[KOF XIII] EX Mr. Karate

b4k4b4k4 Potent Yomi.Joined: Posts: 322
Now that he is available I think it's time we started discussing his merits. I'll go over a few points:
  • All of his normals (standing and crouching) with the exception of s.D are jump cancelable on hit (not on block). I see this as being useful for two things. The first is allowing him to combo into air hcf+K (hcf+B, specifically) from his standing normals, and the second is to allow for cross-up mix-ups after resets.
  • s.D can link into s.C.
  • EX qcf+P has automatic guard crush properties on block.
  • qcb+P counter will teleport through projectiles and establish close range. Frame advantage depends on the distance from the projectile's originator.
  • EX qcb+P Counter will instantly punish projectiles, but again is range dependent. From full screen the opponent has more than enough time to block the counter, where Mr. Karate will be punishable. Only use from 2/3 of the screen or closer, but depends on projectile properties of individual characters.
  • EX hcf+K is something of a teleport into a command grab. Will go through projectiles in the middle of its animation. If used late, you will be hit out of start up. This is better used as a read vs. projectiles, and the qcb+P counter is more of a reaction tool.
  • dp+A will hit opponents in juggle states, dp+C will not. I assume this is to prevent the ability to loop dp+C~A+B, dp+C~A+B, etc. in the corner indefinitely.
  • f+A command attack can be canceled into dp+C on the second hit and connect, which seems to lead to his biggest midscreen damage opportunities (c.B, s.B, f+A xx dp+C~A+B...)
  • Best super to use for ending combos appears to be qcf, hcb+P. Higher damage than his other two options, and seems connectable in most situations.
  • f,b,f+P only seems to have uses in the corner. Affects damage scaling too much and knocks back too far for it to have mid screen applications imo. Can link a dp+A afterwards in the corner without having to spend drive.
  • Should note that because backdash is airborne, you can backdash into air hcf+K instantly to catch people chasing you. This leads to juggle opportunities in the corner, haven't tested midscreen.
  • j.B, j.D, and j.CD all cross up. the j.CD crossup looks hilarious, because they will be pulled towards the direction of your jump arc, even though you hit them from behind.
Overall impressions:
Lots of damage output and pressure. Doesn't need much meter to inflict a lot of hurt. I don't think he really needs to activate HD mode unless you really need to go in for the kill. My midscreen BnB for 1 meter (no drive) does 401. He hits like a truck.

Edit: Oh yeah, don't throw fireballs at him. Like, EVER.
hihihi: orbit should invest in an air conditioner for t6
noodleman: yea, trade the horse game for an air conditioner.
coveguy: yes, cuz ya know, so many ppl want to buy that horse game... -_-
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Comments

  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm starting to come around to Mr. Karate, but I'm still favoring Takuma at the moment. Really the big things I'm noticing is that compared to Takuma his normals seem faster and he has much better confirms off of lows, but his lockdown isn't as good because all his safe specials push you out really far which hurts your pressure, and even on hit unless you're in the corner his attacks send people flying away really far. His damage is good, but it doesn't really compare to Takuma's, and while Takuma will generally need more drive here or there he gets way more damage out of everything than Mr. Karate does except for meterless hit confirms off of lows.

    So basically as I see it, if you want lock down pressure and damage, go with Takuma. If you want good hit confirms, better anti air options, and an easier time getting in, go with Mr. Karate. Both are solid options and I'd say pretty even in terms of ability, it's just a matter of play style.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • CrimsonCrimson Joined: Posts: 1,029
    I'm starting to come around to Mr. Karate, but I'm still favoring Takuma at the moment. Really the big things I'm noticing is that compared to Takuma his normals seem faster and he has much better confirms off of lows, but his lockdown isn't as good because all his safe specials push you out really far which hurts your pressure, and even on hit unless you're in the corner his attacks send people flying away really far. His damage is good, but it doesn't really compare to Takuma's, and while Takuma will generally need more drive here or there he gets way more damage out of everything than Mr. Karate does except for meterless hit confirms off of lows.

    So basically as I see it, if you want lock down pressure and damage, go with Takuma. If you want good hit confirms, better anti air options, and an easier time getting in, go with Mr. Karate. Both are solid options and I'd say pretty even in terms of ability, it's just a matter of play style.
    What do you think of KOFXIII on the hitbox instead of on stick?
  • b4k4b4k4 Potent Yomi. Joined: Posts: 322
    Oh, I neglected to mention that both dp+A and EX dp+P appear to be invincible. Good reversal options.

    JohnGrimm: Knocking people away isn't a huge concern, imo. You can link TK EX air hcf+K into itself for full screen corner carries off of hit confirms, if you have the meter. If you want screen position, and have meter to spend, it's yours for the taking. Still, a worthwhile comparison. I haven't dabbled much with Takuma as I am new to the KoF series, so it's nice to get the comparison for people stuck making the Takuma vs. Mr. Karate choice when constructing their teams.
    hihihi: orbit should invest in an air conditioner for t6
    noodleman: yea, trade the horse game for an air conditioner.
    coveguy: yes, cuz ya know, so many ppl want to buy that horse game... -_-
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭✭
    What do you think of KOFXIII on the hitbox instead of on stick?
    Hah, well that's not really relevant to this thread, but it works just fine. No 720's means I can play anyone I want without having to worry about not getting a move when I need it. Not that 720's are impossible or anything, I just never learned how to do them because I don't really play grapplers.
    Oh, I neglected to mention that both dp+A and EX dp+P appear to be invincible. Good reversal options.

    JohnGrimm: Knocking people away isn't a huge concern, imo. You can link TK EX air hcf+K into itself for full screen corner carries off of hit confirms, if you have the meter. If you want screen position, and have meter to spend, it's yours for the taking. Still, a worthwhile comparison. I haven't dabbled much with Takuma as I am new to the KoF series, so it's nice to get the comparison for people stuck making the Takuma vs. Mr. Karate choice when constructing their teams.

    That personally seems like a lot of meter for a corner carry to me. Generally if I want to get someone in the corner I don't want to use more than one meter and maybe a drive. Even still, ending a block string with fireball pushes you out to half screen making it very difficult to keep the pressure on where as with Takuma you're still in perfect positioning to make sure your opponent can't jump or roll out of the corner or to keep you in mid screen. He has pretty much no other safe specials, so you're going to be relying on his normals entirely, which isn't necessarily bad since his normals are pretty good, but then you're susceptible to reversals.

    Also, I feel that super jump cancelling is pretty worthless right now. Unless I see someone come up with a really ambiguous cross up setup that's also a safe jump, I'm not buying it. The combos into TK Hien are kinda gimmicky, EX as a wall carry is alright, but other than that they don't seem to be optimal combos.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • b4k4b4k4 Potent Yomi. Joined: Posts: 322
    I don't think TK Hien combos are a gimmick at all. Right now, I'm using this as a hitconfirm:

    c.B, s.B, f.A xx dp+C~A+B, TK hcf+B, qcf, hcb+A

    401 damage, 1 bar, works anywhere on screen. Definitely practical applications.

    Edit: fixed combo notation.
    hihihi: orbit should invest in an air conditioner for t6
    noodleman: yea, trade the horse game for an air conditioner.
    coveguy: yes, cuz ya know, so many ppl want to buy that horse game... -_-
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't think TK Hien combos are a gimmick at all. Right now, I'm using this as a hitconfirm:

    c.B, s.B, f.A xx dp+C~A+B, TK hcf+B, qcb, hcf+A

    401 damage, 1 bar, works anywhere on screen. Definitely practical applications.
    I mean Super Jump Cancel TK Hien combos. I use TK Hien in combos all the time too, but never from super jump cancel.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • b4k4b4k4 Potent Yomi. Joined: Posts: 322
    Ahhh. Yeah the sjc value is dubious, but I'm sure some uses will reveal themselves to us in time.

    Edit: Credit to t3h mAsTarOth...!on the DC forums for that midscreen BnB btw. I didn't innovate it.
    hihihi: orbit should invest in an air conditioner for t6
    noodleman: yea, trade the horse game for an air conditioner.
    coveguy: yes, cuz ya know, so many ppl want to buy that horse game... -_-
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭✭
    Edit: Credit to t3h mAsTarOth...!on the DC forums for that midscreen BnB btw. I didn't innovate it.
    Well then here's a corner BnB for you if you need one. One meter, one drive, godlike damage. I think it does 565.

    j.D, cl.C, f.A (2 hit) xx DP+C~AB, j.HCF+B, DP+A DC j.HCF+B, DP+A, QCF, HCB+A

    That's the best corner BnB I found.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • b4k4b4k4 Potent Yomi. Joined: Posts: 322
    j.D, s.C, f+B xx dp+C~A+B, qcf+A, dp+A DC air hcf+B, qcf+A, qcf, hcb+A = 584. Also credit to t3h mAsTarOth..! In fact, he won't mind if I quote and put his information here, I'm sure...
    Mid-Screen -

    0 Meter + 0 Drive

    - j.D/cr.B, s.B, f+A *2 hits*, dp+C~A+B, TK hcf+B, dp+A = 288 dmg
    - j.D/cr.B, cr.B, s.B, f+A *2 hits*, dp+C~A+B, hyper hop D = 268 dmg (Reset + Easier hit confirm)

    1 Meter + 0 Drive

    - j.D/cr.B, s.B, f+A *2 hits*, dp+C~A+B, TK hcf+B, qcf~hcb+A = 439 dmg
    - j.D/cr.B, cr.B, s.B, f+A *2 hits*, dp+C~A+B, qcf~hcb+A = 414 dmg (Easier hit confirm)

    1 Meter + 1 Drive

    - j.D, s.C, qcf+A, DC, dp+C~A+B, TK hcf+B, qcf~hcb+A = 486 dmg ("DC" Can be option selected)

    2 Meter + 0 Drive

    - j.D/cr.B, s.B, f+A *2 hits*, dp+C~A+B, TK hcf+B, qcf~hcb+AC = 529 dmg
    - j.D/cr.B, cr.B, s.B, f+A *2 hits*, dp+C~A+B, qcf~hcb+AC = 504 dmg (Easier hit confirm)

    2 Meter + 1 Drive

    - j.D, s.C, qcf+A, DC, dp+C~A+B, TK hcf+B, qcf~hcb+AC = 583 dmg ("DC" Can be option selected)


    Corner -


    0 Meter + 0 Drive

    - j.D, s.C, f+B, dp+C~A+B, qcf+A, dp+A = 323 dmg

    0 Meter + 1 Drive

    - j.D, s.C, f+B, dp+C~A+B, qcf+A, dp+A, DC, TK hcf+B, qcf+A, dp+A = 440 dmg

    1 Meter + 0 Drive

    - j.D, s.C, f+B, dp+C~A+B, qcf+A, qcf~hcb+A = 477 dmg

    1 Meter + 1 Drive

    - j.D, s.C, f+B, dp+C~A+B, qcf+A, dp+A, DC, TK hcf+B, qcf+A, qcf~hcb+A = 582 dmg

    2 Meter + 0 Drive

    - j.D, s.C, f+B, dp+C~A+B, qcf+A, qcf~hcb+AC = 574 dmg

    2 Meter + 1 Drive

    - j.D, s.C, f+B, dp+C~A+B, qcf+A, dp+A, DC, TK hcf+B, qcf+A, qcf~hcb+AC = 658 dmg
    hihihi: orbit should invest in an air conditioner for t6
    noodleman: yea, trade the horse game for an air conditioner.
    coveguy: yes, cuz ya know, so many ppl want to buy that horse game... -_-
  • FullMetalRossFullMetalRoss That Hurt! Liar... Joined: Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭
    Yeah basically with Mr.Karate you don't really need to burn drive unless you really want to squeeze out a bit of extra damage in the corner an extra 100 damage for 1 drive is pretty useful. I think though in general its better to just save all your drive for hd combos with mr.karate unless you know you'll kill if you have hd. Maybe soon people wiill find better stuff thoug that makes that not true.
    <<>>
  • SketchspaceSketchspace Joined: Posts: 648
    I don't think TK Hien combos are a gimmick at all. Right now, I'm using this as a hitconfirm:

    c.B, s.B, f.A xx dp+C~A+B, TK hcf+B, qcf, hcb+A

    401 damage, 1 bar, works anywhere on screen. Definitely practical applications.

    Edit: fixed combo notation.

    Tried this for a bit too. One thing I learned is that instead of doing the TK hcf+B, you can do hop B and mixup from there with a grab, hop attack, hop then low, etc.
  • b4k4b4k4 Potent Yomi. Joined: Posts: 322
    I'd had this mental picture of myself placing him as anchor on my team (this was before actually playing him), but his meter requirements don't really require him to be played there. I honestly think he might be best suited as a point character, because his output with no meter/one meter is very high, and you can stock a lot of drive for a second/third character. I think that because of his low meter requirements he's better off in a slot other than anchor.
    hihihi: orbit should invest in an air conditioner for t6
    noodleman: yea, trade the horse game for an air conditioner.
    coveguy: yes, cuz ya know, so many ppl want to buy that horse game... -_-
  • Hiryu02Hiryu02 Respetar la Máscara Joined: Posts: 2,124
    What are the properties of his ShoranKyaku? I haven't seen any discussion of this move at all. Can you combo into it? Out of it? What are the differences between B,D, and EX? Is it a true command grab?
    Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathamatically no where near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd had this mental picture of myself placing him as anchor on my team (this was before actually playing him), but his meter requirements don't really require him to be played there. I honestly think he might be best suited as a point character, because his output with no meter/one meter is very high, and you can stock a lot of drive for a second/third character. I think that because of his low meter requirements he's better off in a slot other than anchor.
    I think I agree with him most on 2nd personally. As I see it a team with Mr. Karate would go like Battery/Mr. Karate/Versatile Anchor. This way when Mr. Karate comes in he's got the meter to get 400+ damage every time he hits you, which will be devastating. He'll either kill you in 3 combos, or when he goes out your anchor will have probably 2 or 3 meter, and if you have an anchor that builds meter easily that can use it (a reason I wish I could have Mr. Karate and Takuma on the same team :P) they'll be set. That seems like the scariest build to me.
    What are the properties of his ShoranKyaku? I haven't seen any discussion of this move at all. Can you combo into it? Out of it? What are the differences between B,D, and EX? Is it a true command grab?
    B is short range, D is further range, EX tracks, you can't combo into it, it's a true command grab, you can't drive cancel it from what I can see, it's just a mixup tool. Could be good for catching rolls if someone finds an option select for it, otherwise it's pretty meh. There's some use for going through fireballs as well.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • b4k4b4k4 Potent Yomi. Joined: Posts: 322
    It is a command grab. Haven't been able to combo into it (start up is always too slow). EX is invulnerable during the middle of the animation, which is good for passing through predicted projectiles. Cannot be drive canceled and always pushes too far away to follow up, even in the corner.

    Worth noting: the animation for the B and D versions are identical to his run/dash animation. I believe this will be useful for mixups in frame trap situations. Teach your opponent to block in certain situations where you have time to run in and attack. The next time you set this situation up, go for hcb+K throw instead. This trick is obviously not useful with the EX version, which animates with a flash and goes invisible.

    B and D versions are identical in terms of range (2/3 screen) and damage (both 133). EX version is full screen and does 188. (Just tested this JohnGrimm, I thought the range was different too, but it's not).

    Re: Position - He's really so versatile I can see him being used anywhere. My preference is somewhat based around the fact that I already have someone in mind for that slot on my team, which leaves him to occupy one of the other two. His meter -> damage output efficiency is scary.

    Question - Bad Matchups?

    I said before (maybe in the GD thread) that I don't really think he has bad matchups, but I'm rethinking that. I believe he may have difficulty getting out of the pressure of characters like K' and Kula, who have very good mid range pokes that out-range most of Mr. Karate's normals. This may require smart countering and/or use of dp+A (or EX) invincibility, but those both seem like risky options.

    Thoughts?
    hihihi: orbit should invest in an air conditioner for t6
    noodleman: yea, trade the horse game for an air conditioner.
    coveguy: yes, cuz ya know, so many ppl want to buy that horse game... -_-
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭✭
    Question - Bad Matchups?

    I said before (maybe in the GD thread) that I don't really think he has bad matchups, but I'm rethinking that. I believe he may have difficulty getting out of the pressure of characters like K' and Kula, who have very good mid range pokes that out-range most of Mr. Karate's normals. This may require smart countering and/or use of dp+A (or EX) invincibility, but those both seem like risky options.

    Thoughts?
    I think anyone who can control space well and has a good reversal is going to give Mr. Karate a hard time. Long range normals and short range fireballs (Ryo, Yuri, another Mr. Karate etc.) are going to be a real pain in the ass since it's not going to be very easy to parry on reaction like long range fireballs and Mr. Karate's stubby normals aren't going to help him get in at all. You could guess an EX command grab, but just yesterday while playing casuals I managed to punch him out of it on reaction, so I don't see it as being a strong tool. He could maybe work his way in with sweeps and far C and the occasional QCF+P, but it's going to be a hell of a time actually closing the gap.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • b4k4b4k4 Potent Yomi. Joined: Posts: 322
    Fun new combo I cooked up, and rather practical:

    (Corner) j.CD (counter hit), qcf+C~f,f, qcf+A*, dp+A DC air hcf+B, qcf+A, qcf~hcb+A(+C)

    560 for the level one. 650 if you EX the final super. I often get counterhit j.CD against opponents eager to get out of the corner.

    * = If you don't want to get qcf+C~f,f, f~hcf+P (which you will get, and which will not juggle) you need to delay slightly between the dash cancel and the qcf+A. That's what worked for me, anyway. This combo really punishes opponents trying to stick out moves or jump out of the corner.

    Grimm: Yeah we're going to have to let Mr. Karate's place in the metagame unravel a little more before we figure out his good and bad matchups, but he's not quite the jack of all trades, and seems prone to being zoned at mid range.

    Oh, was also experimenting with resets into EX qcf+P. The only way to combo after this crushes guard is to spend 50% Dream and Super Cancel it into qcf~hcb+P. You could do other supers, but this is the best damage. Remember: you can only DC a special on a hit, which the guard crush does not count as (though it does do 16 damage which I assume is chip). I've got a few resets down, but they're not very meter efficient, and I will probably use them more to troll/style on people than actually boost damage.
    hihihi: orbit should invest in an air conditioner for t6
    noodleman: yea, trade the horse game for an air conditioner.
    coveguy: yes, cuz ya know, so many ppl want to buy that horse game... -_-
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭✭
    Remember: you can only DC a special on a hit
    That actually doesn't apply to Super Cancels, you can Super Cancel on block no problem. I do it with Kim when I do QCB+D and it gets blocked all the time to make it safe.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • b4k4b4k4 Potent Yomi. Joined: Posts: 322
    Yeah that's what I was getting at. DCs and SCs are two different things, which is why you can only SC the EX qcf+P, and not DC (because it would be really cool to do EX qcf+P DC dp+C~A+B -> ...).
    hihihi: orbit should invest in an air conditioner for t6
    noodleman: yea, trade the horse game for an air conditioner.
    coveguy: yes, cuz ya know, so many ppl want to buy that horse game... -_-
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah that's what I was getting at. DCs and SCs are two different things, which is why you can only SC the EX qcf+P, and not DC (because it would be really cool to do EX qcf+P DC dp+C~A+B -> ...).
    Well if it lands and you get the crumple state you can Drive Cancel it. I don't think anyone will ever get hit with it unless you somehow roll punish with it or something, but it's possible.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭✭
    Somewhat new Mr. Karate HD combo. Probably just corner only, but I'm sure someone could make a midscreen variation of it somehow.

    j.D, cl.C, f.B BC cl.C, f.B xx QCF+A DC DP+C~AB, QCF+A, QCF+A DC DP+C~AB, QCF+A, QCF+A DC DP+C~AB, QCF+C DC fbf+AC, QCF+C~ff, fbf+P, QCF,HCB+AC

    3 meter, 909 damage. I knew Mr. Karate didn't do as much damage in the long run as Takuma, but to see that he needs 3 meter to do the same damage as a 1 meter Takuma combo is kind of depressing.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • b4k4b4k4 Potent Yomi. Joined: Posts: 322
    That's a step up from the HD loop I was working on. I was literally just practicing:

    j.D, s.C, f+B, BC, s.C, f+B xx dp+C~AB, qcf+A, dp+A DC j.hcf+B, qcf+A, dp+A, j.hcf+B, f~b~f+P, dp+A xx qcf~qcf+K (2 hits) xx qcb~hcf+AC

    I just really wanted to get the Neo Max in there, but it only does about 880 IIRC.

    Oh, and for the record, I think you can only Max Cancel off of the qcfx2+K, first or second hit for the grounded variation only. Couldn't get either of the other DMs to Max Cancel.
    hihihi: orbit should invest in an air conditioner for t6
    noodleman: yea, trade the horse game for an air conditioner.
    coveguy: yes, cuz ya know, so many ppl want to buy that horse game... -_-
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭✭
    Oh, and for the record, I think you can only Max Cancel off of the qcfx2+K, first or second hit for the grounded variation only. Couldn't get either of the other DMs to Max Cancel.
    You can Max Cancel his Ranbu too, but just like Takuma you can't do it when he throws the fireball for the regular version or when he starts his Zanretuken for the EX version, so you have to cancel on the 9th and 11th hits respectively.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • FullMetalRossFullMetalRoss That Hurt! Liar... Joined: Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭
    Anytime you are doing st.c~f+b into hd you can always do st.D, st.c jump cancel hcf+b for better corner carry making it easier to get to hsi corner hd combos that really do damage.

    Ex Mr.karate does do less damage overall than takuma but his better light hitconfirms are nice, I still don't know who to use of course but I would have to improve alot more on hitchecking takuma st.c into f+b, db,f+d after a crossup.
    <<>>
  • NocturnalNocturnal SNK Supporter Joined: Posts: 2,970 mod
    I think Ralf gives Mr.Karate problems. This is from playing Giby last night for a good amount of sets. Ralf's normals seem better overall and keep him out of range. The only thing Mr. Karate can really do is react to the pokes and :dp: + :snka: for the most part. I'm still trying to find a 100% combo that's not too complicated to pull off in a match.
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  • b4k4b4k4 Potent Yomi. Joined: Posts: 322
    After running about 5 hours of matches over the last two days, I have two comments I really want to make regarding Mr. Karate:
    • s.CD xx qcf+C~f,f is an excellent mid-range poking/zoning tool. On block it cannot be punished and pushes the opponent toward the corner. On hit, you can easily run up an apply your strong mix-ups on a knocked down opponent.
    • hcb+K will hit all the fucking time. Seriously, because the animation is identical to his regular dash, you can easily condition people to block when they see this animation, and then get blown up by the throw. If they like to throw out something like an invicible DP (i.e. Andy's dp+P), dash and block a few times to bait them and punish. They'll learn their lesson and start blocking, which is when you get to keep using hcb+K. This is a very strong move, in spite of its lack of use in combos.
    That's all I have to say at the moment.
    hihihi: orbit should invest in an air conditioner for t6
    noodleman: yea, trade the horse game for an air conditioner.
    coveguy: yes, cuz ya know, so many ppl want to buy that horse game... -_-
  • Bzerk45Bzerk45 THE ANSWER Joined: Posts: 187
    You can Max Cancel his Ranbu too, but just like Takuma you can't do it when he throws the fireball for the regular version or when he starts his Zanretuken for the EX version, so you have to cancel on the 9th and 11th hits respectively.

    You can MAX cancel the EX ranbu after the Zanretuken, right as he delivers the blow that makes them spin around before he releases the fireball. Timing is not that tight but is needed if your going to maxcancel the EX ranbu due to that final hit doing 40 points of damage, iirc
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    SSF4AE - Makoto, Oni, Twins :(
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  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭✭
    On the topic of EX Ranbu, I was messing around in training mode to test scaling on things, so I just kept doing EX Zanretuken, QCF+C DC EX Zanretuken until I maxed out the combo counter and then did EX Ranbu, and it looks like even at the worst scaling possible EX Ranbu still adds about 200 damage (slightly less, maybe 185-195 or so) to the end of your combo. For a 2 meter NOT Neo Max in HD mode super, that's pretty fantastic.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • Hiryu02Hiryu02 Respetar la Máscara Joined: Posts: 2,124
    hcb+K will hit all the fucking time. Seriously, because the animation is identical to his regular dash, you can easily condition people to block when they see this animation, and then get blown up by the throw. If they like to throw out something like an invicible DP (i.e. Andy's dp+P), dash and block a few times to bait them and punish. They'll learn their lesson and start blocking, which is when you get to keep using hcb+K. This is a very strong move, in spite of its lack of use outside of combos.

    I'm confused, I thought that Shorankyaku started up too slowly to be comboed from anything? Are you saying that you can in fact combo into it?
    Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathamatically no where near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
  • b4k4b4k4 Potent Yomi. Joined: Posts: 322
    No, just my words running away from my mind. Definitely cannot be used in combos, I'll update that post to be less confusing.
    hihihi: orbit should invest in an air conditioner for t6
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  • rcorporonrcorporon Joined: Posts: 532
    Is it feasible to put both Takuma and Mr. Karate on the same team, or is this redundant?

    I'm still trying to form my main three characters for a team and really like both Takuma and Mr. Karate but was worried having both on a team would be folly.
    PSN: Yewni
    SFIV: Cody / Fei Long
    P4A: Kanji
  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 560 ✭✭✭
    Is it feasible to put both Takuma and Mr. Karate on the same team, or is this redundant?

    I'm still trying to form my main three characters for a team and really like both Takuma and Mr. Karate but was worried having both on a team would be folly.
    It might be feasible, but it is also impossible. If you select either of the two, you can't select the other. Same goes for NESTS Kyo and Flame Iori.
  • rcorporonrcorporon Joined: Posts: 532
    It might be feasible, but it is also impossible. If you select either of the two, you can't select the other. Same goes for NESTS Kyo and Flame Iori.

    Well, that makes it easy then :).
    PSN: Yewni
    SFIV: Cody / Fei Long
    P4A: Kanji
  • Drizzle BubbleDrizzle Bubble FADC TAUNT Joined: Posts: 492
    So, has anyone been using the EX invisible fireball attack thing... XD
    It looks amazing but it's so slow, I can't really see many opportunities where it might be safe.
    SKULLGUUURRLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS - PARASOUL, FILIAAAA
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭✭
    So, has anyone been using the EX invisible fireball attack thing... XD
    It looks amazing but it's so slow, I can't really see many opportunities where it might be safe.
    Outside of combos I don't really see any practical purpose to it outside of scrub matches where your opponent doesn't know about the move.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • Drizzle BubbleDrizzle Bubble FADC TAUNT Joined: Posts: 492
    Outside of combos I don't really see any practical purpose to it outside of scrub matches where your opponent doesn't know about the move.
    That's what I thought. Thanks man.

    I dunno If I'd blow 1 bar on chance...
    Probably won't use it outside of combos. XD

    So, been play Mr. Karate since tuesday. Love him, he fits my play style SO WELL. Feels a bit like Oni from SSF4 AE to me.
    Only trouble is the super jump canceling. I can't do it consistantly. >.< Do you guys neutral super jump, or do it diagonally?
    SKULLGUUURRLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS - PARASOUL, FILIAAAA
  • Optimus CackOptimus Cack yes man kablam Joined: Posts: 269
    Forgive my ignorance but is there any part of playing Karate effectively where specifically super jump canceling is necessary?
  • Z.A.PZ.A.P I Rekka Yo Face !!! Joined: Posts: 335
    What's up Karate heads! Let me know what you think about this Reset my boy Darko showed to me over the weekend...I haven't seen this being used by Mr. Karate players...might be some useful tech.

    "It is a principle of the art of war that one should simply lay down his life and strike." -Hagakure-
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  • Drizzle BubbleDrizzle Bubble FADC TAUNT Joined: Posts: 492
    Seems pretty good! Kinda gimmicky though. XD

    You could jump it or back dash it, right?
    SKULLGUUURRLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS - PARASOUL, FILIAAAA
  • Z.A.PZ.A.P I Rekka Yo Face !!! Joined: Posts: 335
    Yeah it's a gimmick alright....you could jump, roll or back dash. The long startup on the EX fireball gives it away. This reset might work once and it's a interesting little piece to his overall mixup potential.

    But honestly I don't see anyone using this strat in the future....I guess we'll see.
    "It is a principle of the art of war that one should simply lay down his life and strike." -Hagakure-
    YouTube: "The NapTown Fighting Game Network"
  • ZeromurasameZeromurasame Too much wrist action Joined: Posts: 364
    Wouldn't this work better with his command grabs instead of Ex Fireball? I mean they have a delayed start up passed the initial point of contact, so I think they could be useful for tick throws if you don't have a stock. I'm pretty sure if a Mr. Karate player successfully lands a DP-Brake they'll probably commit to a full combo rather than a shenanigan if they have the meter for it.
    No
  • Optimus CackOptimus Cack yes man kablam Joined: Posts: 269
    I'm pretty sure if a Mr. Karate player successfully lands a DP-Brake they'll probably commit to a full combo rather than a shenanigan if they have the meter for it.

    Given the damage karate gets for a dp-break combo I wouldn't blame said players.
  • ZeromurasameZeromurasame Too much wrist action Joined: Posts: 364
  • Optimus CackOptimus Cack yes man kablam Joined: Posts: 269
    I'm not arguing otherwise.

    I thought it was obvious I was agreeing with you...?
  • spacetoiletspacetoilet Joined: Posts: 28
    Hi people, I am not very good at kof13 but I'm not a total beginner, but I'm having issues with his AIR> HCF+B move.
    Is there a trick to getting the hop in and then the flying kick? Or do you literally have to hit down/up>HCF+B to do
    his low flying kick? I see allot of great combos where this is needed and I just can't get it consistently.
    Thanks in advance.
    "お前はもう死んでいる."
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher The man you love to hate Joined: Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What's up Karate heads! Let me know what you think about this Reset my boy Darko showed to me over the weekend...I haven't seen this being used by Mr. Karate players...might be some useful tech.


    No offense but it's waste of meter. If you just do srk into either super it's easily 300-400 damage. Which is roughly the same damage as you're doing right now, only you're wasting another stock to do it...
    STOMP!
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm so god damn mad right now. Mr. Karate has a 2 frame safe jump in the corner. C DP brake A DP on first possible frame cl.C on first possible frame super jump cancel. Just like EX Kyo's 2 frame safe jump, beats everything in the game except King, Goro, and Elizabeth's Neo Max's, and specific instant counters like Mr. Karate's EX parry.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    I'm so god damn mad right now. Mr. Karate has a 2 frame safe jump in the corner. C DP brake A DP on first possible frame cl.C on first possible frame super jump cancel. Just like EX Kyo's 2 frame safe jump, beats everything in the game except King, Goro, and Elizabeth's Neo Max's, and specific instant counters like Mr. Karate's EX parry.
    Yeah, and you can easily sneak in an empty hop if they're flustered or SJ cancel into j.hcf+D to fuck with their timing, or alter the meaty timing from other hitreset heights.

    Also cr.A is secret god tier status with Karate. Much stronger overall than Takuma's potential Zanretsuken BnBs from cr.Bs or after qcf+D.
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    Hi people, I am not very good at kof13 but I'm not a total beginner, but I'm having issues with his AIR> HCF+B move.
    Is there a trick to getting the hop in and then the flying kick? Or do you literally have to hit down/up>HCF+B to do
    his low flying kick? I see allot of great combos where this is needed and I just can't get it consistently.
    Thanks in advance.
    You Tiger Knee it to get the instant air version to come out:

    412369+ (B) is the usual input. Remember to hold down B for the added input buffer.
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