or the Aof team have to be there to fight against them, they have a personal issue against them.

    KOF '97: God Caliber Team, for obvious historic reasons.
    Ok.

    KOF '98: Errr...no.
    No.

    KOF '99: Hero Team seems to be the only team with a personal reason to fight Krizalid AND we have a different dialogue vs. Kyo (unlike all the others). Whip could have been wandering around, too.
    Ok.

    KOF 2000: Must have been either the Hero Team or Benimaru Team (because of the Lin/Ron rivalry).
    Ok.

    KOF 2001: Hero Team, no doubt.

    no doubt? The problem with this ending is that it goes against everyone else storyline, usually when this happens it means it is a what-if ending...

    about kof Ex Neo Blood: you fight Iori before you fight Geese.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Was Andy supposed to be Geese's son at some point ?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    i looked at lantis' FAQ, and its pretty obvious who wins each year
    Originally posted by smashz
    KOF '94: Japan Team (they seem to be the only team having a "personal issue" with Rugal as Rugal did defeat Saisyu and all)

    Heirden had a personal issue against Rugal... Rugal killed his family!

    the japan team won. if you look at heidern's bio, it says that he stepped aside and let kyo kill rugal
    KOF '95: Hero Team (Kyo + Saisyu and later avenging him against Rugal) with possible interference by Iori (he does say something to Rugal regarding the Orochi power).

    Heirden had a personal issue against Rugal... Rugal killed his family!

    see above
    KOF '96: Hero Team, Yagami Team, and Ikari Team could have all reached the finals somehow, but it ends up being the God Caliber Team ending (I mentioned the Ikari Team because Leona DOES play a big part in knowing her role in the whole Orochi gimmick).

    This one has a problem... the boss team is in the finals, so the FF or the Aof team have to be there to fight against them, they have a personal issue against them.

    again, the japan team won. even if the geese team did make it to the finals, it doesn't mean that the AOF or FF team HAVE to fight them
    KOF '97: God Caliber Team, for obvious historic reasons.
    Ok.

    the god caliber team beat orochi & goenitz, but the japan team beat the new faces to win the official tournament
    KOF '99: Hero Team seems to be the only team with a personal reason to fight Krizalid AND we have a different dialogue vs. Kyo (unlike all the others). Whip could have been wandering around, too.
    Ok.

    yeah, K's team won
    KOF 2000: Must have been either the Hero Team or Benimaru Team (because of the Lin/Ron rivalry).
    Ok.


    actually, there was no official winner. the benimaru team and k's team met in the warehouse when zero interputted. and long isn't around in 2000
    KOF 2001: Hero Team, no doubt.

    no doubt? The problem with this ending is that it goes against everyone else storyline, usually when this happens it means it is a what-if ending...

    no. in EVERY SINGLE kof the teams have conflicting endings: they always beat the boss, no matter what. 2001 is no exception. K's team won, but the team leaders (terry, ryo, kyo, iori) all show up and help out
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by Hcparker
    Was Andy supposed to be Geese's son at some point ?

    I kind of recall someone saying (on the thread before the crash) that SNK toyed with the idea, but then decided against it. Which is why there is are vauge references, but again, the idea was ditched by the writers.
  • ssj2shingohanssj2shingohan Don't drop the oil Joined: Posts: 54
    Can some one tall me what is the top tier list for the kof story
    line. I need to know for a story I'm making.
    "It looks like it's time to oil up!"
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Tier One:Orochi (Dues Ex Machina)
    Tier Two: O. Yashiro, O. Chris, O. Shermie, Goetinz
    Tier Three: Kyo, Iori, Chizuru, Terry, Ryo, Geese, Krauser, Rock, Igniz, Zero, K', Krizald (Main Heroes and Main Villans)

    The rest is obvious.

    Others: Please fix my tiers, some of it is wrong.
  • ssj2shingohanssj2shingohan Don't drop the oil Joined: Posts: 54
    Tier One:Orochi (Dues Ex Machina)
    Tier Two: O. Yashiro, O. Chris, O. Shermie, Goetinz
    Tier Three: Kyo, Iori, Chizuru, Terry, Ryo, Geese, Krauser, Rock, Igniz, Zero, K', Krizald (Main Heroes and Main Villans)

    The rest is obvious.

    Others: Please fix my tiers, some of it is wrong.
    ___________________________________________________
    Thinks, but I need thr hole list.
    P.S.
    Isn't Terry stronger than Gesse,Krauser and Rock?
    "It looks like it's time to oil up!"
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    just to make things easier, here's a complete list of EVERYONE who EVER appeared in a KOF

    Andy Bogard
    Angel
    Athena Asamiya
    Bao
    Benimaru Nikaido
    Billy Kane
    Blue Mary Rian
    Brian Battler
    Chang Koehan
    Chin Gensai
    Chizuru Kagura
    Choi Bounge
    Chris
    Clark Steele
    Eiji Kisaragi
    Foxy
    Geese Howard
    Goenitz
    Goro Daimon
    Heavy D!
    Heidern
    Hinako Shijuo
    Igniz
    Iori Yamagi
    Jhun Hoon
    Joe Higashi
    K
    K9999
    Kasumi Todo
    Kim Kap Hwan
    King
    Krizalid
    Kula Diamond
    Kyo Kusanagi
    Leona Heidern
    Lin
    Long
    Lucky Glauber
    Mai Shirunai
    Mature
    Maxima
    May Lee
    Moe Habana
    Mr. Big
    Orochi
    Ralf Jones
    Ramon
    Robert Garcia
    Rugal Bernstein
    Ryo Sakazaki
    Ryuji Yamazaki
    Saisyu Kusanagi
    Seth
    Shermie
    Shingo Yabuki
    Sie Kensou
    Takuma Sakazaki
    Terry Bogard
    Vanessa
    Vice
    Whip
    Wolfgang Krauser
    Xiangfei Li
    Yashiro Nanakase
    Yuri Sakazaki
    Zero


    think that igniz should be higher, like tier 2
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    In your opinion, I was wondering who you guys belive was the original hero of all SNK fighting games, who you belive had at first and still has the most potential to become the main character in the KoF story if they were to make KoF 2003, if it isnt in the worls already(even though Kyo, K, and Iori seam to take that title, I think) and who is you favorite SNK fighter.

    In my opinion, I guess im a Terry fan, maybe cause he was I guess the original bad ass of SNK, or cause he just kicks ass in the three FF animes, or I dont know, he's just a bad ass I guess.

    My questions dont include any cast of SS simply because, well, their dead, been dead for years, and I dont think any of them are still alive.

    Just asking out of curiosity, to see what people belive, want, or who they like from SNK, nothing else.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by Gwawainn
    In your opinion, I was wondering who you guys belive was the original hero of all SNK fighting games, who you belive had at first and still has the most potential to become the main character in the KoF story if they were to make KoF 2003, if it isnt in the worls already(even though Kyo, K, and Iori seam to take that title, I think) and who is you favorite SNK fighter.

    In my opinion, I guess im a Terry fan, maybe cause he was I guess the original bad ass of SNK, or cause he just kicks ass in the three FF animes, or I dont know, he's just a bad ass I guess.

    My questions dont include any cast of SS simply because, well, their dead, been dead for years, and I dont think any of them are still alive.

    Just asking out of curiosity, to see what people belive, want, or who they like from SNK, nothing else.

    Well the 'original' hero NOT including SS or LB, timeline wise is . . .

    Ryo. According to AOF2, he's the first 'official KOF champion'.

    The problem is the Art of Fighting cast DOESN'T AGE when timeline wise they should be MUCH older when we see them again in KOF.

    Ignoring AOF2, the first official KOF champion is Billy Kane who lost the title to Terry during the tournament.

    The official KOF storyline itself seems to indictate it was Kyo and Iori, then they were replaced by K' and the mass-cloning stupidity that was the NESTs storyline.

    Based upon the 'Dragon Power' storyline mentioned in the past few games, I'm assuming that the next major storyline will revolve around Athena, Kensou and Bao.

    For the record, since Athena techincally is the reincarnation of a goddess, SHE's the most powerful in terms of pure potential.

    Currently I'd say Kyo and Iori are. Possibly K'.

    Terry and Ryo are slightly behind them, or about Ken's level in SF.
  • ssj2shingohanssj2shingohan Don't drop the oil Joined: Posts: 54
    Terry and Ryo are slightly behind them, or about Ken's level in SF.
    ___________________________________________
    Are you crazy? Terry and Ryo are way stronger then Ken.
    "It looks like it's time to oil up!"
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    For the 100th time can someone please tell me what "Dues Ex Machina" means. A translation please?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by ssj2shingohan
    Terry and Ryo are slightly behind them, or about Ken's level in SF.
    ___________________________________________
    Are you crazy? Terry and Ryo are way stronger then Ken.

    Not really.

    Terry is obviously the stronger of the two, having defeated Geese twice and Krauser.

    YET, neither is anywhere close to Ryu's overall strength.

    Neither is Ken.

    Terry COULD BE but he had to take care of Rock affecting his own training.

    Ryo likewise has been distracted and DID NOT train extremely hard.

    YET, all three are good fighters and extremely powerful in their own right.
  • smashzsmashz Joined: Posts: 68
    Is kof a dream match? Kof 94 was called "dream match" and kof 96 was called "battle of dream teams", but after that I did not see anything about that subject.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by smashz
    Is kof a dream match? Kof 94 was called "dream match" and kof 96 was called "battle of dream teams", but after that I did not see anything about that subject.

    The only 'dream match' I'm aware of is the one that follows the battle against Orochi.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by tsj76
    For the 100th time can someone please tell me what "Dues Ex Machina" means. A translation please?

    Latin/Greek? for God from (the) Machine.

    Critics basically use it to say "the author pulled shit from his ass, trying make something happen."

    An example would be Hinako defeating Geese, WITH A SUDDEN POWER BURST FROM NOWHERE! Hinako wins!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    i explained deus ex machna over in the fighting game discussions. give me a minute and i'll find it.

    98 is the only dream match
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    i explained it to you in the gill vs. orochi thread:

    "tsj:

    deus ex machina = "hand of god"

    it originated in those ancient greek dramas by guys like sophocles and aeschylus (sp). basically, the conflict is resolved without the help of the hero, god(s) intervened to solve the problem. actually, the greek plays i've read don't have this problem (many consider it to be a weakness in a drama), but this is what i've heard.

    if anyone wants to correct me, feel free"
  • smashzsmashz Joined: Posts: 68
    Kof 94 is cleary called Dream match in some advertisings, You can see one of them in www.vgmuseum.com.
    I think you did not understand my post. Kof 98 is a dream match, so what happens there has no effect in the kof timeline. If kof is a dream match, this means that what happens in the kof tournments like Terry losing has no effect in the storyline of AoF/FF. When did you see anything from kof appears in a aof or ff game?
  • SaikiSaiki Joined: Posts: 99
    Kyo, Chang and Choi have all appeared in Fatal Fury.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    i see what you mean now. the reason why they called kof 94 a dream match because it was supposed to be AOF versus FF with a few other SNK characters thrown in (the ikari, USA and China teams had featured characters who had appeared in other SNK games).

    what they were saying is that this is the first time these characters have ever been in the same game together (like robert & andy, just as an example). i guess that's where the 'dream' comes from because it was such a novel idea to combine all these characters into one game

    but 94 is not a dreammatch the same way 98 is; that is, whatever happened in 94 matters in the SNK universe, but whatever happened in 98 has no effect (like rugal's return)
  • smashzsmashz Joined: Posts: 68
    To tool_28: Ok, You probably are right.

    But Kyo, Chang and Choi only appeared in cameos and cameos are nothing storylinewise, so they never appeared in a fatal fury
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar The Grumpy Surly One Joined: Posts: 1,092
    Actually, cameos only mean nothing in Capcom's world. They may very well mean a lot in the SNK universe ('may' being the imperative word, but still...). Capcom has a reputation for tons of pointless cameos that have no chance of being canon (and even then, it's mostly restricted to just Street Fighter Alpha 2), but I can't think of any cameos in the SNK world that contradict anything, and there has been quite a few of them throughout the various SNK games.
  • smashzsmashz Joined: Posts: 68
    Mai appears in Samurai Shodown and Hanzo in fatal fury 2, so cameos mean nothing. Kof has a lot of cameos, like Geese, Mr.big and all their "friends" in Mexico 94's stage.
    Todoh, who is supposed to be missing, appears in all kof until 96... So they mean nothing...
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar The Grumpy Surly One Joined: Posts: 1,092
    I always wondered if that was just easter egg appearances, or if in fact SNK was actually trying to imply something and that Mai in Samurai Shodown was an ancestor to Fatal Fury's Mai Shiranai. Since Gen-An fights her and Gen-An's full name is Gen-An Shiranai...

    Also, I know that there is a guy named Hanzo who is a member of Mai's ninja clan in Fatal Fury. Wonder if they made him look exactly like Hanzo of Samurai Shodown and that's the guy in the Fatal Fury 2 cameo along the same veins as the 'Mai' that cameo'd back in Samurai Shodown.

    Guess won't know for sure. It's rather strange. I dunno about Geese and co in KOF 94 and Todo in future KOFs since I don't know enough about the SNK story to comment about how contradictory that is. :sweat:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    here's a quicky:

    are igniz, original zero and clone krizalid dead? igniz is probably dead, but the other two are another issue, since they should have been with Long, and Ron escaped alive.
  • SaikiSaiki Joined: Posts: 99
    clone Krizalid? The Krizalid that appeared in KOF2K1 is the same as the Krizalid in KOF99. It said in his bio that was released. Dunno how thats possible since he did die in KOF99. But then characters dying don't mean much since we've had more than one character come back from the dead. (Geese, Rugal, Nash, etc, etc)
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar The Grumpy Surly One Joined: Posts: 1,092
    Whew! For a minute there, I actually thought SNK did a clone of a clone of a clone thing with Krizalid. I was always wondering what was up with him. Though... wow, wonder why there's no special intro with him and whip or any dialogue or... anything Oo Strange strange SNK Playmore...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    in lantis' FAQ he says that 2001 krizalid is a clone twice: in his bio and in the 2001 plot.

    here's the 2001 storyline bit:
    "Another shocking revelation is shown as Krizalid, the advanced
    clone of K' who was thought to have died 2 years ago, appears aside the true Zero. Zero had retrieved the remaining data of the Krizalid project to create another clone of the late NESTS agent"

    and in his bio:
    "Two years later, Zero, Krizalid's superior and the one who had punished him for his mistake, once again resorted to the Krizalid project data and created another clone that would help him in his fight against the winners of the King of Fighters tournament. This Krizalid clone no longer had any self-consciousness, but only a zombie-like will to obey his master and destroy his enemies, a mere shadow of what Krizalid once was"

    perhaps lantis' FAQ is not as legit as i thought?


    tiamat: krizalid couldn't have any special intros because he's striker only
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    how old are vice & athena? i've always wanted to know.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    oh God, an KOF storyline thread!:)
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar The Grumpy Surly One Joined: Posts: 1,092
    LOL. I meant, a dialogue between Whip and Zero about him or... something when you fight Original Zero :p

    I believe Lantis' FAQ is made up of conjecture that he could garner by playing the game. It's as legit as... well, a plot FAQ which you could make just by looking at the games. The problem being, as all these official sources and experience by now have shown me, there are many interpretations of an in-game storyline which differs from what really happened, and there are cases where there's stuff that happened that's nearly impossible to gleam from the games.

    In all honesty, one of the main reasons the Street Fighter plot guide is remotely dependable is thanks to Saiki and his ability to understand Japanese (though there have been many other contributors, too, of course). I suppose in the end, it's all up to knowing Japanese, since the American companies are giving us jack squat for information -_-
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by vice3005
    how old are vice & athena? i've always wanted to know.

    athena = 18
    i think vice was in her mid 20's when she died

    so are zero, krizalid & igniz dead? obviously not a quicky...
  • Pained AuronPained Auron teh cock of justice Joined: Posts: 2,098
    hey i got a question. who is k? i mean is he a clone or is someone cloned from him? that damn clone story got me hella confused.
    R.I.P. Brian Graham aka Mummy-B 3-28-82 - 8-25-04
    with blood and rage of crimson red..ripped from a corpse so freshly dead.together with our hellish hate.we'll burn you all-THAT IS YOUR FATE
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Originally posted by g0ku3x
    hey i got a question. who is k? i mean is he a clone or is someone cloned from him? that damn clone story got me hella confused.

    here's my interpretation. It's probably off in some places, but I think i got overall story:



    after NESTS got Kyo, they examined his DNA and found out what combination of proteins gave him his flame abilities. They took that information and decided to change the DNA of another human being: K'. Since K' is just a pawn, they figured they could do whatever they want to him. So they went ahead and gave him the flames, but he needs a glove to keep it in check. He has no memory of his past.
  • Pained AuronPained Auron teh cock of justice Joined: Posts: 2,098
    i heard that he can control his flames now. one more question is krizalid his clone? i thought i read that in the hreo team ending in kof99.
    R.I.P. Brian Graham aka Mummy-B 3-28-82 - 8-25-04
    with blood and rage of crimson red..ripped from a corpse so freshly dead.together with our hellish hate.we'll burn you all-THAT IS YOUR FATE
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    1. yes, he got rid of his glove at the end of 2000

    2. yes, krizalid is his clone
  • Pained AuronPained Auron teh cock of justice Joined: Posts: 2,098
    Originally posted by tool_028
    1. yes, he got rid of his glove at the end of 2000

    2. yes, krizalid is his clone

    thanks for the info man
    R.I.P. Brian Graham aka Mummy-B 3-28-82 - 8-25-04
    with blood and rage of crimson red..ripped from a corpse so freshly dead.together with our hellish hate.we'll burn you all-THAT IS YOUR FATE
  • LantisLantis Can you fly, Bobby? Joined: Posts: 6,273 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ah yes...AOF 2...some game, eh? First you get that spiffy comment by Geese (that he's gonna kill Jeff Bogard in order to attain complete control of Southtown), making you believe that AOF 2 indeed takes place about at least 10 years before FF1 happens. Then you get Eiji Kisaragi who is in love with Mai, who (according to the same timeline) must have been just a kid by then. Now, I don't know if Eiji has a thing for little girls, but don't you think that AOF 2 is just screwy in itself? I mean, most of the endings are complete jokes (John Crawley, Temjin, Lee Pailong and Jack Turner's are no better proof), and those which are serious contradict one another.

    Let's say SNK pulled out a SFA 3 regarding AOF 2...confirm some things, deny others. Confirmed: AOF 2 = first KOF, Ryo = first champion. Denied: Any involvement Geese had in the whole story. I mean, in the whole KOF series, did you ever here any of the AOF cast mention Geese whatsoever (aside from Mr. Big), even when he entered KOF '96? Come on, at least that should have sparked a reaction by Ryo and co. (Like "Hey Geese! You escaped last time but now I'm gonna get ya!"), but not quite. So, with Geese out of the AOF 2 picture, you could place AOF 2 wherever you saw it fit in the SNK timeline, and in this case, I think they placed it a few years before FF 1 so the ages could match.

    Ummm...maybe I'm not making much of a point here, but let's put it this way: Geese was involved in AOF 2 and suddenly he isn't, for story sake.

    By the way...about rewriting the FAQ...it just might happen. But I need Saiki to help me out here! What other info have you found in that book that I don't know yet? I gotta know....now.... ;)
    There's no holding me back
    I'm not driven by fear
    I'm just driven by anger
    And you're under attack
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    alright, somebody revived this~!

    so let me get this straight: originally, AOF took place a decade before FF. Geese orders Takuma to kill jeff, but he refuses, so geese has Mr. Big kidnap Yuri and force Takuma to don the tengu mask. geese would go ahead and kill jeff himself.

    in AOF 2, either geese or Big sets up the first ever KOF tournament as a way to get revenge against the sakazakis, and ryo wins the tourney.

    when KOF 1994 came out, they moved the AOF storyline forward in time several years so that the characters wouldn't be too old. One of the major problems that arose was geese / jeff plotpoint. jeff died a while before FF1, so moving AOF forward screwed that up, right?

    EDIT: just as a reminder...

    1. is 2001 krizalid a clone or not?

    2. are krizalid, zero & igniz dead?
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