tataki, post: 6480267, member: 4806 wrote:
I can't believe people here are still thinking the claim in this thread is that the best way to abuse the system is to do reversals ALL the time, and not the minimal amount needed to get the opponent to stop attacking regularly. We spelled it out for you guys multiple times and you still fail to grasp this.
It's that once in a while reversal that will make you scared to attack half of the time.
HAV, post: 6481011, member: 536 wrote:
So, the threat of a reversal makes you afraid to attack... and this is, somehow, exclusive to SF4?
Reversals in every game serve as a threat. That's what they do. Every game has reversals that can potentially turn the tide.
Hell, SF4 has more anti-reversal technology than any other game I can think of. If you're scared of reversals it's because you don't know how to attack in SF4. That's all there is to this.
tataki, post: 6481085, member: 4806 wrote:
All the things you say were ALREADY addressed in previous comments in this very thread. Do you need me to quote the exact responses for you?
HAV, post: 6481148, member: 536 wrote:
If you know your options, and know the game system, you know you can attack SUPER safely, in almost every situation.
HAV, post: 6481148, member: 536 wrote:
Um... sorry for not reading every post in this silly thread?
Save yourself the trouble of digging up responses. I know when I'm just right, and this is one of those times.
Branh0913, post: 6481114, member: 3277 wrote:
Don't listen to Tataki, he wants every game to be an anime fighter.
tataki, post: 6481893, member: 4806 wrote:
Stay ignorant, as you have already proven in other posts.
I like whatever that is done well, regardless of style.
GG MB AH etc. are anime FGs done well.
ST is an example of a SF done well, despite having its known share of problems. HF is probably at the same situation.
Mr. Warzard, post: 6482222, member: 13682 wrote:
@Branh I wouldn't be so quick to assume bad faith. Things are fun and not fun to people for reasons that can, believe it or not, be logical.
Gems, post: 6466002, member: 62782 wrote:
Main reasons I dislike SF4: Incredibly slow walk speeds, low blockstun, huge reversal window, shit throws (at least for walking up and throwing) and autocorrect conspire to make footsie-based offense pretty damn weak in general. You can still do offense because of the myriad option selects, safejumps and vortexes, but this isn't the kind of offense I find satisfying; rather than actively engaging with your opponent and pressing an advantage on the ground, you wait for a knockdown so you can run absurdly overpowered set plays. Not only is the amount of knowledge required to do basic offense (frame traps, safejump setups off different knockdowns vs. different characters, OSes vs. different characters) absurd compared to the amount of knowledge required to do basic defense (late tech, autocorrect DP), but you're pretty much forced to do offense in a very specific way. There is no creativity because trying to get creative will result in you getting DPed. Then you have characters like Seth and Viper who can pretty much spazz out and do whatever while ignoring the ground game entirely, which is the kind of offensive play which nets by far the most rewards in SF4.
HAV, post: 6517042, member: 536 wrote:
And here I thought I shut down this silly thread with one post.
OK, so the problem with the post that you quoted is that it completely glosses over the mid range game, and simply states that you "wait for a knockdown so you can run absurdly overpowered set plays". There is a rewarding footsie-based game that just got completely marginalized and ignored with half a sentence worth of commentary.
Now, as for the contention that you cannot apply safe pressure until you get a knockdown... that is true in every game. I can't think of too many situations in any game, in which you can apply pressure to your opponent, without fear of retribution, if they are in a standing neutral position. Sure, some games lay on the offensive options to the point that defense stands little chance (ie. MvC3). Personally, I think those games suck. I think there needs to be a balance. I think SF4 has that balance. Yeah, your offense has to be a little smarter than the defense, but because defense in SF4 is so basic, it's almost universal... it's easier to develop your offense to account for it. I don't think you can say offense needing to be smarter than defense is a knock to the game's design.
You bring up CvS2 as this game that allows for safe pressure without needing a knockdown. I don't remember that shit. I remember CvS2 being the game with the BEST mid-range normals ever. It was extremely hard to apply any real pressure, without running into some great poke. The game was played almost entirely at mid range. Yeah, running and RC added satisfying elements to the mid-range footsie game that made it more interesting than average SF footsies, but at the end of the day, the GREAT buttons most characters had still killed outright pressure more often than not.
Obviously, that match represents an extreme case (and I was standing right there, for that match, and it's still one of my favorite CvS2 matches ever), but it's an extreme case that can only exist because of the strength of defense in CvS2. Let's not pretend that CvS2 was this utopia for sheer aggression. Throughout it's tournament life, it was considered THE defensive game. It definitely allowed for offense, and some of the best players were players that had the most intelligent offenses (Buktooth, Combofiend, BAS), but a lot of the best players were lame as fuck (Justin, Steve H, HaK, Ricky, etc.). I was a particularly offensive player in CvS2 (though a lot of people wouldn't even agree with that, since my Hibiki was SUPER lame a lot of the time), and even I know the game wasn't really built around promoting offense.
BulimicCannibal, post: 6575301, member: 23883 wrote:
Personally I love the game but there are a few things that really annoy me...
The game seems to favour the defender massively, what should be an advantagous position instead
often turns into a massive risk i.e opponent mashing D.P when you're trying to apply pressure or in
the middle of a link hoping you drop it. And of course the best way to counter this is to block, which
just leads the game into a greater defensive focus.
I'm not saying I prefer games to be really offensive like Marvel, I just like some kind of balance.
HAV, post: 6576064, member: 536 wrote:
I don't necessarily agree that those situations favor the attacker, but I do find it interesting that everybody claims how defensive SF4 is, yet defensive characters almost never win tournaments.
Rufus, Abel, Yun, Cammy, Akuma, Adon, etc., have won way more tournaments than Honda, Guile, Sim, etc.
Emanuelb, post: 6475680, member: 50800 wrote:
The fact is, SF4 is a wonderfull game, and the best fg that came in over a decade.
Emanuelb, post: 6475756, member: 50800 wrote:
That really doesn't matter (and I've played a few)
Emanuelb, post: 6475808, member: 50800 wrote:
Those reviewers are people whose their jobs is to analyze video games - that's why usually they are more trustworthy than a random guy who says that game X sucks. So, if dozens of reviewers consider SF4 the best fighting game of the decade, than that means something.
M.D., post: 6463718, member: 9219 wrote:
I'm more interested in hearing why people think SF4 is a good series.
I haven't played this game since Evo but all I need is a spreadsheet of unblockables to win!
Javed Patel, post: 7880318, member: 77824 wrote:
sorrowstick needs to learn criticism is a part of every day life and not necessarily a bad thing.
If there was no criticism there'd be no 'improvements' or changes to the game at all.
Javed Patel, post: 7616572, member: 77824 wrote:
Capcom doesn't give a poop about the FGC as much as they do the newbie's/scrubby kids/people who play it every now and then as they make up most of the marketing audience.
No one would buy it if it was super hard they actuallly had to do a forward, down, down forward, forward motion to play.
You should see my cousins... they start celebrating when they do a hadouken/shoryuken LOL...
mapleleafs791, post: 7916084, member: 69336 wrote:
i think its because i never played fighers (i was all counterstrike, MMO's, and SC2 before picking up SF4) but are shortcuts really that bad? i feel like i did the non shortcut srk for most of the time untill i learned you could shortcut it 2 months ago lol. and even when i play sagat you cant shortcut the kara+dp.
Other shortcuts i may not know about i wont say anything about but the srk shortcut seems pretty trivial
like i cant even use the shortcuts for cody but it doesnt bother me
but hey im one of those 09ers so i guess i dont count for shit :S
Norieaga, post: 7916110, member: 12841 wrote:
What I don't like...
I also don't feel like SF4 has taught people fundamentals, as too many times, for example, people focus an air attack instead of AA'ing it. I feel like the game teaches people some bad habits.
XthAtGAm3RGuYX, post: 7916107, member: 55729 wrote:
I've always figured it was always old cake mews who are mad it doesn't use sprites, who don't like the game. That's what I've heard the most. I've also never understood the problem with the shortcuts. You don't HAVE to use them and if they come out on accident it's because your execution is sloppy and needs practice.
shoyster, post: 7927665, member: 83508 wrote:
TheMeth90, post: 7929317, member: 47700 wrote:
So... it's a bad series for some good reasons yeah, but a lot of people is still playing it. Why?