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  • EmXEmX Joined: Posts: 845
    With Yuri when it doubt use her HCB B command grab. It's 1f and you can convert off of it. Or leave it alone for a hard knockdown. Which will set you up for all of her shenanigans.

    I happen to main King(if I get my information wrong feel free to correct me) and I can say getting in on her can be a chore. But a couple of things to note. Her air fireball has a huge window of recovery. It might seem irrelevant to the conversation but if King is just throwing it out there just to do it use that as your opportunity to advance(while being careful of course). All versions of Tornado kick are unsafe, but the B version can be a little tricky to punish. If you're unsure on how to punish it just use Yuri's HCB B grab as I explained earlier. However D and EX are a guaranteed free punish. If you're friend is managing to EX Trap shot you off of those versions then your reactions simply aren't up to speed.

    King is arguably at her worst when her back is against the wall. And seeing how Yuri has corner rape for days you might want to center your game plan around getting her cornered. Meter or not King has an extremely tough time when cornered. Meterless she's virtually free in the corner as she has no solid reversal options whatsoever. Don't fear regular trap shot as it's incredibly slow and is prone to trades. Also take a look at her fireballs and see the speeds at which they fire. From 3/4ths to full screen the light one recovers fast enough to set up for some good spacial control from her. So if you jump from those distances you might eat a D Tornado kick, S.D, or S.C depending on the spacing. Her heavy fireball while fast, has quite a bit of recovery on it. So even if you can't get a punish from a jump in use that as another opportunity to gain some ground. From 3/4ths to 1/2 screen away from her be aware of jumping as her S.D and S.C are great anti-airs.

    Speaking of her S.C It stays out for a long time and whiffs on crouchers. So if you see King just throw that out there it's pretty much a free sweep. I could go on and on, but I'm drawing blanks on what else I should mention. But while I'm here I might as well ask the better people if this is legit match up knowledge for King? Or am I just playing her wrong? lol It might not be Yuri specific but it's just general knowledge of King's weakness's, which are pretty easy to exploit.

    I'm going to paragraph this for readability. Also I thought certain EX moves with King were decent reversals? I think the hyper guide says something like that.

    EDIT: Err...wait you did say meterless -- whoops! Well, it's worth mentioning this regardless methinks.
    KOF13 Wiki wrote:
    • (EX) Trap Shot - (Dp.gif + Snkb.gif + Snkd.gif) - Here we go! Improved startup speed, invulnerability, a big hitbox, and solid damage. Connects against a midscreen opponent after Tornado Kick (Hcb.gif + Snkb.gif), but is otherwise only slightly more damaging than the normal versions.
    • It's a great reversal and superb anti-air. With one meter, King actually has the threat of a reversal, and a really good one at that. The hitbox reaches out far in front of her and stretches out tall. The only possible gap right above her head can be covered by her Surprise Rose DM (Qcf.gif×2 + Punch.gif).
  • EmXEmX Joined: Posts: 845
    KOF13 Wiki wrote:
    Headcrush/Mix Ups
    The "fake" crossup
    After performing Headcrush immediately perform a super jump, please note that the jump must be executed in the first active frames after Headcrush. If you do this properly, Raiden will appear to be crossing over the opposing character, but will actually drop down in front as they wakeup. This move is too early to hit them with (Air D) however I would reccomend Crouching Light Kick, Standing Light Punch, Headcrush as the opponant will be expecting you to hit them high, and wont guard against the low attack, and also, the combo ends with a headcrush, leaving you with another possible set up.

    I think I get this mostly. It needs some proofreading, which I could do at some point but I'm lazy atm.

    Correct me if I'm wrong - depending on the character's height and rise speed a meaty j.D will either whiff or connect, and you can land and just go low instead of having to do any sort of hit check. I'd actually leave the j.D in any way to keep them from throwing something out if my timing is off (big Raiden gut will dissuade people who don't know even if it loses or trades to their reversal on paper heh heh heh).

    I can already think of a few things in a mixup with this if they start blocking but it sounds great.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭✭
    Sorry everyone. I've been sick the past few days and I'm still recovering even now. I'll try to give some feedback and answers on Saturday. Chances are tonight I might go to Ramnation and have a friend drive my sick self up there and then go stay at a place over in the Bay Area and attend STA on Sunday. I'll be getting back to answering questions shortly and thanks for the patience.
  • roxashd9999roxashd9999 FOOOOD!!! Joined: Posts: 59
    Just wanted to know if you install this game to the ps3 hard drive if the load times decrease?
  • TerrastormTerrastorm Joined: Posts: 263
    Just wanted to know if you install this game to the ps3 hard drive if the load times decrease?
    Yes.
  • roxashd9999roxashd9999 FOOOOD!!! Joined: Posts: 59
  • EndlessEndless Death Before Dishonour Joined: Posts: 1,960
    Ok, went to my first local KOFXIII tournament and got blown out 2-0
    ugghhh haven't trained hard in KOF since KOF98

    I haven't decided on a full team yet, please help me decide on my 3rd teammate

    So far decided:
    Iori (claw or flames), Clark

    and either

    K', Takuma, Andy, or NESTS Kyo.

    K' - I'm okay with him, but I can't do his HD combos, and I can't seem to maintain consistent pressure. His moveset is all great, but I always end up jumping around too much with him instead of going in all the time. If I have him on my team, he will be on point with K', Clark, Iori

    Takuma - Probably my last choice, mostly because I can't do his HD combos, but from all the videos I've seen, his HD combos are crazy town. His fireball is huge, his jump attacks are great, he's got good normals, but he needs meter to do heavy damage. If I have him on my team, I will either have Takuma in the middle or as anchor.

    Andy - Overall I feel good with him, his specials are good, but his jump arc is high and and I haven't seen too many long HD combos with him. The great thing about him is that he doesn't really need too much meter to do damage. I don't know who his bad matchups are. If I have Andy on the team, I will either have him on point first or in the middle switching up with Clark.

    NESTS Kyo - I feel good about him, but since fireballs and uppercuts are stronger in this game, I have to find a way to get in safely and maintain pressure. I can actually do some of his HD combos. The main thing about Kyo is that the only 2 ways to get heavy damage with Kyo is with his double kicks juggle or with HD combos. If I use NESTS Kyo, I will probably have him on point with Kyo, Clark, and Iori

    Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated!
  • NissanZaximaNissanZaxima Joined: Posts: 7,686
    Seems like you are obsessed with HD combos and forgetting the rest of the match. I wouldnt really consider HD combos a significant portion of my character selection.
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  • EndlessEndless Death Before Dishonour Joined: Posts: 1,960
    HD combos are huge in this game, I don't remember seeing any high level play without HD combos implimented in play.
  • EmXEmX Joined: Posts: 845
    They're important but it's just damage output in HD mode and setups afterward that you need to consider carefully in working with a char. If the barrier to perform them in the match is too much then switch.

    HD combos are kinda tacked onto the game and are mostly there for razzle-dazzle BIG COMBOZ and being able to carry people to the corner. I really hate that aspect of the system because it is necessary to utilize most of the time.
  • rcorporonrcorporon Joined: Posts: 532
    Don't want to make a new thread for this so I thought I'd post it here:

    Just really started getting into KoF XIII (I've never played a KoF before) and am really enjoying the game so far but I've yet to make a main team. I'm still playing with the characters a bit to see who I like.

    So far I like Sensou, Kim, Takuma Sakazaki, Mr. Karate, Mai and Goro. Would you guys suggests these characters for somebody just coming over to KoF? Is there a "Ryu" style character who is generally advised to new players to grasp the fundamentals of KoF?

    Is there good synergy between these characters? I know I need to consider meter usage when choosing a team order, so any tips on meter usage as it applies to these characters would be good as well.

    Thanks!
    PSN: Yewni
    SFIV: Cody / Fei Long
    P4A: Kanji
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    snip
    If you've already decided on two characters, I'd imagine you have an idea of where Clark and (either) Iori fit best in your playstyle, and then you could figure out the remaining open position which might help narrowing down your choices. In any case:

    K' wont necessary end up using any HD combos if you put in on point and play well with him, and you could guarantee that your secondary character will come in with a Drive of a few bars. Otherwise the 'hardest' HD hitconfirm is starting from a cr.B cr.B st.B chain but you can play without that and only opt for starting with cl.C f.A or by spending a meter in the corner off a Second Shell launch.

    He applies pressure pretty simply by having a good hopping air-to-ground j.D combined with his cancelable cr.B which if canceled into an Ein Trigger should net a knockdown or a launch in the corner. So he can set up to hop over sweeps or walk/run back in and pester with cr.Bs, and then mix up the timing on both options and land a cool footsie setup like delaying an Ein Trigger or doing a straight up tick throw. Granted that there's a lot more to it than those two approaches--st.A can be used to preemptively AA the opponent from hopping out and can be followed with an instant Minute Spikes, K' can wait and punish a roll or bait a desperation reversal, j.CD also works as a great air-to-ground and air-to-air, and neutral hopping with either creates a wall that the opponent can't easily deal with without like DPing on reaction--but hopefully that helps you out a bit and there's plenty of solid K' footage from CafeID and good K' play in 2002UM/XIII arcade (should you look to these, focus more on the general spacing and strategies rather than the specifics because obviously the finer points are completely different in XIII console/Climax). If you haven't already, try using the C Ein Trigger for your pressure since it's not as stiff on block and it comes out faster, but generally whenever you commit to an Ein Trigger you're going to be more negative/neutral than from a cr.B so you've got to respect the situation sometimes and accept that your options afterward are more rigid/risky.

    Takuma's HD stuff isn't that difficult except maybe for his most optimal corner carry. Honestly, his Drive Cancel loops have tighter links but really the main thing with all of Takuma's combos is learning how to quickly charge [db], f+D immediately from a f.B. Even with basic stuff, he can do more than 40% from a clean hit/cross up/j.CD counterhit/command grab/anywhere juggle with just 1 meter and 1 drive, and honestly you're probably better off capitalizing off every single possible instance with him anyway so you shouldn't be fishing for HD when you've already earned a chance to use a Drive Cancel from an anywhere juggle or something, and plus his long-ass combos do hella damage anyway.

    I'd agree with him being second or third, but some characters can hop his projectile and the recovery doesn't allow him to trail behind his light projectile as well as other characters, so don't expect to run a '98 zoning game with him but instead use it as poke or to force the opponent into the air where you're ready to meet them with j.CD or anti-air with the C ranbu. His grounded normals are alright, but he can't hitconfirm or rather create as much damage from an odd his like Mr. Karate can. However, his really low-to-ground hop arc and shockingly simple j.D and j.CD allow him to really be annoying on the offense, especially whenever crossing up with j.D (as usual, Takuma has cross up that's as good as something you'd expect to see out of ST).

    Andy's floatier hop arc and limited aerial options contribute to one of his few weaknesses, but you can use it to your advantage with cross up j.D. And while you might not have seen a lot of HD from him, I know he has an easy corner carry and then a corner loop, both of which can be ended with NEO MAX for high damage. Even without that, Andy's able to use Drive Cancels in the corner to do some surprisingly long juggles so the HD plays its biggest role midscreen where he doesn't get too much damage from his other options. Otherwise all his tools and specials do what you'd expect them to do exceptionally well. As for bad matchups, all I can think of at the moment are characters that can meet him or out-play him in the zoning game or someone who can punish Zaneiken on block. So EX Iori fits the bill as an alright counter since he can EX DP to punish Zaneiken, meet him in a projectile fight, and stay on point with reaction DPs. I don't think that matchup is as dumb as something like Kim vs Daimon though, where Daimon gets blown up by ff.A and air safe air overhead shenanigans and easy cross ups.

    Applying pressure with EX Kyo should be easier than doing it with normal Kyo, for sure, since he has better light normals, less need to cancel into a command normal which can put in him a neutral or risky situation on block, and he's got his Aragami rekka for safe frametraps, anti-airing, and poking/whiff punishing. Getting in might be an issue since j.D can be crouched under, but you can play it patient or look for a situation to roll or EX R.E.D. Kick your way in, or get into idea rekka poking range and go from there. In the lower and upper spectrums, his damage rivals Fireball Kyo and his HD damage isn't spectacular (that, and the amount of tools available to him don't greatly increase with meter) so I usually run him on point, netting 20-30% from lights or a rekka combo/anti-air/poke and in the corner it's really easy to turn this into a hard knockdown into an easy safejump. If you don't burn too much meter on him, you can pass it on to the next character or build enough for an easy HD combo into NEOMAX so take your pick.
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    So far I like Sensou, Kim, Takuma Sakazaki, Mr. Karate, Mai and Goro. Would you guys suggests these characters for somebody just coming over to KoF? Is there a "Ryu" style character who is generally advised to new players to grasp the fundamentals of KoF?

    Is there good synergy between these characters? I know I need to consider meter usage when choosing a team order, so any tips on meter usage as it applies to these characters would be good as well.
    I covered team ordering and selection and synergy in an article here, but if you're looking for the 'Ryu' character that teaches the fundamentals the best then you should look in to Kyo, Iori, or K'. Knowing how to use and fighting against those three should teach you a lot about KOF. Also look in to these videos.

    Kensou and Mai are more spacing/zoning orientated though like everyone they have good offensive options from direct pressure to more passive spacial control. Daimon's also a spacing monster and learning him should teach you a lot about how grappler oki works in KOF. I'd recommend Kim if you have a really good knowledge of how to use and space normals effectively since his are really damn good but his specials aren't too safe without proper proper positioning. Takuma and Karate have some nice offensive options but you'll need good reactions with both for AAing or nice spacial awareness to account for their stubby normals.

    I can't really comment on how synergy would work between them since it'd depend on your team selection and then order, both of which should be chosen depending on how comfortable you feel with each character in certain situations. So if you want meter for Takuma and Daimon, you'd probably place them second and third and your remaining spot could be filled by Kim/Mai/Kensou, depending on whichever feels the best for you on point and without meter. So if you hate keeping a charge and want a meterless DP for reaction punishes, you'd want Kensou first out of those three.

    The short answer is that there isn't a wrong answer as long as you're aware of what you're doing and it feels good.
  • EndlessEndless Death Before Dishonour Joined: Posts: 1,960
    Sparkster - Thanks for the excellent advice, MUCH appreciated. Got my team in mind now, thanks!
  • rcorporonrcorporon Joined: Posts: 532
    Thanks Sparkster.

    In SSFIV I main Cody and it seemed to me like Kim was similar in a few ways (very good normals but risky specials) except the rushdown in KoF is very, very different from SF.

    Kensou seemed to me to be a bit like Yun with some crazy rush down but I guess I was wrong (perhaps it was because they look similar).
    PSN: Yewni
    SFIV: Cody / Fei Long
    P4A: Kanji
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    You can compare them to a degree, but Kensou doesn't have any sort of Genei Jin, command grab followups, or as many frametraps as 3S/AE Yun. He's got corner pressure, but not the best rushdown. If you want a Yun divekick for real, play Yuri.
  • GrayFoxGrayFox Emperor of Fighters Joined: Posts: 20
    I have a problem when i play Takuma.
    My EX Kou'ou ken (qcf.A+C) is too (like geese says) PREDICTABO, how do i surprise my enemi with this or setup him a long range?
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  • TerrastormTerrastorm Joined: Posts: 263
    Any anti-Yuri strats will be greatly appreciated.
    Anyone?
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    It's hard to alternate guard against Yuri, so don't be afraid to backdash when in doubt. Some characters hop up high enough to backdash over her sweep should she do cr.B cr.D as a blockstring.

    Otherwise try working counters to her divekick setups, namely cr.B st.B xx dp+D > B and the better setup of cr.B cr.B hyper hop j.3B. The former setup usually can be beaten with typical uppercuts and DPs, though the latter setup is more difficult to deal with and your best bet is to usually hit her on the way up with a st.A or to hop backwards with an air-to-air. Your best bet overall is to not let her get in and get enough advantage to start her divekick pressure.

    Try not to let her get away with whiffing Saifa too much as you can hit her out of the recovery, especially with a well-timed low attack. Her air fireball isn't that great, and all of the versions that lock her in the air for a second can either be punished with invuln attacks or sometimes by rolling through and tagging her recovery as she touches down. The grounded version of her air Raikouken is unsafe on block from point blank, so it's a risky move unless she uses the EX or the heavier versions.

    Test out punishes for her EX command grab, since if you can't punish it she'll have a safe reversal option to toss out that you can't counterpoke in any way.

    Aside from her tick throws and divekicks, her blockstrings are simplistic and if you keep an eye out for cr.C and cr.D you can try reading a guard roll and punishing her for canceling into Kouken.
  • SketchspaceSketchspace Joined: Posts: 648
    ^ Cool, I was having some trouble with Yuri in a match this past tournament.

    Besides that, I know my execution is rusty (ie Ralf / Vice combo drops in the second match, this is what playing Marvel does to you), I should've used guard roll/guard blowback more, and I don't know how to fight Yuri. Any other advice?
    Spoiler:
  • the7kthe7k Kitty Pride. Joined: Posts: 5,274 ✭✭✭✭
    Decided to go back to my KOFXII team of Clark/Kensou/Claw Iori at my last tournament - even though I'd only played Kensou for a week and Clark for a day at that point (in KOFXIII, of course), I managed to get just one match away from finals just playing them the way I played them in KOFXII. (As well as just applying stuff I had seen from streams, like dacidbro's sweep into fireball spam and BALA's Clark play)

    So, I'll probably stick with that team, if I can get results like that with such little time put in with them. I actually got eliminated by Yuri in that tournament as well, so my question:

    How do I escape from Yuri's Vortex? What are my most effective options?

    Also, what are Benimaru's weaknesses? What have I got to work with if I'm playing against a Benimaru who isn't making stupid mistakes?
    PSN: the_7k. XBL: the7k. http://www.twitch.tv/the7k - Turn on, Tune in, Drop combos.

    "Comebacks are fine as long as I'm the one doing them. Otherwise, they are evidence of a broken, poorly balanced game and it's all because of poor netcode and in-game lag due to poor port optimization and it was a terrible matchup and they need to patch the game and I should have won that and why does anyone even play this awful, fraud friendly game."
  • otoriotori Keep calm and huehuehue Joined: Posts: 4,018 ✭✭✭✭
    Can anyone direct me to some good Takuma gameplay? I'm still lost on how he should be played, how to aa and the spacing I should be with him (his normals feel on the slow end of things), etc. Checked Mad Kof's channel but didn't find anything.
  • ZeromurasameZeromurasame Too much wrist action Joined: Posts: 364
    How do I escape from Yuri's Vortex? What are my most effective options?
    Sparkster pretty much listed what to do in her "vortex" situations. Be prepared to anti air at all times. Her demon flip is actually pretty easy to anti air if you look for it(A lot of Yuri's try to go braindead auto pilot with the cr.B, st.B. demon flip B string. Myself included). The only thing I can think of at the moment is try to hit her out of the air with something quick and reliable. Someone more credible could probably tell you better than I.

    Try not to let her get away with whiffing Saifa too much as you can hit her out of the recovery, especially with a well-timed low attack.
    I know that can be said about the A version, but what about the C version? I know you can hit her out of the start up if you space yourself correctly, but isn't it active for a while and recovers almost immediately after the active period ends?
    No
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    The heavy Saifa can still be punished with really long cr.Bs and most sweeps, and there's very few recovery frames on whiff while the reflector's animation is active. As long as you're feeling out the spacing and you have your poke ready, you can try hitting her. Due to the fast recovery, you're best off hitting her while it's active, but if you end up blocking it then she's unpunishable. You could see how far you get trying to run forward and sweep her whenever she does it, since the worst she could do is EX DM or EX hcb+K you unless the sweep is really late in which case she could hop it.
  • rcorporonrcorporon Joined: Posts: 532
    Here's an oddball question:

    Anybody have a legend for the symbols used in trial mode? ie: What's the green "line break" arrow mean, etc? Looked in the manual but didn't find anything.
    PSN: Yewni
    SFIV: Cody / Fei Long
    P4A: Kanji
  • BoboGloryBoboGlory Joined: Posts: 512 ✭✭✭
    The green arrow is braking from a certain move similar to FADC in SF except without a cost of meter
  • sung_moonsung_moon Joined: Posts: 209
    anything i should do when i'm facing a hwa who's drunk? just block it all/wait for a chance to roll out? any pattern/move i should look out for to punish? seems like he just goes nuts once he's drunk. i guess just downback and try to fight through it?

    also probably a really dumb question but can you tech grabs from neutral/neutral crouching?
  • Ash CrimsonAsh Crimson Unbelievably Trollish Jerk Joined: Posts: 113
    I'm pretty new to KOF and to fighting games in general, I'm having difficulty with button imputs; I usually have to mash a few times to get the attacks out. Anyone got any tips? I'm using a Hori V3 fightstick for the PS3.
    KOF 13 fo'lyfe. Current team: Saiki/Ash/Kyo

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  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 537 ✭✭✭
    I'm pretty new to KOF and to fighting games in general, I'm having difficulty with button imputs; I usually have to mash a few times to get the attacks out. Anyone got any tips? I'm using a Hori V3 fightstick for the PS3.

    Only advice I can give you is: Don't mash the buttons for it to come out. Instead, figure out what you're doing wrong, and try do do it clean. Put the input display on in trainingmode and just look what's up.
  • TerrastormTerrastorm Joined: Posts: 263
    I'm pretty new to KOF and to fighting games in general, I'm having difficulty with button imputs; I usually have to mash a few times to get the attacks out. Anyone got any tips? I'm using a Hori V3 fightstick for the PS3.
    Try holding the last directional input as your pressing the corresponding button, for example, qcf+a, as you are finishing the input, hold onto f, then press a.
  • Great_Dark_HeroGreat_Dark_Hero Mai game is WAAAAAY better than your game Joined: Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭
    I have a question in relation to Leona - How exactly do you cancel charging moves into charging moves?
    https://twitter.com/Great_Dark_Hero http://ask.fm/Great_Dark_Hero
    KOFXIII: Mai / Hwa / Takuma (Subs: Elisabeth, Terry, King, Iori, Leona)
    DOA5U: Mila (Subs: Pai, Helena, Nyotengu)
    TTT2: Armor King/Jaycee (Subs: Michelle, Heihachi, Leo, Bruce)
    If you're learning about KOFXIII, please click on my FAQS here
    If you're learning how to play Mai Shiranui (or the Mai match up) on KOFXIII, start here

  • rogueyoshirogueyoshi Nothing Comes Easy Joined: Posts: 1,917
    I have a question in relation to Leona - How exactly do you cancel charging moves into charging moves?
    charge downback > upback+P > forward+K
    [1] > 7P > 6K
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  • Great_Dark_HeroGreat_Dark_Hero Mai game is WAAAAAY better than your game Joined: Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭
    I see... So you basically cancel the charge to start another charge. Thank you!
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    KOFXIII: Mai / Hwa / Takuma (Subs: Elisabeth, Terry, King, Iori, Leona)
    DOA5U: Mila (Subs: Pai, Helena, Nyotengu)
    TTT2: Armor King/Jaycee (Subs: Michelle, Heihachi, Leo, Bruce)
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  • otoriotori Keep calm and huehuehue Joined: Posts: 4,018 ✭✭✭✭
    Very noobish question: How does mad kof do the followup punches after df+D (the overhead) with Chin? If you press a punch afterwards he does it once, but MadKof does it 3-4 times before using a special, and he even does it raw for pressure. The wiki only lists this combo after a df+D: [SIZE=13px]df+D > P xx df+B, qcb+A[/SIZE][SIZE=13px] - (169, 20)[/SIZE]

    You can see it here at ~1:06
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    Very noobish question: How does mad kof do the followup punches after df+D (the overhead) with Chin? If you press a punch afterwards he does it once, but MadKof does it 3-4 times before using a special, and he even does it raw for pressure. The wiki only lists this combo after a df+D: [SIZE=13px]df+D > P xx df+B, qcb+A[/SIZE][SIZE=13px] - (169, 20)[/SIZE]
    As noted in the movelist on the wiki, Getsuga Soushu, the punch special, can be canceled into command normals and specials. If you cancel it into his d,d+P stance (which counts as a command normal), you can then press punch again to do the punch special again. For all the meterless combos I put up for Chin, they mainly show the simplest way to get from any starter to df+B, qcb+A, which sets up his 50% drive combos, which you usually want to use whenever you have the resources.
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  • otoriotori Keep calm and huehuehue Joined: Posts: 4,018 ✭✭✭✭
    Awesome thanks. The sad part is that I can just mash down and D and get all the punches lol. I also can't link close C after ex qcb CD but works 100% of the time if you mash =(

    Edit: lol I just realized this was Chin's second trial
  • SesshaZLSesshaZL 春麗 豪鬼 Joined: Posts: 1,022
    Is there like a guide on how to use normals correctly in this game? Like during breaks in block strings and in air toair situations it doesnt matter what i throw out it seems like my shit always gets stuffed. I think another thing to do with it is thats the normals are slow.as shit compared to 3s normals, could i just be possibly throwing them out at the wrong time?
    50/50 post Hyoukusen mixup is dirty!!
    Way more dangerous than outsiders perspective, "low forward super, yawn, I play better games" - WTF-AKUMA-HAX
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    KOF normals feel comparable to the good speed and hitboxes found in 3S, though there aren't any Chun 2F jabs in XIII. If you can somehow provide a more detailed example of an instance of how you're having trouble, I can try providing a more concrete answer. For now, this guide covers some basic spacial control with normals, though it wont solve your specific problems directly.
  • ZeromurasameZeromurasame Too much wrist action Joined: Posts: 364
    anything i should do when i'm facing a hwa who's drunk? just block it all/wait for a chance to roll out? any pattern/move i should look out for to punish? seems like he just goes nuts once he's drunk. i guess just downback and try to fight through it?

    also probably a really dumb question but can you tech grabs from neutral/neutral crouching?
    If I recall you can only tech throws from the stand blocking position. I'd like to know more about how to deal with Hwa Jai when he's all cracked out and I tend to just block/keep my distance until I notice a major mistake.

    Also are there any real tips on how to deal with Athena? I've been thinking I should work my way in slowly and once I'm in stay there. But man she can blow me up pretty badly if I'm not prepared. I normally lose air to air situations against her(That fucking J.CD is the bane of my existence). I can't play a fireball battle with her because of her reflector, plus not to mention I can get caught in an ugly guessing game between anti airs and her command grab.
    Long story short this character causes me nothing but headaches. I generally don't know how to handle the situation against a good Athena and usually go in blind.

    For reference my main team is Terry/King/Yuri in that order.
    No
  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 537 ✭✭✭
    I think another thing to do with it is thats the normals are slow.as shit compared to 3s normals, could i just be possibly throwing them out at the wrong time?

    They really aren't, but other normals are fast than you are used to probably.

    cl.C is usually incredibly fast (2~4 frames startup), although, considering your avatar, you might be used to this if you play 3s Chun.

    There's some general rules on the speed of normals in KOF, it's quite universal
    Close standing lights 3~5 frames startup
    Close standing heavies 2~4 frames startup or 5~8.
    Far standing light 3~5
    Far standing heavies 8~15
    Crouch lights 3~5
    Crouch C's 3~6
    Sweeps 7~12
    Stand CD's 12~20

    The biggest thing that is making your normals feel 'slow' is probably because there's no such thing as a 'medium punch' or 'medium kick', or in other words, moves that have more of an impact than jabs/shorts but still are low committal and difficult to whiff punish.

    And while this seems to be very 'well duh', it is a bigger deal than you'd think, and ends up having a huge influence on the way the game plays out.

    If you want something 'big', you're going to have to commit to a big move, with a ton of recovery, You can't just whiff heavies for no reason. The closest thing to having a 'low committal/heavy impact' move, is using hop heavies, which will only have recovery until you land.

    But obviously, the issue with using those as if they were chun-li's medium kick is that they have certain angles at which they're pretty vulnerable. and thus can be anti-aired, trip guard anti-aired etc.
    also probably a really dumb question but can you tech grabs from neutral/neutral crouching?

    In older KOF's, you could hold any non-neutral direction (so also down-back) and press C~D and tech verything. KOF's equivalent of a 'crouch tech'.

    Crouch tech is gone now. You have to be standing and either press forward or backward + C/D to tech.
  • SesshaZLSesshaZL 春麗 豪鬼 Joined: Posts: 1,022
    Thanks for the replies sparks and phoenix. Ill edit this post later tonight after playing some more and watching the replays so i can elaborate more on my problems. For what its worth right now I run duo, kim, and mai; i have pretty decent feeling for some of mai's normals, mainly far standing C and D.
    50/50 post Hyoukusen mixup is dirty!!
    Way more dangerous than outsiders perspective, "low forward super, yawn, I play better games" - WTF-AKUMA-HAX
  • yomipoweryomipower not a legendary game designer Joined: Posts: 1,165 ✭✭
    Yeah "crouch tech" is gone now, you actually have to stand up to break. Also it's a legit mixup now between C or D throw, though generally your opponent wants to throw you to the nearest corner, so break accordingly. If you're getting constantly thrown, give Alternate Guarding a try.
    Yomi, which is the Japanese word for the underworld. Also a brand of vitamins for children.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭✭
    Actually it's not like 02/um. It doesn't matter which button you use between C and D to tech a C or D throw. So you can tech a D throw with the C button, unlike 02/um where it has to be the respective button.
  • EmXEmX Joined: Posts: 845
    I think another thing to do with it is thats the normals are slow.as shit compared to 3s normals, could i just be possibly throwing them out at the wrong time?

    Yes
  • AwesomersaurAwesomersaur LAB Falken Joined: Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭
    What's the generally accepted method to playing Leona?
    恐竜
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭✭
    What's the generally accepted method to playing Leona?
    Any which way. Personally I space and pressure with j.CD and put them in enough blockstun and always threaten with instant overhead into knockdown and cr.B x2 st.B xx knockdown. j.CD is just a means for me get back in that is a bit difficult to contest with a grounded normal attack anti-air. It's easier to deal with in this game than in the past, but it's still a good tool. Otherwise Leona could pull a hit and run kind of style and try to coax opponents moving into spaces where she can easily anti-air and air to air. Down back Leona kinda works but you need to be able to play on the offensive as well if you're down on life differential. So it's good to learn how to be flexible with her and have an offensive gameplan.
  • Nagato/Kisame1992Nagato/Kisame1992 Dat "dropped combo" feeling Joined: Posts: 667
    Any advice on how to fight mature? I am having very bad problems fighting that character at almost every step of the road and even after playing a good mature player and going into the lab I cannot seem to understand her. When I have a character like Andy I can pressure her well with changing up my blockstrings with fireball instead of zeineken because she can punish either L or H version via s.L

    Same for Vice, but the thing about vice I don't understand is how her air BBack move beats just about everything.
    KOF13 characters I play: Kim/Andy/Iori/Ex Iori/Joe/Shen/Ex Kyo/Hwa/Kyo/K/Ralf/Mature and the list goes on.
  • AwesomersaurAwesomersaur LAB Falken Joined: Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭
    Alright well let me throw my general playstyle out there and see if there's some approving or disapproving smilieys then.

    Typically with Leona I do not use her J CD as it takes a week to come out comparatively to the other characters I spend most of my time on (Takuma, K', Athena, Shen) the only real use I can see coming from it is off jumps or SJ as most of the time when I attempt a J CD from a hop either the active frames will not come out due to startup or I will get tagged before said active frames decide to come out. At the moment I am relying heavily on her grounded CD more so than anything else, kara cancelled into either her D dashing move (loses to neutral jumps) or her big blue balls either A to halt forrward advancement or C to stuff attempted jumps whgen they figure that stuff out. Chuck earrings from full screen or after a knockdown in order to set up a n obstacle course on oki. I will not mention her cr B chains as they're clearly extremely important to her gameplan and I would expect are assumed.

    Air to air I find she struggles against characters (barring V-Slasher obviously) with anything but her nJ D, or J B. You can use her J CD in situations like this as well I would assume however the long startup has me far more careful about smashing on CD in the air.

    So far these compounded methods of play have racked me up plenty of wins (God willing they reach Leona ), but a few things seem really out of place, in particular the CD XX dash seems extremely gimmicky but most people have a nightmare of a time dealing with it (even with 1F throws as she can push herself out with the hitbox) but without said gimmicks I would find controlling horizontal space relegated to earring (no thanks) or up close with the ball/far st C.

    So yea that's where I'm at with her, I've worked in her HD combos already which most people have claimed are hard as balls so that part of my game dowesn't really need any help, now I'm sitting on fundamentals and considering either rotating my current style of playy to something more legitimate, or continuing with a good thing and running the same gameplan.

    Nagato IIRC you can duck under Vice's air blowback 100% of the time
    恐竜
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    Same for Vice, but the thing about vice I don't understand is how her air BBack move beats just about everything.
    You meant Vice's j.CD? Yeah, just about every character (I'm not sure if Daimon, Raiden, and Maxima) can just crouch it every time and then punish her with a sweep or cr.B into a combo, so her j.CD is more for air-to-airing. Her main jump in that you'll actually have to look out for is either j.C or j.A, but on their own they're not that great at air-to-airing so whenever she commits to her standard jump-ins she wont likely be able to land an anywhere juggle unless you try hopping too late or something.

    Vice gets blown up by zoning since she lacks any sort of fast invuln move other than NEOMAX, and her slightly above average hop arc combined with her lacking a good horizontal-vertical jump-in leaves her with the basics. Many Vice players put themselves on blast from doing too many j.CDs or panic air-to-airs, both easily punishable by crouching and tagging her landing with a cr.B hitconfirm. It's a bad habit you can really look out for on her, especially since her grounded anti-airs aren't that great, especially her cr.C which doesn't quite cut it for keeping people out of her vertical space. Because of this, Vice's most consistent AA methods involve meeting the opponent in the air with j.B/j.CD or setting up for a cr.B/cr.D tripguard, but her actual grounded answers are weak and her qcb+AC is invuln, but too slow for her to realistically anti-air a hop (the only really super yomi answer I can imagine is reacting with a tiger knee airgrab, but there's still the startup of the hop which can slow her down. And on one further note, if you're especially worried about her anywhere juggle, just always approach her with a j.CD in the air, so as long as your characters have a good one that works as an air-to-air or air-to-ground. So even if Andy's j.CD trades with Vice's j.B, she'll go into a soft knockdown and be unable to recover in time to scoop you in with her EX sleeve.

    Otherwise just watch out for her grappler setups into hcb f+P. It's sort of hard to alternate guard against her for long because of her good cr.B, but at the very least her qcf+P flying grab is not only reactable, but also quite easy to anti-air. Her hcf+K arm whip is a really good poke that can anti-air hops, but it's still possible to get into a somewhat close range and then hop over it and onto her, or counterhit her with a projectile or other fast poke. She can't continually poke with this attack because of the stiff startup and recovery, so keep that in mind before trying to jump at her because that might be what she wants so that she can air-to-air the jump for a combo.
  • GrayFoxGrayFox Emperor of Fighters Joined: Posts: 20
    kupo

    what do you think about these teams ?
    [SIZE=11px]Team.A 1st-Kensou/2nd-Takuma/[/SIZE][SIZE=11px]3rd-Shen[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11px]Team.B 1st-King/2nd-Joe/3rd-Kyo[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11px]Team.C 1st-Robert/2nd-Ex.Kyo/[/SIZE][SIZE=11px]3rd-Maxima[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11px]Team.D 1st-K'/2nd-Chin/3rd-Daimon[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11px]Team.E 1st-Ryo/2nd-Andy/3rd-Ralf[/SIZE]
    thanks
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