The System Mechanics Thread

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  • DeemoDeemo Joined: Posts: 466
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Raep.
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  • djdjwdjdjw GGPO's son Joined: Posts: 281
    Hey telesniper do you know any frame info about supers/special moves after kill? I hope you understand..for example..a cr short is the killing attack..then while the opponent is falling slowly a super/special move comes out..
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  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    edited February 2013
    djdjw said:
    Hey telesniper do you know any frame info about supers/special moves after kill? I hope you understand..for example..a cr short is the killing attack..then while the opponent is falling slowly a super/special move comes out..

    It's just a one frame window, you have to cancel into the special/super on the exact frame your move connects on. This is easier with piano'ing of course.
  • djdjwdjdjw GGPO's son Joined: Posts: 281
    lol i knew youd know..thx :P
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  • circle mashercircle masher Joined: Posts: 396
    Deemo wrote: »


    Anyone know if Hugo can get out of this setup?
    Okay finally tested this properly. It's a superb trap against Hugo. If the st.mp is timed and placed just right and the strong Stungun is timed correctly then to my knowledge Hugo only has two options: Hammer Mountain (reliable and easy) or Gigas (tricky). Hammer makes total mincemeat of the trap and catches Alex standing for full damage plus it requires zero effort. Gigas has to be timed for the super freeze to occur on the frame Alex touches the ground, frame earlier and Stungun wins. Megaton and EX Lariat get ruined.
  • djdjwdjdjw GGPO's son Joined: Posts: 281
    Just to confirm...Alex is the only character that cant be hit with 2 shoryus of any form by ken in one combo without the character jumping right?
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  • GaijinblazeGaijinblaze fingerlicans Joined: Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    and dudley
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  • djdjwdjdjw GGPO's son Joined: Posts: 281
    edited March 2013
    on dudley in the corner u can jump in ex tatsu shoryu-> ex shoryu ;) ...found that out earlier
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  • djdjwdjdjw GGPO's son Joined: Posts: 281
    does anyone know how to show colored hitboxes in FBA-rr with lua scripting? i have the hitbox script but its only blue boxes..
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  • 1der1der Boy in the Da Corner Joined: Posts: 461
    Interesting. So even if Dud parries and does raw SA3 (with 1 frame startup) Alex's SA2 beats it?
    Yes...most likely. I say most likely because there probably are variables that I'm not taking into account or situations I just haven't seen. Based upon the situation you present I would say Alex sa2 will beat Dudley SA3. Dudley SA3 is good in terms of being a trump card, it wins in a great many scenarios, but there are also situations where it loses. Specific things that I'm thinking of include getting swallowed up by a Chun kara-throw, Makoto's Karakusa, Alex's SA2 and the head butt command throw normal, versus Yang's SA2-Yang SA2 goes under the hit box.
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  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,702
    yeah he has sweet invincibility on the startup of sa2. that first punch is going to beat basically anything.
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  • djdjwdjdjw GGPO's son Joined: Posts: 281
    ok guys so i'm fed up with this parry throw crap..whether it's someone wakeup guessing or me baiting a parry it seems that throw beats a ton of moves, including some supers. When I do for instance, cl mp then try to cancel into shoryu on reaction to a parry, why does parry throw beat that? is it because im cancelling into shoryu too late? also does a parry change the input timing of a normal cancelled into a special? thanks :)
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  • JAK..JAK.. Joined: Posts: 544
    djdjw wrote: »
    ok guys so i'm fed up with this parry throw crap..whether it's someone wakeup guessing or me baiting a parry it seems that throw beats a ton of moves, including some supers. When I do for instance, cl mp then try to cancel into shoryu on reaction to a parry, why does parry throw beat that? is it because im cancelling into shoryu too late? also does a parry change the input timing of a normal cancelled into a special? thanks :)

    Throw would be free assuming they are in throw range as parrying a fwd/strong leaves them at +3. You would need to use meaty fp os shoryu or try to bait throw more to punish (walk, dash back, etc).

    Change the timing... well it gives you more time to cancel into the special (due to the parry freeze)
  • djdjwdjdjw GGPO's son Joined: Posts: 281
    ahh i understand..thanks Anyone know if there is a reference of the 3s juggle properties anywhere online? i know theres a point system but how do you know what attack is how many points?
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  • IglooBobIglooBob Bob the builder Joined: Posts: 4,039
    cool, I've been wondering as well.

    though that leads me to a related question - lets take Kens standing close strong. 5 star was saying in his thread that he uses that and then buffers shoryu behind it to punish wakeup guessers IIRC. but if they just wakeup parry and throw, will that beat out his buffered shoryu?
  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    edited April 2013
    I don't remember for sure but I think fierce shoryu beats throws in this situation but not jab shoryu. (At least after a parried fierce punch.)
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  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,702
    edited April 2013
    well the thing is also they aren't going to know what you're going to do.
    they will also be thinking about what they can do since they see the parry is successful and want to capitalize.

    throw works but throw is also the worst way to capitalize on a successful parry.

    so we come back, again, to the same guessing game as is always going on. you don't know if he will shoryu but shoryu is an option. if you choose to do anything but throw, block or probably some supers, you are going to get hit by a shoryu.

    he's not talking about some absolute situation i don't think because they pretty much do not exist in an actual fight. because you are always unsure what your opponent is going to do. if you're going to throw me every time you parry me...i'm ok with that. because you're going to be gaining very little every time you guess.
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  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    edited April 2013
    urien back throw into corner hurts ~_~
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • IglooBobIglooBob Bob the builder Joined: Posts: 4,039
    cool, thanks to both of you. that makes a lot of sense.
  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    edited April 2013
    Going to explain this without going on a tangent.

    when you parry high vs ken its tricky. besides the guess after parrying st hp or st mp into shoryu, he has his mp hp TC.

    this scenario can be difficult because you have to make a commitment. I have seen many times where japanese players end up parrying st hp, or st mp and end up not punishing. if you watch the nuki vs boss ken set. there's many times where nuki parries (probably parry jump) and blocks. boss ends up doing TC and maintains offensive pressure.

    If you take the risk of parry of course you want to get optimal damage but I think this is a situation where you should not. either block, retaliate with quick normal or maybe keep parrying. hard to say but worth thinking about.


    ----

    Edit: kinda said what Tebbo said but in different words I guess.

    anyway, this scenario is difficult for even nuki as you can see in the nuki vs boss set. he later starts to use 1 parry shoryu to retaliate which is smart of him.
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  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    Man I can't remember but if urien parries st mp, can he retaliate with cr hp or does TC beat that? I know if urien parries kens cr lk ken's cr lp will beat uriens cr hp. (-。-;

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  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,702
    urien's low fierce is pretty slow and i think ken can cancel from mp to fierce without having to wait till the very end of mp.
    so i imagine low fierce won't work there.
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  • JAK..JAK.. Joined: Posts: 544
    The second hit of ken's tc is quite quick for what it is. It beats Makoto's karakusa to the punch which is quite a bit faster then Urien's cr FP.

    djdjw wrote: »
    ahh i understand..thanks Anyone know if there is a reference of the 3s juggle properties anywhere online? i know theres a point system but how do you know what attack is how many points?

    I know it exists on some sites although I do not recall seeing it on any sites that are in english.



  • djdjwdjdjw GGPO's son Joined: Posts: 281
    someone please answer if you have time..Is there a point in a forward jumps recovery where you cant parry even if you didnt do a move? I ask because if i empty jump towards say..gouki..and im looking to parry something if he does SA1 at this said time..i get hit no matter what..whats going on here!?? it happens almost when im touching the ground..
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  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    djdjw wrote: »
    someone please answer if you have time..Is there a point in a forward jumps recovery where you cant parry even if you didnt do a move? I ask because if i empty jump towards say..gouki..and im looking to parry something if he does SA1 at this said time..i get hit no matter what..whats going on here!?? it happens almost when im touching the ground..

    It's just your timing due to online. The only times you can't air parry is when you're first leaving the ground. Otherwise you can parry pretty much anywhere in the sky.
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  • djdjwdjdjw GGPO's son Joined: Posts: 281
    edited April 2013
    that sounds good..i guess at a certain range its just really hard to parry, like in the air after the flip when your not totally straight up and down yet in about sweep range from him
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  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    djdjw wrote: »
    that sounds good..i guess at a certain range its just really hard to parry, like in the air after the flip when your not totally straight up and down yet in about sweep range from him

    Just parry low then. I think the game might skip ahead a few frames to accomodate your landing.

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  • WTF-AKUMA-HAXWTF-AKUMA-HAX DBGT non canon > maxxvatar OVA Joined: Posts: 17,937
    Whether or not its possible, that actually came up around here recently to do more with Gouki. At that situation he's really at the advantage right. He will recover and move first while you will be stuck up there hoping to parry your way out of it. That's because you know the parry freezes are much longer in total time than if you got hit with that multi hit fireball super, or anything multiple hits right?

    That goes into risk vs. reward and is it worth it to jump in, parry it all, then see a fast Tatsu on-coming in the middle which can throw off your parry timing by putting that inbetween the Super Fireball hits. Even if you learned to full parry the SA1, something like just a jab might destroy that timing and also have to be parried where you won't expect it. (If its at the same time as a Fireball hit, the same 1 parry during that time will cover both but don't expect that to happen all the time with his choice of any of his faster and slower attacks and multi hit moves like specials and command normals)

    That could be something to think about in that situation, jumping in when Akuma has the stock to Super 1 anti-air is you is a really bad idea and train yourself not to do it. Even if you have not given up your air options to a jumping attack and can still parry. It can change the situation if you have something to change your jump arc with your character like a Divekick, early in the jump Tatsu to carry you over, or maybe you're Akuma too and can air fireball as well to keep you up there out of harm's reach (but I guess that's only with a properly timed N.Jump version not jump forward). But you're not getting much out of it if they saw your jump and have a lot of time to even delay the Super to throw you off to what you are used to and expected when it was time to parry if they saw you do this before or know you want to try that. At the range you're talking about they could also Stand Strong for your first parry, Cancel to SRK to see if you want to parry some more, and Super cancel the Shoryu to give you a 3 in 1 to have fun with.

    Plus what are you trying to get by jumping at him, just getting ground to get closer or damage from a jump in combo?

    My bad to give you all this questioning if you already know it, & I know that wasn't the answer to your question, and this isn't meant to slight you. Now I have to think about the Gou Zankuu givng you any more time in the air which isn't as long a delay as ol SF2 breaks the game Akuma version, or the SF4 delay to stay up there slightly and stay above a fireball or something on a N.Jump.
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  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    ^^
    good points

    you almost put yourself in a worse position trying to parry through the sa1 and whatever Gouki throws at you while you're floating there like an idiot. if he hits you with neutral jump rh tatsu, lk tatsu, hp srk, you'll be taking pretty much the same damage, and Gouki get meter out of it.
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  • NoMoreFunlandNoMoreFunland Perfection equals obliteration! Joined: Posts: 1,229
    Maybe part of the problem with getting that first parry on a late AA super fireball from Gouki is that you already tapped toward a moment before. I recall there being a 23 frame recovery window after an attempted parry. Not sure if the window is different for air. Also it's a really fast super at 2 frames so you would have a VERY small window to parry if it got unleashed in your face.
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    Maybe part of the problem with getting that first parry on a late AA super fireball from Gouki is that you already tapped toward a moment before. I recall there being a 23 frame recovery window after an attempted parry. Not sure if the window is different for air. Also it's a really fast super at 2 frames so you would have a VERY small window to parry if it got unleashed in your face.

    nope
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  • djdjwdjdjw GGPO's son Joined: Posts: 281
    yo i noticed that when youre closer to gouki the super freeze throws off the parry timing..unlike when youre far away cause when ur far away you can see it coming and reaction parry it
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  • NoMoreFunlandNoMoreFunland Perfection equals obliteration! Joined: Posts: 1,229
    edited April 2013
    Dander wrote: »
    Maybe part of the problem with getting that first parry on a late AA super fireball from Gouki is that you already tapped toward a moment before. I recall there being a 23 frame recovery window after an attempted parry. Not sure if the window is different for air. Also it's a really fast super at 2 frames so you would have a VERY small window to parry if it got unleashed in your face.

    nope

    So then you can just mash toward in the air and catch a parry? Explain the dynamic of the 3s system that stops that kind of thing from being easy.
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    Dander wrote: »
    Maybe part of the problem with getting that first parry on a late AA super fireball from Gouki is that you already tapped toward a moment before. I recall there being a 23 frame recovery window after an attempted parry. Not sure if the window is different for air. Also it's a really fast super at 2 frames so you would have a VERY small window to parry if it got unleashed in your face.

    nope

    So then you can just mash toward in the air and catch a parry? Explain the dynamic of the 3s system that stops that kind of thing from being easy.

    I lack the words necessary.
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  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,702
    edited April 2013
    it's just that during parry if you input another parry it will give you the parry. and since whatever you are parrying and you are frozen at that time, as soon as stuff moves again you get the next parry, and so on. you can always parry immediately after a parry.

    if you tap forward and aren't parrying and then tap again in a short span of time, you will not get a parry you will just not be blocking.
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  • NoMoreFunlandNoMoreFunland Perfection equals obliteration! Joined: Posts: 1,229
    edited April 2013
    Just to be clear with everyone on the issue djdw was having and other in air parry questions, if you tap parry there is a no-parry recovery period of about 14 or 15 frames. This is detailed on the first page of this thread by Jinrai in his "more than you ever wanted to know about parries" post.

    So it is not possible to have a set of perfectly timed toward taps to maintain a consistent parry window.

    At least this is the case if Jinrai did his homework properly.
  • LEVALEVA I want your lamer soul Joined: Posts: 251
    Can somebody point me out to a list of all the scenarios where u cannot quickrise like after getting hit by a SA or bodyslam like oro command grab

    thanks in advance
  • djdjwdjdjw GGPO's son Joined: Posts: 281
    any news on that juggle points system move list? i wanna find some new sick dudley juggles..or any other char :P
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  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,702
    when cpu twelve x-copies ken all he fucking does is fierce shoryu.
    please go see for yourself its amazing.
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