The System Mechanics Thread

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  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    Damn, you described exactly what i tried without any success. (fba though)

    You can use macrolua scripts with fba-rr, to write your inputs down. Not hard to learn.
    Or just save a state with P2 starting to throw out a meaty fireball from other side of the screen with ryu after a raw SA1, so you can load the state and still got enough time to prepare for LL.
    So an update...

    Vertical charge plus parry works perfect! (OE thus far...)

    You have to charge (of course lol), then input :u: BEFORE the parry then press the desired button, both down and forward parry work. Tested with Urien and Remy, will test with Alex, Oro and Chun in a bit. (But I'm pretty sure those will work.) The timing is much more lenient than parry LL too!

    Thanks for the suggestion of the full screen fireball, I'll try that in a second and see if I can get it to work there!

    EDIT: So both parry LL and D/U charge moves work the way I said after parry in FBA! I'll finish making the videos, then make a new post here.
  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    So an update...

    Vertical charge plus parry works perfect! (OE thus far...)

    You have to charge (of course lol), then input :u: BEFORE the parry then press the desired button, both down and forward parry work. Tested with Urien and Remy, will test with Alex, Oro and Chun in a bit. (But I'm pretty sure those will work.) The timing is much more lenient than parry LL too!

    This is awesome as much as it is counterintuitive. Can't wait to master that and use some parry into EX Headbutt in a real match :D
    gooby plz
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    ...dude, that sounds so dope. I want to try this out. Telesniper, you've boosted my Urien gimmicks ten fold! Now I have...ten Urien tricks. 8)
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    So an update...

    Vertical charge plus parry works perfect! (OE thus far...)

    You have to charge (of course lol), then input :u: BEFORE the parry then press the desired button, both down and forward parry work. Tested with Urien and Remy, will test with Alex, Oro and Chun in a bit. (But I'm pretty sure those will work.) The timing is much more lenient than parry LL too!

    Thanks for the suggestion of the full screen fireball, I'll try that in a second and see if I can get it to work there!

    EDIT: So both parry LL and D/U charge moves work the way I said after parry in FBA! I'll finish making the videos, then make a new post here.
    Oh ok, misunderstandings for the D/U charge moves thing. It indeed works like you said, but i wasn't thinking anymore about a wakeup situation for the parry instant tackle/dash punch.
    It works for you cause you're still on wakeup state while inputting up so, you actually validate motion (charge down + up) before parry, now just waiting for parry to commit special with K.
    But, without anything to hide the 'up' input, you shouldn't be able to do this while standing with a full charge ready, inputting up will make you...jump.
    I wrote 'shouldn't' cause now i'm waiting for your counter test :d
    My bad, should have been clearer, and also, i actually gave you a pretty bad example regarding this, as i didn't think about it.

    For the LL test, you're also right, i didn't think about this way of buffering the parry during latest frames of wakeup. I'm not really sure how this works, seems to involve strange wakeup properties and/or negative edge.
    On a side note, with this way of doing it, you're still dependant of the reset bar status, so you can't be sure of the result.

    Btw, props for those tests on OE (and on FBA), the examples you gave me need really tight execution.
  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    snip
    Of course you would jump.... :wink2: hehe

    Yes, hiding the inputs will be key for sure, on OE I already red parried Ken's Strong->Fierce to EX Headbutt, very tight timing but very awesome looking!

    I think this will actually be useful for Urien as you can buffer the up input at the end of a normal then guess parry, then input Jab/2p... even if you don't parry, the Headbutt will still come out for that whiff to grab attempt or Headbutt will hit.

    I'm pretty sure for LL it's negative edge as I couldn't get it to work unless I let go of kick = / Also, yeah I know that about the reset bar, a couple of my set-ups were screwed because of it...

    Anyway, the video is rendering now, finally... I had to take a break and watch my team get it's ass kicked :mad: . Funny enough, it took longer for me to find "arrows" to use in the text than making the rest of the video.... So with any luck, I'll post the video in a few minutes.
  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365


    That was quick....
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    Seriously, this is an amazing discovery. Sure it gives Chun more options, but it also opens up some new possibilities for other characters. Better method for Alex to close in on projectile characters, and better corner escape measures for Urien.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,700
    i guess that's why the timing has a weird feeling.
    i would try it and then only get it right half the time. i just assumed my timing was off or i threw in an extra input or something.

    nice to have an explanation.
    Play more.
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Better method for Alex to close in on projectile characters, and better corner escape measures for Urien.

    It's a cool discovery but I don't think it's going to help Alex much against the Shoto's and Remy. If they're playing keepaway then charging a Stomp is a good idea but a good player will get in there and stay at about midscreen range. If they're close enough and combo into regular Hadou on block that's an easy EX Shoulder punish. Doesn't work on Remy though but Alex already kinda' destroys Remy. And if they confirm into EX Hadou or do it at just the right range where he can't punish with EX Shoulder the Stomp has enough startup and EX has that kind of recovery where he can't punish them in time. And he can't parry the first hit of EX and do it because he will still get hit (I think) if he does Stomp.

    Really doubt Urien will do a midscreen LP fireball.
    STOMP!
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    It's a cool discovery but I don't think it's going to help Alex much against the Shoto's and Remy. If they're playing keepaway then charging a Stomp is a good idea but a good player will get in there and stay at about midscreen range. If they're close enough and combo into regular Hadou on block that's an easy EX Shoulder punish. Doesn't work on Remy though but Alex already kinda' destroys Remy. And if they confirm into EX Hadou or do it at just the right range where he can't punish with EX Shoulder the Stomp has enough startup and EX has that kind of recovery where he can't punish them in time. And he can't parry the first hit of EX and do it because he will still get hit (I think) if he does Stomp.

    If you think Stomp won't help, just red parry that shit into EX Elbow.
    Really doubt Urien will do a midscreen LP fireball.

    I doubt you've played much against keepaway Uriens.
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    If you think Stomp won't help, just red parry that shit into EX Elbow.
    .

    Actually no, that won't help either. Unless they confirm into EX Hadou at point blank, you still cannot punish it.
    STOMP!
  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782


    That was quick....
    thanks for the vid but I still can't do it. even recorded 2p chun doing it post houyoku so that way the gauge for it should be no problem. :/

    I've got the down charge one a few times. Seems too hard/impractical so far though.
    かかってきな。
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    Well unless they absolutely predict the EX Elbow, it's a safe enough move to try and push them back. From that range some players might try to dash in so the Elbow has a chance at catching them. Either way, little risk involved when blocked.
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Well unless they absolutely predict the EX Elbow,, it's a safe enough move to try and push them back.


    Unless it's Ken with Super loaded ;) .
    STOMP!
  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    cool discovery but I think it's too impractical and low return for the risk.

    have you any of you guys tried it before discussing if it "opens doors"?
    かかってきな。
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    cool discovery but I think it's too impractical and low return for the risk.

    have you any of you guys tried it before discussing if it "opens doors"?

    I don't have a means of trying it, but just the fact that it's out there is very exciting and it honestly could open up some new possibilities if someone takes the time to master it. Call me naive, I'm just being optimistic.
  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    I don't think this will be revolutionary or anything, the fact that you can't do this without hiding the up input obviously hurts it's usefulness, but I do think this can be utilized more often in match play with Urien, for sure, but the others......

    Alex can just reversal Stomp out of low LoVs, but the only thing I've done with it that looked interesting at least was red parry EX LoV into EX Stomp, lolol

    Chun... If you mess up LL but still get the parry, st.RH is still an option if you continue to press it. SBK is useless with this unless you want to delay EX SBK on wake-up..

    Oro, for him it's just...

    Remy, it could be used on wake-up instead of using an EX Flashkick... Or by Shima haha

    This can still be charge partitioned of course, but it makes even that harder = / I'd love to see someone dash up parry Gouki st.Forward into EX Headbutt.. etc in a match though, that shit was tough.
    EDIT:
    thanks for the vid but I still can't do it. even recorded 2p chun doing it post houyoku so that way the gauge for it should be no problem. :/

    I've got the down charge one a few times. Seems too hard/impractical so far though.

    It feels like the same timing as a reversal without double tapping IMO. You parry and press the 5th kick at the same time, then release shortly after, I don't know for sure if it's 1 frame, but I doubt it. I was doing it too often for that it be one frame.
  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    am I right in assuming that since the gauge for storing LLs is constantly moving that no matter if you do it correctly sometimes it just won't work?

    Edit: did hitting the kick button 5 times always reset the gauge?
    かかってきな。
  • IglooBobIglooBob Bob the builder Joined: Posts: 4,039
    so say you did this on the other guy's wakeup, and time your 5th leg input at the same time as your forward or down parry. does this afford you anything interesting that just going for SGGK does not?
  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    am I right in assuming that since the gauge for storing LLs is constantly moving that no matter if you do it correctly sometimes it just won't work?

    Edit: did hitting the kick button 5 times always reset the gauge?

    Yeah, rarely it just won't work. You could be 2 presses in and then the gauge resets, making you have to input 5 again, but that doesn't happen that often.

    So long as you hit the same kick 5 times, I think it resets the bar for that kick only, though I may be mistaken... So you could technically press the kick 5 times, then 4, then parry+kick, but the same thing applies with the bar resetting during you pressing those 5 too = / (take this with a grain of salt, as I don't normally play Chun)
    so say you did this on the other guy's wakeup, and time your 5th leg input at the same time as your forward or down parry. does this afford you anything interesting that just going for SGGK does not?
    hmm... I doubt it. SGGK clearly seems like the best option, though it is fun to parry into Short LL and confirm into SA2 for pitiful damage... Well, in comparison to normal hitconfirm SA2 = /
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    am I right in assuming that since the gauge for storing LLs is constantly moving that no matter if you do it correctly sometimes it just won't work?

    Edit: did hitting the kick button 5 times always reset the gauge?
    Yep.
    Strictly speaking, yes. But, you know you resetted it but still don't know when and how many charge you got after.
    ex: if you try to do 5 K in a row while you already got 2 charge, you'll reset the bar after 3 K inputs and end up with 2 (or maybe 1, one may be lost during reset, don't remember).
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347


    That was quick....
    Very nice vid!
    What do you use for video editing?
  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    Very nice vid!
    What do you use for video editing?
    Thanks!

    I had to use Sony Vegas, normally I would just use Windows Live Movie Maker, but it won't recognize the codec of my 3S recordings... (Neither will Vegas, I have to re-record them with Daum Pot Player, then edit with Vegas... if I had used WLMM instead, it would end up very pixelated.)
  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    according to the 3rdstrike bot on twitter, moves like remys rugure and Elenas rhihorn are harder to parry because they are considered jump in moves. (anti air parry is more difficult because its 5 frame window)

    interesting
    かかってきな。
  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    It's not a match vid and it's not OE... I guess this can go here?

    I don't know if the dash input thing is old, but I guess this explains why shaking the stick for stun, throws and Denjin is faster with diagonals... also why Shoryu shortcut works... but you need to return the stick to neutral for it to recount as a toward/back input.
  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Lovely vid. I took the liberty of twitting it to RX! (I spedcified that it's your work of course!)
    gooby plz
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,700
    according to the 3rdstrike bot on twitter, moves like remys rugure and Elenas rhihorn are harder to parry because they are considered jump in moves. (anti air parry is more difficult because its 5 frame window)

    interesting

    sick bit of info.
    Play more.
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    Sounds like someone learned how to kara demon!
    8tROOXi.png
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Okay here's a decent question -probably not a good question though but call me curious-

    Say I do stMK and confirm into Alex's SA2 which has 3 frame startup. They parry the stMK, obviously if they throw my SA2 will beat it. But how many frames do they have after the parry to confirm? Do they have enough time to low forward super ala Chun? If they parried and dide raw super (lets say a super with bad startup) like Akuma/Ryu SA1 or Chun SA2, would it still beat my SA2?
    STOMP!
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    In the words of Sanchez, first hit of Boomerang Raid is completely unfuckwithable. They would have to predict that you're either going to do SA2 or not and just guess whether or not to attack.
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Interesting. So even if Dud parries and does raw SA3 (with 1 frame startup) Alex's SA2 beats it?
    STOMP!
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    Interesting. So even if Dud parries and does raw SA3 (with 1 frame startup) Alex's SA2 beats it?

    I've seen Alex parry a normal by Akuma. The Akuma canceled into SA1, Alex immediately did SA2.

    SA1 just completely zipped right through Alex while he was doing Boomerang Raid.
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    eh, Gouki SA1 gives no invincibility, not really surprising.

    I think the Dud SA3 example would just have to do with which character ran out of invincibility frames first.
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    eh, Gouki SA1 gives no invincibility, not really surprising.

    I think the Dud SA3 example would just have to do with which character ran out of invincibility frames first.

    I don't mean Gouki SA1 has no invincibility, I'm talking about it going THROUGH Alex while doing Raid.


    0:05
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    I just saw that vid yesterday.

    Dunno how legit it is but I remember I did SA2 on wakeup and it went right through Denjin (no parrying required).

    And that makes two Alex players whose real name is Alex.
    STOMP!
  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    God damn that's a lot of effort in a video haha. did Sanchez get on that cross tekken show?
    かかってきな。
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,700
    louis, i consider myself a nice guy, but really.
    JUST GO TO ESN'S FRAMEDATA SITE.

    load up sa2 and GO LOOK FOR YOURSELF.
    notice he has no hittable box during the first punch of sa2.
    Play more.
  • OMG its a duckOMG its a duck Bruh I'm in down bad bruh Joined: Posts: 1,920
    Pretty much every question Louis ever asks is answerable by just testing it himself, or looking at ESN's site.
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    God damn that's a lot of effort in a video haha. did Sanchez get on that cross tekken show?

    From what I heard, he submitted the video after the deadline was finished. lol
  • MarbleMarble エバラ HUGOOO Joined: Posts: 321
    Interesting. So even if Dud parries and does raw SA3 (with 1 frame startup) Alex's SA2 beats it?
    That would depend on how many frames Alex is stuck in parry freeze for and how many start-up frames are in corkscrew blow. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head but you could work it out by looking at the frame data. Basically, the only Dudley can win in that situation is if he does the move on the first possible frame and the first active frame comes out while Alex is still in parry freeze. Otherwise boomerang raid will fuck up anything Dudley can cancel into.
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