The System Mechanics Thread

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  • NoMoreFunlandNoMoreFunland Perfection equals obliteration! Joined: Posts: 1,229
    So with meaty UOH on wake up there are a few timings that can work?

    I recall in some MOV notes that you can hit them while you're starting the UOH (can't get it to work) and then towards the end of the UOH (use most often). The idea of getting a super or SRK off the early part of the UOH is pretty attractive since better players often SRK or parry the late meatys since you can see it coming for days.
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    Rowan you keep bringing up such interesting topics!

    On that subject, I want to know if kara UOH is really necessary for connecting shoryu afterward against crouching chun, as thats what I've been lead to believe. I've noticed UOH combo into Gouki's mk tatsu before that wasn't meaty timed, and I definitely didn't do kara UOH.
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    So with meaty UOH on wake up there are a few timings that can work?

    I recall in some MOV notes that you can hit them while you're starting the UOH (can't get it to work) and then towards the end of the UOH (use most often). The idea of getting a super or SRK off the early part of the UOH is pretty attractive since better players often SRK or parry the late meatys since you can see it coming for days.

    I'm almost certain there is no way to hit with the early frames of a uoh and still hit a combo.

    I have never had a uoh parried on reaction, btw. At least not online. People tend to opt out of parrying and just jab or strong. I'm going to institute backwards karas like makotos standing roundhouse into my uohs as a wake up option. Pulls you out of grab range and jumps over non meaty lows.

    I managed to use the backwards kara grab to force whiff grab and then punish their recovering grab with my 1 frame seichusen.

    Twas the sickest thing ever.
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  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    edited May 2013
    Does anyone know if Uriens super is an exception to the rule of "Supers cancel Akuma's teleport."



    @ 23:28

    Junin teleports out of the corner and Teihee responds with fireball xx reflector yet Junin still teleports away. I distinctly remember having trapped an Akuma using Uriens super so what gives? I think he could have done it a bit later to successfully keep him in place. Would somebody mind testing this for me?

    You don't have simulate the situation, a simple akuma teleport and activate super from anywhere will suffice.
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  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    I know for a fact if timed right aegis can still stop the teleport. seems hard to time since it doesnt happen often but its def happened to me before. sorry tho I'm unable to provide proof, no rig to test it on :(
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    pherai wrote: »
    I know for a fact if timed right aegis can still stop the teleport. seems hard to time since it doesnt happen often but its def happened to me before. sorry tho I'm unable to provide proof, no rig to test it on :(
    I don't require proof, really. I was just trying to keep in tune with happenings around here. Your word is as good as gold to me for I respect you.

    Hey John, I saw those nerves get the best of you on that video. All those jump ins! It's not like you, man!

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  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    edited May 2013
    ha thank you thank you :china:

    I dunno, I think I've been a choke artist for a while, and it really came out over there. It's such a cliche, but I always feel pressure to impress the Japanese and naturally end up playing like shit because of it. Somewhere 5 Star is thinking "I told you so." Also not enough Remy practice, we need iwst back lol
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • ryan.ryan. Joined: Posts: 1,918
    Don't know if this site is well known but it's an excellent resource if you know a little Japanese or can figure it out somehow.

    http://gr.qee.jp/01_3rd/index.html
  • IglooBobIglooBob Bob the builder Joined: Posts: 4,039
    ryan. wrote: »
    Don't know if this site is well known but it's an excellent resource if you know a little Japanese or can figure it out somehow.

    http://gr.qee.jp/01_3rd/index.html

    so I ran it through google translate and have been trying to make sense of what I can (pretty difficult!). on the character rank screen, it seems like it's saying that Chun, Yun, Ken, Makoto, Yang, and Akuma are all around the same character strength and Dudley and Oro are after that. are Google Translate and I reading that correctly? it also says something about Chun and Makoto specifically but I can't make sense of it.
  • ryan.ryan. Joined: Posts: 1,918
    I'll take a look later and get back to you.
  • DeemoDeemo Joined: Posts: 466
    Yeah apparently Gouki is better than Dudley and Hugo is laughable...

    Whats going on? :/
  • ryan.ryan. Joined: Posts: 1,918
    Tbh I wasn't really recommending this site for the character strength opinion part, but more for the data/character specific stuff. :)
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    edited May 2013
    Deemo wrote: »
    Yeah apparently Gouki is better than Dudley and Hugo is laughable...

    Whats going on? :/

    Okay, Dudley needs to guess to catch a low forward or jump in. Gouki has reliable tools like the shotos (low forward) and he can jump in safely by switching up fireballs, demon flips and anything that Dudley has for jump ins.

    Dudley is all jump in and parry, but mostly defensive pokes to keep out the competition.

    If everyone can parry, you don't take it into consideration.
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  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    And Hugo has nothing but "surprising attack for a guy that size" considering that the fight doesn't start at close range. I wouldn't call it laughable, but more like in light of all the other characters' options.
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  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    djdjw wrote: »
    any news on that juggle points system move list? i wanna find some new sick dudley juggles..or any other char :P

    six juggle points
    each attack has it's own juggle point number
    supers reset juggle points (I think on hit, but it could be oh whiff too. I remember that necro video where he whiffs grab super and combos).
    If you use 6 one point attacks you can sneak in an extra hit or two by hitting them before they reach the apex of their bounce after hit.

    dudleys cr rh is 1 point
    strong, I think is like 3
    fierce depletes it
    toward roundhouse knocks down
    standing roundhouse I think 2 or 3
    toward strong I think 2
    jabs and shorts are all 1
    toward forward I think 2
    standing forward 2

    mgb 1 at the end, I don't know how to combo if any of the pre-launchers hit
    upper 4 I think
    ducking attacks 6 unless only the last hit of the kick one hits. That lets you juggle again.

    drinkg more
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  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    edited May 2013
    Dander wrote: »
    Does anyone know if Uriens super is an exception to the rule of "Supers cancel Akuma's teleport."



    @ 23:28

    Junin teleports out of the corner and Teihee responds with fireball xx reflector yet Junin still teleports away. I distinctly remember having trapped an Akuma using Uriens super so what gives? I think he could have done it a bit later to successfully keep him in place. Would somebody mind testing this for me?

    You don't have simulate the situation, a simple akuma teleport and activate super from anywhere will suffice.
    Teleport bug only happens after its "startup".
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    ESN wrote: »
    Dander wrote: »
    Does anyone know if Uriens super is an exception to the rule of "Supers cancel Akuma's teleport."



    @ 23:28

    Junin teleports out of the corner and Teihee responds with fireball xx reflector yet Junin still teleports away. I distinctly remember having trapped an Akuma using Uriens super so what gives? I think he could have done it a bit later to successfully keep him in place. Would somebody mind testing this for me?

    You don't have simulate the situation, a simple akuma teleport and activate super from anywhere will suffice.
    Teleport bug only happens after its "startup".

    So once he actually starts moving?
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  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Kinda, yes.
    Game Restaurant (Ryan's link is new version of it) says 13 frames.
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    So, kind of a system mechanics question in relation to quick rising:

    After you throw a dude (and not a throw that sends them fullscreen like Dudley's back throw or Shoto back throw) and it wasn't in the corner. Do you dash in on them as they quick rise? I tend to dash and kara or block until a see a pattern emerge in a set and they punish me. Only other thing I do is walk in and try to Sweep them.
    STOMP!
  • JAK..JAK.. Joined: Posts: 544
    Too vague a question it is character specific
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    So, kind of a system mechanics question in relation to quick rising:

    After you throw a dude (and not a throw that sends them fullscreen like Dudley's back throw or Shoto back throw) and it wasn't in the corner. Do you dash in on them as they quick rise? I tend to dash and kara or block until a see a pattern emerge in a set and they punish me. Only other thing I do is walk in and try to Sweep them.

    If they quick rise you can be grabbed or shorted, usually.
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  • djdjwdjdjw GGPO's son Joined: Posts: 281
    I've checked the dudley thread for this...anyone done any testing on a dudley crossup? I think ive only seen it done in that kysg vid..any vids or in depth tutorial in txt would be nice from anyone who knows. thanks :)
    Earned a free fightstick from that site ->... http://www.points2shop.com?ref=uin1352551523
  • GaspGasp | | | | | Joined: Posts: 4,611
    edited June 2013
    What sort of cross ups? He only has ground crossups
    http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/841604/#Comment_841604
    Ive seen a video too with information too, can't recall where tho.
    Lunchtime Shopper
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    djdjw wrote: »
    I've checked the dudley thread for this...anyone done any testing on a dudley crossup? I think ive only seen it done in that kysg vid..any vids or in depth tutorial in txt would be nice from anyone who knows. thanks :)

    all of his air normals are too far from his pushbox, even roundhouse. Well, maybe roundhouse could work against hugo or alex but they'd have to have used some stupid ass normal on the ground and way far into dudley's jump.
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  • NoMoreFunlandNoMoreFunland Perfection equals obliteration! Joined: Posts: 1,229
    Please explain the dynamics of walking and parrying. I remember that to parry a fireball while walking you have to slide the stick from toward to down/toward then neutral and then parry. Any other ways to do it?

    Also what about walking and doing a down parry? Can I just let go of toward and immediately go from neutral to down parry?
  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    edited July 2013
    Please explain the dynamics of walking and parrying. I remember that to parry a fireball while walking you have to slide the stick from toward to down/toward then neutral and then parry. Any other ways to do it?

    Also what about walking and doing a down parry? Can I just let go of toward and immediately go from neutral to down parry?

    That's not correct, well, to be more precise, you're over complicating things with that method, or remembering it in reverse as that would only work for the method vvvv there. The way to go from walk to "instant" parry, ie, "bypass" the 20+ frame reparry window, you go from df, to towards. If you were to try that too quickly from db or d, you'll dash most of the time what with the qcf (df) + N->F = Dash. From what I gather from videos, Kuroda does QCF walking all the time... Sometimes he even holds towards way earlier than most people, so that he can walk->parry quicker (or maybe he qcf'd it), specifically things like tech throws, he'll keep walking after then neutral-towards to catch highs... /tangent

    Regularly though, you just need to return from towards to neutral, then tap towards again. So long as you've been either holding towards for long enough, or you already used the parry window within that time, ex. walk forward, back then forward again, you'll be able to "reparry" seemingly sooner because that first forward was the actual parry attempt according to the game, the second was within the non-parry window, so most likely by the time you return to neutral again, that window will have elapsed.

    For walking down parry, you need to return to neutral before hand = ( Idk for sure about red parry in that case though, my tests on OE seemed like it was possible to attempt a high red parry then immediately going down resulted in a low red parry. Haven't tested frame by frame via FBA yet though, so I can't be certain I was in fact skipping neutral and going straight to down... My gut says I wasn't = /
    Post edited by telesniper on
  • ChadChad Joined: Posts: 1,291
    I have one practical question and one stupid question.

    Practical: Occasionally I will block a move or super as Oro, and try to punish with close standing mk xx command grab. Instead I get mk xx fireball because I have charge. Can I execute in such a way that I will always get mk xx grab? We can use something like a blocked SA3 from Dudley as the example.

    The answer is probably to just do st. mk xx upper instead.

    Stupid: Thinking about that video where Kuroda red parried Ryu's SA1 into gigas as Hugo- Would it be possible to do the same with Q into SA1? If so, would the proper technique be a qcf with the forward input acting as the parry, then just finishing the super motion? I feel like practicing something silly.
  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    edited July 2013
    Chad wrote: »
    I have one practical question and one stupid question.

    Practical: Occasionally I will block a move or super as Oro, and try to punish with close standing mk xx command grab. Instead I get mk xx fireball because I have charge. Can I execute in such a way that I will always get mk xx grab? We can use something like a blocked SA3 from Dudley as the example.

    The answer is probably to just do st. mk xx upper instead.

    Stupid: Thinking about that video where Kuroda red parried Ryu's SA1 into gigas as Hugo- Would it be possible to do the same with Q into SA1? If so, would the proper technique be a qcf with the forward input acting as the parry, then just finishing the super motion? I feel like practicing something silly.

    Just make sure you're doing the full HCB motion, in my attempts, I only got fireball once and I know I messed up and hit db+P instead of b+P. If you're still having difficulties, try inputting twds+Forward, then finish the HCB+P. That way works for me 100%.

    In the instance of Super Parry (or normal parry...)->Super, you actually do have a couple "options". The one you suggested wouldn't work for 2 reasons, 1. doing a HCF doesn't register a parry attempt, and 2. After a parry you appear to only have one frame in which you're previous inputs are stored, but because you would need a D and a DF+P, it wouldn't be possible either way.

    There are 2 ways to execute what you want:

    1. Buffer the Super, in this case with Q just QCFx2, hold back during the freeze and try inputting towards and all 3 punches at once, the super will come out 1 frame after the parry if executed correctly. Personally, when I'm screwing around with this mechanic, I choose to hold all 3 punches/kicks and negative edge them as I input towards.. The timing on this is also strict btw.

    2. Be fast, it's very possible to fully input the super during the parry freeze, the timing is a tad strict, but it certainly is great practice for getting a clean, fast and reliable super input.

    If you feel like acting like Kuroda, you could attempt the Red Parry->Gigas in the same manner as option 1. Parry the Shoryu (6) and input 24862, wait for the freeze, hold 4+ the 3 punches, Red Parry and release punches simultaneously and voila, you have yourself the fastest Red Parry Gigas possible = ) Note that this isn't what Kuroda did in the DVD, he just spun the stick very quickly.

    Also, Kuroda is a BOSS, he could have just Red Parried the second hit, regular parried the third, then Giga'd, Ryu still couldn't escape = )

    Post edited by telesniper on
  • ChadChad Joined: Posts: 1,291
    I really wish OE had input display.

    Not fully completing the hcb is probably the culprit; I tend to do that a lot. I will try to practice just getting the super input in there between parries with Q. Faster, more accurate super inputs are one thing I need to work on.

    Thanks!
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    Chad wrote: »
    I really wish OE had input display.

    Not fully completing the hcb is probably the culprit; I tend to do that a lot. I will try to practice just getting the super input in there between parries with Q. Faster, more accurate super inputs are one thing I need to work on.

    Thanks!
    Sorry but firsy you must be less shit at this game.

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  • ChadChad Joined: Posts: 1,291
    Oh my heart.
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    Chad wrote: »
    Oh my heart.

    Get wreckt! Thst was a good one, btw. I cracked up uplaughing for at least a chuckles worth.
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  • NoMoreFunlandNoMoreFunland Perfection equals obliteration! Joined: Posts: 1,229
    I was messing with Remy and his cl.lp > cl.lk target combo. It seems that when you hold back the lk doesn't come out. I imagine it has something to do with charge but I'm curious why exactly it happens. Any insights?
  • Darklightjg1Darklightjg1 Dr. SuessLight Joined: Posts: 3,749
    edited August 2013
    A similar situation I can think of is the twins' st. MP, st. HP, B+HP target combo. If you hold back during the first HP it won't come out. I assume it's just strict input for some target combos.

    Update: Another example is Elena's st. HP, st. HK target combo won't work if you hold back during but Ryu's will. Makoto's st. LK, st. MK won't work while holding back either. It just varies per character.

    -Does anyone know how many frames there actually are for reversal window in this game? I can't find it anywhere.
    My twitch channel (Action, Platformers, RPGs and Fighting games): twitch.tv/darklightjg1

    My Sonic hack (shameless plug): http://sonicresearch.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3938
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,704
    reversals are 1 frame afaik.
    earliest possible frame or it isn't a reversal.
    Play more.
  • NoMoreFunlandNoMoreFunland Perfection equals obliteration! Joined: Posts: 1,229
    Yeah even within the same character it varies. With Remy there is no problem holding back and doing his mk > hk target combo. Weird.
    Hadn't tested with anyone else but from what you say Darklight, seems like it wasn't to do with the charge system after all.
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    Hey Chad, make sure you go to neutral before doing mk and then do half circle. I don't want to beat the dead horse but that's what the start up frames are for. Going to neutral.
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  • NoMoreFunlandNoMoreFunland Perfection equals obliteration! Joined: Posts: 1,229
    edited September 2013
    Maybe your wording was a little off or I'm not reading it right but the 23/23/20/18 is the cool down time after a failed parry attempt during which you cannot parry again.

    Also I think this information is on the first page but seems like 1 frame has been added to all the values. Different frame counting method I assume.
    Post edited by NoMoreFunland on
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,704
    Whoa cool info. Explains why cbk is weird for people and requires pretty tight timing, so if its well spaced most just opt to block.
    Play more.
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