The System Mechanics Thread

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  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    It's one version of his uppercut, which you said can be grabbed, EASY, even though EX upper can't be grabbed.


    You said you were going to do tests of your own. Do them, then come back here spouting that you meant something else, yadadadadada.


    No, that MOVING DOESN'T END THE THROW INVINCIBILITY. Wow, that so hard to figure out?


    This is the mechanics thread, why wouldn't we talk about frames?

    No shit, the point was, what would you do if someone with vastly more experience than you (who seems to value such things) told you something that contradicts what you've "known" for so long?

    my opinions on this game change very often because I didn't use those tools. I just noticed these things. In play. Over time.

    If your point was so strong you wouldn't feel the need to nitpick at statements implied. I said uppercuts not EX uppercuts. Is ryu's shakunetsu regular fireball or his EX fireball? The point is, he didn't grab the uppercuts because he mistimed it not because of any inherent flaws in the karakusa, it was his timing that caused it to miss because it is certainly possible to grab dudley's uppercuts.

    For real now, there's no point in replying to this because you want to be right and I'll let you because you did us all one favor and that was proving that makoto can 100% chun. All I wanted was for outsiders that aren't ESN, JAK, and telesniper to understand that what you guys are saying doesn't affect much because all it dictates is if you want to maintain momentum and you happen to need to time your attack within that 6 frame window or whatever, make it an attack instead of a grab. Funny thing you guys left out was that that 6 frame window can be negated by a single tap forward or down. 5 frame parry window.

    I shouldn't have added that last bit but once again, you guys are right, in that video she was hit and only grabbed the super because she did the karakusa too early in each example. The dash cancel was in regards to something I thought I noticed but yeah that was a mistake on my part.
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  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    we should play for money. So you can finally stop acting like you're better than me at this game.

    I don't remember ever doing/saying anything to imply I was better than you in 3s, but you know where to find me if you want to do that. Either way this thread isn't about discussing grudges/money matches
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Gonna' ask here just in case:

    I get a knockdown with Alex. They're in the corner. They quick roll. I do one dash in immediately after the knockdown. I'm feeling myself. I hit stMK (Alex) which according to this link (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...GFQWNpWgA&sig2=lSIaM1y30gTnJl8uUFEWog&cad=rjt ) has 5 frame startup. And its beaten by them mashing crLK or MP or even crLP with the Twins and they get massive damage as a result. Even though like say Shoto crLK (Ken) has 5 frame startup and I know I hit MK way before they mashed.

    Is this just an online-only problem or what? I've watched tons of Shend videos and I haven't really noticed that happening so I'm left to assume it is but I have to make sure. Just like Dive Kicks become insanely better online.

    I know you can always parry but I don't have the reactions. And by that I mean I make a choice about jumping in and I'm going to do this and that and the other, I can't adjust on the fly. So I either jump in and expect to parry or jump in HP and try to land a tick throw or combo.
    STOMP!
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    I don't remember ever doing/saying anything to imply I was better than you in 3s, but you know where to find me if you want to do that. Either way this thread isn't about discussing grudges/money matches

    you're assuming to know my limits of understanding regarding this game. That's enough because in this game it's about what you know about the game that can help you. I'll be there this weekend to play. I would also appreciate it if your friends didn't crowd me and talk shit to me while I played to give you an edge. I know you didn't directly step in to say "hey dandur you suck" but you didn't add anything to it besides you don't know what you're talking about. If I don'y know what I'm talking about, why don't you ever HK tatsu against me?

    Dandur: 1
    Phurai: 0

    No grudges, it's just that anyone that understands this game well enough can see that the karakusa was too early. They are expecting it to work in a situation that it doesn't and providing an explanation using the baseline for hits. The reason this game is so much more different than the rest of the SF games is because it doesn't work in such a way. Everything gets it's own "thing", don't know what to call it. If you want to hit them on wake up, you have consider this. If you want to grab you have to consider that. It's not this + 5. It's that. As a programmer I'd figure you would understand that.
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  • JAK..JAK.. Joined: Posts: 544
    Gonna' ask here just in case:

    I get a knockdown with Alex. They're in the corner. They quick roll. I do one dash in immediately after the knockdown. I'm feeling myself. I hit stMK (Alex) which according to this link (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...GFQWNpWgA&sig2=lSIaM1y30gTnJl8uUFEWog&cad=rjt ) has 5 frame startup. And its beaten by them mashing crLK or MP or even crLP with the Twins and they get massive damage as a result. Even though like say Shoto crLK (Ken) has 5 frame startup and I know I hit MK way before they mashed.

    Is this just an online-only problem or what? I've watched tons of Shend videos and I haven't really noticed that happening so I'm left to assume it is but I have to make sure. Just like Dive Kicks become insanely better online.

    I know you can always parry but I don't have the reactions. And by that I mean I make a choice about jumping in and I'm going to do this and that and the other, I can't adjust on the fly. So I either jump in and expect to parry or jump in HP and try to land a tick throw or combo.

    Options very depending on what knocked them down and how fast they get up.

    I am not an Alex player but depending on how they were knocked down and who they are playing you might not have time to dash up and meaty them with s mk before they can mash a quick poke/throw.

    *it also could be you just miss timing it but without a specific example I could not tell you.

    Training mode here is your friend
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    As for the moving negating grab invulnerability. That was just Makoto. I forgot that. I don't think about this stuff too often.
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  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Options very depending on what knocked them down and how fast they get up.

    I am not an Alex player but depending on how they were knocked down and who they are playing you might not have time to dash up and meaty them with s mk before they can mash a quick poke/throw.

    *it also could be you just miss timing it but without a specific example I could not tell you.

    Training mode here is your friend

    Difficult to set up in training mode and the friends I usually play I can't drive up to for the time being. It seems to be a specific problem against the Twins and Shoto's. I personally chalk it up to online being dumb though.
    STOMP!
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    you're assuming to know my limits of understanding regarding this game. That's enough because in this game it's about what you know about the game that can help you. I'll be there this weekend to play. I would also appreciate it if your friends didn't crowd me and talk shit to me while I played to give you an edge. I know you didn't directly step in to say "hey dandur you suck" but you didn't add anything to it besides you don't know what you're talking about. If I don'y know what I'm talking about, why don't you ever HK tatsu against me?

    No grudges, it's just that anyone that understands this game well enough can see that the karakusa was too early. They are expecting it to work in a situation that it doesn't and providing an explanation using the baseline for hits. The reason this game is so much more different than the rest of the SF games is because it doesn't work in such a way. Everything gets it's own "thing", don't know what to call it. If you want to hit them on wake up, you have consider this. If you want to grab you have to consider that. It's not this + 5. It's that. As a programmer I'd figure you would understand that.

    ok bro, this is what I read in this discussion. JAK asks if super freeze negatives wakeup throw invul, ESN confirms it, and you start this tangent about how its really just any commitment to an action negating the throw invul frames, and seem to try to bolster your position by saying you are coming from a more practical frame of mind than the pure theoretical that telesniper, ESN and JAK are at. I trust ESN's understanding of the mechanics of 3s more than you because he references data and has created invaluable tools for understanding this game. That's not intended to be a slight against you specifically. I'd go to ESN for these types of questions before just about any socal player, including Yi or Pyro. knowledge isn't the same as skill, and if you think I think you're unskilled you're wrong. I've probably spoken about your strengths as a player more than most
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    my opinions on this game change very often because I didn't use those tools. I just noticed these things. In play. Over time.

    If your point was so strong you wouldn't feel the need to nitpick at statements implied. I said uppercuts not EX uppercuts. Is ryu's shakunetsu regular fireball or his EX fireball? The point is, he didn't grab the uppercuts because he mistimed it not because of any inherent flaws in the karakusa, it was his timing that caused it to miss because it is certainly possible to grab dudley's uppercuts.

    For real now, there's no point in replying to this because you want to be right and I'll let you because you did us all one favor and that was proving that makoto can 100% chun. All I wanted was for outsiders that aren't ESN, JAK, and telesniper to understand that what you guys are saying doesn't affect much because all it dictates is if you want to maintain momentum and you happen to need to time your attack within that 6 frame window or whatever, make it an attack instead of a grab. Funny thing you guys left out was that that 6 frame window can be negated by a single tap forward or down. 5 frame parry window.

    I shouldn't have added that last bit but once again, you guys are right, in that video she was hit and only grabbed the super because she did the karakusa too early in each example. The dash cancel was in regards to something I thought I noticed but yeah that was a mistake on my part.
    These aren't opinions, there's a difference.

    Nitpick? Really? Clarify what you mean, then no one can "nitpick" jack.

    YOU'LL LET ME? Climb off that mountain friend, it's nice down here. That wasn't a favor, that was my stubbornness, rather, that was a lucky break that opened the flood gates to finding how stun to her from pretty much where ever you could land SA2.
    .
    You shouldn't have added the last part, because it's wrong. JAK timed the Karakusa right, so what you're effectively saying is that SA3 PROLONGS her grabs active frames? Otherwise it wouldn't have grabbed, because it was "too early". What you're saying about, committing actions negates the window is bull, plain and simple. All you have to do is hold back on wake up to see this, I guess in 6 years of play, you've never witnessed that before though, right?
    As for the moving negating grab invulnerability. That was just Makoto. I forgot that. I don't think about this stuff too often.
    You serious? Because I tested with more characters, not just Makoto. The same results happened. Yes, even when tapping down, forward or back.
  • JAK..JAK.. Joined: Posts: 544
    Difficult to set up in training mode and the friends I usually play I can't drive up to for the time being. It seems to be a specific problem against the Twins and Shoto's. I personally chalk it up to online being dumb though.

    Twins on quick rise get up very fast

    as for testing in training mode I would pick yang (he is cooler) vs Alex record Alex doing said knockdown dashing up and doing an immediate s mk. Replay it with you controlling Yang, then quick rise you and mash cr jab/throw if it stuffs the start up of the s. mk reconsider your options and determine what options they have in this situations.

    P.S. You really should dedicate time to learn all of your options on a given knockdown.

    (eg if I knock down the twins with a throw I can do options A-Z. They can do such and such to beat A, this or that to beat B, etc)
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    These aren't opinions, there's a difference.

    Nitpick? Really? Clarify what you mean, then no one can "nitpick" jack.

    YOU'LL LET ME? Climb off that mountain friend, it's nice down here. That wasn't a favor, that was my stubbornness, rather, that was a lucky break that opened the flood gates to finding how stun to her from pretty much where ever you could land SA2.
    .
    You shouldn't have added the last part, because it's wrong. JAK timed the Karakusa right, so what you're effectively saying is that SA3 PROLONGS her grabs active frames? Otherwise it wouldn't have grabbed, because it was "too early". What you're saying about, committing actions negates the window is bull, plain and simple. All you have to do is hold back on wake up to see this, I guess in 6 years of play, you've never witnessed that before though, right?

    You serious? Because I tested with more characters, not just Makoto. The same results happened. Yes, even when tapping down, forward or back.

    I was saying her extra wake up grab invulnerability frames are negated by action and that I was mistakenly applying it to everyone. I am not saying it prolongs anything but rather that the game connects them in a much less cleaner way than it would with a super freeze. Not exactly what I'm saying but given your explanation of it, that applies itself rather well. I was saying you guys are expecting the karakusa to work when it can't. I know you guys are explaining why it can't but in your explanations for why it can't you are using the hit, as opposed to grab, baseline. Maybe you're establishing a grab baseline?

    And here ^ I'm stating that I got confused in thinking that Makoto's extra grab invulnerability frames applied to everyone and not saying any of it as an attempt to refute the evidence provided but rather a composite explanation of it. You are Makoto in your explanations. I am the game. I am not literally the game, that is my point of reference.
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  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    ok bro, this is what I read in this discussion. JAK asks if super freeze negatives wakeup throw invul, ESN confirms it, and you start this tangent about how its really just any commitment to an action negating the throw invul frames, and seem to try to bolster your position by saying you are coming from a more practical frame of mind than the pure theoretical that telesniper, ESN and JAK are at. I trust ESN's understanding of the mechanics of 3s more than you because he references data and has created invaluable tools for understanding this game. That's not intended to be a slight against you specifically. I'd go to ESN for these types of questions before just about any socal player, including Yi or Pyro. knowledge isn't the same as skill, and if you think I think you're unskilled you're wrong. I've probably spoken about your strengths as a player more than most

    I can't stay mad at you, you're too cute. But seriously, you're right, bad on me for thinking practical experience is worth more than a scoped analysis. It's nearly impossible to catch every frame and remember it well enough. And there's no sarcasm in any of those statements.

    I should also say I'm sorry. I don't want to turn this into me vs you anymore than it has to be. I'm sorry about that, bro.
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  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    I can't stay mad at you, you're too cute. But seriously, you're right, bad on me for thinking practical experience is worth more than a scoped analysis.

    :lovin:

    just saying, this thread is pretty much all about understanding and dissecting the abstract without regard to practicality

    and hey if you get there early lets still play a friendly set before the crowd gets there and it becomes a spectacle
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    :lovin:

    just saying, this thread is pretty much all about understanding and dissecting the abstract without regard to practicality

    and hey if you get there early lets still play a friendly set before the crowd gets there and it becomes a spectacle

    I should have my tablet by then, we can record it and not post it. LOL
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  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Twins on quick rise get up very fast

    as for testing in training mode I would pick yang (he is cooler) vs Alex record Alex doing said knockdown dashing up and doing an immediate s mk. Replay it with you controlling Yang, then quick rise you and mash cr jab/throw if it stuffs the start up of the s. mk reconsider your options and determine what options they have in this situations.

    P.S. You really should dedicate time to learn all of your options on a given knockdown.

    (eg if I knock down the twins with a throw I can do options A-Z. They can do such and such to beat A, this or that to beat B, etc)

    Good advice. Just tested it and yeah, sMK beats whatever they do sans Super or EX Upkicks with Yun. As I thought it was just online being dumb.
    STOMP!
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    Good advice. Just tested it and yeah, sMK beats whatever they do sans Super or EX Upkicks with Yun. As I thought it was just online being dumb.

    n'est pas not sans

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  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    I was saying her extra wake up grab invulnerability frames are negated by action and that I was mistakenly applying it to everyone. I am not saying it prolongs anything but rather that the game connects them in a much less cleaner way than it would with a super freeze. Not exactly what I'm saying but given your explanation of it, that applies itself rather well. I was saying you guys are expecting the karakusa to work when it can't. I know you guys are explaining why it can't but in your explanations for why it can't you are using the hit, as opposed to grab, baseline. Maybe you're establishing a grab baseline?

    And here ^ I'm stating that I got confused in thinking that Makoto's extra grab invulnerability frames applied to everyone and not saying any of it as an attempt to refute the evidence provided but rather a composite explanation of it. You are Makoto in your explanations. I am the game. I am not literally the game, that is my point of reference.
    I was going to ask if that's what you were referring to. Yeah, Makoto has 2 (?) extra frames of hit and throw invincibility if she remains neutral from wake up. Only those 2 are negated when movement or a button press happens.

    I just got caught up in the movement negates... phrase. I wouldn't expect Karakusa to work in those situations, I'm actually glad it doesn't.

    yay /misunderstanding
    Good advice. Just tested it and yeah, sMK beats whatever they do sans Super or EX Upkicks with Yun. As I thought it was just online being dumb.
    Bad lag definitely causes some meaties to get mashed out of. Can't count the amount of times Makoto's meaty st.Strong has been Jabbed, it's annoying, but I can only hope that the patch will remedy this at least somewhat.
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    n'est pas not sans

    6wyD9.png

    Shut your whore-mouth Frenchie.
    STOMP!
  • ryan.ryan. Joined: Posts: 1,918
    Lenin,

    The whole point of this discussion, jak's video, and esn's demonstration isn't to learn how to beat meaty karakusa or how to grab wake up super.

    This discussion is about throw invulnerability on wakeup. Everyone has it and there is a way to take advantage of it. It is common knowledge in Japan now about the throw invulnerability frames. This is called guard jump. What people do now is guard for 6 frames on wake up and then jump after. What this does is you will guard meaties and then not get karakusad (or any other kind of command or regular throw). This isn't a 100% safe choice but it takes care of two options if done correctly and can take out the "guessing" factor of playing vs Makoto. It also creates a whole new meta game but that's another can of worms.

    You need to take a chill pill man. Drink some beers and smoke a lil blunt. It's really wack to get so offended and heated. This is 2012!! Get rid of that "I'm better than you" attitude and you will find yourself a better person and player. IMO this was SoCals biggest problem with the scene and really held back a lot of peoples potential.

    SoCal 3rd Strike is not infallible. There are other people in this world who love and study 3rd Strike as much as you do. There are still new things being discovered and shared amongst us all. So get out under that SoCal rock and fight for the future!
  • IglooBobIglooBob Bob the builder Joined: Posts: 4,039
    that sounds interesting. so say you're playing against Makoto and you guard jump. if she expects it I assume she can low short you to keep you on the ground, then get the hayate and SA1 if she's playing that super. that's how it works, right? and presumably Chun and the shotos can low forward you with the appropriate super in the same situation if they time it right and know what you're going to do.
  • SesshaZLSesshaZL 春麗 豪鬼 Joined: Posts: 1,028
    if you get hit during a jump on wakeup, you pop up and get reset...the hayate/supers would whiff
    50/50 post Hyoukusen mixup is dirty!!
    Way more dangerous than outsiders perspective, "low forward super, yawn, I play better games" - WTF-AKUMA-HAX
  • GaijinblazeGaijinblaze fingerlicans Joined: Posts: 2,517 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    if the hayate hits you in the prejump frames, you'll be stuck on the ground. and you'll be crouching for added damage unless you're yun or yang.
    This message will self-destruct.
  • ryan.ryan. Joined: Posts: 1,918
    Gonna' ask here just in case:

    .

    Oops. This post reminded me you asked the same question to me before. I started to reply you but couldn't finish. Then it totally slipped my mind until now. Sorry dude.
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    i like seeing my name in the credits
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  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Oops. This post reminded me you asked the same question to me before. I started to reply you but couldn't finish. Then it totally slipped my mind until now. Sorry dude.

    It's cool.
    STOMP!
  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    @ESN , or anybody...

    After a Karakusa, if you remain neutral and delay a hit, you move backwards, but if you were to hold back (for example) and delay the hit, you only move backwards like 2 pixels. This can cause certain combos not to connect, like neutral delayed st.Strong->st.Short (depends on character). I ask because I toyed around with Karakusa-> (held direction) delayed Fierce-> RH SA2 on Chun before the finding the double Fukiage, but the combo doesn't work at certain distances if you aren't neutral before the Fierce. I doubt this is of any use really, just curious.

    Does this have the same properties as t.Fierce in GJ?

    BTW, there are some really gimmicky setups that only work on certain characters if you remain neutral.
  • WTF-AKUMA-HAXWTF-AKUMA-HAX DBGT non canon > maxxvatar OVA Joined: Posts: 17,881
    :lovin: just saying, this thread is pretty much all about understanding and dissecting the abstract without regard to practicality

    and hey if you get there early lets still play a friendly set before the crowd gets there and it becomes a spectacle
    $10 on flannel!
    $15 on beanie

    I think this is how you bet roullette, you get your x3 winnings to cover that you bet 2 times & win like 1 bet total unless those 0:00 assholes comeup... I shouldn't gamble, ever.
    It was pretty tight that automated one @ imperial palace kept giving back my money because I didn't bet enough if I even bet in time. Thought I was winning even... :[

    Touch screen so slow, those things are wack.
    & then you gals show up wearing the same dress as your rival. "You... bitch!" how dare you, etc.


    ...

    "Shaka-netz," Ryu hoops too. On that NBA jam bootleg thing machine from Japanz behind P2.
    1999 = "A Game with Parries isn't Street Fighter"
    2016 = "Releasing a Complete Game isn't Street Fighter"
    You wouldn't even understand if I told you.
    People will forget what you said.
    People will forget what you did.
    But, people will never forget how you made them feel.

  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177

    I used to live in Colorado Springs. It was awesome. Very liberal despite the huge amount of churches. Being an hour away from Denver was nice but it would always take about 2 hours because of traffic. When I was there pot was legalized (like an ounce) in Denver only but I'm no pothead so never really took advantage of it. The weather in Colorado was great too, a little wacky but rarely ever went to 20 degrees. It also had low taxes and you didn't have to get your car inspected every year. Upstate NY sucks.
    STOMP!
  • MarbleMarble エバラ HUGOOO Joined: Posts: 321
    Q1: If Hugo 360s while Ibuki while she's dashing through him and 360s, it always whiffs. If he 720s it always connects. At least, based on my time in training mode. Why is this?

    Q2: The other day I anti-aired someone with only one hit of Ibuki's close roundhouse and it caused them to reset. Every time I try in training mode, I cannot get cl. RH AA to reset, what are the conditions?
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    1/ you should be able to grab her, with 360/720/throw/meatsquasher.
  • WTF-AKUMA-HAXWTF-AKUMA-HAX DBGT non canon > maxxvatar OVA Joined: Posts: 17,881
    Do you remember anything about them being in the air before your hit? Maybe a Demon Flip without choosing the secondary move or perhaps something else?
    1999 = "A Game with Parries isn't Street Fighter"
    2016 = "Releasing a Complete Game isn't Street Fighter"
    You wouldn't even understand if I told you.
    People will forget what you said.
    People will forget what you did.
    But, people will never forget how you made them feel.

  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    Q1: If Hugo 360s while Ibuki while she's dashing through him and 360s, it always whiffs. If he 720s it always connects. At least, based on my time in training mode. Why is this?

    Q2: The other day I anti-aired someone with only one hit of Ibuki's close roundhouse and it caused them to reset. Every time I try in training mode, I cannot get cl. RH AA to reset, what are the conditions?

    1. If Ibuki's sprite is hovering over the front half of your sprite, you'll grab. Otherwise, you'll whiff. It's likely you're just mistiming your attack or that ibuki is baiting your grab with a "frame trap". Maybe safe dashing is more precise.

    2. You may have with the back of the hitbox or below the knee once she was already extending her leg. I don't know exactly but I think I recall her top hit box during AA being the knockdown state one and her bending knee hitbox during AA being the regular hit one. When you hit them off the ground with it, I think it's still the bending knee one that lifts them and thus sends them into the extended hitbox by privilege of the "Apex rule". Which is that you can combo after any attack, whether it be a juggle or regular attack, due to some quirk the game has regarding when your hitbox actually disappears. To put it into perspective, check the Akuma tatsu juggles. Notice how after the initial lk tatsu most Akuma's will jab then quickly cancel into hk tatsu or hp srk. It's that same idea. Akuma jab should reset but due to this "apex rule" you can quickly cancel and still manage to hit. Air reset to Super is different, though.
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  • GaspGasp | | | | | Joined: Posts: 4,611
    if you think I think you're unskilled you're wrong. I've probably spoken about your strengths as a player more than most

    same

    lenin: i might be down for ffa this weekend.
    Lunchtime Shopper
  • MarbleMarble エバラ HUGOOO Joined: Posts: 321
    1. If Ibuki's sprite is hovering over the front half of your sprite, you'll grab. Otherwise, you'll whiff. It's likely you're just mistiming your attack or that ibuki is baiting your grab with a "frame trap". Maybe safe dashing is more precise.
    That makes sense, though it's just weird that I got 360 to whiff literally every single time (while Ibuki was in the middle of her dash, not counting when she was stopped) but I couldn't get gigas to whiff at all. Also it's strange that Ibuki's dash isn't actually off the ground like I assumed.
    2. You may have with the back of the hitbox or below the knee once she was already extending her leg. I don't know exactly but I think I recall her top hit box during AA being the knockdown state one and her bending knee hitbox during AA being the regular hit one. When you hit them off the ground with it, I think it's still the bending knee one that lifts them and thus sends them into the extended hitbox by privilege of the "Apex rule". Which is that you can combo after any attack, whether it be a juggle or regular attack, due to some quirk the game has regarding when your hitbox actually disappears. To put it into perspective, check the Akuma tatsu juggles. Notice how after the initial lk tatsu most Akuma's will jab then quickly cancel into hk tatsu or hp srk. It's that same idea. Akuma jab should reset but due to this "apex rule" you can quickly cancel and still manage to hit. Air reset to Super is different, though.
    Haha, of course. The hit that connected must've been the first one in the move. That possibility didn't even cross my mind.
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    same

    lenin: i might be down for ffa this weekend.

    gogogogo FRIDAY
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    That makes sense, though it's just weird that I got 360 to whiff literally every single time (while Ibuki was in the middle of her dash, not counting when she was stopped) but I couldn't get gigas to whiff at all. Also it's strange that Ibuki's dash isn't actually off the ground like I assumed.

    Haha, of course. The hit that connected must've been the first one in the move. That possibility didn't even cross my mind.

    Ibuki's hurtbox is off the ground, so she can dash over cr. shorts and such, but her grab box is still grounded.

    I think maybe the gigas not whiffing has something to do with the super flash itself and how it places the characters again to make sure it has everything right. I think, btw, this is just experience so I could certainly be wrong. It might also be due to your character simply not turning around on time. Like, you press grab when you see her at the middle point but inherent input lag, I believe it's 2 on arc, and then tacking on OE lag (+3 or so) might make the timings different than what would make sense.
    Ex: Ibuki =
    , Hugo = ~~~~~~~
    Let's assume our chars are always facing one other
    Let's also assume Ibuki's grabbable box is within the 6 front marks there.
    Let's say Hugo's grabbing is also within the front four and 3 beyond that.
    Let's say combat moves 1 pixel distance, or one marker, per frame unless otherwise stated.
    So if you were holding forward you'd move 1 pixel for every frame of animation.


    Start!
    .......................................~~~~~~~.......
    ................................
    Ibuki's dash starts and moves rather quickly but slowly comes to a halt so, for the sake of argument I'll say her dash moves for like 15 frames. They are f1 f2 f3 f4 f5 f6 f7 f8 f9 f10 f11 f12 f13 f14 f15, and at each f we have a value representing the number of pixels she moves during that frame 1 being the slowest. We map it out as such:
    f1 f2 f3 f4 f5 f6 f7 f8 f9 f10 f11 f12 f13 f14 f15
    1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3 3 3 2 1
    total pixels moved 23

    Ibuki's Sprite takes up 7 pixels, as does Hugo's. And between there is a space of 5 pixels.

    .......................................~~~~~~~.....
    ................................
    if you were to dash from here with Ibuki (pictured right), assuming nothing goes wrong and you dash from the spot you stand, you would end up like this:

    Here they are still far away, he could just be getting up, or she could just be trying to surprise cross up
    01......................................~~~~~~~....
    ....................................

    going... ( Arc) f3, result = whiff OE) f5, result = grab )
    02......................................~~~~~~~...
    .....................................

    going...* ( Arc) f4, result = grab OE) f6, result = grab )
    03......................................~~~~~~~..
    ......................................

    going.. (by now she is grabbable, let's call it point g. If you were to press grab at point g here, the actual grabbing would occur at Arc) f5 result = grab OE) f7 because grabs take two frames to start up result = grab
    04......................................~~~~~~~.
    .......................................

    going... ( g point here at Arc) f6 result = grab ; OE) f8 result = grab )
    05......................................~~~~~~~
    ........................................

    going... ( g point here at Arc) f7 result = grab OE) f9 result = grab )
    06......................................~~~~~~
    ...........................................

    going... ( g point here at Arc) f8 result = grab OE) f10 result = grab )
    07......................................~~~~~
    .............................................

    going... ( g point here at Arc) f9 result = grab OE) f11 result = whiff )
    08......................................~~~~
    ...............................................

    going... ( g point here at Arc) f10 result = grab OE) f12 result = grab** )
    09......................................~~~
    .................................................

    going... ( g point here at Arc) f11 result = grab** OE) f14 result = whiff )
    10......................................~
    .....................................................

    going... ( g point here at Arc) f12 result = grab OE) f17 result = whiff )
    11....................................
    ~~~~.................................................

    going... ( g point here at Arc) f13 result = whiff OE) f20 result = whiff )
    12.................................
    ~~~~~~~..............................................

    going... ( g point here at Arc) f14 result = whiff OE) f23 result = whiff )
    13..............................
    ...~~~~~~~..............................................

    going... ( g point here at Arc) f15 result = whiff OE) f25 result = whiff )
    14............................
    .....~~~~~~~..............................................

    going... ( g point here at Arc) f16 result = whiff OE) f27 result = whiff )
    15...........................
    ......~~~~~~~..............................................

    .
    .
    .

    etc.

    ** = beacuse Hugo turns around by this time.

    Nitpick at my math, I don't care. What I'm trying to show you here isn't that I know the frame counts it's that Hugo's grabs, including super, probably, apply the correctStance() routine at the first frame of the grab and don't correct themselves, excluding super, causing whiffs. Super is only able to "correct" itself because it is super and has that super flash screen freeze.

    Edit: add 2 to all of my numbers and just imagine the 7 pixels that you aren't looking at the cropped screen but rather the full extent of the level. I forgot to include input lag that of which I'm starting to think doesn't exist in 3s. I don't know, when I look at it as numbers and shit, the feeling and the experience just don't add up.
    8tROOXi.png
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    lol if you scroll down the page and focus on only the Ibuki, it really kinda does look like she's dashing.
    8tROOXi.png
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    when you land from an empty demon flip, can you block like you can from landing from an empty jump? like say you demon flip out the corner vs ken, you land an empty flip, but fall onto kens cmk, are you able to block? it seems like it but I dont know if my opponent is just too slow
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    when you land from an empty demon flip, can you block like you can from landing from an empty jump? like say you demon flip out the corner vs ken, you land an empty flip, but fall onto kens cmk, are you able to block? it seems like it but I dont know if my opponent is just too slow
    You're not safe if Ken times it right, which is one reason certain demon flip mixups vs Ken aren't very safe IMO, especially if they reversal Shoryuken.
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