[KOFXIII] Sie Kensou

GimnboGimnbo Joined: Posts: 68


http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII/Kensou
http://www.dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sie_Kensou_(XIII)

Random bits of info:

Whiff cancelling Kensou's CD generates huge range for his specials.

Somewhat obscure target combo: st. B -> st. C. Links into cr. B with basically no effort.

Comments

  • Franchyze22Franchyze22 Lifeless Joined: Posts: 147
    Yeah i just picked this character. first time using a rekka type character in any game, but he was the only one who stood a chance against my friend hop crazy Kyo and Andy ~_~;
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  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    Kensou has a rekka series, yeah, but he shouldn't be using it to pressure like Fei Long or anything; even EX Iori's rekkas feel better for abare offense though all of his rekkas are poor on block. Characters with fast light attacks or quick horizontal moves will be able to punish Kensou's first rekka, and the second hit's recovery is only worse. He can go for a hail mary by delaying into the ending flying kick but if that's blocked he's done for since everyone can run forward and punish with a Close normal. Some characters can probably even do a reversal after the second rekka that would option select punish the second rekka or anti-air the delayed ender. However, Kensou's EX Rekkas are actually pretty safe even if you perform all four grounded hits but it's not the most efficient usage of meter.

    He's safer off ending blockstrings with his projectile and if the opponent likes to guard cancel roll stop using his projectile and use more normals like his advantageous target combo to bait and then remeaty guard rolls. Otherwise Kensou has a strong set of normals for anti-airing most angles of approach, though he lacks a long horizontal poke for grounded footsies so he has to get in closer into cr/st.B range, use his projectile (which is riskier up close), risk a sweep (which also loses to hops), or approach from a forward or neutral hop, or just wait for the opponent to fall outside their effective counterpoke range.

    Any knockdown combo will push the opponent toward the corner where his normal throw converts into a combo and where he can keep the opponent locked down; anti-airing hops with st.D or an early projectile, punishing rolls with a throw, command grab DM, or meaty combo, punishing full neutral/backwards jumps with rdp+D or rdp+BD, or applying frametraps and occasional hop pressure against a more patient opponent.

    He has some 'gimmicky' options with qcf+P, qcf+K, air qcb+P and his command backflip (B+D) which cancels, but you'll really have to set up the opponent before relying on these options at all since all can be punished or countered against a more calm opponent, so the risk and reward isn't much in Kensou's favor so they're pretty weak options for more standard or basic play.
  • malakyomamalakyoma Genetic manipulator Joined: Posts: 284
    so everyone knows he can combo off his normal throw in the corner right?
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  • SharntSharnt Joined: Posts: 29
    Yeah, as well as Benimaru and Chin.

    [SIZE=15px]Corner Throw,rdp.B 189 Dmg[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=15px]Corner Throw,rdp.BD 340 Dmg[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=15px]Corner Throw,rdp.B,(DC)qcb.P,qcb.A,qcf.P~qcf.P,qcf.P~qcf.P,rdp.B 395 Dmg[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=15px]Corner Throw,rdp.BD,(DC)qcb.P,qcb.A,qcf.A~qcf.A,qcf.A~qcf.A,rdp.B 479 Dmd[/SIZE]

    Are your best options after it.

    More combos here :
    http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=1792.new#new
  • Franchyze22Franchyze22 Lifeless Joined: Posts: 147
    What position would you thin he fits best in. I usually have him second or last, i think he needs meter to do damage with his rdp.BD with his throw(corner) as well as cr.B,cr.B string
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  • ReturnOfSantaReturnOfSanta SALTY SANTA Joined: Posts: 430
    I put him first since he can keep the opponent on complete lockdown with meaty fireballs on wakeup into a mixup after you end his rekkas in the corner. I haven't found a great use for his super specials so I just use him to build meter
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  • Shadow Ace 50Shadow Ace 50 Chaos Control A hoe Joined: Posts: 2,377
    I put him first since he can keep the opponent on complete lockdown with meaty fireballs on wakeup into a mixup after you end his rekkas in the corner. I haven't found a great use for his super specials so I just use him to build meter

    same here, I always put Kensou on point
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  • KrsJinKrsJin Cheat Kune Do Joined: Posts: 1,347
    I've actually been running him anchor even though I don't think he's a tip top option for it. I do, however, think Kensou's EX usage is really strong. His HD combo is pretty dang easy to hit-co and perform, but it's not the most damage, in fact I think it's one of the weaker HD combos.
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  • Franchyze22Franchyze22 Lifeless Joined: Posts: 147
    Really though his most damaging move is his EX RDP. move easy to combo into his air qcb.p into qcb x2 p. which is why i keep him second because i want him to have some meter.
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  • InverseInverse You? Destroy...me? Joined: Posts: 1,711
    Having a ridiculous time trying to get his EX Rekkas down. I sort of have his rekka game set while standing. Trying to rekka following a dash isn't fun tho~

    The EX Rekka x4 just has weird timing. Wish there was a video of someone just doing it. I'm having a hell of a time with it.
    "So Ryu is looking like poop more and more?"
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  • Franchyze22Franchyze22 Lifeless Joined: Posts: 147
    Having a ridiculous time trying to get his EX Rekkas down. I sort of have his rekka game set while standing. Trying to rekka following a dash isn't fun tho~

    The EX Rekka x4 just has weird timing. Wish there was a video of someone just doing it. I'm having a hell of a time with it.

    When you do it you can just press AC for the first rekka then press one button for the other 3, and the timing is fast, but i really don't think EX Rekka is really used for much besides a little extra damage.
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  • InverseInverse You? Destroy...me? Joined: Posts: 1,711
    Trying to do one of his trials, wants me to rekka into ex rekka for six total~ which for my noobish hands is pretty intense. Never played a rekka character in my life, so~ it's definitely jarring. Didn't know about the one button after the start, thanks for that.

    My issue with trying to do it, I keep getting his DP to come out. Now I know why Feilong and many rekka characters don't have DP moves that overlap the motion.

    Thanks for the tip. <3
    "So Ryu is looking like poop more and more?"
    ~Rockman85

    "No you'll just have to actually learn how to use Ryu."
    ~Deviljin 01
  • KrsJinKrsJin Cheat Kune Do Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Kinda worried my time of placing him as anchor may come to an end. I like his meter usage as anchor outside of his HD damage, but having a hard time opening people up. I can pressure and zone all day npnp, but if they have the life lead they have very little reason to panic when on defense outside of guard meter blinking.
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  • Balmung92Balmung92 Archer Joined: Posts: 255
    As far as placement with Kensou goes I would always put him as point, maybe second. Yes Kensou can do damage with meter but most other characters can do more damage for the same amount of meter while Kensou has good tools and easy damage combos without meter. His biggest problem is that a lot of his normals are really ass which no amount of meter can help. I just tend to run him first and use rekka combos for battery and get in on the opponent before they have the meter to do blowback or roll cancels.

    Also people were bringing up whiff canceling his CD to extend range but i dont really think he needs that since you shouldn't be throwing out things like kara rekkas or dps anyways and his fireball is more for oki. I tend to whiff cancel his D into fireball so that way if they jump they land on the kick and if they dont they have to block or jump over the fireball which gives kensou time to go in.

    And for the love of god ABUSE that target combo. Its a built in frame trap that starts from and standing low and you can use it to confirm into anything from rekka to full hd combo.
  • KrsJinKrsJin Cheat Kune Do Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Yeah the addition of that chain combo, and being able to link after it, is borderline nuts. Easiest hit confirm in the game, maybe haha.

    I need to get use to ending block strings with his fireball rather than a safe distance rekka or nothing at all. Just not use to doing it but need to be.

    I want to use his damn air dive punch more but I realize it's stupid to do and is basically suicide.
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  • InverseInverse You? Destroy...me? Joined: Posts: 1,711
    As a total beginner, what would you guys recommend I start learning as his BNB for like real matches during casuals this week? Just something I should shoot for and drill to death. The rekkas are slowly coming to me, but I have a feeling I should be doing tons more.
    "So Ryu is looking like poop more and more?"
    ~Rockman85

    "No you'll just have to actually learn how to use Ryu."
    ~Deviljin 01
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭✭
    As a total beginner, what would you guys recommend I start learning as his BNB for like real matches during casuals this week? Just something I should shoot for and drill to death. The rekkas are slowly coming to me, but I have a feeling I should be doing tons more.
    Something simple like cr.B x2/3 xx Rekka series. Otherwise he's largely a zoning character that makes an opponent do errors such as jumps then punishes them for it. So get used to doing things suck as cr.D xx qcb+P on block and on whiff or punishing jumps and hops with st.D and maybe cancel that into a projectile as well. So I'd practice more doing blockstrings and understanding his normals more over than drilling combos. All he really needs without Drive or Stock is just doing whatever hitconfirm into rekkas, at a basic level.
  • Franchyze22Franchyze22 Lifeless Joined: Posts: 147
    Yeah Cr.b(x2 or 3) into rekka series is usually what i go with for a safe block string. I know that his rekka's can be punished but i think the spacing after the cr.b makes it safe.( Not to sure though haven't really been punished) usually after a blocked cr.D i do a projectile to make it safe, i haven't tried the Whiff Blowback though, might have to hit the lab up and see what its all about. Also reiterating what Balmung said, i do Abuse this Target combo, cause i guess when people see that heavy punch blocked they just want to go on offense. To bad they don't see that low kick coming.
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  • SupahRreemSupahRreem Joined: Posts: 473
    off topic but wheres his outfit with him rocking the new balance sneakers and jean jacket lol?
    You smoking jub rocks, you gotta just stop and do the hop-ATCQ
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  • StrakamanStrakaman Joined: Posts: 27
    off topic but wheres his outfit with him rocking the new balance sneakers and jean jacket lol?
    He's been revived. No more thug life or shady Triad schemes. He's gone back to the dojo. He's legit now.
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  • SupahRreemSupahRreem Joined: Posts: 473
    He's been revived. No more thug life or shady Triad schemes. He's gone back to the dojo. He's legit now.
    oh I didnt know anything story wise about kensou but that makes sense though
    You smoking jub rocks, you gotta just stop and do the hop-ATCQ
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  • StrakamanStrakaman Joined: Posts: 27
    oh I didnt know anything story wise about kensou but that makes sense though
    lol thats mostly a stretch on what really happened. if this game actually had dlc costumes I'm sure he would be wearing that getup.i like both costumes so its hard to choose.
    Don't tell me you only know how to play fighting games?
  • Hyun SaiHyun Sai Joined: Posts: 360
    They also have a special button for taunt in arcade, or it is only the console version ? Kensou's one is quite useful...
  • Franchyze22Franchyze22 Lifeless Joined: Posts: 147
    Hey I was doing some matchup data on Kensou vs Kyo, just because I run into a lot of Kyo players at my local arcade and online, and when I fight Kensou vs Kyo I usually get bodied by good Kyo Players. But to the point, If you did not know (or if you did its always good to be reminded) Kyo's QCF.K move(Nana-Ju-Go Kai) is damn near unpunishable. The reason i say damn near is because in the corner if you Guard cancel roll, he will continue to do the move even if Kensou isn't there anymore. So if you Guard cancel roll (is the acronym for that GCR?) backwards in the corner you will have enough time to get out kensou's Rdp.B, and thus cancel into his qcb.p, qcbx2.p (maybe you can get out his EX.RDP.BD but I haven't tested that far yet.

    i'm tired of the outbreak of Kyo players, its getting old so i hope this helps. I may record it if someone needs to see it.
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  • KrsJinKrsJin Cheat Kune Do Joined: Posts: 1,347
    I know if you can get the second kick to whiff you can rock it hard. Have you tried ex fireball or ex run jump grab move? I'll mess with it too cause yeah letting Kyos get free attempts at that move is rough. I'd hate on Kyo more too but I really enjoy ex Kyo haha.

    And mannnn, so I went from not messing with his throw combos in corner (didn't realize til real late he even could) to just raking in the damage off them, it's so nasty. And his grab super is helping me open opponents up more for sure, even if it's semi weak it's a good enough tool to give Kensou the variety I needed.

    And yeah Hyun Sai, I'm really trying to incorporate his taunt a lot more.
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  • LiftedResearchLiftedResearch Real Honest Fighting Joined: Posts: 629
    Having a lot of fun with Kensou lately.

    I always run him on point, doing a bunch of cr.B -> rekkas, target combo, normals ->fireball to lockdown/zone is pretty strong already. Maybe the occasional drive combo.

    What kind of options does he have though if you do want to get big damage?
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  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    Just do rdp+D every time Kyo does qcf+K. There's a gap between the two upkicks where you can crank out a DP. Guaranteed punish for pretty much every character in the game with an invuln move, and he can be command grabbed with instant throws on block anyway. With that out of the question Kyo will have to use qcf+P for ending blockstrings (which can be guard rolled and punished) or he's more forced to do shorter strings.
  • dmick1981dmick1981 Joined: Posts: 29
    Almighty people im having trouble fighting kensou vs shen akuma and that damn clark with more super armor than umvc3. Lol. Any suggestions on how to fight these three. For some reason Im having trouble blocking takumas extremely good crossup D. Plus takumas one frame ex fireball lol. Takumas flying kick seems to be safe on block. Everytime I fight clark I end up sticking out a poke that gets absorbed by his god armor command throws. Arrrrgggghhhh everytime I try to zone clark with fireballs he dose that ex rekka punch move and I end up getting hit. He's a real pain in the ass to fight.
  • FullMetalRossFullMetalRoss That Hurt! Liar... Joined: Posts: 3,714 ✭✭
    Random note: you can hit check standing D. So like st.b,st.c, link st.d you can check to see the stand d hit before canceling it into dp. Its similar to chunli hoyukosen cancel in 3s fairly simple. Really useful for squeezing that extra damage out. Almost 500 midscreen is pretty nice.
    <<>>
  • rcorporonrcorporon Joined: Posts: 532
    Sorry for the noob question but what exactly is the primary use of Kensou's target combo? Is it's main function to link ito cr. B then into a rekka series?
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  • DynickstyDynicksty Joined: Posts: 562
    yes its also a really easy HD hit confirm
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    Sorry for the noob question but what exactly is the primary use of Kensou's target combo? Is it's main function to link ito cr. B then into a rekka series?
    It's either neutral or very slightly plus on block, and you can quite easily hitconfirm the string into a st/cr.B or st.D and then cancel into a special or HD mode activation. If you use the chain you'll either hit and score a combo, and at worst case if it's blocked you can still try pressing a button afterward without disastrous results, which makes his st.B a legitimate threat when going on the offensive.
  • DynickstyDynicksty Joined: Posts: 562
    target combo on block is either neutral or slightly negative. try to frametrap with 2b and you will actually get beat by certain normals.

    after a blocked target combo you can attempt to cross up a crouching opponent with short hop B
  • ZeromurasameZeromurasame Too much wrist action Joined: Posts: 364
    target combo on block is either neutral or slightly negative. try to frametrap with 2b and you will actually get beat by certain normals.

    after a blocked target combo you can attempt to cross up a crouching opponent with short hop B
    You can actually neutral hop the crouch b and punish the frame trap.
    No
  • DynickstyDynicksty Joined: Posts: 562
    if they're wise to it and try to hop then u can press 5D after the target combo. the hitbox isn't bad and u can cancel it into fireball, or backflip xx w/e
  • DynickstyDynicksty Joined: Posts: 562
    some tips: when you have meter to spare, hit confirm into his EX dp instead of his rekka series. Never waste drive meter outside HD or corner combos unless it gets you the kill. His damage output midscreen is very weak.

    end corner throw combos with 236K. You get a way better knockdown and sacrifice very little in damage.

    if attempting a sweep outside of frame traps, please react to what your opponent does by canceling your sweep. if they hopped your sweep, you can uppercut, if they block, throw another fireball. if your reaction is not that great try canceling your sweep into backflip and then canceling the recovery into fireball or dp. Your opponent can jump or hop between a blocked sweep xx A fireball but kensou recovers in time to antiair with dp B against most of the cast.

    anti airs: preferably you want to use the b version of his DP because it has quick and invincible startup. 2C and 5D are great AA normals. I find 2C to be more reliable than 5D since it lowers your hurtbox and antiairs at a better angle. don't use EX dp as an antiair unless you need the range. you will not get full damage and you'll end up wasting meter.

    His j. CD is very powerful air to ground but gets beat in most air to air situations. abuse this move when they are in the corner.

    Add this blockstring to your corner pressure: j. CD, st.CD xx 623C(about 6 presses). this does a lot of damage to the guard meter and even some chip damage. Make sure you mash just enough buttons to get the safe version of the special. From what I can see it puts you at either 0 or -1 on block. Be careful because the opponent can GC roll your st. CD. If they guard roll your 623C you can just stop mashing and you'll recover in time to block punish attempts.

    learn the ranges from which kensou can cross up. after a blocked target combo a regular j. b will usually cross up. hop b will cross up if they are crouching. in some instances, hyperhop C will cross up when hyperhop B wouldn't.

    More kensou players please! Will add more later if the contribution is helpful at all but honestly I'm looking for new tech to use from you other players!
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