The System Mechanics Thread

CYBORG COPCYBORG COP CYBER COPJoined: Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
Since there is no comprehensive source for system data on this game (for non-Japanese players!), I thought we should start a thread to collect all of the random information that the players may already know or be debating about. Use this thread to post or ask about system mechanics, any little random tidbit of information. I will try to filter the thread and compile the answers together, and hopefully organize it.
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PARRY:
When an attack is parried, the parrier and the object being parried are frozen for 16 frames. Note that the object may actually be a projectile, in which case the projectile would be frozen and not the character who threw it. During this 16 frames, the parrier can cancel into block and parry, and can tech throws (note that since you cannot intitiate a throw, you can only tech after the throw connects). In
addition to this intial 16 frames, the object is frozen for another few frames, depending on the attack: Jabs/Shorts--4 more frames; Strongs/Forwards--3 more frames; Fierces/Roundhouses--2 more frames; Specials/Supers--0 more frames. Once the object is unfrozen, the attack resumes its animation and can be cancelled into another attack as if it had connected.

(Some projectile attacks do not seem to freeze when parried because they are actually several individual attacks that approach you at the same time, rather than one multi-hit attack as is the case with Akuma's Red Fireball for example. Oro's EX Yagyou Dama and Akuma's KKZ act in this way, even though they seem like one big projectile.)

If a parry is successful, your character will automatically parry any other attack that hits you within the next 2 frames.

The game ingnores your inputs during the freeze for air parries. However, you can still buffer inputs during the freeze for ground parries.

If a jumping attack is parried, the attacker is reset to a neutral state upon recovery of the attack if it recovers before he lands. This means he is once again free to attack or parry, and even block low upon landing (trip guard). If it does not recover before he lands, he will be stuck in a small recovery upon landing.

Parry resets the juggle count (and thus resets all scaling).

You cannot parry 1 frame before the end of YOUR attack's recovery as in CvS2.

Is your parry attempt negated by entering another command? For example, if I push Forward, then quickly hold Back to block, will the parry attempt last while I am trying to block? If so, that would make option select parry vey powerful, and would allow you to incorporate a parry command into the motion of another command. For example, if you motion D-Df-F, would that count as a low-parry and high-parry attempt?

At what points in the air can you parry? That is, how far off the ground must you be to parry?

Can you buffer the parry command? That is, can you press Forward before your character is actually able to parry, for example, in the recovery of a move?
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THROWING:
Normal throws have 2 frames of startup, 1 active hitting frame (I'm guessing), and 21 frames of recovery if the throw misses.

A normal throw can be teched during the 5 frames after it connects by inputting LP+LK. A normal throw that connects while the opponent is in the startup of a normal throw will cause a tech. You cannot tech a throw if you were grabbed out of an attack.

You cannot be grabbed while you are in blockstun. You cannot be grabbed while you are airborne or in prejump. And in general, you cannot be grabbed during hitstun.

Are command grabs techable? If so, can they only be tech on their 1 active frame? Can a command grab can be used to tech a normal grab?

Does this game have throw immunity periods like the other Street Fighter games? For example, can you be thrown immediately after leaving blockstun, or after waking up? I'm sure there are some throw immunity rules put in place, but if they exist, they seem very short. Anybody know where these come into play, and how long they last?
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Comments

  • CYBORG COPCYBORG COP CYBER COP Joined: Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Juggling

    There is an internal juggle count. When an attack juggles an opponent, the juggle count increases by a certain amount dependant on the attack. The launching attack contributes to the juggle count.

    There are 3 states a juggled opponent can be in--Air Knockdown, Air Reel, and Air Recovery:
    During Air Knockdown, any attack will juggle, as long as the juggle count has not reached 6.
    During Air Recovery, only certain super moves will juggle, as long as the juggle count has not reached 6.
    During Air Reel, any attack will juggle (regardless of the juggle count).

    Notes:
    Most normal attacks send the opponent into Air Reel--Air Recovery. Most special moves/super moves send the opponent into Air Reel--Air Knockdown. Every attack sends the opponent into Air Reel--Air Knockdown if the opponent is stunned.

    Each hit of a multi-hit attack has an individual juggle value. The attacks in this game have various juggle values. Perhaps some are as low as 0. Some can be as high as 6, immediately ending a juggle. Some even reset the juggle count. All UOHs are worth 1 count; all air normals are worth 3 counts. Check here for the other juggle values: http://www6.plala.or.jp/tosaka/count.htm

    The combo message in this game appears immediately when and only when a combo cannot continue. This is helpful in determining the juggle values of attacks.

    Note the distinction between a juggle and a combo. A juggle during Air Recovery is not a combo in this game. There is only one action the opponent can do during Air Recovery, which is a parry, but this allows him to foil your juggle attempt. Thus you cannot truly combo an opponent while he is in Air Recovery. The combo ends and the combo message appears as soon as he enters Air Recovery.
  • Demon DashDemon Dash Hyper Viper Raccoon! Joined: Posts: 5,880
    I think it works in a similar fassion to grabs. Where as you can't cancel into a grab, it's similar with the throw. Take Aegis Reflector for an example. You can't throw an Aegis, get them in block stun and throw them, you need to wait till they have recovered before they can be thrown. Although different, it exists in a similar sense with tick throws. There is also a little glitch with the whiff throw I believe, where if you are crouching and go to tech a throw, you won't go through the whiff frames and will save you from being punnished if it is failed. Although on the other hand if you land it you will successfully tech throw.
    "I'm speculating that it was M.O.D.O.K. that tore my dog's ACL. That crazy maniac was flying his hoverchair DRUNK. DRUNK on POWER. And booze. But mostly on POWER!" - corrosivefrost :rofl:
  • CYBORG COPCYBORG COP CYBER COP Joined: Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Well sure, that's true, you can't be grabbed (grab/throw are the same thing to me) while you are in blockstun or hitstun (except in that special "turned-around" state, and if you're airborne I guess), just like the other SFs.

    But can you be grabbed immediately when you recover, or is it like CvS2 for example where your opponent must wait for a bit before grabbing you? My guess is the latter, but the throw immunity window is very small.

    I think what you're saying about teching while crouching is that you will get a whiffed jab/short instead of a whiffed throw, because you can't actually attempt a throw while crouching, correct?

    Here's another topic: how does damage scaling work?
  • CYBORG COPCYBORG COP CYBER COP Joined: Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    So suppose I launch the opponent in air-reel -> air-knockdown by a close to the corner shinkuu hadoken and reset him with a standing strong, I cannot hit him with a second strong but another shinkuu hadoken will hit him? And can I juggle after this second shinkuu hadoken ?

    No. The S.MP sends him into Air-Reel -> Air-Recovery, and Shinkuu Hadoken is not one of the super moves in the game that juggles during Air-Recovery. Even if you cancelled the S.MP into Shinkuu during Air-Reel, the Shinkuu would not connect with him fast enough to catch him while he was still in Air-Reel. He would be in Air-Recovery by then.
  • CYBORG COPCYBORG COP CYBER COP Joined: Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    CYBORG COP wrote:
    No. The S.MP sends him into Air-Reel -> Air-Recovery, and Shinkuu Hadoken is not one of the super moves in the game that juggles during Air-Recovery. Even if you cancelled the S.MP into Shinkuu during Air-Reel, the Shinkuu would not connect with him fast enough to catch him while he was still in Air-Reel. He would be in Air-Recovery by then.
    Oops, sorry! Actually, Shinkuu Hadoken does juggle during Air Recovery. But the juggles Juchel was asking about still do not work because the juggle value of S.MP is too high. It immediately puts the juggle count over the limit. Bottom line, if you reset with S.MP, the juggle is over unless you can hit him fast enough while he's still in Air Reel, and Shinkuu Hadoken can't do that. Cl.LP instead of the MP will work however, since the juggle value Cl.LP is low enough.

    I'm surprised nobody snapped at that...either nobody understands, or nobody cares.:sad:

    BTW, I edited the "Juggling" section.
  • JinraiJinrai Joined: Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    As I stated in another thread, you can break the 6-point limit by hitting someone on the way up. Also, juggle points have no effect on a grounded opponent unless the hit has a launch property. Oro's 2-hit close Strong does 1+3 juggle points on a grounded opponent because the first hit on its own launches, but Urien's low Fierce does 0+2 juggle points on a grounded opponent because the first hit does NOT launch by itself.

    Here's an example combo (thanks True_Tech): http://media.putfile.com/heyah

    Low Fierce (0+2 points), EX Headbutt (1+2 points), standing Strong (1 point) XX Headbutt (3 points).

    After the standing Strong, all 6 juggle points are used up. However, the headbutt combos because Ken is still on the way up (barely) when it connects.

    Another simple example is to have Ryu juggle a stunned opponent with six close Jabs. Cancel the last Jab into a DP quickly enough and it connects, even though you obviously used up all 6 points.

    Finally, this explains that 7-hit Necro juggle on Makoto we saw on Popy a long time ago. That seventh hit managed to nick Makoto on her way up.
  • JinraiJinrai Joined: Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Taunt data

    Source: http://www.ream.ais.ne.jp/~joh/3rd/system.htm
    Because of rounding, the math doesn't always add up.

    TAUNTS (specific bonuses for each character)

    Alex

    Unheld taunt - Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 9.4% for the first taunt and 6.3% for each additional taunt. Maximum: 6 taunts, 37.5% bonus.

    Held taunt - Increases damage for the next hit/combo or throw by 6.3% per extra arm turn. Maximum: 8 turns, 50% bonus.

    Yun

    Unheld taunt (works for held too) - Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 6.4% for each taunt/hat twirl. Maximum 8 taunts/twirls, 50% bonus.

    Held taunt only - Increases damage for the next throw by 6.3% for the first extra twirl and 3.1% for every additional twirl. Maximum 7 extra twirls, 25% bonus.

    Yang

    Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 31.3% and increases damage for the next throw by 6.3%. One taunt is the maximum.

    Ryu

    Increases stun recovery rate by 10% for the first taunt and an additional 21% for the second taunt. Lasts the whole round. Maximum 2 taunts, 33% bonus.

    Ken

    Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 31.3%. One taunt is the maximum.

    Ibuki

    Increases damage for the next hit/combo/throw by 43.8% only if she gets the leapfrog. Otherwise you get nothing. Maximum one taunt.

    Elena

    Increases stun damage for the next hit/combo by 18.8% per taunt. Maximum 4 taunts, 75% bonus.

    Necro

    Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 31.3%. Holding the taunt does nothing bonus-wise. One taunt is the maximum.

    Oro

    Recovers stun by 600-800% as the taunt is held longer.

    Sean

    Increases stun damage for the next hit/combo by 12.5% per ball thrown. If Sean throws nothing (ie. another ball on the screen), there is no bonus. Maximum 3 balls thrown, 37.5% bonus.

    Dudley

    Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 25% if a rose is thrown. Like Sean, there's no bonus if the rose isn't actually thrown. One taunt is the maximum.

    Hugo

    Unheld taunt - Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 18.8% (maximum 1 taunt). Also increases defence for the rest of the round by 6.3% per taunt (maximum 4 taunts, 25% bonus).

    Held taunt - Increases damage for the next hit/combo/throw by 25%. One taunt is the maximum.

    Poison - No bonus.

    Urien

    Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 31.3%. One taunt is the maximum.

    Akuma

    Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 43.8% and increases stun damage for the next hit/combo by 28.1%. One taunt is the maximum.

    Chun-Li

    Yawn (happens 100% of the time) - Increases stun recovery rate by 10% for the first yawn and an additional 21% for the second yawn. Lasts the whole round. Maximum 2 yawns, 33% bonus.

    Shoulder tap (happens 21% of the time) - Increases defense by 18.8%. Lasts for the whole round. Maximum one shoulder tap.

    Neck stretch (happens 38% of the time) - Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 31.3%. Maximum one neck stretch.

    Back stretch (happens 15% of the time) - Increases defense by 31.3% (more than the shoulder tap) for the whole round. Also increases damage for the next hit/combo by 31.3%. Maximum one back stretch.

    Q

    Increases defense for the whole round by 12.5% (maximum 3 taunts, 37.5% bonus). Also increases stun recovery rate for the whole round by 10% (one taunt is the maximum).

    Twelve

    It turns you invisible for a while.

    Remy

    Increases stun damage for the next hit/combo by 18.8% per taunt. Maximum 4 taunts, 75% bonus.

    Makoto

    Part 1 - Increases damage for the next hit/combo by 31.3% per taunt. Maximum 2 taunts, 62.5% damage.

    Part 2 - Replaces a second Part 1 taunt. One two-part taunt is the maximum.

    Part 3 - Increases stun recovery rate by 10% for the first full taunt and an additional 21% for the second full taunt. Lasts the whole round. Maximum 2 full taunt, 33% bonus.

    Hayate taunt - No bonus.
  • JinraiJinrai Joined: Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Stun data

    Like any other Capcom game, a direction or button (not including start) reduces dizzy time by one frame per input. With a programmable pad, you can shave down stun time to 1/7th of the figures given below. That's how KYSG can mash out of dizzies in as few as 13 frames.

    Depending on the last attack that you ate before the stars/birdies/angels/reapers appear, the game will randomly choose one out of 4 numbers. This number is the number of frames you would be dizzy without mashing.

    Normal move - 90 or 110 or 130 or 150 frames
    Normal throw - 120 or 140 or 160 or 180 frames
    Special hit - 150 or 170 or 190 or 210 frames
    Special throw - 120 or 160 or 200 or 240 frames
    Super hit - 120 or 160 or 200 or 240 frames
    Super throw - 150 or 190 or 230 or 270 frames

    UOH's and taunts aren't mentioned, but I'd assume they count as special moves.
  • XiiiXiii Joined: Posts: 1,007
    It'd be nice to have frame data up as well since Karathrow died.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Xiii wrote:
    It'd be nice to have frame data up as well since Karathrow died.
    http://web.archive.org/web/20040415190018/www.karathrow.com/dudley.html
  • True_TechTrue_Tech dragon the body Joined: Posts: 2,742 mod
    karathrow is = dc data so can't be trusted on some things :(
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    how come this isn't stickied already?
  • RoskiRoski The Triad Joined: Posts: 1,949
    Random questions:

    What are the number of frames allowed to break a throw?

    I feel kind of stupid asking this (I should know), but are there instances where you can parry before you block? As in, someone tries to punish...you could parry, but you couldn't yet block? Think this is no...

    If you're thrown out of something, is the throw still technically breakable if you can react fast enough (should know this too...)? I think this is yes...


    Thanks, and awesome info so far.
  • Demon DashDemon Dash Hyper Viper Raccoon! Joined: Posts: 5,880
    Random questions:

    What are the number of frames allowed to break a throw?

    I feel kind of stupid asking this (I should know), but are there instances where you can parry before you block? As in, someone tries to punish...you could parry, but you couldn't yet block? Think this is no...

    If you're thrown out of something, is the throw still technically breakable if you can react fast enough (should know this too...)? I think this is yes...


    Thanks, and awesome info so far.
    I have absolutley no idea what you are talking about. You didn't explain that in the best of ways like.
    "I'm speculating that it was M.O.D.O.K. that tore my dog's ACL. That crazy maniac was flying his hoverchair DRUNK. DRUNK on POWER. And booze. But mostly on POWER!" - corrosivefrost :rofl:
  • RaJu_RaJu_ takurutakurushorto Joined: Posts: 356 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    If your thrown out of a move you cant tech out of it.
    "Im pure adrenaline, Uncut, Straight to da gut medicine, Raw cure for pain I coat ur brain like polyurethane, Simple and plain, I'll explain it in laymans terms, If you came to learn how to make fire, I'ma make it burn!!" - Big Pun, Dream shatterer
  • JinraiJinrai Joined: Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Long story short, you have 5 frames to tech a throw. However, you cannot tech a throw on the EXACT frame the opponent's throw connects, ie. pressing Jab+Short exactly 2 frames after the opponent does.

    I don't know for sure if you can tech a throw that snatched you out of a move, but I do know that you can tech a throw that catches you in parrystun. For example, Akuma tries to chip you to death with red fireball xx SA1. You start to parry, but he walks up and throws you while you're parrying. You can tech that throw.

    "Combo breaker parries" seem to only be in CvS2, but that's a guess.
  • Atb_555Atb_555 www.neoempire.com Joined: Posts: 1,538
    How do throws on wake up characters work.

    You just been knocked down and your opponent (Makuto in this instance) stands above you and whiffs some MPs, even while your down. You get up and she grabs you for free! How does that work?

    Also want someone to explain throwing when your the wake character.

    Thanks.
    Nose picking is one of life's greatest treasures...
  • RoskiRoski The Triad Joined: Posts: 1,949
    Thanks for the responses. Guess it wasn't stupid...just poor wording? =p

    What I was getting at with the block/parry...an example: say Ken vs. Ryu - Ryu blocks a Ken sweep, and then Ryu tries to punish with a sweep, but Ryu reacts slowly - it's fast enough however that Ken couldn't block it, but not fast enough that he couldn't parry it. Not saying this is fact...but this is what was meant by the question. I was going to test punishing specific things in parry training and was trying to figure it out first.
  • GaijinblazeGaijinblaze fingerlicans Joined: Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    You're saying you want to parry during recovery when blocking isn't possible? You can't do that. Otherwise there wouldn't be reversals since they could be parried. You can't do anything during recovery, be it moving, blocking/parrying, or teching a throw.

    Oh and thanks for the great info Jinrai.
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  • RoskiRoski The Triad Joined: Posts: 1,949
    Well...not that I want to, it's just I was told something along these lines a loooooooooong time ago, and was looking for some confirmation one way or the other. I never really played the game like this was possible, just wanted to make sure.

    Thanks for the reply.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    It's in CFE too.

    Jinrai: so, 5 frames AFTER the throw grabs you, you can tech? But otherwise no?

    Does teching normal throws with command throws work the same way? i doub it, because that kind of tech is really difficult, while normal throw techs are not.
  • JinraiJinrai Joined: Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    You can also input the tech during the opponent's throw startup, unlike CvS2. But yeah, the window after the throw connects is 5 frames.

    For special throw techs, my guess is that the normal throw grab frame has to coincide with the grab frame of the special throw. 1 frame window.
  • halluciN8halluciN8 Joined: Posts: 77
    Is damage reset after a parried reset?
    For example say I command grab in GJ and eventually land a jumping forward to reset, then stick out a close forward which is parried then do another close forward that isn't parried and they get launched into an ender. Is that damage reset?
  • JinraiJinrai Joined: Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    In a word, yes.

    As soon as the opponent parries, everything is reset: damage, stun, and juggle count. If the opponent doesn't parry, everything scales as if it the whole thing was a combo.

    This is why it's unwise to try to parry Oro's corner Yagyou reset unless you're almost dead or stunned. If you parry and fail, Oro can deal about 30% damage, 60-70% stun, and even re-reset you if he has meter. If you just take the hits, Oro can only do about 15% damage, 20-25% stun, and can't re-reset you because the juggle count is too high: the second low Fierce will whiff.
  • halluciN8halluciN8 Joined: Posts: 77
    ah good thanks...this is a nice thread btw.
  • FlareFlare Joined: Posts: 274
    JinraiPVC wrote:
    Source: http://www.ream.ais.ne.jp/~joh/3rd/system.htm

    Ryu

    Increases stun recovery rate by 10% for the first taunt and an additional 21% for the second taunt. Lasts the whole round. Maximum 2 taunts, 33% bonus.

    Ryu's taunt is not that good. Rounded up, stun recovery rate does increase by 10% for the first taunt, but only an additional 9% for the second taunt, followed by another 9% for the third taunt. The total bonus is 28% for all three taunts.

    My data was tested with a stop watch by doing 3 hits of denjin on second player in the corner, then close standing fierce punch. Immediately, time to recover to 0% stun was counted. The following was recorded:


    0(no) taunts: 22 seconds, 0% bonus

    1 taunt: 20 seconds, 10% bonus

    2 taunts: 18 seconds, 19% bonus

    3 taunts: 16 seconds, 28% bonus


    I only know this because I've been working on a comprehensive denjin hadouken guide for quite a while...so i am a dork, but not enough of a dork to test this right away. anyway, the guide has a bunch of meter, stun, and miscellaneous system data that is unavailable anywhere - so I'll keep you posted.
  • JinraiJinrai Joined: Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Shrug, might have been a mistranslation.
  • CYBORG COPCYBORG COP CYBER COP Joined: Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Okay, I've been updating my first post to add new information, as well as new questions, so check it out. What it really needs right now is a translation of all of the parry data.
    are there instances where you can parry before you block? As in, someone tries to punish...you could parry, but you couldn't yet block? Think this is no...
    I don't think you can. Here's my test. If Ryu blocks Dudley's F+HK and does a reversal Shin-Shoryuken, Dudley is one frame from recovery when Shin-Shoryuken connects (F+HK is at -2, and Shin-Shoryuken hits on the 2nd frame). Since Dudley can't block yet, the only thing he can do to escape it would be that "early parry", assuming it exists. I tried parrying it several times in training mode with a partner, and it didn't work once. So unless the timing is very tight, I'd say it doesn't exist.

    BTW Jinrai, thanks for translating all that frame data. Don't worry, I'm saving all of it to a text file.
  • JinraiJinrai Joined: Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I'll get into parry frame data the next chance I get. BTW, throws have 2 frames of startup, not 3. Chun's airthrow has 6 frames of startup, while Ibuki's and Oro's have 7.
  • JinraiJinrai Joined: Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    More than you ever wanted to know about parries

    Ground parries of ground attacks/fireballs may only be attempted once per 24 frames.
    Ground parries of air attacks may only be attempted once per 19 frames.
    Air parries may only be attempted once per 21 frames, regardless of what's being parried.
    These are the restrictions that keep you from mashing down (or toward in the air all day.

    If a parry attempt is successful, the 19/21/24 frame restriction is taken away and you can attempt another parry immediately.

    If another attack connects within 2 frames of your parry, it will automatically be parried as well. For example, one parry input negates a few hits of Twelve's SA1 since the hits are close enough together.

    When a parry attempt is successful, you and the object you're parrying are frozen for 16 frames (the object may be frozen for a few more frames depending on what it is, see below). These are the frames where the character goes into his or her parry pose. In CFE, you're frozen for far less time, which is why parries look so weird in that game.

    The only exceptions to the freeze rule are Oro's EX Yagyou Dama and the parryable hits of Akuma's KKZ: they have an infinite number of hits spaced a certain number of frames apart and won't stop for anyone or anything. Other supers that you have to parry fast, like Ibuki's SA1, Twelve's SA1, or Remy's SA1, are only because there are many seperate knives/sonic booms/needles.

    When you parry a fireball, you and the fireball are frozen, but NOT THE OPPONENT. If you start parrying Akuma's SA1, he can freely move in and attack while you're stuck. However, this 16-frame parrystun can be cancelled into a block or another parry (the latter is obvious given the last paragraph). If you are thrown out of parrystun, you CAN tech the throw, but only after the throw connects.

    There are 3 types of parry: blue, sloppy blue, and red. Blue parries are performed by returning the stick to neutral quickly enough. Sloppy parries occur when the stick isn't returned to neutral in time, reducing the parry window; these are far more noticeable in CvS2 than in 3S. Red parries are parries that cancel blockstun.

    Blue ground parry windows for ground moves/fireballs: 10 blue, 6 sloppy.
    Blue ground parry windows for air moves: 5 blue, 5 sloppy. (Interesting.)
    Air parry windows for all moves: 7 blue, 6 sloppy.
    Red parry windows for all moves: 3 for normal moves, 2 for specials/supers.

    Frame advantage for parried Jabs/Shorts: +4 (opponent is frozen for 20 frames)
    Frame advantage for parried Strongs/Forwards: +3
    Frame advantage for parried Fierces/Roundhouses: +2
    Frame advantage for non-projectile specials/supers: 0
    Frame advantage for projectiles: -16

    Example of frame advantage: let's say Chun parries Ken's low Forward point blank. Chun is in parrystun for 16 frames and Ken is frozen for 19 frames. Because Chun's low Jab has 2 frames of startup, Ken won't be allowed to cancel to SA3 if Chun does the Jab at the earliest possible frame.

    You are able to buffer motions while frozen for all ground parries, but NOT air parries. The game treats air-parrystun like superfreeze and does not accept inputs until the freeze is over.

    That's about it.
  • TantinTantin [iHeatExtend] Joined: Posts: 1,099
    So you can't parry a fierce and say.. standing jab it?
    I stand 77 feet tall, I got eight balls
    and all'a'y'all are subject to my sprawl
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    some day I'll be both revered & passe like madonna
  • GaijinblazeGaijinblaze fingerlicans Joined: Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    You can, because of the recovery of the fierce. The +2 that you gain doesn't seem to include the recovery of the move you parry. I assume that you combine both to get the total # of frames where they are vulnerable.

    Well... I think.

    Edit: Unless you mean they're cancelling into a super; since you gain only +2 then I dunno. I suppose you wouldn't be able to jab them before they can super in that case.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    you're getting too complex.

    If the move you're retaliating with, has a startup less than the advantage-number you get from your parry, you can hit them before they can cancel into anything.

    Apparently? I didn't know that. Cool. :D

    So, it's easier (bad choice of words?) to cancel into super/special off stronger normals if they're parried? I've wondered why my c.shorts into headbutt haven't been able to come out with Urien when parried.. is this why?
  • JinraiJinrai Joined: Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Best Kind Boxer has it dead on. And yeah, that would explain your low Short XX Headbutt problem.

    Regarding the first post of the thread:
    If you parry the knee of Ken's Shippu, he will NOT go into the rising hurricane kick. Makoto's SA2 is right, and so is Q's SA2.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    What is frame advantage/disadvantage?

    Would this be the wrong thread for that question?
  • Arlieth TralareArlieth Tralare 3rd Strike Senior Citizen Joined: Posts: 1,137
    Here's something to try out if you don't believe the parry frame advantages:

    With Makoto, stand over a rising opponent and try to cancel Strong -> SA1 without getting thrown after the parried Strong. It's impossible.

    Now try cancelling Oroshi (QCB+P) -> SA1. They can't do anything.
    CFN: ArliethTralare
  • halluciN8halluciN8 Joined: Posts: 77
    How many extra frames do you get for stunning in the middle of a combo? Links are so much easier and some combos not possible before become possible.

    Also this might sound noobish, but I always get tripped coming down from lets say a neutral jump. Most of the time I try low parry but always get tripped. Sometimes I just try and block low as I land but still get tripped...

    I thought of another Q last night but can't remember.
  • DooMDooM Joined: Posts: 1,036
    my guess is if you did whatever move in the air except for divekick, you have tripgaurd, which means you have like a pause before you can do anything.

    usually its countered with going low, as it's hard to consecutively hit someone standing on the ground. *perhaps its easier to do on urien's late j.hk? I saw Nuki c.lp xx super him after that parry. sick.*
  • JinraiJinrai Joined: Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Becoming stunned by a non-knockdown move adds exactly 1 frame to your hitstun before the stars/birds/angels/reapers appear.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    how come this isn't stickied already?
    Because no one asked me to.

    N - Good stuff though.
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