What makes SF4 a "bad" series?

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  • konkretekonkrete NCV Joined: Posts: 2,380
    Rufus truth
    I didn't really give that thought, but when I dreamt in my heart of hearts in that post I imagined Rufus didn't exist. I guess elf either now that I think about it.... I just feel it's just a handicap on the combo system that was introduced as an artificial skill barrier, and--as you bring up--a way to limit certain characters at the expense of others.
  • tatakitataki misplaced Joined: Posts: 7,700
    it's the combination of factors
    It's always a combination of several rules. It's never one rule in a vacuum. But yeah I know what you mean. :)
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  • Branh0913Branh0913 Keep away king Joined: Posts: 3,642
    Things I like:

    Matchups
    No parries
    Emphasis on ground game
    Diverse playstyles (good mixture of offensive and defensive characters)
    Best Roster ever in a SF game (this can't really be disputed)
    Great online netcode


    Things I hate:

    Low damage (making doing dumb things less risky)
    Non-SF characters (Viper and Fuete comes to mind)
    Focus attacks
    Generally mashing is a better option than blocking
    Some hitboxes are floaty
    Too many anti zoning tactics
    Charge characters aren't that great in this game.


    Overall SFIV is a decent series, and I have minor complaints. My biggest complain is the low damage output in the game. But I can see why it's that way, if only to entire newer players to play it more. I don't think DP mashing is that big of a deal, since they're more than baitable, and this issue can pretty much become a non issue when you learn your one frame links. I also don't think backdashing is all that great either. Anyone can option select them pretty well and easiy (OS sweep is pretty simple to learn).

    My real issue is focus attacks. Sometimes when you really are destroying someone on the ground, they will start just spazing out with focus attacks and fishing with them. I find that they're too hard to punish without taking big risk (most focus breakers aren't that safe). In really hate this mechanic, and it really does punish footsies (what this game should be about). I really do hate characters like Viper and Fuete, who are clearly playing a different game entirely. It's hard to keep them grounded.

    Lastly, I hate the fact no one blocks in this game. Almost everyone in this game gets up pressing buttons. The very fact that this seems like a good options kind of makes the game dumb. Sure you can punish this stuff, but it is really annoying.

    Due to all of the wakeup stuff you can do in this game, it make lockdowns a little cumbersome. But keep in mind, you have to apply unique pressure each time, which means that you can't just go into autopilot when you have someone in the corner. To me this makes the game a little smarter because you have to think about your pressure, and leave gaps for bait while maintaining your position. I think a lot of people want kind of mindless pressure and block strings where they don't have to respect someone's wakeup. A lot of times, SFIV is about making people beat themselves, and you don't get any smarter than that. In a lot of cases people need to block and anticipate a throw. But often times they crouch tech, or mash buttons leaving them open to counter hit setups. Again, that's someone who is beating themselves. at the same time, a throw, or a sweep can lead to oki situations, where many characters have true 50/50, or safejumps. I wish this game more zoning more potent, but then again, in ST I could just mindlessly throw sonic booms, and in this game I incorporate pokes and baits in my sonic boom pressure. I think the spacing part is interesting, but I can understand that doesn't attract a lot of people to the game.
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  • HAVHAV iori respawn Joined: Posts: 9,503
    Blocking is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than not blocking in SF4.

    Yeah, plenty of players would rather wiggle the stick and smack buttons, instead of blocking, but blocking is still the better option in most cases.

    Which brings up SF4's worst quality... the players.

    You can see it in this thread. So many of the players have no fucking idea what they're talking about, and so many players think dumb shit is a good idea... the SF4 player base knows less about their game, than almost any other contingency. It's to be expected from such a HUGE game, and it's not SF4's fault on its own, but it is an issue when playing.

    You have to wade through so much trash, to get to the good. It's frustrating. I found SF4 to get better and better as time went on (until they killed Yang, and I decided to just play KOF), and I think that had a LOT to do with the fact that the players became less of a chore to play against, as time went on.

    Even still though, SF4 players know less about SF4, than any other community knows about their game, just on the average level.
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    It's slow.
    Mostly boils down to 1st knock down wins.
    Universally poor/skewed wake up mechanics.
    The Viper/Seth/Fuerte "random" character archetype makes for an unpleasant experience for most coming from more methodic classic games.
    90% of the cast build offence on Jump in, cr.Jab, cr.Jab, cr.Jab/Throw etc.
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  • Branh0913Branh0913 Keep away king Joined: Posts: 3,642
    Blocking is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than not blocking in SF4.

    Yeah, plenty of players would rather wiggle the stick and smack buttons, instead of blocking, but blocking is still the better option in most cases.

    Which brings up SF4's worst quality... the players.

    You can see it in this thread. So many of the players have no fucking idea what they're talking about, and so many players think dumb shit is a good idea... the SF4 player base knows less about their game, than almost any other contingency. It's to be expected from such a HUGE game, and it's not SF4's fault on its own, but it is an issue when playing.

    You have to wade through so much trash, to get to the good. It's frustrating. I found SF4 to get better and better as time went on (until they killed Yang, and I decided to just play KOF), and I think that had a LOT to do with the fact that the players became less of a chore to play against, as time went on.

    Even still though, SF4 players know less about SF4, than any other community knows about their game, just on the average level.

    I agree that blocking is the best options. Because not blocking means you eat an option select which can lead to a hard knockdown sweep, or worse a full raw OS ultra. It's still, IMHO what puts Japan above us in this game. Japan players pretty much kill all of SSFIV non blocking defense with their superior knowledge of option selecting. The issue I have with the player base is that very few players can handle pressure. This goes back to my post, in SSFIV, in most cases you force your opponent to beat themselves. In this game, people HATE to be pressured, and it's not uncommon to see wakeup DPs, jabs, and all sorts of other stuff out of pressure. About 90% of the playerbase on XBL and PSN never blocks.


    I personally think if this game evolves, unblockables will becomes the potent thing in this game, but the whole non blocking demographic is going to take a long time to die down. Blocking isn't something every top player is aware of either. You still see top US players get option selected because they backdash, or counter hit because they mash jab in the middle of block string pressure. That is kind of what's keeping Japan on top.
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  • AustinSwaggersAustinSwaggers Well-Known Based God Joined: Posts: 111
    90% of the cast build offense on Jump in, cr.Jab, cr.Jab, cr.Jab/Throw etc.
    Yup,
    Especially for those who have Kara Throws. There's a few defensive measures for this technique i think though. I forgot, but yea the Jab technique can be varied by

    Jab,Jab, Bait & back dash to see if opponent will attempt something.
    Jab,Jab, OS
    Jab,Jab, Etc...


    Other then that, I think im the only one that finds Giefs Grab range a little much; & I like grapple characters. However, I feel you have to give him to much respectable space.
    See for yourself.

    This shows you how to extend it from neutral. I think this vid is before AE I believe too. Where his Jab SPD range was extended IIRC.

    Look @ 0:06 were she's standing & Gief's on the Red Line.


    Just saying, shit has always personally been shady to me. As a former Bison player. But hey... this must help his matchups.
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  • ponderingslothponderingsloth Word puncher Joined: Posts: 160
    I wonder how much of the SF4 hate is from people (not saying just in this thread) who are frustrated and disheartened by the online play, and not so much the actual game mechanics themselves. Scrub-tastic DP's are immensely more effective online where it's so much easier to drop 1- and 2-frame links, and escaping vortexes is far more difficult online as well. It's easy to hate the game when you eat a DP xx FADC xx ULTRA just for trying a combo and dropping it.

    Overall though, ultimately I think all this debate is indicative of the SF4 series being good, not bad. If it were bad, people wouldn't be playing it still, and certainly wouldn't be interested in arguing for/against it with this level of detail. It would have faded into obscurity like any other release that fails to keep people interested.

    I really hope Capcom takes into account all this criticism and makes the next SF something that allows for more creativity and raises the bar for online performance. If they don't, though, we have plenty of options for fighters now, with KOF XIII, Mortal Kombat, Soul Calibur V, and Skullgirls later this year. That's something to be grateful for, in spite of any dissapointment in SF4.
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  • GemsGems *Sees SFxT* *Backs away slowly* Joined: Posts: 163
    People would be playing SF4 no matter how it played, so long as it wasn't a total mess.
  • InfilInfil una catástrofe con una pelota de beisbol Joined: Posts: 8,629
    I didn't really give that thought, but when I dreamt in my heart of hearts in that post I imagined Rufus didn't exist. I guess elf either now that I think about it.... I just feel it's just a handicap on the combo system that was introduced as an artificial skill barrier, and--as you bring up--a way to limit certain characters at the expense of others.

    I'm not sure how "artificial" the skill barrier is... it's an intentional skill barrier meant to limit what the character can do. Just like how any other 1 frame link is intentionally so because the combo would be "too good" if the link was easier (I'm aware there are some exceptions to this, but it's a good general rule).

    I just think the game would be a lot dumber if Fei is guaranteed to get rekkas after mashing low short, or if Rufus could easily convert after dive kick -> mash jab into EX tornado (now into ultra!) or whatever. If people think there's a lot of low short/low jab mashing now... there'd be little reason to use any other buttons with certain characters. At least if you want the reward in the current system, you have to hit a tough link. The risk/reward keeps it in check.

    Other games tend to let you cancel into super off low shorts and stuff, but the pushback in those games on block is pretty high. IMO, given the other design choices for SF4, not canceling chained normals is the correct choice.
    People would be playing SF4 no matter how it played, so long as it wasn't a total mess.

    Eh, is this true? AE still gets tons of entrants in most FG tournaments, even now that there are other games, and if you're talking about random XBL players, there are so many other online games to play, yet lots still play this. Bad games die on XBL really fast.
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  • Guy PlayerGuy Player Bushin-ryu practitioner. Joined: Posts: 101
    What I dislike the most:

    1- Mash friendly.
    2- Seths wakeup game is 50/50 retard. Real wheel of fortune after first knockdown.
    3- No room for zoning/poking (old skool) game.
    4- Tech throws need psychic habilities. So people tend to mash cr.lk tech OS during blockstrings.
    5- Kens kara throw range is retard.
    6- Some characters have tools completely out of their style, creating a myriad of aternatives that other same style characters have not.
    7- Guy, my main, sucks a lot no matter how they try to give him a chance. He was bad designed.
  • RaasRaas You're getting CARELESS! Joined: Posts: 744
    Yun. Thank God THATs over with.

    Seriously tho, I would say SF4 had its ups and downs over the iterations[2012 I honestly think it pretty close to awesome] but its overall been a fairly solid entry.

    ONLINE however can suck a fat load, I personally blame that for a lot of the attitudes of SF players nowadays- but that's not an SF4 issue persay...
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  • chachadesmondchachadesmond this micropenis is destroying my life Joined: Posts: 237
    What I dislike the most:

    1- Mash friendly.
    2- Seths wakeup game is 50/50 retard. Real wheel of fortune after first knockdown.
    3- No room for zoning/poking (old skool) game.
    4- Tech throws need psychic habilities. So people tend to mash cr.lk tech OS during blockstrings.
    5- Kens kara throw range is retard.
    6- Some characters have tools completely out of their style, creating a myriad of aternatives that other same style characters have not.
    7- Guy, my main, sucks a lot no matter how they try to give him a chance. He was bad designed.

    what makes sf4 a bad series? scrubs like you
  • Guy PlayerGuy Player Bushin-ryu practitioner. Joined: Posts: 101
    what makes sf4 a bad series? scrubs like you

    1- Players don't make a game bad, no matter how scrub like me they are.
    2- I didn't even said SF4 is bad, only stated somethings I personally dislike. People like and dislike stuff, they have opinions, it's normal.
    3- If my post was pure nonsense scrub garbage (probably was), you have a better alternative than attack me: explain why.
    4- Call people scrub wont change peoples mind about something.

    Best regards.
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,267
    It's always trendy and cool to hate what's popular, and since SF4 is THE most popular FG, it's easy to understand why there's so much hate.
    Btw, some complains are really dumb. I'll just give an example:
    - "the window for reversals is to big - it should be 1 frame like in good ol days".
    Well, have you ever considered how Viper or Seth would be if reversals would have a 1 frame window ? Those characters are already deadly after a KD.
    The fact is, SF4 is a wonderfull game, and the best fg that came in over a decade.


  • GemsGems *Sees SFxT* *Backs away slowly* Joined: Posts: 163
    It's always trendy and cool to hate what's popular, and since SF4 is THE most popular FG, it's easy to understand why there's so much hate.
    Btw, some complains are really dumb. I'll just give an example:
    - "the window for reversals is to big - it should be 1 frame like in good ol days".
    Well, have you ever considered how Viper or Seth would be if reversals would have a 1 frame window ? Those characters are already deadly after a KD.
    The fact is, SF4 is a wonderfull game, and the best fg that came in over a decade.

    I really wonder how many of the past decade's fighting games you've actually played.
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,267
  • deadfrogdeadfrog Joined: Joined: Posts: 6,787
    hahahah
    this is incredible and probably my favourite post in at least a week
  • GemsGems *Sees SFxT* *Backs away slowly* Joined: Posts: 163

    In a perfect world this would be a ban-worthy post.
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,267
    So in your perfect world people who back up their ideas with arguments should be banned. Sorry, next time I'll go with "I hate Sf because my main sucks".
    EDIT:
    To elaborate a little: in order to decide which is the best fg for the last decade, someone should:
    1. play all the fgs released in that decade (and there's a lot of them - I don't think anyone played all of them)
    2. Not only play them, but play them at a high level (all of them)
    3. having a good understanding of what makes a good fg.

    But of course, you can't check how many games i've played, or how much, or even how knowledgeable I am. I'm just a random srk dude who throws random thoughts - just like you and everybody else around here (except for a few people like Jozhear). That's why my personal oppinion doesn't count much, and instead of that, I backed up my argument with some professional oppinions.
    The link I provided is an agregator - it gathers reviews for video games. Those reviewers are people whose their jobs is to analyze video games - that's why usually they are more trustworthy than a random guy who says that game X sucks. So, if dozens of reviewers consider SF4 the best fighting game of the decade, than that means something.

    And to point a couple of things regarding earlier instalments in SF series: - all of them had issues:
    SF3: terrible balance - a Chun/Yun/Ken fest. And people complain of Yun in AE.
    SF2:
    - do you remember that in ssf2 there was a character that has to be banned ?
    - or another one that was soft banned in Japan ? (in a game with 16 chars, not 39, mind you)
    - ridiculous damage output (you could die in 2 sec - metaphorically speaking) - yes, some people like this, but this means luck plays a more important role (I need 2 lucky guesses to kill you).
    - how many matches were really...

    Anyway, I think many who complain that SF4 is too beginner friendly forget that one of the strongest points of SF2 - was - accesibilitty. Yes, meaning that everybody could (and would like) to play it.
    ps: sorry if my english is not the best - i'm not an english speaker.


  • MalvadiscoMalvadisco Marambio Joined: Posts: 2,967
    SF2:
    - do you remember that in ssf2 there was a character that has to be banned ?
    - or another one that was soft banned in Japan ? (in a game with 16 chars, not 39, mind you)
    - ridiculous damage output (you could die in 2 sec - metaphorically speaking) - yes, some people like this, but this means luck plays a more important role (I need 2 lucky guesses to kill you).

    if you think that sf2 is about 2 lucky guesses then you dont know anything about SF at all. SF2 series rewards BLOCKING, if you block something you can punish it hard, if you do something stupid you get punished, yes there are bad match ups (honda vs gief is 9-1, 8.5-1.5 for some purist) but the only time you get ToD´d is opening like an idiot (ie. classic ryu vs bipson, ryu opens with hado, bipson jumps into ToD, good ryus know this, choosing safer openings is very common, etc).

    SF4 is a fine game, but with so many stupid BS, i dont bother with the mashing anymore, but i do hate that some BnB´s doesnt work because stupid hitboxes here and there... and i do miss meatys in this series; 1f reversal is a risk against seth, but no so much against viper (the real problem is when you block her BK, she is in adv most of the time, thats annoying), but 1f reversal means that your meaties are an option, if they messed up they eat a combo for being stupid... input leniency is very annoying when you need to do something and for some reason the engine registers other move (ie. hakan 360/srk overlap, bipson ultra/teleport, chun u1/EX hazanshu, etc)... the last thing, EX moves should be the only moves allowed with Invul. frames, but thats me
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  • Perfect_FramesPerfect_Frames SRK's Resident Genius Joined: Posts: 251
    what_the_fuck_am_I_reading.png




    This is may be the dumbest thread I have read on SRK in a long time.


    Congrats.
  • mowrmowr VROOM VROOM! Joined: Posts: 6,695
    Characters who ignore the fundamentals of SF in a SF game is my biggest complain with SF4. I don't mind vortexes, but only when they are a reward for playing SF first. Characters like Viper can just fly across the screen and put you in frame disadvantage. That's bullshit.
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  • GemsGems *Sees SFxT* *Backs away slowly* Joined: Posts: 163
    Those reviewers are people whose their jobs is to analyze video games - that's why usually they are more trustworthy than a random guy who says that game X sucks. So, if dozens of reviewers consider SF4 the best fighting game of the decade, than that means something.

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/dead-or-alive-4
  • AustinSwaggersAustinSwaggers Well-Known Based God Joined: Posts: 111
    Snip....
    I think you mean....
    what_the_fuck_am_I_reading%2520copy.jpg

    There's plenty of well said problems about SF4 pointed out in this thread. Some of the people who have played this game at a high level have generously pointed out the shady things or made past statements about the game that you can see in this thread . HAV for one who's played Yang & Abel at a high level. Or if you read the first couple post you"ll see the few other well-known SF4 players statements.

    You can even see the first post I made that showed a video of Champ, Ross, & etc. talking about what Japan even thinks about characters like Viper.
    Trust me, I used to be a SF4 addict back in 09 to super. Played every day after school for hours on the terrible Vanilla online connections. The game is not 110% shitty, however there's still plenty of various valid issues that are serious problems to this 4 series; that I myself to came too a understanding & personally learned playing this game over time.
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  • Perfect_FramesPerfect_Frames SRK's Resident Genius Joined: Posts: 251
    snip.



    I was referring to the idiots, including yourself, posting a near constant stream of drivel in this thread, way to completely miss the fucking joke. You must be a really fun guy to interact with socially.

    Sure there are are some good posts here and there, but by and large the majority are just the whining of scrubs with minimal understanding of the game and the rest are actual good players (such as HAV and Jozhear) explaining to the retarded masses things that should be self evident.

    Additionally, how do you have any basis for judging my understanding of the game from this post? I, however, can make several inferences from your postings about your understanding of the game. Please continue to think that Kara-Throws and Gief's SPD range are the "shady" things in SF4.


    Seriously, fuck off guy.
  • EveryFlowerFlowEveryFlowerFlow You Want Pain? Aegis Reflector Joined: Posts: 3,781
    The link I provided is an agregator - it gathers reviews for video games. Those reviewers are people whose their jobs is to analyze video games - that's why usually they are more trustworthy than a random guy who says that game X sucks. So, if dozens of reviewers consider SF4 the best fighting game of the decade, than that means something.


    I did lol. I won't even touch the rest of the post.
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  • JoshkazJoshkaz Princess Luna is my Waifu Joined: Posts: 15,281
    Anyone who actually goes by reviews on if a game is good or not as no right to speak.
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  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    It's always trendy and cool to hate what's popular, and since SF4 is THE most popular FG, it's easy to understand why there's so much hate.
    Btw, some complains are really dumb. I'll just give an example:
    - "the window for reversals is to big - it should be 1 frame like in good ol days".
    Well, have you ever considered how Viper or Seth would be if reversals would have a 1 frame window ? Those characters are already deadly after a KD.
    The fact is, SF4 is a wonderfull game, and the best fg that came in over a decade.
    From 98 to 08? Hell no!
    You did not go back in time, this is how the forums look.
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  • yomipoweryomipower not a legendary game designer Joined: Posts: 1,167
    You can't really blow up a successful parry (I know Oro)
    Hugo and Gouki can also blow up parry. Gouki with for instance srk canceled into raging demon, or the infamous mostly guaranteed chip kill of hp red fireball xx demon (at least Hugo can escape it, I think) Hugo does it with his cancelable normals into Gigas, or by Gigas itself.
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  • ShinAkuma204ShinAkuma204 The Primordial Ooze Joined: Posts: 4,524
    Hugo and Gouki....

    You missed the point.
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  • yomipoweryomipower not a legendary game designer Joined: Posts: 1,167
    No, I got your point. I just though I'd point it out that it is possible, even if to only a few characters.
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  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 3,267
    if you think that sf2 is about 2 lucky guesses then you dont know anything about SF at all. SF2 series rewards BLOCKING, if you block something you can punish it hard, if you do something stupid you get punished, yes there are bad match ups (honda vs gief is 9-1, 8.5-1.5 for some purist) but the only time you get ToD´d is opening like an idiot (ie. classic ryu vs bipson, ryu opens with hado, bipson jumps into ToD, good ryus know this, choosing safer openings is very common, etc).
    I didn't say that sf2 is about 2 lucky guesses. And a 9-1 match-up is not a bad match up. Is an unwinnable match-up (without pure luck), usually implying a broken character/game.

    your point is...? Yes, I know Doa, a very nice game.
    Anyone who actually goes by reviews on if a game is good or not as no right to speak.

    May I kindly ask then how do you decide if a game is good or not to purchase it ?


  • GemsGems *Sees SFxT* *Backs away slowly* Joined: Posts: 163
    Stop Posting
  • Mr. UnbrockableMr. Unbrockable I like Thomas the Tank Engine Joined: Posts: 1,434
    Talking about turtly things
    You don't like the game cause of focus? and cause "zoners" have a hard time? Maybe you need to level up your zoning game son. Or go back to the turtle-fest that was super. Its called street "fighter" so characters that can get in your ass and knock you down are supposed to have lots of mixups to compensate for the fact that they don't have projectiles. (I do admit though seth is kind of dumb). cause its not like you can get in for free in 4 if the person who is zoning knows what they are doing.
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  • tatakitataki misplaced Joined: Posts: 7,700
    Blocking is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than not blocking in SF4.

    Yeah, plenty of players would rather wiggle the stick and smack buttons, instead of blocking, but blocking is still the better option in most cases.

    Which brings up SF4's worst quality... the players.
    I can't believe people here are still thinking the claim in this thread is that the best way to abuse the system is to do reversals ALL the time, and not the minimal amount needed to get the opponent to stop attacking regularly. We spelled it out for you guys multiple times and you still fail to grasp this.

    It's that once in a while reversal that will make you scared to attack half of the time.
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  • Branh0913Branh0913 Keep away king Joined: Posts: 3,642
    You don't like the game cause of focus? and cause "zoners" have a hard time? Maybe you need to level up your zoning game son. Or go back to the turtle-fest that was super. Its called street "fighter" so characters that can get in your ass and knock you down are supposed to have lots of mixups to compensate for the fact that they don't have projectiles. (I do admit though seth is kind of dumb). cause its not like you can get in for free in 4 if the person who is zoning knows what they are doing.


    My zoning game is fine. I hate my zoning and footsies game has to be centered around baiting focus attacks. Or focus attacks will cause you to automatically back off. I also hate the fact that people can guess focus out of bad situations they put themselves in. I'm a little old fashioned, in that I believe that if you got yourself in the corner, you're going to have to fight your way out, and if your opponent is worth a shit, he'll space you out, and make it hard for you to escape. But hey I got FOCUS attack! Let me just get a guess focus attack and get a lucky crumple. All because the guy is trying to play a poking and ground game.
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    The Turtle Master, but my name ain't Splinter
    Hitting down/back so fast, you think I was using macros
  • Mr. UnbrockableMr. Unbrockable I like Thomas the Tank Engine Joined: Posts: 1,434
    My zoning game is fine. I hate my zoning and footsies game has to be centered around baiting focus attacks. Or focus attacks will cause you to automatically back off. I also hate the fact that people can guess focus out of bad situations they put themselves in. I'm a little old fashioned, in that I believe that if you got yourself in the corner, you're going to have to fight your way out, and if your opponent is worth a shit, he'll space you out, and make it hard for you to escape. But hey I got FOCUS attack! Let me just get a guess focus attack and get a lucky crumple. All because the guy is trying to play a poking and ground game.
    I do hate FADCs but. focus is one of the ways in 4 that characters with no reliable way around projectiles have a chance to no get chipped to death. I love parries in 3s cause it does requires way more skill and risk. But focus attacks are beatable. If you play any zoning character you should be blowing up focus attacks anyway with ex's and armor breakers and canceling in to specials. And if your opponents keep focusing its YOUR job to show them why its a bad idea, and if they don't learn then you're supposed to keep punishing them. plus most focus attacks are slow as hell, and you can block on reaction unless your mindlessly rushing or throwing projectiles from the wrong distances. Theres SO many ways to beat focus attacks its not even funny. Plus YOU can focus too. Sf4 already gives zoners a way better chance to zone than 3 did anyway. You honestly just sound frustrated cause people are getting by your defense and blowing you up, but you can change that so isn't the games fault. I mean look at diemenion the lamest MFer i have ever seen he beasts, and people who are at higher levels only focus when they need too.
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  • Branh0913Branh0913 Keep away king Joined: Posts: 3,642
    I do hate FADCs but. focus is one of the ways in 4 that characters with no reliable way around projectiles have a chance to no get chipped to death. I love parries in 3s cause it does requires way more skill and risk. But focus attacks are beatable. If you play any zoning character you should be blowing up focus attacks anyway with ex's and armor breakers and canceling in to specials. And if your opponents keep focusing its YOUR job to show them why its a bad idea, and if they don't learn then you're supposed to keep punishing them. plus most focus attacks are slow as hell, and you can block on reaction unless your mindlessly rushing or throwing projectiles from the wrong distances. Theres SO many ways to beat focus attacks its not even funny. Plus YOU can focus too. Sf4 already gives zoners a way better chance to zone than 3 did anyway. You honestly just sound frustrated cause people are getting by your defense and blowing you up, but you can change that so isn't the games fault. I mean look at diemenion the lamest MFer i have ever seen he beasts, and people who are at higher levels only focus when they need too.


    I can deal with focus attacks, that doesn't mean I have to like them. And focus attacks annoy some characters more than others. Like Sagat probably isn't as annoyed by the because he has multi hitting normals. Characters like Rose, Guile and Chun-Li (and Vega) may find them more annoying because their best pokes only hit once, and typically they can be crumpled. Generally if I can see my opponent likes to focus, I generally throw them, or throw out a move that's fast and hard to crumple, then hit them with a heavy attack. Still, despite this, I hate them. I see people panic focusing back to back when they really have no idea what to do.

    BTW, zoning sucks in SSFIV. It's better than it is in 3s, but that's not saying a whole lot. You get nearly no damage for zoning, and Capcom nerfed meter building across the board for zoning as well. People kind of kill themselves basically trying to get in. You can pretty much take the old ST route and just eat fireball damage to gain ground, and that's even more effective since Fireballs do shitty damage in general.

    Zoning could definitely stand to be better, and the fact that focus attacks punish footsies don't set well with me. I spend a lot f time learning footsies, whiff punishments, and counterpokes. So for such a brain dead too like focus, I have to dumb down my footsies to bait them. To me that's not very ideal.
    M.O.D.O.K Avengers - Minister Of Defense
    The Turtle Master, but my name ain't Splinter
    Hitting down/back so fast, you think I was using macros
  • Mr. UnbrockableMr. Unbrockable I like Thomas the Tank Engine Joined: Posts: 1,434
    Stuff
    Let me guess you play Guile? Sounds like your saying rushdown characters or offensive characters should have less options. Its a decent mix of good zoners and rushdown types in 4 now so, maybe you don't like the fact that the game rewards you less for your defense (though the advantage is still given to the defender unless its viper or seth) I LOVE the fact that the game rewards offensive actions more. Cause face it some characters don't have a choice but to go in. Super sounds like your game where it was super defensive and you could win by just hanging back and throwing projectiles. And I mean by default aren't zoners SUPPOSED to suck or at least not be as strong at point blank range? thats why you stay away and poke and throw projectiles son cause its advantageous for your character to do so. Plus focusing against guile isn't even a good idea unless its to build a little ultra meter from fullscreen. This is sf4 bro. Its dumbed down in general from st and 3s. I hate ultra combos. I hate having to constantlly bait dps or reversals, but its part of the game.
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