Stick vs Pad = Preference Vs Preference

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  • JediLinkJediLink Has 100%'d Super Smash Bros Melee Joined: Posts: 719
    Pad vs. Stick depends on the game. As a general rule, though, stick is better.
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  • RoGE9RoGE9 Joined: Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭
    Pad vs. Stick depends on the game. As a general rule, though, stick is better.
    ^^^This right here

    I am a pad player too, as long as fighting games stay lenient execution-wise, I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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  • MarkColtonMarkColton Zero Income Joined: Posts: 34
    I can't wait to try stick soon because the pad hurts my hands.
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  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 1,270
    As someone said before, pad is something you can use for any game, but it's objectively inferior to specialized controllers. It's OK if you don't want/care enough to invest in such a controller or you don't want to relearn the way you do things, but yes stick is better than pad for fighting games. I've bought a TE stick after using pads for 20+ years and it makes a world of difference in many games (especially for mashing and multiple button pressing/holding/pianoing).
  • MVDKMVDK Nostalgia-driven man-child and button mashing extraordinaire Joined: Posts: 127 ✭✭
    I personally use a pad. Have picked up a stick in more recent years to try out in local casuals, but I'm too used to a pad to drop it completly.
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  • SubjectiveSubjective Joined: Posts: 171
    First time I started doing DPs on a stick it blew my mind. Charge moves are easier on stick as well. Unless you're using button binds like some broken SC4 Hilde shit there's not a good argument for pad

    But there's a MK player who uses a fucking keyboard so do what you like
  • TenguEggTenguEgg Joined: Posts: 1,145
    I stick up for pad players all the time and i'm the first one to tell someone that if they like pad they don't need to switch to stick, but don't get it twisted, its not just a preference thing.

    Humans aren't robots, we have extremities that are designed for certain purposes, a thumb certainly can't match the precision and accuracy/control you can produce with your wrist, its just not what it was designed for.

    Likewise I think Hitboxes are the next step for fighting game players, they just don't have someone like Madcatz to mass produce them and make them readily available, you can't even buy a 360 Hitbox from the Hitbox site. The ability to forego those nasty directional inputs that you can screw up on stick and pad is just going to be too nice. Probably won't happen for awhile though
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird Got ripped in 2 weeks thanks to the Master Emerald Joined: Posts: 9,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm confused. How is using a hitbox "cheating"?
  • AquasharkAquashark Mekong Delta AirRaid Joined: Posts: 1,365
    it's not. people are idiots.

    it sort of was in vanilla MVC3 where you could hold left+right and block in both directions, but that was a game bug reproducible on gamepads too (d-pad left + analog right).. which was fixed later on in UMVC3
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  • Missing PersonMissing Person Dragonballed #SRKMafiaXV Joined: Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm confused. How is using a hitbox "cheating"?
    Aris posted a video laying claim that hitboxes make certain things possible that are next to if not completely impossible on stick or pad. Some examples were instant air projectiles on MK or instant shining wizards in Tekken.

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  • DoctaMarioDoctaMario Big Member Joined: Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭✭
    I got drunk one night and played Third Strike on a DDR pad. It's ridiculous, everyone should try playing fighting games on a dance pad just because it'll make you appreciate whatever you play with for real, stick or pad. xD

    On topic though, I've got a HRAP3SA that I've used for about 3 years. These past two weeks I was on the road and brought one of the old pads I used to play fighting games with because space was limited so I could play some 3s and AE on PC. Now, maybe it's just because I've gotten so used to the stick, but playing on a pad seems so much harder. The button placements, having to to any Super/Ultra that isn't a QCFx2 move, all a lot more difficult.Having to even adjust to doing Target Combos was absurd.

    Most fighting games (especially Capcom ones) were designed with the arcade cabinet in mind, even the newer ones just because that's the way it's always been done. Yes, you can play on a pad and be good, but to me, it's like the difference between using a hammer to pound in a nail vs. using a rock. Yes, a rock works, but a hammer is a tool made ESPECIALLY for that use, so why wouldn't you use it? I played pad for 20 years, but after going to a stick, it's REALLY hard to go back to pad and play as effectively.

    The one game I'm on the fence about pad vs. stick still is Guilty Gear. I have a lot of trouble with the dashes, air dashes, and IADs in that game on stick, but maybe it's just a lack of practice. When I play that, I usually float between the pad and the analog stick.
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  • shiningnegroshiningnegro Joined: Posts: 1,003
    I got drunk one night and played Third Strike on a DDR pad. It's ridiculous, everyone should try playing fighting games on a dance pad just because it'll make you appreciate whatever you play with for real, stick or pad. xD

    On topic though, I've got a HRAP3SA that I've used for about 3 years. These past two weeks I was on the road and brought one of the old pads I used to play fighting games with because space was limited so I could play some 3s and AE on PC. Now, maybe it's just because I've gotten so used to the stick, but playing on a pad seems so much harder. The button placements, having to to any Super/Ultra that isn't a QCFx2 move, all a lot more difficult.Having to even adjust to doing Target Combos was absurd.

    Most fighting games (especially Capcom ones) were designed with the arcade cabinet in mind, even the newer ones just because that's the way it's always been done. Yes, you can play on a pad and be good, but to me, it's like the difference between using a hammer to pound in a nail vs. using a rock. Yes, a rock works, but a hammer is a tool made ESPECIALLY for that use, so why wouldn't you use it? I played pad for 20 years, but after going to a stick, it's REALLY hard to go back to pad and play as effectively.

    The one game I'm on the fence about pad vs. stick still is Guilty Gear. I have a lot of trouble with the dashes, air dashes, and IADs in that game on stick, but maybe it's just a lack of practice. When I play that, I usually float between the pad and the analog stick.

    Yep DDR Pad is the Rock
    Stick is the Hammer
    Pad is the Nail gun

    gotcha :)
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  • p.m novaroad pilotp.m novaroad pilot Joined: Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    I stick up for pad players all the time and i'm the first one to tell someone that if they like pad they don't need to switch to stick, but don't get it twisted, its not just a preference thing.

    Humans aren't robots, we have extremities that are designed for certain purposes, a thumb certainly can't match the precision and accuracy/control you can produce with your wrist, its just not what it was designed for.

    Likewise I think Hitboxes are the next step for fighting game players, they just don't have someone like Madcatz to mass produce them and make them readily available, you can't even buy a 360 Hitbox from the Hitbox site. The ability to forego those nasty directional inputs that you can screw up on stick and pad is just going to be too nice. Probably won't happen for awhile though
    it mostly is preference though
    if your talking about precision then you would need to specify what kind of motion your looking for

    the speed that you want to do it and the deliberation (when you want to do it)

    its why i scratch my head as to why people would have a problem with hitboxes

    yeah it obviously helps with specific motion but it doesnt improve basic movement where on a stick or a pad you have the centrifuge that you have a feel on at all times
    amount and degree of motion should be taken int account
  • DoctaMarioDoctaMario Big Member Joined: Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭✭
    Yep DDR Pad is your head
    Stick is the Hammer
    Pad is the head of a screwdriver
    Telepathy is the nail gun

    gotcha :)

    Fixed. ;)
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  • Pair of RooksPair of Rooks Hello. Joined: Posts: 34
    So to sum up: stick is better, but because of its *buttons*, not the stick itself.

    Most motions are faster on pad because of smaller engage distances. But that small engage distance is a double-edged sword: directional execution errors are magnified on a pad. Doing FBFBFB really fast on a pad may get you some unintentional diagonal directions in there which wouldn't be a problem on stick. And while it's true that FBFBFB is *easier* on stick, it's still *slower*. How sloppy are your directional inputs?

    Also, some motions are easier on one than the other. I find DPs easier on stick, but 360s easier on pad. (The real DP motion, not the shortcut one.)

    And like others have said, some games require more complex button-work than others. Complex button-work really wants a stick, since you can use more fingers. I recently changed the physical placement of my stick's buttons to this:

    ..LK MK HK HP
    ..LP ............ 3K
    3P MP .............

    My thumb lays across LP & MP, so I can hit any of my 6 normals with a mere twitch. I can hit all 6 simultaneously if needed, no button-mapping required. There's a pic of my stick mod in both the SSF4:AE Juri forum as well as the Tech Talk forum.
  • Pete278Pete278 Yare yare daze Joined: Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭
    So to sum up: stick is better, but because of its *buttons*, not the stick itself.

    Most motions are faster on pad because of smaller engage distances. But that small engage distance is a double-edged sword: directional execution errors are magnified on a pad. Doing FBFBFB really fast on a pad may get you some unintentional diagonal directions in there which wouldn't be a problem on stick. And while it's true that FBFBFB is *easier* on stick, it's still *slower*. How sloppy are your directional inputs?

    Also, some motions are easier on one than the other. I find DPs easier on stick, but 360s easier on pad. (The real DP motion, not the shortcut one.)

    And like others have said, some games require more complex button-work than others. Complex button-work really wants a stick, since you can use more fingers. I recently changed the physical placement of my stick's buttons to this:

    ..LK MK HK HP
    ..LP ............ 3K
    3P MP .............

    My thumb lays across LP & MP, so I can hit any of my 6 normals with a mere twitch. I can hit all 6 simultaneously if needed, no button-mapping required. There's a pic of my stick mod in both the SSF4:AE Juri forum as well as the Tech Talk forum.
    Are you high as a kite at the moment? What the fuck sort of layout is that?
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  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,409 ✭✭✭✭
    Aris posted a video laying claim that hitboxes make certain things possible that are next to if not completely impossible on stick or pad. Some examples were instant air projectiles on MK or instant shining wizards in Tekken.
    But neither of those things are impossible on either stick or pad. Additionally, they aren't even difficult with enough practice. Aris' video really only made claims of Hit Box being easier to use, which first of all isn't the case, and second of all even if it was, ease of use should not be ban worthy. That's ridiculous.

    Basically, here's the deal with Aris' video. He said that doing something like CH d/f+2 into EWGF took him a really long time to learn on stick and when playing on a Hit Box he got it 1 in 5, 2 in 5, I forget the exact numbers he used, times in like 20 minutes or whatever. Now, that's fine and dandy, but that doesn't mean the Hit Box is easier to use. He has been playing Tekken for years, he knows the mechanics of the game, he knows the execution for the things he was practicing. That wasn't the case when he was learning stick, when he was learning stick Tekken was a clean slate for him, so of course it took more time to learn.

    What I'm getting at is that things came natural to him because they were things that were already coming natural to him. Hit Box was not altering his inputs in a severe way. Yes, it is a different control type, but it's not so radically different that if you figured out the directions you're playing an entirely different game. There are some things that are maybe more advantageous given button inputs such as triple forward moves and the like, but there are also drawbacks such as full circle motions taking more effort in some games. Just like with anything else, put in the time and you will get good.

    Honestly I don't even understand how it's a problem to begin with. By saying ease of use is banworthy, what you're basically saying is that good execution is broken, because that's all a Hit Box "theoretically" gives you, and by extension you're saying that fighting games are designed so simply that having good execution gives you a massive, game breaking advantage over other players.
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  • Missing PersonMissing Person Dragonballed #SRKMafiaXV Joined: Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭✭
    snip

    Yeah, I'm not in disagreement with you, but there was that controversy that had been brought up at times.

    The only other thing that could even be considered is SOCDs, but most boards prevent that now, even on the ones that don't, there are easy options to add in. The only valid reason why someone would have to ban them is if they don't want to take the time to look at the innards of a stick to inspect to see if it's SOCD cleaned. Most of the time wasted in that could honestly be saved by putting signs to make sure Hitbox players had the bottom of their stick opened before they reached the front of registration.
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  • Bryanv2Bryanv2 BryanJ Joined: Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭
    I've played on both, and have a lot of experience on both. Hands down sticks are better. Fighting game sticks were created specifically for fighting games, and most fighting games were created with sticks in mind. Hitting multiple buttons, doing fast chain combos, plinking, dashing, most everything is easier and smoother on a good stick. You can compensate, but pad is at the least a mild handicap and at the most a giant handicap depending on the game.

    This pretty much imo.

    I went from a pretty dedicated pad player trying to get my SF and Marvel game into tournaments to recently for about 3 weeks a stick and Instantly I had a feeling of ''why the hell did i wait so long'' everything is so much easier. Fighters like SF4 and a lot before that era were released on the arcades for months before even coming on the consoles, it was practically created with that in mind. It could have been me and my pad techniques as players like Wolfkrone do fine but still.

    For games like Marvel 3 you honestly don't really need a stick but even there I'm feeling huugee improvements with characters like Dante. My Neutral game, dashing, assists are not on my prev. level yet tho. Its preference to a degree imo, and I do agree you can probably do everything you can do on a stick on a pad but the key here imo is the ease of doing those things. There's a reason you see 90% of the tournament players especially for older fighters with an expensive fight stick.
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  • Pete278Pete278 Yare yare daze Joined: Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭
    Basically, here's the deal with Aris' video. He said that doing something like CH d/f+2 into EWGF took him a really long time to learn on stick and when playing on a Hit Box he got it 1 in 5, 2 in 5, I forget the exact numbers he used, times in like 20 minutes or whatever. Now, that's fine and dandy, but that doesn't mean the Hit Box is easier to use. He has been playing Tekken for years, he knows the mechanics of the game, he knows the execution for the things he was practicing. That wasn't the case when he was learning stick, when he was learning stick Tekken was a clean slate for him, so of course it took more time to learn.
    Aris still can't do CH d/f+2 into EWGF reliably on stick, so uh, this doesn't really apply.
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  • rukawa_kaederukawa_kaede Badness At Its Finest Joined: Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭
    I play on pad because whoever I play, I can do what I need to with them on a pad. Execution can be a pain(getting FRC combos with I-no) but it's never enough for me to drop my pad and shell out some bucks on a stick. I trained enough with Kazuya in Tekken to be able to get down EWGF for 3-4 reps on pad. That's how it is for me. As long as I can get what I want and need, I'm good.

    Sorry edge but your post come up as why would i want to buy a car with a stick if i can do perfectly fine with an automatic even though you clearly admited having performance issues.

    Anyone who is serious about fighting games should have both controllers already. I learned to play fighting games with a pad on my snes,playstation days because sticks weren't even available back then,why pad players can't do the same?

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  • rayplayrayplay aka solidoutlaw Joined: Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭✭
    Sorry edge but your post come up as why would i want to buy a car with a stick if i can do perfectly fine with an automatic even though you clearly admited having performance issues.

    Anyone who is serious about fighting games should have both controllers already. I learned to play fighting games with a pad on my snes,playstation days because sticks weren't even available back then,why pad players can't do the same?

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  • LouiscipherLouiscipher The man you love to hate Joined: Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Uhm, last year I spent about $100 on pads. So it's not about money. I made the mistake of going with the Hori Fighting Commander Pro. But I guess the idea that some people have preferences never comes to mind.
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  • rayplayrayplay aka solidoutlaw Joined: Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭✭
    Uhm, last year I spent about $100 on pads. So it's not about money. I made the mistake of going with the Hori Fighting Commander Pro. But I guess the idea that some people have preferences never comes to mind.
    Not everyone has that to just spend for a controller though. I've bought one extra DS3 since I got my PS3 and since then, I've just cleaned and kept them maintained. A DS3 alone is 50 bucks. If I find that to be too much, of course I'm going to be stingy on a stick. I can buy certain consoles for cheaper. Seriously, a controller costing more than a console is kinda funny when you think about it.
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  • rayplayrayplay aka solidoutlaw Joined: Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭✭
    Uhm, last year I spent about $100 on pads. So it's not about money. I made the mistake of going with the Hori Fighting Commander Pro. But I guess the idea that some people have preferences never comes to mind.
    Not everyone has that to just spend for a controller though. I've bought one extra DS3 since I got my PS3 and since then, I've just cleaned and kept them maintained. A DS3 alone is 50 bucks. If I find that to be too much, of course I'm going to be stingy on a stick. I can buy certain consoles for cheaper. Seriously, a controller costing more than a console is kinda funny when you think about it.
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  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,409 ✭✭✭✭
    The only valid reason why someone would have to ban them is if they don't want to take the time to look at the innards of a stick to inspect to see if it's SOCD cleaned. Most of the time wasted in that could honestly be saved by putting signs to make sure Hitbox players had the bottom of their stick opened before they reached the front of registration.
    That also sounds like a witch hunt. SOCD is not a Hit Box exclusive issue, any stick or pad can be wired to allow it as well. Hell, I could wire a toaster to SOCD if I wanted to. If you're going to check every Hit Box, it's only fair you check every stick and pad as well, and the logistics of that are just dumb for a tournament. On top of that, SOCD isn't even an issue in the current gen of games. It was an issue in vanilla MvC3 and Ultimate fixed it. You're not even helping anything by banning SOCD.
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  • NoUDontNoUDont Joined: Posts: 83
    Stick is better, because it hits with more force when I throw it after I lost.
  • Pair of RooksPair of Rooks Hello. Joined: Posts: 34
    Are you high as a kite at the moment? What the fuck sort of layout is that?
    Long story. See the Juri thread. It's not as whack as it first seems.
  • NoUDontNoUDont Joined: Posts: 83
    It's not as whack as it first seems.
    As someone who tried to play Juri(and failed), it makes perfect sense to me.
  • Master ChibiMaster Chibi .: Dynamites! :. Joined: Posts: 14,934 mod
    I can play on either stick or pad just fine but fuck do I ever love the sound of hitting buttons. So much.
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher The man you love to hate Joined: Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stick is better, because it hits with more force when I throw it after I lost.

    True. But I can take two pads and make a nunchaku out of them. Can your Playskool arcade stick do that? I don' think so!

    Failing that I can go Hitman and subtly strangle dudes.
    STOMP!
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,409 ✭✭✭✭
    Can your Playskool arcade stick do that?
    No, but it plays kool.
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  • JediLinkJediLink Has 100%'d Super Smash Bros Melee Joined: Posts: 719
    True. But I can take two pads and make a nunchaku out of them. Can your Playskool arcade stick do that? I don' think so!

    Failing that I can go Hitman and subtly strangle dudes.

    Why the hell are you carrying around two pads?
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  • LouiscipherLouiscipher The man you love to hate Joined: Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why the hell are you carrying around two pads?

    360 and PS3.
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  • GomuGomuGomuGomu Should've never let you round cake Joined: Posts: 7,892 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm confused. How is using a hitbox "cheating"?

    Stick players salty that the Hitbox is theoretically superior. :smokin:
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  • Xr0s-upXr0s-up Goomy!!! Joined: Posts: 517 ✭✭✭
    I'm confused. How is using a hitbox "cheating"?

    the creator showed that you can wavedash with wolverine very easily when it was considered risky to do so.
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  • keo-baskeo-bas Joined: Posts: 1,336 ✭✭
    Im conviced. Hitbox must be the way for me to go.

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  • petran79petran79 Here comes an old challenger Joined: Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭
    I wouldnt mind a pad if it had 6 buttons or 3. I remember I played SF2 the new challengers on the Sega Megadrive with that pad and liked it a lot. 3 buttons in straight order and you could change punch and kick. no need to use the index finger for trigger buttons. or something like the Neo Geo pad, which was perfect for fighters.

    but most pads had just 4 buttons in SNES style, so when I tried to play fighters on the Dreamcast it felt very uncomfortable and awkward.
    this is why i felt more familiar with the keyboard than a 4 button pad.even if it meant I had to switch from left to right, regarding directions

    unfortunately also FPS fell victim to the console pad. the the sacrifice of precision is even greater.

    now you can buy all sorts of pads but back then it was an issue. FPS cant be helped, but regarding fighters at that time people were forced to adapt on pads, now they can find cheap sticks. there is no excuse.
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  • Trouble BrewingTrouble Brewing AAAAAA! Joined: Posts: 4,311 mod
    FPS can be helped simply by playing on PC. Competitive console FPS is inherently a joke.
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  • NoUDontNoUDont Joined: Posts: 83
    True. But I can take two pads and make a nunchaku out of them. Can your Playskool arcade stick do that? I don' think so!
    A stick is big enough to be a shield against your puny nunchaku and with the balltop off it becomes a stabbing device too. And when everything is done it can also be used as your tombstone!
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher The man you love to hate Joined: Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A stick is big enough to be a shield against your puny nunchaku and with the balltop off it becomes a stabbing device too. And when everything is done it can also be used as your tombstone!

    I could get a pad past TSA without them thinking twice though.
    STOMP!
  • gaemmkgaemmk Joined: Posts: 148 ✭✭
    I think sticks have slight lag/delay. I can't prove that, but it feels like it. I tried executing Dee Jay combos that I can do easily on a pad and they came out slower on stick. The links were not connecting. Then I pressed the buttons, on stick, to the same tempo that I press on pad and there would be slight hitches during each interval. It was really bizarre. Anyway, the only drawback to pads are playing characters like the mash button characters, or characters which require slight dpad/stick movement( like Ken's tatsu crossup, low forward, into DP), or a loss of some of the plinks, but pad murders stick on mobility.

    When I use a pad I get the same sense of pleasure as I get from actually playing a sport, like basketball. If I want to inch forward a bit, no problem. If I want to make wild, quick movements, no problem. Any movement my brain wants to do I can do as fast as I could do it in a real life sport.

    The only thing holding back pads are the pad makers who refuse to make a great device. Case in point: Hori 3 pad, and the SFxT pad. Each does something amazing that the other doesn't, and if one device combined those strengths then you would have a great product. A pad with a floating dpad and all shoulder buttons moved to the right side of the pad would be just as good as a stick imo.
  • GAPGAP Joined: Posts: 59
    It is a lot harder for me to execute moves on a pad but I had yet to find a stick.
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