Last Blade 2 Character Guides/Advanced System thread

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  • Josh-TheFunkDOCJosh-TheFunkDOC Double Dutch! Joined: Posts: 2,404 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Wow, mad thanks for all your work here!

    I never knew infinites were banned. I used to play Walchuk on Kaillera way back when, and he'd abuse Akari's against me and I'd use Zan's AC.

    You missed one thing with Speed Hibiki though...

    If you combo into dp+B, you can cancel it into her counter (whiff) and then connect a speed combo while they're in that stun. Gotta be rather close for dp+B to stun them, but IIRC it still gets more damage than comboing into the DM.

    I never read this forum much before, so that's how I missed this. Boy am I sorry for that...many thanks once again!
    http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-speedrunning - My live stream, mainly speedruns w/ some other stuff now and then
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Well, most of my posts here are hardly in-depth anyway, but thanks for listing it.
    I'm not a huge fan of that combo though, because:
    A) You have to be like point blank for it to connect, and her DM is combo-able from way further away.
    B) The timing on it is tight, and if you screw up, you basically blew your meter and left yourself open for attack.
    C)You have to do the :dp::snkb: almost instantly for it to connect. There's no time to hit confirm it.

    I usually just hit it off a reset in the corner, because Hibiki's strongest there anyway.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Is it just me, or does the code for Unawakened Kaede not work in console mode ?
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    It's just you.
    C9, B1, C4.

    Gotta do it fast.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    It's just you.
    C9, B1, C4.

    Gotta do it fast.

    Maybe its Kawaks then, cause every time I tried it in console mode I never heard Kaede's voice to confirm the cheat worked. Worked fine every time in Arcade mode though.
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Dunno why you'd use kawaks anyway considering that 95% of the people online use MAME.
    Kawaks has really terrible desyncing issues with older Neo Geo games as well. Samurai Shodown 4 and Last Blade 2 are especially bad.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Dunno why you'd use kawaks anyway considering that 95% of the people online use MAME.

    You mean 95% of America right :wonder: ?.

    Most people in europe use Kawaks, prolly 80%.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hm, Kyokuji.. Do you know anything about speed Okina? So far, what I've toyed around with is pretty fun.. but any indepth help?
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I actually posted a quick rundown of Okina on the first page.
    I really wouldn't recommend him as a starting character, but remember that his rod is unblockable and comboable. You want to go in and out quickly with Okina. Do a quick combo, then back off and start zoning again and wait for another opportunity. Stick with jumping A and C most of the time.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thanks, I'll check that first page.

    Any rec's for a starting character?
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    It's at the bottom of the first post, but:

    Speed Setsuna
    Power Mukuro
    Speed Moriya
    Speed Zantetsu
    Speed Akari

    -are all good starter characters.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I've discovered that along with being able to whiff Shigen's throw in the air, he can also attack after whiffing the throw however many times he wants. It's not as useful as I thought it would be, but you can fool some people into trying to punish you on reaction. Also increases your chances of grabbing someone as they try to jump up to meet you.

    I've also heard of some B+D thing the Japanese are doing with Amano's back+B, but I haven't noticed any difference myself when I use it.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • Mushishi GinkoMushishi Ginko Joined: Posts: 210
    Thanks for putting together these guides. They've helped me grow much quicker than I would have otherwise. It's too bad there's such a small pool of players online, but it's still fun.
    Do I know the meaning of rhetorical?
    - Homer Simpson
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Honestly, I play a lot of other games. A3, 3S, ST, VS, and I still think this is one of the deepest fighters around. I've been playing it for 5 years, and I'm still finding new shit.
    And if you know what you're doing, there's almost no way you'll end up losing to random shit, and you can't really lag abuse in this, because the jumps are so floaty and hopping is an integral part of the game anyway. Plus, most specials are punishable on block, so it's really unforgiving towards that kind of spam as well.

    I was messing around with Mukuro and I came up with some new 50/50 mix-ups utilizing his crawl:

    (If they don't air recover after the :snkb:)

    :l::snka: :l::snka: :l::snka:, :r::snkc: > :r::l::r: :snkc: > :snkb: > :r::l::r::snkc: (Cross under) > (Hold down after you cross-up to cancel the crawl) > Low-jump :uf::snkb: (crosses up)

    :l::snka: :l::snka: :l::snka:, :r::snkc: > :r::l::r: :snkc: > :snkb: > :r::l::r::snkc:
    (Cross under) > (Hold down after you cross-up to cancel the crawl) > Low-jump :u::snkb:

    :l::snka: :l::snka: :l::snka:, :r::snkc: > :r::l::r: :snkc: > :snkb: > :r::l::r::snkc:
    (Hold down right away so you don't cross under) > Low-jump :uf::snkb: (crosses up)

    :l::snka: :l::snka: :l::snka:, :r::snkc: > :r::l::r: :snkc: > :snkb: > :r::l::r: :snkc:
    (Hold down right away so you don't cross under) > Low-jump :u::snkb:

    :l::snka: :l::snka: :l::snka:, :r::snkc: > :r::l::r: :snkc: > :snkb: > :r::l::r::snkc:
    (Hold down right away so you don't cross under) > :l::snka: :l::snka: :l::snka:, :r::snkc: > :r::l::r: :snkc: > Repeat or :dp::snkb:

    (If they air recover, you should've cancelled into the crawl by now)

    Just :snkb: them again on the way down.
    Or if you see it coming in advance, cancel the :snkb: into :dp::snkb: instead of the crawl.

    These are very nasty mix-ups because it's extremely difficult to tell whether he's crossed you up or not. When you hold down to cancel the dash and prevent the cross-up, he still goes under them for a split second before he comes back on the same side, so visually it's very confusing.

    They're not as useful as they could've been since his damage is so high that you don't really need this kind of thing anyway, but this, coupled with his :snkc: reset that he has during the same crawl chain, just makes him that much more deadly, because you get to force them to choose between guaranteed damage and a mix-up that will possibly kill them or put them in danger.

    Updated the Mukuro guide with this as well.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I've been playing Power Okina for some time and have found him startlingly usable in close combat (to be used in conjunction with turtle zoning and hit and run tactics mind you).

    -I find his :hcb::snkc: to be the best finisher off a sucessful combo, both for the damage and positioning. Additionally, as long as they ground recover, you can pseudo-infinite them with :d::snkb:/:snkb:>:hcb::snkc:. The slight recovery lag on the end also makes you an appealing target to roll towards, setting up for the other use of :hcb::snkc:, as an overhead wakeup, as Kyokuji discussed earlier. In certain situations it can be thrown out as air defence as well. As with anything, use it judiciously, but in the right circumstances it can really provide that firepower Okina needs in close range.

    -His :dp::snka: is unquestionably a top-tier move,. It provides an excellent unblockable (and undeflectable?) finisher for a blocked combo and does fair damage (they really add up). Some people swear by this move but it definately takes back-seat to :hcb::snkc: off a hit. Many people like to try to avoid it by jumping if you dont combo it properly, but with Okina's hight, you're typically over the recovery lag by the time you're in range for most aerials if they dont short hop it.

    -His SDM (:r::hcf::snkb:) is chainable off his :r::snkc: if they are just under halfway from the edge of the screen (its pretty tight spacing).

    -Feel free to use his :bdp::snka: as a finisher to escape combos if you think they can punish :dp::snka:/:hcb::snkc:. Depending on their character/reaction time, its typically nice to toss a turtle or two from safety and, if you're really courageous/they block :qcf::snka: on the ground, a :dp::snkc: for nice dmg/added humiliation.

    -His super cancel is utterly worthless, do not use it (OK, :hcb::snkb:>:r::hcf::snka::snkb: works off a deflect but you need to throw the :hcb::snkb: out absolutely instantly upon parry). If that full power bar is really burning a hole in your pocket, wait for a high jump, dash under them and let it rip or something.

    -:bdp::snkb:/:snkc: are worthless. You can sometimes surprise someone trying to projectile zone you with a :bdp::snkb: but there are so many other options at your disposal to deal with people at a range that you deserve whatever you'll probably end up eating.

    -I've managed to land :r::snkc:>:hcb::snkb:>:r::hcf::snka::snkb: (if it doesn't reset you didnt do it properly) once from close to the corner against a Shigen (not in the corner though). I'd appreciate any information as to whether this actually combos though.

    Happy whacking-
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    :dp::snka: is much better as an ender for several reasons:

    1) It's safe if the first hits of the combo are blocked
    2) You have to be almost point blank for :hcb::snkc: to chain properly.

    If you do:

    :l::snka:, :l::snka:, :snka: > :dp::snka: > :df::snkb:, it does more damage than a :hcb::snkc: combo would anyway. Even if you remove the first :l::snka:, and if you use :d::snka:, it has a much better chance of hitting.
    The potential for more damage with the :hcb::snkc: stuff seems appealing, but it won't work on anyone worth their salt in this game.

    The only time you'd use his DM is off a close ground parry, but honestly you're better off just guard cancelling a lot with him.

    The reason why I say he's hit and run is because once people learn how to jump the rod, you're gonna have to move in and out trying to land that one good hit. Turtles are just there to keep them on their toes and to get some extra damage, but yes I do think he's better than people give him credit for. He just has a couple bad match-ups.

    Namely Zantetsu, Moriya, and Amano.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I've never played a worthwhile Amano, whats he got on Okina apart from massive dmg? Moriya is a medium difficulty if they can't glitch, if they can its curtains. You have any tips at all for that one? I mean between Okina's total loss of his projectile/zoning game to the teleport/:qcb::snkb:, and the obvious damage output difference it's slightly unbalanced. I started my playing locally before going online and most people I knew played Zantetsu so now I can deal with him pretty well. Just can't mess up. I see what you're saying about :dp::snka: too, just ran the combos through the machine and :dp::snka: does have more dmg potential overall. :hcb::snkc: still is definately good even if you throw it out just to keep Okina from suffering from Setsuna-esque one dimensionality (and it can catch jumpers expecting :dp::snka: if they dont immediately throw out a poke).
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Honestly, the easiest way to show you would just be online. I'm on GodWeapon most of the time (right now as a matter of fact). The competition's pretty thin these days anyway so it's not like you have a lot to worry about.

    Amano's stick rush move travels the full distance of the screen, so if you guess wrong with a turtle, you're eating that into his DM for sure which is like over half of your bar.

    As for Moriya, that's where his rod is useful. You can bait them into teleporting onto one by tossing out the occasional turtle.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • Ultimate_BraverUltimate_Braver Just Call Me Braver Joined: Posts: 256
    great guides kyokuji.
    im finally getting the timing on kaede's pokes.
    i can barely find people to test kaede's pokes over kaillera :sad: might actually be harder over kalleria with the sudden lag

    thanks for the guides :lovin:
    I play anything old.
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 915
    Yeah timing the links on kaillera is a bit different due to the delay. I usually start a lone game and go into practice mode and try stuff. Hit me up on msn or aim at some point and we'll play hopefully.

    I agree thaT Onika is deceptivly strong.
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • Cavern mantisCavern mantis frame eater Joined: Posts: 41
    I did not want to create a last blade thread,so i post here.
    What makes 2 more poular than 1?
    In fact i played both and i personally preferred the 1 but not by far and i wondered which one was more balanced?
    "you gotta hold that sucker down"
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    2 is a lot more advanced in terms of game mechanics.
    It has air/ground recovering, air parrying, crouch parrying, much more fluid movement and more advanced combo mechanics compared to Last Blade 1.
    It also has much much less slowdown and more characters.

    I also prefer Last Blade 1's music/backgrounds, but 2 plays a hell of a lot better.
    As for balance, I have no idea. Last Blade 2 is relatively balanced outside of Zantetsu, but I've heard people saying that certain characters are broke in the first one as well.
    The main difference with 1 is that you can start speed chains from :d::snka:.

    I'll say this. There's no match-up in LB2 that's un-winnable, although Zantetsu's a load of crap. The only person who has to struggle a lot regardless of the match-up is Yuki, and even then if you learn to utilize her jump :snkb: properly, it's not 'that' bad.
    No Yun VS Sean type crap at least.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    You got anything for Amano?
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Yeah, I'll toss something up when I'm in the mood.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Amano

    Couple things

    You can cancel the stick swing move by holding :snkb: and then pressing :snkd:
    He has a special taunt with :qcf: start. It'll fill up some of his super bar, and you have autoguard while you do it, but you take full damage. Not really useful for anything besides well.. taunting.

    Power

    :l::snka: (x2 or 3), :d::snka: > :r::l::r::snka:/:snkb: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:
    :d::snka: > :r::l::r::snka:/:snkb: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:
    :snkc::snkd:> (Dash-in for half a second) > :dp::snkc: (Difficult)
    :l::snkb:, :d::snka: > :r::l::r::snka:/:snkb: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:
    :snka:, :l::snka: (x2), :d::snka: > :r::l::r::snka:/:snkb: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:
    :hcb::hcb::snka:/:snkb: > (early) :dp::snkc: > :dp::snkc:
    Dash :snka:/:snkb: > :d::snka: > Follow-up of your choice
    :snka: > :l::snka: (x2), :d::snka: > :r::l::r::snka: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:
    :snka: > :d::snka: > :r::l::r::snka: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:
    :d::snkc: > :l::snka: > :d::snka: > :r::l::r::snka:/:snkb: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:
    :d::snka: > :df::df::snkc:
    :d::snka: (x4) > :r::l::r::snka:/:snkb: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb: (Difficult)
    (Corner)
    :uf::snkc: > :d::snkb: > :hcb::snka: > (low-jump) :uf::snkc:, :d::snkb:, :d::snka: > :r::l::r::snka: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb: (Extremely difficult) (Not exactly sure what the conditions are to get the :hcb::snka: to chain)

    Speed

    :l::snka: (x2), :d::snka:, :d::snkb: > :r::l::r::snkb:
    :l::snkb: (x2), :l::snka:, :d::snka:, :d::snkb: > :r::l::r::snkb:
    :l::snka: (x2), :d::snka: > :df::df::snkc:
    :l::snka: (x2), :d::snka: > :dp::snkc:
    :d::snkc: > follow-up of your choice
    :d::d::snka:/:snkb: > :snka:, :snkb:, :snkc:, :d::snkc:, :d::snkc:, :r::snkb::snkc: > :r::l::r::snka: > (Switch sides)
    :dp::snkc:
    (Corner)
    :l::snka:, :d::snkb:, :snkb::snkc: > (Dash-in) :l::snka: or :d::snka: (Reset) >
    :d::d::snka:/:snkb: > :snka:,:snkb:,:snkc:,:snka:,:snkb:,:snkc:,:snkc:, :snkb:, :qcf::snkb: (Tons of damage on this. I think he may have the most damaging speed combo in the game.)
    (Corner)
    :uf::snkc:, :l::snka:, :d::snkb:, :hcb::snka:, (low-jump) :uf::snkc:, :l::snka:, :d::snkb:, :snkb::snkc: > (Dash-in)
    :l::snka: or :d::snka: (Reset) >
    :d::d::snka:/:snkb: > :snka:,:snkb:,:snkc:,:snka:,:snkb:,:snkc:,:snkc:, :snkb:, :qcf::snkb:

    EX

    :l::snka: (x2), :d::snka:, :d::snkb: > :r::l::r::snkb: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:
    :l::snkb:, :l::snka: (x2), :d::snka:, :d::snkb: > :r::l::r::snkb: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:
    :d::snkc:, :l::snka: (x2), :d::snka:, :d::snkb: > :r::l::r::snkb: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:

    Gameplay

    Stick to jumping :snkc: for air to air and jump-ins. :snka: is good as well from certain angles. Use :d::snka: for footsies, and :dp::snkc: only to punish air-recoveries or to combo off a ground to air parry.

    After any successful :dp::snkc: or any kind of knockdown where they bounce, dash in and punish their ground recovery with :d::snka: :r::l::r::snka: > :hcb::hcb::snka::snkb:.

    After any successful stick rush combo, end with either :snkc: (whiff) > :r::l::r::snka: or :df::snkb: > :hcb::snkb: (hold), :snkd: (cancels move) for meter.

    Gonna have to do a lot of hit and run with Amano, since he doesn't have a whole lot mix-up wise, but his damage is just monstrous, and that simple :d::snka: combo is the closest thing you have to
    c. MK BS in this game. He's not a priority whore the way Chun' is though. Although his jumping :snkc: stuffs a lot of crap.

    Avoid jumping :snkb: at all costs. The :l::snkb: stuff can be semi-useful since it's slightly delayed but recovers quickly.
    His SDM isn't great either. It comes out way too slowly for it to actually have a chance of hitting anyone.
    His slide is ok on occasion from max range, but it's pretty slow as well.

    If your :d::snka: gets blocked and you don't think they'll jump, link (don't cancel) into his :df::df::snkc:. It's an old SF2 style tick throw trick, but it does work on occasion. Probably too risky against better players though.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 915
    Any special trick to canceling his down A into his dash besides being extremely fast?

    I try to buffer by doing something like forward, down A, back, forward + A, but i always end up with his hcb move.
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • KingbuzzoKingbuzzo Joined: Posts: 152
    a quick word on the ports.

    You're best to get the game for AES or MVS. We've already mentioned the poor sound in dc versions, and the neocd version has terrible loading (unless you use it with the pc emu neogeocdz). Or...mame :p
    have you played KOF 98 today?
  • TizocTizoc Joined: Posts: 11,406
    ^Or get the PS2 port which is merely a copy-paste of the MVS game ;).

    OK, I'm planning on getting back into this game so could u plz help me out with-
    Power Setsuna & Power Kagami plz. Thanks.

    Also I have a rather odd question- What is the family name of each of the cast?
    "You have to be a badass if you ride a giant seahorse." -Grant Morrison on why Aquaman is badass
    "Game Over, Snively. ...Thanks for playing." -Dr. Eggman, Sonic Universe #40
    "I'm stinking of animal blood...As of now I'm a vegetarian. And this is Bat-cow." -Damian Wayne
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Or get the PS2 port which is merely a copy-paste of the MVS game ;).

    Uh, actually the PS2 version is 'worse' than the DC version. Don't bother with any of them. Buy them to support SNKP if you want, but play the emulated version.

    Some of the characters don't have last names (Setsuna isn't even human), but you can find them on gamefaqs or something.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Setsuna

    Power

    :snka: > :qcb::snkb:
    :snka: > :dp::snkb:
    :snka: > :qcf::snka: > :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb:
    :snkc: > :qcb::snkb:
    :snkc: > :dp::snkb:
    :snkc: > :qcf::snka: > :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb:
    :uf::snkb: > :d::snkb: > :qcf::snkb:
    :uf::snkb: > :d::snkb: > :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb:
    :uf::snkb: :r::snkc: > :qcf::snkb: > (Delayed) :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb:
    (Corner) :uf::snkb: :r::snkc: > :dp::snkc:
    (Corner) (Activate armor :hcb::snkc:) :uf::snkb: :r::snkc: > :hcf::snkc: > :qcf::snkb: > (Delayed) :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb:)
    (Corner) (Activate armor :hcb::snkc:) :uf::snkb: :r::snkc: > :hcf::snkc: > :qcf::snkb: > :dp::snkc:)
    (Corner) (Activate super armor :hcb::hcb::snkb:) :uf::snkb:, :r::snkc: >
    :hcf::snkc: (Let them fall for a second once to reset damage counter, then keep doing them) > :qcf::snkb: > :hcb::hcb::snkb:, :d::snka:
    :snkc::snkd: > :snkc:
    :df::snkc: > :snkc: (You can use :df::snkb: for these, but that actually gives your opponent frame advantage when they get up, so you're totally screwed afterwards).

    Speed

    :d::snka: > :qcb::snkb:
    :d::snka: > :dp::snkb:
    :d::snka: > :qcf::snka:
    :d::snkc: > :qcb::snkb:
    :d::snkc: > :dp::snkb:
    :d::snkc: > :qcf::snka:
    :snka:, :d::snka:, :d::snkb: > follow-up of your choice

    EX

    :snka:, :d::snka:, :d::snkb: (cancel off first hit) > :qcf::snka: > :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb:
    :d::snka: > :qcf::snka: > :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb:
    :d::snkc: > :qcf::snka: > :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb:
    (Corner) (Activate speed combo special :d::d::snka:/:snkb:) :snka:, :snkb:, :snkc:, :d::snkc:, :d::snkc:, :r::snkb::snkc: > :qcf::snkb: > (Delayed) :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb:

    Gameplay

    He's best in Power, but he's also surprisingly good in EX.

    First off, never ever use his :df::snkb: on a downed opponent no matter how far away you are. It gives your opponent frame advantage. Hell, the recovery on it is so bad that they can actually :snkb: you when they get up.

    Because he's pretty basic combo-wise on power (most of the corner stuff is just for show), you're basically relying on damage. His :d::snka: is very very quick and long range however, so it's great for throw mix-ups. Keep in mind that his jump :snkb: can be red parried on the second hit, but it's hard, so unless you're being exceedingly predictable with it, you should be ok, and repeated low jump :snkb:'s mixed with :d::snka:'s and throws can be great for pressuring an opponent.

    Learn to gauge distance properly with him, if you start a combo from further back, combo off the first hit of his :d::snkb: because the second will likely miss.

    As far cancelling his :qcf::snka:, you want it to hit the full 2 times before you cancel. Too early or too late and it'll get blocked.

    Use short dash :snka: > :qcb::snkb: and :snka: > :qcf::snka: > :qcf::qcf::snka::snkb: to punish ground recoveries after :qcb::snkb: combos or overhead launches.
    :dp::snka: or :dp::snkc: to punish air recoveries.
    Also, after any successful super hit, activate your armor/super armor (this is the only time it's safe to do this), or if they're almost dead, dash in and
    :snkc:. The armor's good for one hit, and can be good for getting a throw or something in.

    Jump :snka: is his best air to air, and jump :snkc: can be good for long distance poking or air to air from certain angles on occasion.

    Setsuna's main problem on speed is that he has the worst goddamn overhead in the game next to Mukuro and Amano. It has a ton of range, but it's so goddamn slow and it has terrible recovery. You can't even get a reset off it to start his speed combo special in the corner.

    However, because he gets to combo from :d::snka:/:d::snkc: in speed, and because it's got such great range, he's much more versatile in that mode, if a lot more strapped for damage.
    This means that Setsuna is one of the few characters who actually benefits from using EX mode, since he can combo into his DM that way.

    The advantage with EX is that you'll have his super armor, plus his long range :d::snka:/:d::snkc: combos and throw mix-ups which puts the opponent in a nasty spot once your health gets low. Remember you take more damage in EX though, so use the armor to avoid resets rather than big damage. Plus, :d::snka: comes out quick, and if someone sees it, their first instinct is to block low. If you cancel into :qcb::snkb: (which is an overhead), you can catch people offguard quite often.

    The downside is that you don't gain meter half as fast, so your damage potential still drops by quite a bit.

    Also:

    Added Power Hibiki stuff to my post on the first page, and some Power Moriya stuff to his post.
    I already made a post on Kagami on the second page, but I changed some stuff, and I added a bunch of info/EX stuff to it.
    I also have every single character guide linked in the first post now, and I fixed the broken links and edited some of the guides a little.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • TizocTizoc Joined: Posts: 11,406
    ^Thanks for the info gonna save this pae to review it later, though I would like to mention that Setsuna's Crouching C does more damage than Standing C.
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  • Dracula_XDracula_X unblockable Joined: Posts: 915
    One small note: All of the Dm/sdm motions you have listed as:qcb: :db: :r: :snka: :snkb:/:snkb: can be done with just :qcb: :r: :snka: :snkb: /:snkb:

    i dunno how different it is but doing it like that makes it much easier to do thing like combo Hibiki's Dm off of standing :snka: or Kojiroh's supercancel for example
    Time lost can never be retrieved.
  • FullMetalRossFullMetalRoss That Hurt! Liar... Joined: Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    do any of you have vids of any Juzoh matches? I just started picking this game up and I play him. he's prety cool, if you can get down the timing for his follow ups they can be the great equalizer, especially the super after the command grab.
    <<>>
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I did, but I'm not sure if that's one of the videos I lost.
    I do use Juzoh quite frequently, so I can teach you some stuff if we play on kaillera or something.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • FullMetalRossFullMetalRoss That Hurt! Liar... Joined: Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Sadly kailerra sucks for me. I only play on Poporu. You should totally get an account there though. Maybe we can start an LB2 revolution or something. Pop is much better then kailerra. If you do find Juzoh vids it'd be much appreciated if you could put them somewhere I can find them.
    <<>>
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Ah, right, Oregon is about as west coast as it gets, so you probably have some ridiculous ping in GodWeapon.
    If you're really picky about lag, I have a private server we can use (non emu-linker servers are 'much' less picky about ping), or we can try Daroms or another server that's US Central. As long as both of us are under 80ms, it should be ok.
    It's just me showing you shit anyway.

    I'd sign up for Poporu, but I can't be arsed to go find a fake Korean social security number, and it's basically identity theft anyway, so I'd probably rather not.
    It's way too late to get a large scene going for this game anyway. If it wanted to happen, it would've like 5 years ago. It's got a decent niche community at a-cho and a couple other arcades at least, although a-cho hasn't posted videos for like 2 years.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • FullMetalRossFullMetalRoss That Hurt! Liar... Joined: Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I think the lowest ping I got in Godweapon was like 70 but that was one crazy day, the rest of time time I'm sitting at about 100-110 or so.

    But yeah sure I'll reinstall Mame32k (I generally use kawaks for practice cause the input seems less laggy) and you can show me some stuff.

    As for the Korean soc thing, people have been doing that stuff for years just to play Korean only online stuff like back in gunbound days, but I understand were you are coming from, I was lucky and got in on Dandy-J's free set of accounts.
    <<>>
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Zantetsu

    Status

    I believe either the entire character or just his shadow dash slice is banned in most tournaments.

    Stuff unique to him

    :u:/:uf:/:ub: :qcf::snka:/:snkb: (x2) on grounded opponents
    He can air-chain on speed mode.

    Power

    :snka:, :qcb::snkb: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:
    :d::snkc: (x2-3), :snkc:/:snka: > :dp::snkc:
    :uf::snkb: > :d::snkc:, :d::snkc: (do near the end) > :r::l::r::snkc:, :qcb::snka: (to punish any recovery) or jump :qcf::snka:/:snkb: (x2)
    :d::snkc: (x2-3), :snkc:/:snka: > :qcb::snkb: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:
    :d::snkc: (x1-2), :snkc:/:snka: > :qcf::snka: > :uf::snka: > :hcb::snkc:
    :d::snkc: (x2-3), :snkc:/:snka: > :r::l::r::snkc:, :qcb::snka: (This one is brutal. It crosses-up sometimes so even if they block, it can often hit, and it's extremely safe. Better players may deflect it if they see it coming though).
    :d::snkc: (x1-2), :snkc:/:snka: > :qcf::u::snka: (Jump-cancel glitch) > :r::l::r::snkc: > :qcb::snka: > :u::snka: > :hcb::snkc:
    :d::snkc: (x1-2), :snkc:/:snka: > :qcf::u::snka: (Jump-cancel glitch) > :r::l::r::snkc: > :qcb::snka: > (Repeated) :qcf::u::snka: (Jump-cancel glitch) (Switch directions as necessary) (Can be done infinitely, so it may be banned from tourneys)

    Speed

    :d::snkc: (x1-2), :snka:, :r::snkc: > :r::l::r::snkc:, :qcb::snka:
    :d::snkc: (x1-2), :snka:, :db::snka:, :snkb: > :r::l::r::snkc:, :qcb::snka:
    :d::snka: (x2) > :qcf::snka: > :uf::snka: > :hcb::snkc:
    :snka:, :d::snka:, :snkb: > :qcb::snkb:
    :snka:, :d::snka:, :snkb: > :qcf::snka: :uf::snka: > :hcb::snkc:
    :snka:, :d::snka:, :snkb: > :qcf::u::snka: (Jump-cancel) > :r::l::r::snkc:, :qcb::snka: > Follow-up of your choice
    :snka:, :d::snka:, :snkb: > :r::snkc: > :r::l::r::snkc:, :qcb::snka:
    :snka:, :d::snka:, :snkb: > :r::l::r::snkc:, :qcb::snkb:, :qcf::snka: > :uf::snka: > :hcb::snkc:
    :snka:, :d::snka:, :snkb: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb: > (Activate speed combo special)
    :snka:, :d::snka:, :snkb: > :r::l::r::snkc:, :qcb::snkb:, :qcf::u::snka: (Jump-cancel) > :r::l::r::snkc:,
    :qcb::snka: (Follow-up of your choice)
    (Activate speed combo special :d::d::snka:/:snkb:) :snka:, :snkb:, :snkc:, :d::snkc:, :d::snka:, :d::snkc:, :r::snkb::snkc: > (Quickly cancel into) :r::l::r::snkc:, :qcb::snka: (Whiffs/Switches direction) > :u::snka: >
    :hcb::snkc:
    (Activate speed combo special :d::d::snka:/:snkb:) :snka:, :snkb:, :snkc:, :d::snkc:, :d::snka:, :d::snkc:, :r::snkb::snkc: > (Quickly cancel into) :r::l::r::snkc:, :qcb::snka: (Whiffs/Switches direction) > (Repeated)
    :qcf::u::snka: (Jump-cancel) (Switch directions as necessary)

    EX

    :d::snkc: (x2-3), :qcb::snkb: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:
    :d::snka: (x-2), :qcb::snkb: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:
    :d::snkc: (x1-2), :qcf::snka: > :uf::snka: > :hcb::snkc:
    :snka:, :d::snka:, :snkb: > :r::l::r::snkc:, :qcb::snkb:, :qcb::snkb: > :r::hcf::snka::snkb:
    :d::snkc: (x1-2)/:d::snka: (x2), :qcf::u::snka: (Jump-cancel) > :r::l::r::snkc: > :qcb::snka: > :u::snka: >
    :hcb::snkc:
    :d::snkc: (x1-2)/:d::snka: (x2), :qcf::u::snka: (Jump-cancel) > :r::l::r::snkc: > :qcb::snka: > (Repeated)
    :qcf::u::snka: (Jump-cancel) (Switch directions as necessary)

    Gameplay

    Zantetus is best on power, since he has his links and he'll have tons of meter for DM's because using :u: :qcf::snka:/:snkb: (x2) on grounded opponents gives you like 50% meter back. He's good on any mode though.

    Zantetsu's jumping :snka: is godly air to air and can be cancelled into his air throw, his jump :snkc: can be good on occasion from certain angles as well. Utilize his :d::snkc: links to put constant pressure on your opponent, set-up mix-ups and deal damage. Low-jump :snkb: is an awesome cross-up that's extremely easy to space properly. Resist the urge to use his dive kick a lot. It's easily punished

    You can zone from across the entire screen with his dash slice move, and can use it punish whiffs from far far away. You can also use it to punish ground/air recoveries by setting it up so it hits them from behind. This is 'the' move that makes Zantetsu so broken, and along with everything else he has, he's just way too well rounded.

    He gains meter ridiculously fast, does a lot of damage, has a lot of priority in the air, he's quick, and he's got air-chains. Plus, the dash slice comes out almost instantly, knocks down, sets up ambiguous cross-ups and has almost no recovery. It can be air deflected or punished with a jump-in if you get too predictable with it though.

    The first part of his DM stuns the opponent. However, just like Lee's, they programmed the stun the same way they did dizzies, so what you can do is actually mash out of the first part of his DM and block the second if you're fast enough. This is a blessing for other characters, since it seriously cuts down on his damage potential.

    His :dp::snkc: is useless. It has god awful start-up/recovery so never ever use it. If you have to anti-air, use :uf::snka: or :qcf::snka: instead.
    Again, his :snka::snkc: glitch is banned from any and every tournament. Can't even use it once, because it totally breaks his high/low game. He doesn't need it anyway.

    One word of caution, never roll towards Zantetsu on wake-up. He's like Lee where he's got a 50-50 high/low mix-up. He can either low-jump :snka: > Dive kick or :d::snkc: into the rest of his chain.

    And if you're fighting him, be careful of jumping towards him since his :snka: has ridiculous priority, and his dash slice can easily cross you up in the air. Play defensively and jump straight up to counter his jump :snka:. The dash slice is punishable if you block it, but you gotta be fast.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • KeNpunch12KeNpunch12 Joined: Posts: 244
    Thanks for the Zantetsu strat! too bad i have no one to play it with..... and watch them so i can learn... oh well. I guess that makes it just more fun to learn because i can learn all by myself. ^_^
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  • ADVIIIADVIII ParryFiend Joined: Posts: 320
    does everybody know the button layout for the jap version of ps2 of the lastblade collection?
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