How does hit stun deterioration work?

I am no noob at this game, but I am trying to get a better understanding of the hit stun deterioration mechanic so I can extend combos better. For example, do heavy normals cause more hit stun than lights? How does hit stun work with TACs? Does it completely reset the air hit stun? And are there different hit stuns for air and ground? I assume that special moves affect hit stun differently, but is the based on the number of hits on the special move?

If anyone could answer some or all of these questions, or even give a full explanation of hit stun, that would be great! Thanks.
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  • EsDwongEsDwong Joined: Posts: 99
    You kinda answered your own questions. Just keep track of the number of hits in a combo, the more number of hits and the easier it is for the opponent to recover. But there are certain moves that deteriorate your combo potential alot like wesker's rhino charge. Normally you would be able to hit his magic series from an opponents neutral position to level 3, but if you rhino charge then it's not gonna connect from his magic series unless you use his wall bounce then into level 3.
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 7,360 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It doesn't
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
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  • AmigoOneAmigoOne Joined: Posts: 1,149
  • EsDwongEsDwong Joined: Posts: 99
    before someone calls me out for my explanation I just thought I'd let you know this is vanilla wesker that I'm talking about and something i picked off of cross counter. If wesker's level 3 truly doesn't connect off of a magic series in ultimate that's simply because I don't play him to know much about the character.
  • ironboy89ironboy89 Beep Boop Beep Joined: Posts: 4,656 ✭✭✭
    Where is DuckStrong and No99 at?

    They pretty much had the legitmate theory on how it works. To understand a bit better, watch these two videos...


    [URL=' Science experiment is when Doom does not decide to do the combo as fast as possible.[/URL]

    Now watch this video in comparison where he does the combo as fast as possible, and he gets more hits than usual. Notice how he got more of bang for his buck regardless of the missiles.


    Therefore the conclusion was that HSD is a timer that slowly eat hitstun from moves.The general rule of the is the faster you do a combo, the more likely that it will connect. This rule only apply to hitstun that can be decreased by the HSD. Certain types of Hitstun cannot be decreased by the timer, this is one of the reasons why infinite do exist in this game. For example Nova's Centurtion Rush overhead will ALWAYS do a ground bounce.
  • The Most UnknownThe Most Unknown Joined: Posts: 44
    I figured I was answering my own questions, but I just wanted to make sure. For example, when watching vids such as Dr. Doom's TAC air combos, some of them seem like they completely ignore hitstun all together, or that they go way past the hit stun mark that they should. So I am curious to a little more detail on hitstun.

    I posted this right after u posted above me ^^ , ill take a look at those links. Thanks!
  • MixTapeCDMixTapeCD Commencing Hostilities Joined: Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭✭
    Hey

    I have also been recently looking into this, and I'm going to explain this to you the same way it was explained to me the best I can. I'm by no means an expert , and I will likely miss some aspects of the system, but I'm learning just like you so I hope I at least provide some form of new knowledge.

    In UMVC3 there is a Hit Stun Timer. The timer starts as soon as the first hit of your combo begins. I'm not exactly sure if the counter counts up or counts down. My gut tells me it counts down, but the direction isn't very important. The timer momentarily stops every time a new attack actually lands. Some attacks completely stop the counter until the next successful hit. These attacks are, but not limited too : Wall Bounces, Ground Bounces, Soft Knock downs, Crumples. Some attacks have fixed amount of hit stun no matter what, I believe Dr. Strange's Impact Palm is an example of this, 35 frames? I'm still not sure what the state of the timer is during this scenario. My gut tells me that it freezes as well, and if a new move isn't registered by the time its over they recover. Some moves supposedly affect the decay timer negatively. I say supposedly because I haven't quite figured it out yet. For example, Thor's Mighty Smash is supposedly pretty bad towards hit decay. What I'm not sure about is if , this move actually adds time to the counter as a property of hitting it? or is it just bad because its kind of a long move with alot of start up and active frames, those frames are opportunities for the timer to keep running.

    So this means a few things 1) How fast you do your combos is a heavy factor. The longer you can pause the timer the better. 2) Doing moves that completely freeze the timer for later in the combo will be the most beneficial.

    There is still alot I don't know, i'm hoping to learn it soon tho. Hope this helps
    Stomping on Dis beat like a mothaf****ing Sigma
  • EsDwongEsDwong Joined: Posts: 99
    Oh yeah doesn't skullgirls actually show the hitstun bar when practicing combos? I remember watching it once. Another reason to buy skullgirls :D
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 7,360 ✭✭✭✭✭
    what doesn't?
    read the thread title... read my response
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
    Youtube(random doom TAC help, doom combos, ammy stuff, shuma combos and tech): http://www.youtube.com/user/Clickclakmoo?feature=mhee Danke on shuma gorath: "He who sleeps but shouldn't have costed me 5 dollars."
  • The Most UnknownThe Most Unknown Joined: Posts: 44
    Hey

    I have also been recently looking into this, and I'm going to explain this to you the same way it was explained to me the best I can. I'm by no means an expert , and I will likely miss some aspects of the system, but I'm learning just like you so I hope I at least provide some form of new knowledge.

    In UMVC3 there is a Hit Stun Timer. The timer starts as soon as the first hit of your combo begins. I'm not exactly sure if the counter counts up or counts down. My gut tells me it counts down, but the direction isn't very important. The timer momentarily stops every time a new attack actually lands. Some attacks completely stop the counter until the next successful hit. These attacks are, but not limited too : Wall Bounces, Ground Bounces, Soft Knock downs, Crumples. Some attacks have fixed amount of hit stun no matter what, I believe Dr. Strange's Impact Palm is an example of this, 35 frames? I'm still not sure what the state of the timer is during this scenario. My gut tells me that it freezes as well, and if a new move isn't registered by the time its over they recover. Some moves supposedly affect the decay timer negatively. I say supposedly because I haven't quite figured it out yet. For example, Thor's Mighty Smash is supposedly pretty bad towards hit decay. What I'm not sure about is if , this move actually adds time to the counter as a property of hitting it? or is it just bad because its kind of a long move with alot of start up and active frames, those frames are opportunities for the timer to keep running.

    So this means a few things 1) How fast you do your combos is a heavy factor. The longer you can pause the timer the better. 2) Doing moves that completely freeze the timer for later in the combo will be the most beneficial.

    There is still alot I don't know, i'm hoping to learn it soon tho. Hope this helps

    Thank you, this is indeed very helpful!
  • Smoothjazz101Smoothjazz101 Joined: Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭✭
    So I have it all wrong in thinking that there is a set amount of hitstun that just gets worse with more hits added in?

    I had it in my head that some attack types in particular (ground/wall bounces) knocked off large chunks of hitstun, whereas some add to it (upwards TACs). ]

    Thoughts?
    flagged as spam
  • ironboy89ironboy89 Beep Boop Beep Joined: Posts: 4,656 ✭✭✭
    For those curious what assist are immune or not to HSD.......this chart is useful.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgP5aijkvUNBdHlqM3V2Q2xrWnlaeU9FallMaGJHMlE&hl=en_US#gid=0
    If it says yes, nobody how long you are in the combo. If it connects, it won't decay.
    If it says no, it's not immune to HSD.
  • The Most UnknownThe Most Unknown Joined: Posts: 44
    For those curious what assist are immune or not to HSD.......this chart is useful.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgP5aijkvUNBdHlqM3V2Q2xrWnlaeU9FallMaGJHMlE&hl=en_US#gid=0
    If it says yes, nobody how long you are in the combo. If it connects, it won't decay.
    If it says no, it's not immune to HSD.

    Wow. That is amazing thanks. And as I figured, I am pretty sure alot of other people have questions regarding hit stun deterioration so feel free to ask other questions. I am sure there are a few I haven't asked.
  • EsDwongEsDwong Joined: Posts: 99
    So I have it all wrong in thinking that there is a set amount of hitstun that just gets worse with more hits added in?

    I had it in my head that some attack types in particular (ground/wall bounces) knocked off large chunks of hitstun, whereas some add to it (upwards TACs). ]

    Thoughts?

    Yeah I thought the same too. It would seem reasonable if every hit had some sort of hitstun value it would prevent combo from becoming infinites but I guess I got to the wrong train of thought.
  • NooneyouknowNooneyouknow Joined: Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭
    Yeah I thought the same too. It would seem reasonable if every hit had some sort of hitstun value it would prevent combo from becoming infinites but I guess I got to the wrong train of thought.

    Every hit does have a set hit stun value, both an initial and a minimum. That value just has nothing to do with the rate of decay, which is simply done via timer after the combo starts. TACs, in any direction, reset and suspend hit stun decay until either character touches the ground again.
    XBL:Nooneyouknow13
  • CougarCougar Logic, yo. Joined: Posts: 1,528
    This is my theory on how hitstun deterioration works. I do not come prepared with videos to support my case, but with past experiences and extensive labbing. Bear in mind that this is all speculation, but that it is speculation with some in-game evidence to back it up.

    First of all, HSD is a timer. From the very first hit of the combo, it is activated and begins ticking downward. Every move has a base hitstun value and a minimum hitstun value. As the timer ticks downward, the moves slowly transition from their base value to their minimum value. The minimum value for each move differs from move to move, but I believe the lowest value of any move is 4 frames. I could be wrong, though. That is the system in a nutshell; a timer that decreases a move's hitstun as it nears zero. It seems really simple, and that's because I haven't started discussing the different factors that affect the timer.

    As you may know, all the timers in the game, be it for X Factor or powerup hypers, freeze momentarily when the person using the timer lands a hit. I call this the Timer Freeze Property. This property also applies to the HSD timer, from what I can tell. Although it's hard to create a test that tells for sure, it makes logical sense and it seems to pop up a bit in the game when people delay their moves too much.

    The next interesting property is that, from what I can tell, a certain amount of time is re-added to the HSD timer when the opponent is launched, and a flying screen occurs. This theory has great merit to it; one who regularly plays Doctor Strange can relate to this property quite well. You see, in Strange's Air Impact Palm loops, there comes a point where if you try to do Jumping MMH xx Impact Palm just one more time, they fall out. If you launch them, however, the Jumping MMH xx Impact Palm works again.

    Now, before HSD was fully explored, the common argument against this theory was that the flying screen HSD and regular HSD were separate. However, with some tricky timing, Strange can do an entire combo without launching, and when he finally does launch, his air series will not work. This can be verified with many other characters, too, making the theory presumably valid.

    Something that I haven't quite figured out the details of are the way special opponent states affect the HSD timer. From what I have observed, however, I can guess that the HSD timer never stops running, and that not even special states alter the flow of the timer. In several combos with groundbounce starters, I've found that the timer definitely continues running during bouncing states. It also definitely continues running during hard knockdowns, and soft knockdowns mark the end of a combo. That leaves two special opponent states that I haven't figured out.

    •Crumple state
    •Special hitstun state

    A special hitstun state is a state where the opponent is placed in some sort of fixed or mechanically different hitstun, such as a spinning knockdown or the fixed hitstun caused by Strange's Air Impact Palm. It is unknown whether or not the timer runs during these states, but I firmly believe that it does. Sadly, I have no evidence to support this except for experience with combos. As for crumple states, I believe it runs there as well, although it may run slower than normal.

    Finally, TAC's affect hitstun in some way that I cannot exactly tell. I know the amount of hitstun the incoming character has to work with is proportionate to the length of the original character's combo, but the extent of this is unknown. Upon a TAC, the HSD timer is temporarily reset to a given amount, where it appears to stay until the new character lands. Once the new character touches the ground, the HSD timer is set to the original time, minus the time of the entire combo. That's what I can tell. In case you weren't aware, a TAC also puts the opponent into a soft knockdown. I'm sure you knew that, though.

    Also, this goes without saying. The following moves are never affected by HSD, despite the fact that the timer keeps running.

    •Soft Knockdown
    •Hard Knockdown
    •Wallbounce
    •Groundbounce
    •Crumple
    •Spinning Knockdown
    •Fixed hitstun
    •Sequences in which moves hit more frequently than once every four (?) frames

    That pretty much wraps up my knowledge of HSD.
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  • maziodynemaziodyne I'll crush you in one strike! Joined: Posts: 7,563
    A special hitstun state is a state where the opponent is placed in some sort of fixed or mechanically different hitstun, such as a spinning knockdown or the fixed hitstun caused by Strange's Air Impact Palm. It is unknown whether or not the timer runs during these states, but I firmly believe that it does. Sadly, I have no evidence to support this except for experience with combos. As for crumple states, I believe it runs there as well, although it may run slower than normal.

    just to verify: the opponent is put in exactly 35 (I believe) frames of hitstun whenever Impact Palm lands. this is also the case with uncharged Flames of the Faltine. this move also ignores hitstun deterioration and also places the opponent in a constant number of frames on hit. the only reason why the Palm xx Flames infinite does not work outside of X-Factor is because the 18 frames needed for Strange to recover offsets the hitstun (and +3 frame adv) of FoF. if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's somewhere between 10-15 frames.

    oh, and speaking of which... you'll want to check the combo thread. we're definitely on to something there. Strange's damage is going to skyrocket soon. ;)
    Retired Mahvel scrub.
  • masonmason Joined: Posts: 663 ✭✭✭
    Amazing post, Cougar. So since you say that the lowest hitstun amount you can get is ~4 frames, does that mean if I can put a standing jab at the end of my combo, I can always cancel it into a snapback that will hit (all snapbacks have 2 frame startup)?
    Laughter 7: Well, this is strange. At the GodsGarden that just went down, Momochi picked Dhalsim (beat Daigo 10-8 too!). Is this mofo ever coming back to Gouki?!
  • NooneyouknowNooneyouknow Joined: Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭

    As you may know, all the timers in the game, be it for X Factor or powerup hypers, freeze momentarily when the person using the timer lands a hit. I call this the Timer Freeze Property. This property also applies to the HSD timer, from what I can tell. Although it's hard to create a test that tells for sure, it makes logical sense and it seems to pop up a bit in the game when people delay their moves too much.

    Honestly, it's just simple hit stop. Hit stop freezes the entire game for several frames whenever a hit is landed. This is actually true of most games. Very nice write up overall though.
    XBL:Nooneyouknow13
  • Chef BorjanChef Borjan Joined: Posts: 807
    So the whole mantra of 'the more hits a move does the more hitstun scaling it does' is rubbish then? It's only true because generally a move that hits more does takes more time, but if a move does more hits, but does so in a less amount of time, then there will be less hitstun deterioration for the rest of the combo?

    Fantastic insight this btw.
  • CougarCougar Logic, yo. Joined: Posts: 1,528
    Amazing post, Cougar. So since you say that the lowest hitstun amount you can get is ~4 frames, does that mean if I can put a standing jab at the end of my combo, I can always cancel it into a snapback that will hit (all snapbacks have 2 frame startup)?

    Honestly I'm not sure, simply because I didn't test that information. Someone else made a long post on HSD a while back and that's what he said. The only reason I actually posted it was because it does a rather good job explaining why beams always hit fully, regardless of HSD. I'll test that for you later.

    And Chef Borjan, I think so. There may be some multi-hitting moves that fail to freeze the timer, but I'm not sure.
    [ Magneto | Nova | Sentinel ]
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    PSN: TheCougar44. Add me if you want to play some matches!
  • CougarCougar Logic, yo. Joined: Posts: 1,528
    So I just tested, and every time I did St.L xx SnapBack, regardless of the combo length before it, the SnapBack worked.
    [ Magneto | Nova | Sentinel ]
    UMvC3: [Strange/Haggar/Arthur] Low tier heroes, represent!
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  • DarksimDarksim Joined: Posts: 896
    The next interesting property is that, from what I can tell, a certain amount of time is re-added to the HSD timer when the opponent is launched, and a flying screen occurs.

    Air normals cause more hitstun in superjump state than they do in a regular jump state. Take Sentinel, who normally cannot combo his j.L into his j.S. Launch them (which puts you in super jump state), and it will work.

    Interestingly, flight mode retains the hitstun of whatever state it was started in. Starting flight from the ground has the same effect as starting it from a normal jump. Starting flight from a super jump and flying down (Or, a tigerknee flight) still gives the same hitstun that you would have at super jump height. This allows j.L to combo into j.S.

    You could also set the dummy to normal jump, and kick him/her with Sentinel's j.M. You can visually see the difference in the amount of hitstun there is when you fly in a super jump state versus when you do not.
  • The Most UnknownThe Most Unknown Joined: Posts: 44
    This is my theory on how hitstun deterioration works. I do not come prepared with videos to support my case, but with past experiences and extensive labbing. Bear in mind that this is all speculation, but that it is speculation with some in-game evidence to back it up.

    First of all, HSD is a timer. From the very first hit of the combo, it is activated and begins ticking downward. Every move has a base hitstun value and a minimum hitstun value. As the timer ticks downward, the moves slowly transition from their base value to their minimum value. The minimum value for each move differs from move to move, but I believe the lowest value of any move is 4 frames. I could be wrong, though. That is the system in a nutshell; a timer that decreases a move's hitstun as it nears zero. It seems really simple, and that's because I haven't started discussing the different factors that affect the timer.

    As you may know, all the timers in the game, be it for X Factor or powerup hypers, freeze momentarily when the person using the timer lands a hit. I call this the Timer Freeze Property. This property also applies to the HSD timer, from what I can tell. Although it's hard to create a test that tells for sure, it makes logical sense and it seems to pop up a bit in the game when people delay their moves too much.

    The next interesting property is that, from what I can tell, a certain amount of time is re-added to the HSD timer when the opponent is launched, and a flying screen occurs. This theory has great merit to it; one who regularly plays Doctor Strange can relate to this property quite well. You see, in Strange's Air Impact Palm loops, there comes a point where if you try to do Jumping MMH xx Impact Palm just one more time, they fall out. If you launch them, however, the Jumping MMH xx Impact Palm works again.

    Now, before HSD was fully explored, the common argument against this theory was that the flying screen HSD and regular HSD were separate. However, with some tricky timing, Strange can do an entire combo without launching, and when he finally does launch, his air series will not work. This can be verified with many other characters, too, making the theory presumably valid.

    Something that I haven't quite figured out the details of are the way special opponent states affect the HSD timer. From what I have observed, however, I can guess that the HSD timer never stops running, and that not even special states alter the flow of the timer. In several combos with groundbounce starters, I've found that the timer definitely continues running during bouncing states. It also definitely continues running during hard knockdowns, and soft knockdowns mark the end of a combo. That leaves two special opponent states that I haven't figured out.

    •Crumple state
    •Special hitstun state

    A special hitstun state is a state where the opponent is placed in some sort of fixed or mechanically different hitstun, such as a spinning knockdown or the fixed hitstun caused by Strange's Air Impact Palm. It is unknown whether or not the timer runs during these states, but I firmly believe that it does. Sadly, I have no evidence to support this except for experience with combos. As for crumple states, I believe it runs there as well, although it may run slower than normal.

    Finally, TAC's affect hitstun in some way that I cannot exactly tell. I know the amount of hitstun the incoming character has to work with is proportionate to the length of the original character's combo, but the extent of this is unknown. Upon a TAC, the HSD timer is temporarily reset to a given amount, where it appears to stay until the new character lands. Once the new character touches the ground, the HSD timer is set to the original time, minus the time of the entire combo. That's what I can tell. In case you weren't aware, a TAC also puts the opponent into a soft knockdown. I'm sure you knew that, though.

    Also, this goes without saying. The following moves are never affected by HSD, despite the fact that the timer keeps running.

    •Soft Knockdown
    •Hard Knockdown
    •Wallbounce
    •Groundbounce
    •Crumple
    •Spinning Knockdown
    •Fixed hitstun
    •Sequences in which moves hit more frequently than once every four (?) frames

    That pretty much wraps up my knowledge of HSD.

    Great post. Thanks, I was curious about the TAC because I was just informed about how HSD doesn't appear until after the character lands (I.E. Dr. Doom.)
  • taekuataekua Seeked warrior Joined: Posts: 55
    when HSD is severely high, there are some moves that cause wallbounce that even if connected would not cause wall bounce due to the distance between the opponent and the wall, if this distance is too much, opponent will recover before he wallbounces, will try to upload one vid to show off this... some of you may already experienced this...
  • Spartan_ThroneSpartan_Throne Iron Fist dabes Joined: Posts: 1,469 ✭✭
    To add to what others have said, in this video I showed the timer in action:



    The combo at the start works when starting in or near to the corner, but as shown from 1:18ish onwards, when started from midscreen, the extra time spent at the start of the combo when Thor was travelling towards the corner means that the :h: doesn't cause enough hitstun to combo into Drill Claw anymore.
    UMVC3 - Mags/Dorm/Doom ~ Wolv/Dorm/[Fist/Akuma/Doom]
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  • taekuataekua Seeked warrior Joined: Posts: 55
    ONE WALL BOUNCE PER COMBO, DUMBASS
    ... First of all, I know this, second... show some respect, I will tomorrow show with a video that when HSD is severely high wall bounce may sometimes not be achieved.. instead of just coming here to insult people, try to get an idea of what they are trying to expose ... peace...
  • TheDarkPhoenixTheDarkPhoenix BEHOLD! Joined: Posts: 12,134 mod
    I need to trim some of the fat out of this thread but in the mean time, discussion on HSD should go here. I don't think people truly realize how HSD works in marvel.
    "this game is about winning, If you had the option of a 1) Big dick or 2) a small dick, would you choose 2 because it took more skill? Thought not"
    -Bokkin
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 3,947
    ... First of all, I know this, second... show some respect, I will tomorrow show with a video that when HSD is severely high wall bounce may sometimes not be achieved.. instead of just coming here to insult people, try to get an idea of what they are trying to expose ... peace...

    That's interesting. It's funny because same thing can be said about launchers and sj:s:. When I was playing around with Storm I was doing some of her assisted combos into flight mode and after I launched and did my fly loops :s: just simply did not knock down like she was in super jump mode. I thought maybe I missed the launch in my rush to do the combo but the damage was the same meaning the launcher connected earlier.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
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  • TheDarkPhoenixTheDarkPhoenix BEHOLD! Joined: Posts: 12,134 mod
    ^ I actually had something like that happen to me with storm and taskmaster also..


    random side note..

    Out of all the threads and forums on srk, this one has the potential to change the game completely.
    "this game is about winning, If you had the option of a 1) Big dick or 2) a small dick, would you choose 2 because it took more skill? Thought not"
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  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 3,947
    Yeah I'm not sure how it works but I was able to optimize my throw damage with Spidey with a few changes. Now I'm able to get 800k off of a throw with him. Using assist of course

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • phantasyphantasy woob Joined: Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe taekua is talking about something different. Vergil's stinger doesn't have set knockback, and if your combo goes on long enough, sometimes it will not make the opponent hit the wall with its knockback even without using a wallbounce yet.

    -
    Hit stun deterioration (HSD). Hit stun decreases as the combo goes along.

    It runs on a timer. The timer is continues to run during TACs, but simply does not apply its effect on moves during TACs at all. The timer is slower on grounded opponents. The timer is faster on airborne opponents. The timer seems to go down a lot when you do a ground bounce, more than a normal juggle.

    A character that has super jumped has added hitstun to their attacks.
    I do not know if getting hit or blocking/pushblocking will get rid of the super jump state for hitstun. It does for the ability to call assists, however.

    Minimum hitstun of any attack, even when the HSD timer has run so long that every attack seems to have nearly no hitstun, will be 4 frames (I believe). It might be 3.
    So, any attack faster than 3-4 frames will always connect. Examples are any normal canceled into a snap back (1-2 frames dependent on character), Spencer normal canceled into point blank Armor Piercer (3 frame)

    Some attacks have their own special properties which allow them to always combo. For example, crumples, stuns, wall bounces, ground bounces, hard knockdown, soft knockdown (Vergil crH... why)
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 6,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Starting a combo with a special state inducing move (ground bounce, hard knockdown, wall-bounce, etc) seems to greatly reduce what you can do.

    I believe this is why most throw combos need to be shortened a great deal (except the ones that don't cause a hard knockdown like Mags or if you can catch your opponent before the hard knockdown like Doom, Thor or Iron Man).

    To test this, start a Doom combo with j.f+h and then start one with j.s. Even if you air dash down and catch them with cr.m, cr.h, s off the j.s, you won't be able to land nearly as much even though they take roughly the same time (and less time than a jump in like j.m).
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  • Nos99Nos99 Science Scrub Joined: Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭
    I believe if they are taken off their feet or not also matters.

    Basically, if you keep them on their feet (you hit them while they're standing), you'll get more time.. It's almost as if HSD doesn't kick in for a little bit if they're still on their feet.

    With throws, I'm not sure if the timer starts during the animation, or after they're let go... I haven't tested, but it should be fairly straightforward to test.
  • DrewGrimeyDrewGrimey Joined: Posts: 1,835
    when HSD is severely high, there are some moves that cause wallbounce that even if connected would not cause wall bounce due to the distance between the opponent and the wall, if this distance is too much, opponent will recover before he wallbounces, will try to upload one vid to show off this... some of you may already experienced this...
    yup, with my team I can do a full combo with viper, up tac to vergil and begin my sword loop. If I am mid-screen, vergil's stinger does not wall bounce since the opponent pops out before they hit the wall due to HSD, if they are in the corner than a wall bounce happens
    Viper/Vergil/Strider - Just playing the game to it's full potential
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 3,947
    So is this why after a long combo into TAC Dorm loop he can't perform super as usual?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • Dark SonicDark Sonic Joined: Posts: 1,052
    DID YOU KNOW?


    super jumping actually adds hitstun to your attacks. A regular jump j.H will have less hitstun than the same j.H performed in a super jump state.
    "The only thing Dante needs is more Dante, and that is EXACTLY what DT gives him" - OgreCasteel
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 3,947
    DID YOU KNOW?


    super jumping actually adds hitstun to your attacks. A regular jump j.H will have less hitstun than the same j.H performed in a super jump state.

    It also changes certain properties depending on how it's used. For example with Spidey after a web throw you can OTG zip into j:s: s:m: c:h:. You can also OTG into j:s: c:h: but it's slightly difficult due to them being low and sometimes the c:h: just straight crosses up. When you super jump air dash over though into OTG zip j:s: they somehow pop up high making it a lot easier to go from j:s: into c:h: while omitting the s:m: altogether to save on some hit stun. To be honest though I still think this has to do more with the camera though since the screen kinda bounces the moment I super jump and get over there but the effect is all the same.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • RaohRaoh AU Spider Joined: Posts: 919 ✭✭
    ... First of all, I know this, second... show some respect, I will tomorrow show with a video that when HSD is severely high wall bounce may sometimes not be achieved.. instead of just coming here to insult people, try to get an idea of what they are trying to expose ... peace...
    Yep, done this with Jill which was weird since her arrow kick assist still would cause wall bounce even after a long combo.
    Spider-Man - Combos and Tech
    PSN: KingRaou - Spider-Man/Hawkeye<>Dr.Doom
  • NooneyouknowNooneyouknow Joined: Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭
    Every hit does have a set hit stun value, both an initial and a minimum. That value just has nothing to do with the rate of decay, which is simply done via timer after the combo starts. TACs, in any direction, reset and suspend hit stun decay until either character touches the ground again.
    Going to quote my own old post here so I can amend this statement: TACs, in any direction, reset and suspend hit stun decay until the character performing the combo touches the ground outside of hitstop as the game cannot register the character landing if they during hitstop, allowing the TAC infnites to work.
    XBL:Nooneyouknow13
  • ZansamZansam Frank Time! Joined: Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭
    hits airborne VS grounded matters too; says so in the guide and there's ways to demonstrate the difference.
    The dream is dead.
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 6,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Going to quote my own old post here so I can amend this statement: TACs, in any direction, reset and suspend hit stun decay until the character performing the combo touches the ground outside of hitstop as the game cannot register the character landing if they during hitstop, allowing the TAC infnites to work.

    You should also specify that the timer keeps running in the background even during the TAC induced "histun limbo." As soon as they come out of it, it's as if HSD had been running the whole time.
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

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  • maziodynemaziodyne I'll crush you in one strike! Joined: Posts: 7,563
    super jumping actually adds hitstun to your attacks. A regular jump j.H will have less hitstun than the same j.H performed in a super jump state.

    Huh. Fun little factoid there. Good to know, I'll mess around with Magneto combos tomorrow and see how I can optimize stuff using this knowledge. No wonder normal jump j.H adf Magblast L messes up the rest of the combo a lot.
    Retired Mahvel scrub.
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 6,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Using a normal jump attack won't so much affect what's possible in the rest of the combo (barring, of course, the amount of time it sucks from the HSD timer), it simply inflicts less base hit stun than a super jump normal.

    Once hitstun is stretched all the way (minus a few exceptions of course), both jumping and super jumping normals should inflict 4 frames of hitstun.
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • phantasyphantasy woob Joined: Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am just going to assume 80% of the people who posted after me didn't read my post
  • TheDarkPhoenixTheDarkPhoenix BEHOLD! Joined: Posts: 12,134 mod
    "this game is about winning, If you had the option of a 1) Big dick or 2) a small dick, would you choose 2 because it took more skill? Thought not"
    -Bokkin
  • stefantenstefanten Joined: Posts: 62
    "Hyper Grav resets any stored spikes / launch state"

    What does this mean? Specifically the "stored spikes" part.
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  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 6,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It means hitting a launched opponent with j.:s: won't slam them into the ground after a hyper grav unless you launch them again afterwards.
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • phantasyphantasy woob Joined: Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh yeah, also, cinematics freeze the HSD timer, i am 99% sure. i.e. web throw, supers like dark angel.

    unlike TACs, the HSD timer just doesn't run during cinematics.

    However, xfactor timer does.

    HSD is weird.

    Amended - web throw freezes the HSD timer it would seem. Cinematics seem to freeze them but they might set it to a point so that the hitstun for the combo is noticeably lower.
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