Comments

  • Hatred EdgeHatred Edge FEAR MY WRATH Joined: Posts: 12,954 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Whenever I see that, I can't help but feel I'm being trolled.
    With the power I have attained....  Overwhelming and absolute.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭✭
    Stupid. Very low credibility. You guys shouldn't even be listening to this garbage.
  • BastionBastion burred flu Joined: Posts: 255
    I'm a KOF scrub I will admit that. But Ive been around the FGC since SFA2 and one thing I've learned is that tier lists evolve over time. I think the chart is a good jumping off point since the game is still young but I don't expect it to stay the same by July.
    /////////////////////
  • SnakeofNinjutsuSnakeofNinjutsu Kallen Kouzuki FTW Joined: Posts: 229
    Let's see Leona is the worst in the game. The moment I heard that this list lost all credibility. I may be still learning the game but I know what she is capable of and her HD combos aren't that hard(At first glance, it is). Once you know the how to do the combos.
    P4A - Elizabeth
    IGAU - Catwoman
    Jojo - Dio/Giorno
  • CrimsonCrimson Joined: Posts: 1,029
    They say that Leona is the worst because she needs meter.
  • AlenthAlenth Joined: Posts: 560
    Kula should be higher imo.
    VF5: Sarah, P4U: Elizabeth, Aigis, KOF XIII: Elizabeth, Clark, Kyo.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭✭
  • bkfst_sausagebkfst_sausage ST / SRK2k3 OG Joined: Posts: 2,802
    I've never agreed with a tier list for a game that's less than a year old.

    Let's look at Marvel 2... Original top tier was Cable, Iceman, Dr. Doom, and Blackheart. That was the solid top tier for over a year before people figured out Sentinel and Magneto... Storm and Sentinel were originally considered low tier.

    Marvel 3 claimed Sentinel was broken, so Capcom nerfed him.

    Red Venom in Marvel 1 was considered low because of his health for quite a number of months before his offense was truly figured out.

    Urien was considered GARBAGE in 3S when that game launched for almost 3 years, at least in the states. Japan knew...

    Point being: regardless of if you do or don't agree with this tier list is irrelevant. A 2-month tier list is DEFINITELY GUARANTEED to change on any fighting game that's worth playing.
    PSN: M1X4H < click it!
  • AzN InKAzN InK I was a Tom Joined: Posts: 639
    Kula should be at least one tier higher. Somewhere around where K' is. They were too tough on Leona. If anything she should at least put her by Ralph.

    Im really glad though that they were giving a lot of deliberation on the potential of Ryo. Ryo is super solid and like they said only got buffs in console version. He's a super solid on point character. His far standing C and D have great range and are cancelable on hit and wiff and give him great mid range control where alot of characters suffer in this "neutral" space. You can essentially play SF4 footsies at mid range with Ryo varying C whiffs cancels with fireball, or wiff baits for jump ins or rolls. HIs crouching D has absurd range and is also cancelable on hit and wiff. And his corner pressure is really good too. Far standing meaty standing C or D cancel into fireball most of the cast cant do anything unless they have a fast invincible DP. Close C to A fireball~crouching C is a great frame trap in the corner. He also does well against fireball characters due to the fact that you can parry fireballs and slowly push them back to the corner.

    Like previously mentioned this is a good starting point for an attempt to make a tier list. There are only a couple of big things I dont agree with which was the Kula, Leona, and King placements. However, the rest of it you could probably shift a character slightly left or right and it wouldn't be that big of a difference. Like someone said, tier lists are ever evolving and I'm sure since the game is fairly new, we'll see more changes to it in the future.
    "Ontop of that, all you dudes calling us fat and ugly and whatever you can think of. Good job, if I was cute and skinny would you fuck me? Is that what you really want?" - Marn

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  • Geese PantsGeese Pants Midwest Decepticon Joined: Posts: 14,537 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't believe Kim is that low................
    The Prince of Masturbation.........

    "Please do not use such strong words...........it makes you look weak."
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  • seyuseyu Joined: Posts: 147
    its either a clever comment on how stupid tier lists are so early after a games release, or those guys dont know their stuff.
    IMO its not even up for debate, if leona is garbage.
    Theres also a lot wrong with other placements, for example benimary is probably not that high. I saw bala listing all his advantages as a top tier char and some just weren true>_>

    moving on now
  • MightfoMightfo Joined: Posts: 335
    Leona, bottom? What the actual fuck. What kind of explanation is there for that? "Needs meter" wouldnt even matter if it was true, since there's this thing called putting a character in 2nd/3rd place.
    If you live around Dallas/Fort Worth and play P4A, SG, BB, MB, AH3, or KOF13, PM me.
  • AlenthAlenth Joined: Posts: 560
    Im really glad though that they were giving a lot of deliberation on the potential of Ryo. Ryo is super solid and like they said only got buffs in console version. He's a super solid on point character. His far standing C and D have great range and are cancelable on hit and wiff and give him great mid range control where alot of characters suffer in this "neutral" space. You can essentially play SF4 footsies at mid range with Ryo varying C whiffs cancels with fireball, or wiff baits for jump ins or rolls. HIs crouching D has absurd range and is also cancelable on hit and wiff. And his corner pressure is really good too. Far standing meaty standing C or D cancel into fireball most of the cast cant do anything unless they have a fast invincible DP. Close C to A fireball~crouching C is a great frame trap in the corner. He also does well against fireball characters due to the fact that you can parry fireballs and slowly push them back to the corner.

    I agree with you although for me he depends of the corner a lot for his maximum damage atm, anyways i need to practice more with him to see his full potential.
    VF5: Sarah, P4U: Elizabeth, Aigis, KOF XIII: Elizabeth, Clark, Kyo.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭✭
    But yeah guys, their tier list is very wonky. It's like they're basing the tier list more around damage than actual tools. Why are both EX Kyo and EX Iori both so high on the "have weakness" portion while normal Kyo and Iori are higher but suffer spacial control issues that EX Kyo and EX Iori make up for in design. If anything it's Kyo and Iori with weaknesses. There's just so much wrong with the list.
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭
    Better format: http://pastebin.com/2QHiQyNU
    A+: EX Kyo, Mr. Karate, Saiki, Robert, Kyo, Iori, Benimaru

    A: EX Iori, Clark, Goro, Shen, Yuri, K', Hwa, Kensou

    B+: Andy, Ryo

    B: Kim, Mai, Duo Lon, Ash, Mature, Billy, Vice, Elisabeth, Raiden, Takuma, Maxima, Chin

    B-: Athena, King, Terry, Ralf, Kula, Joe

    C: Leona

    I agree with the majority of it, but a few things don't make sense to me, most notably Leona being in bottom, which seems completely inaccurate.
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,386 ✭✭
    I've never agreed with a tier list for a game that's less than a year old.

    Let's look at Marvel 2... Original top tier was Cable, Iceman, Dr. Doom, and Blackheart. That was the solid top tier for over a year before people figured out Sentinel and Magneto... Storm and Sentinel were originally considered low tier.

    Off-topic, but I really despise the revisionist history being spewed on SRK about the early MvC2.
    Iceman was top-tier for like 1 week...maybe a MONTH at best, before everybody found out how limited he was.
    A much better example of a "Year 1 Top" would have been Cammy or Spiral. And Storm was never low-tier.

    Anyway, on-topic, Laban is right.
    Retarded tierlist is retarded.
    Clark better than Andy?
    Leona bottom-tier?
    Kula and King almost bottom tier? Especially when they've been on winning tournament teams?
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • the7kthe7k Kitty Pride. Joined: Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just remember:
    Being bottom tier doesn't mean that you lose to top tiers for free. At least, not yet with this game. I don't think Leona, Joe, Terry or any of the other widely debated bottom tier characters vs Kyo, Iori, Benimaru or any of the other widely accepted top tier characters is in anyway close to Yun vs Sean or Sasquatch vs Anakaris or Cable vs Roll.

    Also remember:
    It's too damn early! Arcade version may have been out for over a year, but this is far and away a completely different game from the arcade version in the competitive sense. This list will change, if it even were correct in the first place.

    Finally:
    They are judging characters entirely within a vacuum. Tools, damage potential, execution required, space control - all important, but if half the cast has a way to counter your advantages, it doesn't really matter! That's why I believe match-up discussion needs to be done far before any tier list discussion. Just how I feel.
    PSN: the_7k. XBL: the7k. http://www.twitch.tv/the7k - Turn on, Tune in, Drop combos.

    "Comebacks are fine as long as I'm the one doing them. Otherwise, they are evidence of a broken, poorly balanced game and it's all because of poor netcode and in-game lag due to poor port optimization and it was a terrible matchup and they need to patch the game and I should have won that and why does anyone even play this awful, fraud friendly game."
  • BeatrushBeatrush The guy who runs the stream Joined: Posts: 1,279
    I personally think in the end, characters with the most versatility and a command grab will remain top. Rest is debatable.
    "Mindgames only work on people who actually use their mind" – Airamae
  • SketchspaceSketchspace Joined: Posts: 648
    Mr. Karate, top tier after 4 or 5 days? smh.

    (I know they do the beta testing, but still...)
  • bustedwolfbustedwolf Joined: Posts: 122
    It's a tier list. All that means is that it will influence new players but in the end the more experienced players will pick there characters they like and that appeal to their style. Leona isn't as limited as they present her to be. Honestly I'd put her around where Kim is or maybe a little lower. Leona and Kim roughly suffer the same weaknesses.
  • bkfst_sausagebkfst_sausage ST / SRK2k3 OG Joined: Posts: 2,802
    Off-topic, but I really despise the revisionist history being spewed on SRK about the early MvC2.
    Iceman was top-tier for like 1 week...maybe a MONTH at best, before everybody found out how limited he was.
    A much better example of a "Year 1 Top" would have been Cammy or Spiral. And Storm was never low-tier.
    Yo man, I don't know what the "community" was feeling back in 2k, but Chinatown Fair... Iceman got consistent play for about 9 months before he was done, and people kept talking about how Storm was really nerfed compared to the XSF version and was mid tier at best... This happened consistently throughout the first year of it's release.
    PSN: M1X4H < click it!
  • BurningVigorBurningVigor *sigh* Joined: Posts: 244
    I agree with most of that tier list.
    KOFXIII - ExKyo / K` / Andy
    AH3 - Nazuna(Time) / Akane(anything)
    GGAC - Bridget / Johnny / Sol / Chipp / Order-Sol
    SSF4 - Guy / Sakura
  • AzN InKAzN InK I was a Tom Joined: Posts: 639
    I personally think in the end, characters with the most versatility and a command grab will remain top. Rest is debatable.

    I agree with this. Command grabs are really strong in this game especially those with 1 frame command grabs like Yuri that allow you to punish moves such as Kyo's upkicks that most of the cast without a command grab would have to play a guessing game on block. It also opens up alot of offensive mix up options.
    "Ontop of that, all you dudes calling us fat and ugly and whatever you can think of. Good job, if I was cute and skinny would you fuck me? Is that what you really want?" - Marn

    "...[SIZE=13px] ball gargling champion of the western suburbs..."[/SIZE]
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Better format: http://pastebin.com/2QHiQyNU


    I agree with the majority of it, but a few things don't make sense to me, most notably Leona being in bottom, which seems completely inaccurate.
    My big problems with that list is Takuma, Billy, King, and Kula seem a lot lower than they should be and Mr. Karate, Saiki, Kensou, and Clark seem a lot higher than they should be. Just my opinion, I could see how they would think everything else, but I just kinda don't see how they got those specific ones.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • starkilledstarkilled Black and white (I'm really black) Joined: Posts: 1,693
    I don't agree with Takuma needing lots of meter to be strong, I can get 881 Damage off of full HD gauge and 1 bar. so in return I don't agree with his placement.
    fuck a relationship. god told that stupid bitch eve not to eat the fuckin mango or whatever, the bitch did, and fucked everyone. fuck women! shout out to snakes! -jimmy1200
  • AwesomersaurAwesomersaur LAB Falken Joined: Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭
    The game is still quite young, so I'd be hard-pressed to take any tier list at face value.

    One thing to note is that almost every EX character but Iori is A+, while they are all great characters... it's possible that their placement may be due to inexperience.

    In regards to the Leona issue they do bring up good points. Without meter she has to rely on some pretty stinky tools (not that they're super bad, but they're not the greatest by any means), and if you have a 1f cmd throw her options become even more limited.

    but yea this
    I've never agreed with a tier list for a game that's less than a year old
    sums it up.

    For preliminary tier lists this one isn't nightmare bad at least.
    恐竜
  • TeyahTeyah Return of the Dragon Joined: Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭
    Can someone explain to me why they have placed Benimaru as #1? Is it just the command grab + DP + space control combination? In my (albeit limited) experience his damage seems really poor anywhere outside of corner and he doesn't have the tools to corner carry you there even on hit. Any thoughts on this? I'm genuinely interested to be proven wrong here as I play Beni.
    I agree with this. Command grabs are really strong in this game especially those with 1 frame command grabs like Yuri that allow you to punish moves such as Kyo's upkicks that most of the cast without a command grab would have to play a guessing game on block. It also opens up alot of offensive mix up options.
    You can punish Kyo light upkicks (-1 on block) with normal grabs too, since those are also 1F. Though there's a lot more timing required since you can't just input early and then hold down the button like you can the special/super grabs.
    I see in frames IRL
  • AwesomersaurAwesomersaur LAB Falken Joined: Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭
    upkicks is a special so kyo can tech the throw, so it's not really a punish
    恐竜
  • rogueyoshirogueyoshi Nothing Comes Easy Joined: Posts: 1,920
    last i checked, the game has been out for almost a year and a half in arcade. we also know most, if not all of the changes in the console version, so you can't really say its too soon. and besides that, i'm pretty sure they know more about the game than anybody else this side of the hemisphere
    nignagnog: minority report
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  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭✭
    I feel that Benimaru is 98 type of good, but not overbearingly dominant. There are still ways to space against him and there are ways to stand outside of both his command grab and DP range for okizeme. Hell, his DP+B isn't even invul and it's really, really unsafe. His Far C isn't what it used to be and he doesn't have the old j.CD. TK Air Raijinken is a pretty good substitute but that doesn't elevate Benimaru that high.

    I agree he's really good and maybe in the top echelon of characters when it's said and done, but how they're describing him seems as if it's a hyperbole.
  • SuperFreakSuperFreak Dope track late night. Joined: Posts: 261

    You can punish Kyo light upkicks (-1 on block) with normal grabs too, since those are also 1F. Though there's a lot more timing required since you can't just input early and then hold down the button like you can the special/super grabs.

    you can always hit kyo in between the 1st and 2nd hit with most characters. normal throws are 3F iirc. (video of it somewhere)
    ---
  • rogueyoshirogueyoshi Nothing Comes Easy Joined: Posts: 1,920
    you can always hit kyo in between the 1st and 2nd hit with most characters. normal throws are 3F iirc. (video of it somewhere)
    you're stuck in blockstun between both hits of 236B. theres only a gap in 236D's two hits
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    nignagnog: you got punished for your future crimes
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  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭✭
    You can punish Kyo light upkicks (-1 on block) with normal grabs too, since those are also 1F. Though there's a lot more timing required since you can't just input early and then hold down the button like you can the special/super grabs.

    **** will mash throw tech afterwards. Playing on GGPO, there are many asshats that just randomly roll and mash throw tech during the duration of the throw. It's better to find something that actually punishes the attack.
  • TeyahTeyah Return of the Dragon Joined: Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭
    you can always hit kyo in between the 1st and 2nd hit with most characters. normal throws are 3F iirc. (video of it somewhere)
    Normal throws are 1F, I've tested this and so has phoenixnl - you can test this yourself by having the dummy do Kyo's 236B and then hold up, you can still throw him after. But it seems like Awesomersaur is right, Kyo can still tech if he's mashing C really hard. :(
    **** will mash throw tech afterwards. Playing on GGPO, there are many asshats that just randomly roll and mash throw tech during the duration of the throw. It's better to find something that actually punishes the attack.
    Edit: nvm, looks like you and Awesomersaur are right, you can tech during recovery of specials for some reason.
    I see in frames IRL
  • GirugaMarcGirugaMarc Joined: Posts: 350
    you're stuck in blockstun between both hits of 236B. theres only a gap in 236D's two hits
    Nope. You can throw out a startup invulnerable mode like Andy's dp C to interrupt it just fine.
  • josh99josh99 Joined: Posts: 73
    This game shouldn't even have a tier list, its not like streetfighter and other games. EVERY character in this game has the potential to beat any other character. I haven't seen anything cheap besides Chin's frame trap, but thats character specific
  • rogueyoshirogueyoshi Nothing Comes Easy Joined: Posts: 1,920
    Nope. You can throw out a startup invulnerable mode like Andy's dp C to interrupt it just fine.
    oh right, thats one of the console changes. in arcade both hits are close together but the recovery's bad. in this the recovery is good but theres a gap
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  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭✭✭
    oh right, thats one of the console changes. in arcade both hits are close together but the recovery's bad. in this the recovery is good but theres a gap
    They gave that to EX Kyo, although the B version is punishable as well because it has bad recovery.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • DedemaruDedemaru Joined: Posts: 603
    I never really understood how these MMCafe tierlists worked. You want to be up and more to the right, correct? It's just confusing for me (I'm slow).

    Also, why is Leona so far at the bottom? What makes her so bad? Or maybe it's because they're not sure where she goes yet?
  • CrimsonCrimson Joined: Posts: 1,029
    This was in February. They thought Leona was terrible. She is still probably one of the worst in the game, but she isn't that low. Way to bump an old thread.
  • josh99josh99 Joined: Posts: 73
    I think Mr.Karate is low tier and Leona is top tier
  • Simply AmazianSimply Amazian Joined: Posts: 7
    I think Mr.Karate is low tier and Leona is top tier

    ..........that's just stupid.
  • KINGKING あなたの母親の膣 Joined: Posts: 2,558
    dude, he's trolling.
    "I will be kind enough to give you the hint regarding KOF though: read Iori Yagami's family name in reverse." -- Black Shroud
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