Last Blade 2 Character Guides/Advanced System thread

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  • 0sh0sh AKA Vadsamoht Joined: Posts: 537
    edited June 2016
    Holy shit I think I just hit the jackpot. You might not hear from me for a bit (busy with other stuff), but expect good things. EDIT: See below.
    Post edited by 0sh on
    SFIV: Sakura (Poison?) | Skullgirls: Fortune/Bella | LB2: Yuki/Hibiki
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 909
    0sh wrote: »
    My guess would be:
    Cyan: Startup
    Red: Active
    Green: Invincible (Flash? The long times make it seem likely to be a DM/SDM anyway)
    Blue: Recovery.

    Also can at least confirm that the title (Japanese line at the top) says that it's frame data for o.Kaede.

    EDIT: Also re. the confusion about notation - A・B is the notation used in some Japanese games, though I'm not 100% sure what for (probably chains?). (A・B) ・C thus probably means that C has that frame data regardless of whether it is prefaced by A・B or not.

    The one with the long startup is his unblockable in power. The green might represent the unblockable frames or something. Or it has small invincibility. No clue
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • 0sh0sh AKA Vadsamoht Joined: Posts: 537
    edited June 2016
    lol I couldn't wait - I hope this is useful to you guys and not just stuff you already know.

    So I've found some frame data. Not just frame data, in fact, but hitboxes etc. as well. Unfortunately it's not complete but there's a fair bit of information for a fair amount of characters. Not counting Kouryu for obvious reasons, the only character with no data at all is Moriya.

    The site is here with lots of useful info: http://www006.upp.so-net.ne.jp/syuminoheya/gekka.htm

    But for those of you who can't read any Japanese there is an index to the frame data here: http://www006.upp.so-net.ne.jp/syuminoheya/waza00.htm

    And there's a description of what the data means here (though I doubt you'll need it): http://www006.upp.so-net.ne.jp/syuminoheya/waza01.htm

    The layout of the index is pretty simple: Character names on the left, the first link in each line (pages ending with -00) is for normals, the second (-01) for specials and the third (-02) for supers. If you can't read the names of the characters and are too lazy to look them up, hover over the links with your mouse - you should be able to work out the names from the url it points to.

    For other parts of the site, Google translate is your friend. If you run into problems I can try to help - no promises though.

    I've made a backup of all the frame data pages before posting it here in case it happens to disappear, however the pages seem somewhat old (most updates are from pre-2009 2006-07) and I obviously can't guarantee that they're accurate. And finally, massive props to the person/people who made the original pages.
    SFIV: Sakura (Poison?) | Skullgirls: Fortune/Bella | LB2: Yuki/Hibiki
  • Yuri_AcTNYuri_AcTN Fighting Game Enthusiast Joined: Posts: 1,114
    Amazing find, Osh! I love you so much for this. <3
    - Blog: https://actnblog.wordpress.com/
    - Twitter: https://twitter.com/actnyuri

    ===============

    "Another victory, yes, but... there is always another battle." — Arbiter
  • StoneDrumStoneDrum Joined: Posts: 1,096
    Holy shit. You did it!! Yo how'd you find it?

    Are we gonna update the US wiki? It needs fixing anyway
  • 0sh0sh AKA Vadsamoht Joined: Posts: 537
    StoneDrum wrote: »
    Yo how'd you find it?

    TBH just google-fu plus a very basic ability to read Japanese. Took 30 minutes or so. Honestly I'd like to put more time into looking for whatever full version the current players have, but I've got assignments/exams so this'll probably have to do for the time being.
    SFIV: Sakura (Poison?) | Skullgirls: Fortune/Bella | LB2: Yuki/Hibiki
  • StoneDrumStoneDrum Joined: Posts: 1,096
    What did you search in Google? I wonder if that's the most complete data and I wonder who knows about it..
  • 0sh0sh AKA Vadsamoht Joined: Posts: 537
    edited June 2016
    japanese for character names and FG terminology (frame data, damage, startup, etc.) and then just reading some of the results (which were mostly useless 2ch posts or very oblique references) and clicking links that seemed likely to lead somewhere useful.

    On my travels I also found this interesting site which has completely borked text unless you read google's cached version, but you can't google translate a google cache. Not a big worry anyway, as there isn't any hugely important data there - most of it is just things like how much damage a move does or if it needs to be blocked low/high etc. The isometric pixel-art characters are cute tho.
    SFIV: Sakura (Poison?) | Skullgirls: Fortune/Bella | LB2: Yuki/Hibiki
  • StoneDrumStoneDrum Joined: Posts: 1,096
    Ahh I saved those isometric sprites. Too cute. Would look cute in the wiki lol
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 909
    edited June 2016
    Well my phone went nuts when it tried translating but I'll see what it does on my PC at home. Awesome find I'll get the wiki updated eventually
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • StoneDrumStoneDrum Joined: Posts: 1,096
    dracula x can you explain 9 10 and 11 on the chart?

    wavgi9y.png
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 909
    10 and 11 I don't know Japanese very well so

    #9 I don't know for sure. Might have something to do with deflecting I guess? This could be like 3s where parrying is blocking in Japan. I.e. Guarding = deflecting? I'll mess with it and see if I can come up with anything that hits that number.
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • 0sh0sh AKA Vadsamoht Joined: Posts: 537
    edited June 2016
    11 is where you can execute the move - pretty sure 立屈空 means standing, 屈 means crouching, 立空 means in the air.

    10 Has something to do with "passive", which I'm not sure about. it could refer to blocking, deflecting or something else. Basically that row in the table is whether you can do a "passive" on the ground or in the air, whatever that means.

    EDIT: And yeah, #9 seems to be to do with deflecting (or 'guarding' as they call it in Japanese).
    SFIV: Sakura (Poison?) | Skullgirls: Fortune/Bella | LB2: Yuki/Hibiki
  • Yuri_AcTNYuri_AcTN Fighting Game Enthusiast Joined: Posts: 1,114
    I believe #10 means "ukemi", which the player can either air or ground tech out of the opponent's attack after a certain amount of time.
    - Blog: https://actnblog.wordpress.com/
    - Twitter: https://twitter.com/actnyuri

    ===============

    "Another victory, yes, but... there is always another battle." — Arbiter
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 909
    edited June 2016
    According to a friend of mine who knows Japanese 10 is defensive and 11 is a gun/pistol or a person who plays music.

    So that's helpful
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • StoneDrumStoneDrum Joined: Posts: 1,096
    I'm new to the game so don't judge if this is stupid:

    But could 9 mean like how many frames both players must wait before the game actively applies the plus/minus advantage frames?
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 909
    StoneDrum wrote: »
    I'm new to the game so don't judge if this is stupid:

    But could 9 mean like how many frames both players must wait before the game actively applies the plus/minus advantage frames?

    Eh no game counts on the frame they are hit. Might be like time if the attack is plain whiffed
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • StoneDrumStoneDrum Joined: Posts: 1,096
    Hmm "/ I don't think it involves whiff because it seems to deal with guarding. I tried to ask a Japanese player but he English wasn't good enough. He said guard rigid frames... I dunno it gives me the impression like when you strike the opponent and they block and then there's that recoil
  • 0sh0sh AKA Vadsamoht Joined: Posts: 537
    I guess we could always ask Junichi, but it's probably best is we make a list of all the things we can't understand instead of bugging him over and over. Is there anything else you can't figure out?
    SFIV: Sakura (Poison?) | Skullgirls: Fortune/Bella | LB2: Yuki/Hibiki
  • StoneDrumStoneDrum Joined: Posts: 1,096
    I think the high level system breaks and techniques might need clarification for some of them, such as alternating guard.

    I'll make a list soon of stuff I'm confused on then y'all could trim it down to what you get then pass it on
  • StoneDrumStoneDrum Joined: Posts: 1,096
    edited June 2016
    OK, so after more reading, i've learned a few things.

    First thing: THE GUARD REDUCTION MECHANIC IS *THE* MOST IMPORTANT HIGH LEVEL MECHANIC. Mastering this mechanic will separate good from high level play! This is stated in both japanese websites that all of this info is coming from as well as the one in found on the previous thread page.

    Second thing: is that understanding exactly how japanese players and the system count frames is important to reading the frame data, but more telling is that understanding the guard reduction mechanic is crucial, since the frame advantage/disadvantage numbers assume that the player performed the guard reduction as fast as possible. understanding how this works may take someone fluent in japanese to explain sections 5 and 9 below, as explained on this page: www006.upp.so-net.ne.jp/syuminoheya/waza01.htm

    ⑤:技の攻撃判定が最初のフレームでヒットした場合、ガードされた場合の硬直差を剣質毎に表記しています。色分けや多段技の扱いは④や⑥、⑧欄と同様です。キャンセル等を行わず、技を単発で止めた場合の硬直差を、ヒット時/ガードされた時、プラスの数値は技を出した自分のキャラクターが有利、マイナスは不利として表しています。目押しで他の技に繋げる場合は、硬直差のヒット時フレーム数-1以下の発生速度を持つ技を選択する必要がある点に注意してください。例では、発生速度が5-1=4フレーム以下の技であれば繋げることが可能であることを示しています。また、例では攻撃判定の持続が2フレームなので、相手の起き上がり等に重ねて2フレーム目を当てた場合には、発生速度が5フレーム以下の技が繋がることになります。ガードされた場合でも同様に、数値の絶対値より1少ない発生速度の技で反撃されることになります。例では、発生速度6フレーム以下の技で反撃されることを示しています。攻撃判定の2フレーム目をガードされた場合は、5フレーム以下の技で反撃されます。なお、ガードされた場合の硬直差は、相手がガード硬直短縮を最速で行った場合の数値になっています。表記が-のみの部分は、その技がダウンを奪える技だったり、回復可能なよろけを誘発する技だったり、相手キャラクターと行動次第で変化する部分を示しています(一部、単なる調査不足のところで?表記し忘れたところがあるかもしれません)。

    ⑨:その技をガードした場合の、最小ガード硬直時間です。ガードストップ時間も含めた、現実の硬直フレーム数を表記しています。本ゲームでは、ガード硬直短縮が行われることを前提にして奥深く緻密な攻防が成り立っているため、ガード硬直短縮を行わなかった場合の硬直フレームは表記していません。多段技は「,」で区切って表記しています。


    In addition, here, I listed subsections from this website: www006.upp.so-net.ne.jp/syuminoheya/gekka.htm
    that could use clarification, as they appear to provide useful information as well as some interesting charts and graphs that may be of good use. of special note may be subsections 4 and 5, because again, they seem to break down the guard reduction mechanic.

    2.) explanation of subsection "after playing GC"

    3.) explanation of subsection "tricks comparison"

    4.) explanation of subsection "specifications of defense"

    5.) explanation of subsection "nokezori"


    here is what I myself understand about the guard reduction: it is done by either shifting from crouch to stand or stand to crouch guard. shifting multiple times does not mean gradual decrease in guard reduction. whether this means you only must switch guards once is unclear, but seems likely. I am still unsure of what the guard rigidity frames refer to in number 9 in the chart, or how exactly the mechanic works.
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 909
    edited June 2016
    Guard rigidity might be referring to attacks in power (force in the websites) that put your character in a reeling animation on block like most A and B attacks. Another thing added to my list of stuff to check.

    After playing GC seems to give examples of optimal stuff to do after a ground to air deflect or guard cancel (412D). For Zantetsu in power it says dash slice, air 236a/Bx2 and speed (trick? on the site) it shows jump A, jump B xx air 2C then air 236A/Bx2 for otg. Which are optimal in for damage and meter gain. If your life is flashing then his DM followed by air 236A/B x2 is better for damage.

    Tricks comparison I'm still going through.
    Post edited by Dracula_X on
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • HanzoHimemiyaHanzoHimemiya Joined: Posts: 28
    Hey,here is the frame data of Last Blade 2

    http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown/3331/gekka/data/

    They have power,speed and EX versions
  • StoneDrumStoneDrum Joined: Posts: 1,096
    how do you even read that alien text :rofl:
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 909
    edited June 2016
    That's the same site osh found. Use google catche and copy the text you want translated and try it that way.

    Edit: I think that's the site I found a long time ago actually.
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • 0sh0sh AKA Vadsamoht Joined: Posts: 537
    edited June 2016
    Yeah, but it's mostly useless stuff - doesn't even go deep enough to include any frame numbers for anything.

    also @StoneDrum, I was thinking more along the lines of getting a translation for a small list of terms - I doubt he'll have time to translate huge paragraphs of stuff. Plus him posting the response via twitter would probably be a pain. For the larger paragraphs, google translate + existing knowledge of the game should be enough to figure most of it out anyway methinks.
    SFIV: Sakura (Poison?) | Skullgirls: Fortune/Bella | LB2: Yuki/Hibiki
  • Yuri_AcTNYuri_AcTN Fighting Game Enthusiast Joined: Posts: 1,114
    Been spending some time in the training room with Hibiki and I find it interesting that she can cancel into her special moves/DM/SDM off from Run+B. Even more interesting that in Speed/EX Mode, after executing Run+B, she cancel into Down+B > Forward+B > 623+B (very useful if the opponent is placed in the corner for combo possibilities).

    I also recently find out that after executing Shikabane wo koeyuku nari (2,2B), she can drop the initial hit of the chain combo and link into her normal moves and SDM.
    - Blog: https://actnblog.wordpress.com/
    - Twitter: https://twitter.com/actnyuri

    ===============

    "Another victory, yes, but... there is always another battle." — Arbiter
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 909
    edited June 2016
    Yeah all characters get the chains from dashing B in speed/ex. It's a reliable way for Moriya to combo 2B and be able to cancel it. I.e. Dash B, 2B, BC, 214B, 623A,623B vs cornered opponent. It's stylish for sure and good damage for most everyone. Washizuka dash B, 2B xx [4] 6 C, 236 C etc. you can't cancel forward B though to my knowledge.

    Character that can combo out of 22A/B of the top of my head: Hibiki (B), Akari (B), Juzoh (B), Yuki (B), Amano (22B, HEADBUTTS) , Zantetsu (after most hits of one of his speed combos) o.kaede (A) and I think Kaede can off of 22A as well, I'll have to check. Edit: Kaede 22A, 4A into stuff. There's probably more but most are for style. Zantetsu and Akari can do it for awesome combos and to build a bunch of meter back.

    Edit: Mukuro can do 22A/B A,B,C,2C,6AC then link 4A into whatever. Forgot about that one .
    Post edited by Dracula_X on
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • StoneDrumStoneDrum Joined: Posts: 1,096
    I'm kinda struggling with Amano, maybe cuz once the opponent is in I get wrecked. It seems like all of his normals are unsafe on block up close, or at least negative to the point where it's impossible to guess whether I should immediately block or get my ass thrown xD
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 909
    Poke with 2A, cancel into 646B xx damage when it hits. You should be able to block anything they try after if they block, if you are in throw range though you are possibly screwed since throws are damn near instant. 4B (BCD) is good for poking too.
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • shojushoju Joined: Posts: 187
    The PS4 version is a real disappointment. Noticeable input lag and smearing when the characters move quickly.
  • StoneDrumStoneDrum Joined: Posts: 1,096
    shoju wrote: »
    The PS4 version is a real disappointment. Noticeable input lag and smearing when the characters move quickly.

    my exact issues.... it's really disappointing
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 909
    Fightcade ftw. Get the ps4 version to support the game, play it on fightcade
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • Yuri_AcTNYuri_AcTN Fighting Game Enthusiast Joined: Posts: 1,114
    Basically what Dracula said, though the PS4 version isn't all that bad, as long as you don't bypass 100 pings. For the afterimage filter, I thought that has already existed on home console versions?
    - Blog: https://actnblog.wordpress.com/
    - Twitter: https://twitter.com/actnyuri

    ===============

    "Another victory, yes, but... there is always another battle." — Arbiter
  • IbokiIboki Joined: Posts: 206
    I don't want to support a half assed cash in. If SNK wants to be a real company dedicated to games again, they should output quality.
  • IbokiIboki Joined: Posts: 206
    @Dracula_X or anyone, you play last blade 1? if so what do you think? seems like a really different game because of infinites
  • LurchLurch Joined: Posts: 2
    FYI for anyone in the Denver colorado area

    there's an arcade called hyperspace 80's that has two snk cabinets with the 161 games in 1 cartridges. This includes LB1 and 2 among other games.

  • RichterRichter ~~~00~~~ Joined: Posts: 1,873
    Is there a Discord chat for this game? I don't see anyone on Fightcade ever :(
    coffee.gifapplaud.gifkarate.gifthumbsup.gifwtf.gifpray.gifsmokin.gifparty.gifcool2.gifchinasmile.gifnunchuck.gifsad.gifeek.pngmad.pngcybot.gif
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 909
    edited January 16
    @Richter Yeah it's here: https://discord.gg/UwkY4

    That'll expire in a day though
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  • RichterRichter ~~~00~~~ Joined: Posts: 1,873
    Awesome, thanks :tup:
    coffee.gifapplaud.gifkarate.gifthumbsup.gifwtf.gifpray.gifsmokin.gifparty.gifcool2.gifchinasmile.gifnunchuck.gifsad.gifeek.pngmad.pngcybot.gif
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 909
    Discord permalink: https://discord.gg/5hPnBAs
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