Official SRK SFxT Balance Discussion Thread

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  • SteelgutteySteelguttey MoThErFuCkEr Joined: Posts: 729
    What do you guys think of pacman?
    XBL: Steelguttey
    UMVC3: Main: Amaterasu (Cold Star), Frank West (Shopping Cart), Dante (Jam Session)
  • Ketsueki_WolfKetsueki_Wolf Casual Gaymer Joined: Posts: 224
    While I won't get SFxT until tomorrow, I have the guide and looking through it, Jin's Power Stance worries me. It can absorb any attack including projectiles and special moves in the moves' active frames and on top of that, he can cancel into any special move at any time during power stance. So Jin could activate Power Stance to absorb some hits and counter attack with any special attack, possibly going into a full combo. Could anyone confirm for me that this Power Stance cannot absorb grabs? Either way, Power Stance MIGHT need a nerf depending on how powerful it is at tournaments.
    What do you guys think of pacman?
    No one on PS3 will really know until next week when him and Megaman come out on the PSN Store.
    PSN: Ketsueki_Wolf
    SFIV: Vega. BlazBlue: Amane, Valkenhayn. Injustice: Arrow, Bane, Lobo. Mortal Kombat: Shang Tsung, Reptile.
    Tekken: Dragunov, King, Lei Wulong. SCV: Mitsurugi, Yoshimitsu, Raphael
  • OsbjornOsbjorn Please accept this gift from my people Joined: Posts: 411
    After spending a day with him in light of what i have learned and am in the process of learning I think that Paul has a lot of potential.
    He has problems that is going to stunt him in some match ups but overall he has a whole bunch of things going to him that I feel can give him the advantage.
    Sagat is in my mind very solid Increased emphasis on zoning and improvement of certain tools have made him a better character than he is SSF4 2012.
    Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3: Viper/dante/strider viper/frank west/dante magneto/frank west dante
    Sfxt: Paul, Law, Bob, Guy, Heihachi, Ken
    Skullgirls: parasoul
  • Jon SlaytonJon Slayton Consistently Inconsistent Joined: Posts: 4,296
    From playing this for a bit, I feel like you might actually have point characters and anchor characters in this game. Some characters get opening / build meter better, and others that seem to have trouble getting in have a lot of good options for combos from launcher, launcher cancel, etc etc. IE: Yoshi seems kind of bad but when you think about some of his moves in regard to tag canceling, he's pretty crazy.

    Right now I'm playing Poison on point and Raven for the combos once she gets in, or to help in her bad matchups. Poison seems great though. Lots of awesome tools.
    "You know that sinking feeling when Zero hits you?" - MTP

    You can only be as good as those you copy, those who you seek to emulate. If you want to be great then be yourself.
  • Dime_xDime_x master theorist Joined: Posts: 4,936 ✭✭
    should we make a gem thread? i dont see any thread that pertains specifically to gems and what they do/activation conditions how long they last/what there stat bonuses are.


    -dime
    Skullgirls: Painwheel/double & Peacock/x/painwheel. SSF4 AE 2012: Ibuki
    ST: Dee Jay,Vega,Ryu,Zangief,Boxer,Chun,Guile,Sagat
    If you're offended by your own playstyle that doesnt make sense -Pali
    -Dime_x
  • d3vd3v #MAXCPM Fiber Override Joined: Posts: 24,246 mod
    Anyone else try UltraDavid's Guile/'Gief team with autoblock gems on 'Gief?
    Follow me on Twitter @D3Vlicious

    "Because I Really like to get my weather reports from SRK's D3v""
    -KR|PromilKid

  • TheBlackHombreTheBlackHombre Aesthetic Joined: Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭
    Either way, Power Stance MIGHT need a nerf depending on how powerful it is at tournaments.

    the game isn't even on day 2 yet. lets let the game age like a bottle of fine wine.
  • Ketsueki_WolfKetsueki_Wolf Casual Gaymer Joined: Posts: 224
    the game isn't even on day 2 yet. lets let the game age like a bottle of fine wine.
    Hence why I underlined and bolded "MIGHT".
    PSN: Ketsueki_Wolf
    SFIV: Vega. BlazBlue: Amane, Valkenhayn. Injustice: Arrow, Bane, Lobo. Mortal Kombat: Shang Tsung, Reptile.
    Tekken: Dragunov, King, Lei Wulong. SCV: Mitsurugi, Yoshimitsu, Raphael
  • strizzmatikstrizzmatik Brick = Shat Joined: Posts: 255
    I find Heihachi to be overwhelmingly good on Day 1. He's got like 4-5 ways to launch + combo you, has easy 50% meterless combos without tag, solid links and mixups with f+Jab, Strong, b+Short... EX WGF is godlike... his counter stops damn near everything AND starts combos on EX... Super is hella fast, crazy range and easy to combo/punish with. His walk speed is obviously terrible (somewhat remedied with a speed gem loadout) but he eats fireballers alive with his WGF/TGF/Demon's Breath/Palm Dash and has a super-solid rushdown. May be too early to tell but he's top-tier for sure IMHO.
  • Brandon JoaBrandon Joa Joined: Posts: 15
    All I know is supering a guy with 30% reduction is quite noticeable than a guy with 10%
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,320 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Weske...I mean Rolento is looking good.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • AceKillahAceKillah EXS of Greed Joined: Posts: 15,367 ✭✭✭✭
    Rolento is a dick.
    Took the litmus paper test, said I'm based.
  • Dime_xDime_x master theorist Joined: Posts: 4,936 ✭✭
    Rolento is a dick.


    ace and i on that rolento hate bandwagon/salty tear fest EARLY. at this point i see this game as diveided into 3 camps:

    those that like the game: rolento/vega/rufus users

    those that dont like the game/ are wary of it:

    people playing against rolento/vega/rufus users

    people that like the game alot and think its AWESOME! : people that play tekken teams against each other.

    -dime
    Skullgirls: Painwheel/double & Peacock/x/painwheel. SSF4 AE 2012: Ibuki
    ST: Dee Jay,Vega,Ryu,Zangief,Boxer,Chun,Guile,Sagat
    If you're offended by your own playstyle that doesnt make sense -Pali
    -Dime_x
  • strizzmatikstrizzmatik Brick = Shat Joined: Posts: 255
    He's cheap as shit from what I've seen. Damage potential, safe Rekkas, pogo crossups on wakeup... super annoying
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,320 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If I do play this game for 5 minutes I got my team. Rolento/Ibuki. Somebody fun and somebody to just be like "well fuck...at least I got him"
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • TheBlackHombreTheBlackHombre Aesthetic Joined: Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭
    He's cheap as shit from what I've seen. Damage potential, safe Rekkas, pogo crossups on wakeup... super annoying
    rush down, mix up character. i like it.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭✭
    paul phoenix with 40% damage reduction gogogogogogogo.
    broken ass cancellable frames on forward + fierce. hit confirm into phoenix punch or EX for further combo/super gogogogogo.

    he probably sucks but i like him. paul phoenix wins OOORA!
    Play more.
  • Nini HeartNini Heart Red Pill Joined: Posts: 6,609
    First impressions, this is still a heavily footsie oriented game. Tekken characters seem to have their work cut out for them. Some of them look like they're gonna have a really hard time getting around fireball zoning and pressure in general since they don't have DPs. I played Lili/Asuka for a bit, no defensive options really hurts. Raven is REALLY good though
    Moves that go through fireballs are not as good as in SF4 since most fireballs can be feinted and cancelled into invincible backdashes into anti airs.or to knock you out of the move you do to go through a fireball.

    Played lots of Poison and Cammy.

    Poison looks pretty good at this point. Her EX jaguar kick is the best anti fireball tool I seen in a while. Tracks, fully projectile invincible, very fast, + on block and does huge damage with the grab follow up. Did I mention that it hits overhead? Can probably do a regular combo for more damage and meter gain instead of the grab follow up, but I didn't really try it. Jaguar kick is also amazing for pressure since it's plus when done at the right distance and can go through fireballs when properly timed.

    Rekkas reminded me of Fei Long, seemed to be plus or -1 at worst on the first hit depending on distance and the version. Very good for keeping pressure and going for tick throws/DP setups.

    Fireball game is decent, LP fireball is pretty fast and has decent recovery. Fireball blockstrings seem to leave you at + frames.

    Normals are decent, only gripe is with her jumping normals. Her jump ins are pretty subpar besides J.LK which crosses up ambigously and leads to full combos.
    Cr.M has a lot of range. It happened a lot that I would poke with a max or near max range cr.m and whiff the follow up rekka.
    Cr.hp is a good anti air and leads to Jaguar Kick+grab juggle on counter hit. Even on non counter hit though, you can c.HP>Jaguar kick and get a meaty jaguar kick that leaves you at toooons of + frames
    Her overhead is like Viper's in SF4, avoids a lot of fireballs and lows. Haven't been able to get a combo off it yet but I haven't hit the lab

    DP is really nice, it beats crossups since it hits on both sides.

    Damage off regular confirms seems average/below average but I was still in the SF4 mindset of hitconfirming jab jab cr.mk>rekka. Has some cool stuff with EX rekka and ex fireballs in corner

    I love this character, she's so well rounded, she doesn't seem to have any glaring flaws

    Cammy is weird. She got her TK divekick back so I should be happier, but the hitstun is so weird and it looks like they added a TON of recovery to it. Felt as if it was -1 or 0 on block, but extremely low TKCS seemed to combo a bit better and give better frame advantage Comboing off the regular divekick on a standing opponent was extremely hard but worked fine on crouchers. EX TKCS is still good and leaves you at ton of +frames but the divekicks are a lot slower than in AE and still give you significantly less frame advantage than in SF.

    Her close roundhouse can be jump cancelled on hit or on block into Cannon Strike for more pressure, nice little buff. Overall felt the same as in SF4, just a tad slower and some links weren't working, like standing MP>cr.MP. Was hoping they would buff spin knuckle but no dice, only thing they added is some green power on her hand ala gief.

    Raven looks really scary, thank god he doesn't have a DP. His high low teleport kick is unreactable. His TK'd ninja star allows him to recover and teleport behind you, he can also choose to lame you out by chucking ninja stars, and you can't lame him out since he has a freaking teleport. Damage is good, he rapes pretty hard in the corner with infinite EX ninja stars juggles

    Akuma looks better than in SF4 somehow, go figure. Air fireball runaway seems to shut down a lot of the cast, still has really good mixups, and damage out of his ass.

    DPs in this game are silly. You can DP safely as long as you have one bar, I don't really like that. Doesn't help that some DPs like Cammy's on hit lead to a good chunk of your life if the partner is tagged in. They're also the safest way to tag in and out. Good thing is they don't have TOO much invincibilty, I've seen a LOT of jumpins trade with DPs so far(all in the DPers favor, he was then free to combo into lotsa damage).

    Wish I had the game instead of having to play at a friend's house, game looks so fun.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
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  • AceKillahAceKillah EXS of Greed Joined: Posts: 15,367 ✭✭✭✭
    Supa fun time

    Yo I was saying the same thing. "Yo this game is fun as hell I like this" wait till you fight Rolento. :shake:
    Took the litmus paper test, said I'm based.
  • Shodokan123Shodokan123 3s 4 Life Joined: Posts: 3,385 ✭✭
    This game is more fun in training mode than online... no sound makes it feel like you aren't playing anything at all.

    Also kinda wishing this game had an EX tag in option while you are blocking/almost dead like tekken tag 2.
    Stupid games...
  • JarekovJarekov Thou Art A Bear Joined: Posts: 1,995
    Rolento is pretty bad, stupid ass walk forward jabs and safe rekka pressure, pogo stick shenanigans are annoying as all hell.

    Hugo should actually be pretty decent in this, if you have him in the 2 spot. He needs meter to deal with the guys like rolento, without his counter he basically has to get a lucky. The reason I think he will be mid tier is his damage is amazing, even on tag ins he is doing some work, his damage is just good in general. His footsie game is decent just because of cr. lk cr .mk being a knockdown and no one is going to roll towards hugo. the cr. lk to cr. mk combo beats out a ton of pokes and makes it very hard to just walk in on hugo, so most people have to jump which is in hugos favor.

    He has some match ups that are bad though. Akuma is bad, but if you can catch him you can kill him with one touch and one proper guess so its not free for akuma by any means. 6-4 akuma I think.

    Rolento can absolutely wreck your shit because of how fucking slow Hugos command grab is, if it were a frame faster this matchup would be so much more manageable. Hugo basically need meter to counter otherwise rolento gets to walk all over him. Probably going to be 7-3 for rolento.

    I really only have good time spent with these two match ups, I got 6 hours of straight matchup experience of my team of ogre/hugo against Rolento/Akuma, I actually think ogre will have even to favorable match ups against rolento/akuma.

    Ogre is a monster, great damage, builds meter very well, all around good character for people who like grapplers since his normals will feel clunky to those who play shotos only. Dat bubble and burning kick got all the AA options you could need, burning kick on ch is a dirty thing.
  • Swedish ChefSwedish Chef STEEL THY BUTT! Joined: Posts: 6,189 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If Akuma turns out to be anything below high/top tier in this game then I will eat my own shoe.
    TAKING YOU PUNKS DOWN!!!
    ^Bubbleberry_VII you are so godlike for making this.
  • AcidGlowAcidGlow ~Misogi~ Joined: Posts: 400 ✭✭
    Jumping UF and UB seems to not register aswell for me compared to SF4.. alot of times I get Up neutral when I wanna advance in jumping.. X_X
  • JampJamp Toxic Beauty Joined: Posts: 7,387 mod
    Weske...I mean Rolento is looking good.
    I though Kazuya was more "Wesker-like" at least on day one. First thing I'm gonna do when some decent DLC colors pop up is to turn him into Albert Mishima.

    But yeah, Rolento is damn scary.
    "Hey man if I lose to it, I'm pretty sure that makes it braindead." - AceKillah
  • WestloWestlo Joined: Posts: 1,673
    DPs in this game are silly. You can DP safely as long as you have one bar, I don't really like that.

    Dps are not safe apart from maybe stuff like Ken's EX DP.
    SSFIV AE - Cammy/Ken
  • Swedish ChefSwedish Chef STEEL THY BUTT! Joined: Posts: 6,189 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dps are not safe apart from maybe stuff like Ken's EX DP.
    Tag cancelling a character's SRK into a backdash should be safe for the most part, due to there not being enough frame disadvantage to punish it with a long enough range move.
    TAKING YOU PUNKS DOWN!!!
    ^Bubbleberry_VII you are so godlike for making this.
  • farplanerfarplaner Joined: Posts: 623
    If you were to rank the female characters in the game, how would you rank them?
  • entrerixentrerix legendary buster wolf Joined: Posts: 1,169
    If you were to rank the female characters in the game, how would you rank them?

    its day 2, this question is complete nonsense
    mains: Al Rashid, Zarak, Vertigo, MidKnight
    alts: Ragnar Bloodaxe, Korr, Talon, R.A.X.
  • farplanerfarplaner Joined: Posts: 623
    Sorry, I guess rank is the wrong word. What I meant is, do they seem good or bad?
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭✭
    they also seem good? the cast isnt exactly divided into male and female usually as a rating of 'good'ness.
    Play more.
  • bguilebguile Joined: Posts: 254
    While I won't get SFxT until tomorrow, I have the guide and looking through it, Jin's Power Stance worries me. It can absorb any attack including projectiles and special moves in the moves' active frames and on top of that, he can cancel into any special move at any time during power stance. So Jin could activate Power Stance to absorb some hits and counter attack with any special attack, possibly going into a full combo. Could anyone confirm for me that this Power Stance cannot absorb grabs? Either way, Power Stance MIGHT need a nerf depending on how powerful it is at tournaments.


    No one on PS3 will really know until next week when him and Megaman come out on the PSN Store.

    You dont even have the game yet; you aren't sure how Power Stance even works, but you think Power Stance might need to be nerfed? Seriously? This is the reason so many characters get nerfed before they even get strong. I hope someone buffs your brain.
  • CriminalUpperCriminalUpper Still loves football Joined: Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭✭
    No complaints about Raven yet? Has all the makings of a cheap character. Teleport + projectile 50/50s, decent anti-airs, j.HK, high damage possibilities and combos out of anything like Heihachi. I'd guess he's underplayed like in Tekken though. All the better
  • Ketsueki_WolfKetsueki_Wolf Casual Gaymer Joined: Posts: 224
    You dont even have the game yet; you aren't sure how Power Stance even works, but you think Power Stance might need to be nerfed? Seriously? This is the reason so many characters get nerfed before they even get strong. I hope someone buffs your brain.
    Oh for the love of... Did you miss the part where I mentioned that I have the Guide, mentioned what Power Stance can do, asked if grabs can beat it and also bolded and underlined MIGHT?? Also, did you miss the people that are already saying how powerful Raven, Heihachi, and Rolento are? And you're complaining about me saying how one move MIGHT need to be nerfed depending how it does in tournaments? I'm not saying it needs to be nerfed, I'm saying it might need to be nerfed, there is a huge difference.
    PSN: Ketsueki_Wolf
    SFIV: Vega. BlazBlue: Amane, Valkenhayn. Injustice: Arrow, Bane, Lobo. Mortal Kombat: Shang Tsung, Reptile.
    Tekken: Dragunov, King, Lei Wulong. SCV: Mitsurugi, Yoshimitsu, Raphael
  • cjaycrcjaycr Joined: Posts: 992 ✭✭
    Juri seems to have adapted quite well to this engine. Seems to have a lot of super confirms and they all hurt. Right now I'm going to try a battery/user archetype with Akuma and Juri, but the roles might switch. They both can do pretty decent damage without bar so it remains to be seen who actually is the meter hog.

    IIRC grabs beat power stance. Does it cancel into anything besides mental alertness? Can't that be thrown too?
    Invisibility Frames.
  • FreddyL0c0FreddyL0c0 Joined: Posts: 1,717
    everybody needs to relax, and discover stuff.
    Spencer Dante Hawkeye aka raw tags are the future
    http://www.youtube.com/user/freddyl0c0 (more soon)
  • CharlieKunCharlieKun Joined: Posts: 52
    I'll add my thoughts on the game.

    So far it feels quite messy in that I'm not sure as to what the nature/core of the game is supposed to be. Street Fighter 4 has an emphasis on spacing, zoning and being patient and because of that, the game has a nice pace, in my opinion.

    With X Tekken, I'm not sure how I am supposed to play. It's an odd amalgamation of many fighting game mechanics which (when adding gems to the mix) creates a messy frantic experience for me. I make a rush down orientated team but then it's hard to get in when up against zoning focused builds. I make a zoning team and then it's hard to keep out rush down characters. I don't know. I guess when it's put like that then it should be a great thing. It means the game plays to both preferences but so far, the experiences just feels a bit inconsistent. I'll make a good read and use this move that looks like it was made to punish this certain thing, but then that move gets beat out when my opponent does this random move that doesn't feel like it should be able to snuff what I just did.

    For example, I am currently running Paul & Asuka. The properties of Paul's normals and EX moves don't make any sense. Why give a character Dudleys "Short Swing Blow" but not give it any invincibility at all? Not even 1 frame. It looses to jump in attacks of any strength and throws. Even the EX version gets stuffed by jabs and shorts. In general, from what I have experienced; normals that look and feel like they should be good anti-airs tend to fail completely and get stuffed by or trade with other normals that don't even look like they should even reach you before your move did.

    I've played around with a good amount of the cast (mainly the tekken characters) and I definitely feel that this is a game that shows why we need to be allowed to see hitboxes in training mode. We really do need it. Maybe not so much in something like SF4 but in this I think we do. I can't be sitting in training mode and saying "this punch looks like it should be a good poke" but then end up scratching my head when it get's blown up by the weirdest things. In a game that has so many characters and more to come, I say bring on hitboxes and maybe even in-game frame data. I don't see the "magic of discovery" in letting the community discover it, especially when not knowing (at least right now) makes the game feel a bit inconsistent.

    Anyway, as for balance in general, if you didn't guess from my rant above, then yes I do think it's a bit of a shambles at the moment. Rolento, Hugo, Vega and Heihachi are who I have been getting a real ass whooping from so far.

    TL : DR - In a nutshell, my main gripe is that the properties (i.e hitboxes, recovery, hitstun, blockstun, etc) of normals, specials and EX's feel like they were not all thought out properly.
  • OmniCloudOmniCloud Peacemaker Protégé Joined: Posts: 521
    so there's no consensus on if this game will be the new SF4 or not? Is is a good mixture of rushdown and footsies/defensive, or still too early and everything feels random?

    hitbox issues will likely be sorted out with practice I think @ poster above...but tks for that reply, very informative.
    "Every man must be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath"
  • TenguEggTenguEgg Joined: Posts: 1,145
    Personally I don't think this game is very rushdown heavy, and it won't be for awhile until people start mastering the Tekken characters. People trying to rush in and go for fancy combos are going to get wrecked and opened up all day by any character with good footsies and a decent anti air/way to deal with jump ins.

    Not to mention, with meter build gems+auto block gems ( shoutouts to UltraDavid ), the gimmicky overheads many of the new characters are packing are not getting much mileage, although that will probably be remedied by TOs banning gems. I think online play will be very different from Tournament play if that goes into effect.
  • OmniCloudOmniCloud Peacemaker Protégé Joined: Posts: 521
    My personal preference is to play without gems tbh, nothing against new strategies, but the game just looks cheesy and exaggerated with them on, characters glowing green and red...unghh...gives me a headache.
    "Every man must be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath"
  • CougarCougar Logic, yo. Joined: Posts: 1,528
    snip

    While I agree with most of what you are saying, I'm noticing quite the opposite as far as who's losing. I haven't played online much so I'm just going by what I'm reading and what I see in the lab, but... From what I can see, Rolento is great, Hugo is good, Vega is meh so I agree, and Heihachi is so good that I'm maining him until someone finds a counter. Dat J.H has the most crossup range I've ever seen in any game, and leads into a basic combo that lasts forever, is easy with only one tough link, and packs quite a punch. I love this character.
    [ Magneto | Nova | Sentinel ]
    UMvC3: [Strange/Haggar/Arthur] Low tier heroes, represent!
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  • AlixAlix Joined: Posts: 51
    Considering how good some of the high low mix ups are from the tekken characters the damage in this game is way too high. When people maximize the damage on their combos, the game is going to boil down to land one combo for 50% and then do one more 50/50 and if you guess right you win. I guess there's a tech roll, but I still feel like there needs to be a combo breaker or something to stop the game from getting dumbed down to this level.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭✭
    The properties of Paul's normals and EX moves don't make any sense. Why give a character Dudleys "Short Swing Blow" but not give it any invincibility at all? Not even 1 frame. It looses to jump in attacks of any strength and throws. Even the EX version gets stuffed by jabs and shorts. In general, from what I have experienced; normals that look and feel like they should be good anti-airs tend to fail completely and get stuffed by or trade with other normals that don't even look like they should even reach you before your move did.

    it's used like how dudley uses it in 3S. it's a very specific use special for punishing people for not respecting your mixup game. i keep throwing you when i get close, or i keep throwing you on wakeup. now you're concerned about throw. thinking about throw you see me walk up after a blocked jab and hit throw to tech, instead i use swing blow dodging the throw and hitting you with a cancellable move (in 3S).

    in this case paul's ex wall bounces which is ridiculously good.

    invincibility is unneeded for the purpose of that move. i dont know what its like in sf4 because i dont play sf4. in 3s it has no invincibility. i think ex version has maybe a single frame of invincibility on startup.
    Play more.
  • d3vd3v #MAXCPM Fiber Override Joined: Posts: 24,246 mod
    Sorry, I guess rank is the wrong word. What I meant is, do they seem good or bad?
    It's day 2, we won't be able to tell for about 120 more days.
    Follow me on Twitter @D3Vlicious

    "Because I Really like to get my weather reports from SRK's D3v""
    -KR|PromilKid

  • Nini HeartNini Heart Red Pill Joined: Posts: 6,609
    Considering how good some of the high low mix ups are from the tekken characters the damage in this game is way too high. When people maximize the damage on their combos, the game is going to boil down to land one combo for 50% and then do one more 50/50 and if you guess right you win. I guess there's a tech roll, but I still feel like there needs to be a combo breaker or something to stop the game from getting dumbed down to this level.

    The combo system in this game is not something that allows the maximizing of damage you speak off. Shit scales way too harshly for consistent 50% combos off regular confirms to be found. I can safely assume that what you predict is not gonna happen.

    50% combos right now already exist off optimal situations like J.Hs or a character stacked with meter. Regular hit confirm combos are doing around 20-30% on ONE character even with tag cancels because of the abysmal damage scaling. You have 2 characters so you can always switch in if one is bleeding. Rolling is pretty much a free escape knockdown mixup with zero downside to it, so landing a combo into a 50/50 mixup pretty much doesn't exist in this game.

    I'm more worried that the game is not gonna be favoring offense.

    Also, the invincibility frames on DPs are hella weird. Some DPs have NO invincibility at all even on EX version(stay free ibuki) and others seem to have specific body part invulnerability. I was messing around in T mode today, I would get counterhit out of a DP by deep jumpins like Ken jumping fierce but then I could dp meaty setups for free(tested with Cammy and Poison)
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  • Dime_xDime_x master theorist Joined: Posts: 4,936 ✭✭
    .

    I'm more worried that the game is not gonna be favoring offense.


    yeah, im pretty sure this game will become even more turtly than sf4 unless command dashes start to take over. AA normals are very good and its generally hard to walk around the screen, plus dashes are on the slower end while pokes are still amazing. basically people arent going to want to dash into pokes... so this game i fear will be very turtly.

    when will capcom learn that its hard to have an offensive game when you have godlike pokes and AA's coupled with slow walkspeed and dashes.


    -dime
    Skullgirls: Painwheel/double & Peacock/x/painwheel. SSF4 AE 2012: Ibuki
    ST: Dee Jay,Vega,Ryu,Zangief,Boxer,Chun,Guile,Sagat
    If you're offended by your own playstyle that doesnt make sense -Pali
    -Dime_x
  • Nini HeartNini Heart Red Pill Joined: Posts: 6,609
    Don't forget that fireballs can be faked and dash cancelled, so even punishing a seemingly poorly spaced fireball becomse a gamble. If he dash cancels into a anti air juggle, you're looking at 30-60% of your health gone depending on meter. I dont understand why defensive options such as anti airing and DP tag out get such a HUGE reward
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  • AlixAlix Joined: Posts: 51
    The combo system in this game is not something that allows the maximizing of damage you speak off. Shit scales way too harshly for consistent 50% combos off regular confirms to be found. I can safely assume that what you predict is not gonna happen.
    50% combos right now already exist off optimal situations like J.Hs or a character stacked with meter. Regular hit confirm combos are doing around 20-30% on ONE character even with tag cancels because of the abysmal damage scaling.
    Your 20%- 30% isn't true at all. I haven't even hardly played this game much yet and I've found an easy meterless 35% off of Nina's cr. mk as well as with Asuka. I've seen 50% already taken off with overheads using one bar tag cancels and I'm sure someone has probably already found similar damage off of lows. 3 months from now when people maximize everything and discover more I'd be willing to be the damage is going to be stupid high. I think it would be a bit naive to think that the damage is going to stay were it is, and it's already pretty high.
    You have 2 characters so you can always switch in if one is bleeding.
    You can't just always switch. If you're knocked down you have to play defense and switch later.
    Rolling is pretty much a free escape knockdown mixup with zero downside to it, so landing a combo into a 50/50 mixup pretty much doesn't exist in this game.
    Rolling helps the problem a lot, but it's not free, that's a poor way of looking at it. It just expands our defensive options after a knockdown, because someone can always read the roll and continue pressure on you. If the roll didn't exist this game would be retarded.
  • Nini HeartNini Heart Red Pill Joined: Posts: 6,609
    Your 20%- 30% isn't true at all. I haven't even hardly played this game much yet and I've found an easy meterless 35% off of Nina's cr. mk. I've seen 50% already taken off with overheads using one bar tag cancels and I'm sure someone has probably already found similar damage off of lows. 3 months from now when people maximize everything and discover more I'd be willing to be the damage is going to be stupid high. I think it would be a bit naive to think that the damage is going to stay were it is, and it's already pretty high.

    You can't just always switch. If you're knocked down you have to play defense and switch later.

    Rolling helps the problem a lot, but it's not free, that's a poor way of looking at it. It just expands our defensive options after a knockdown, because someone can always read the roll and continue pressure on you. If the roll didn't exist this game would be retarded.

    Now, try jab jab cr.MK and see how much damage that 35% now does. That is what I mean by regular confirms.

    It's pretty obvious that the damage isn't going to get much higher than what it is so far because the scaling system is the SAME as SF4. Aka, combos do shit damage the longer they go. Outside of situations like jumpins where you can get 40-50% for one bar or relatively impractical stuff like getting a counterhit crumple or starting a combo with a fierce , the damage is not gonna be really high unless you're stocked with meters. Just hitconfirming rapes the scaling really hard.

    There are tons of way to switch out even if you're knocked down or pressured. DP>Tag cancel works even if you're knocked down as long as they block the dp at least.

    Rolling is pretty free. There is no recovery to it at all. You can roll>DP someone who successfully anticipated your roll direction for example and tried a meaty setup. There is literally NO downside to rolling. If the roll didn't exist or wasn't as safe, offense would be stronger as you would actually be rewarded for scoring a knockdown.

    I don't mind rolls when you can do something about them like in Blazblue. Rolls have some invincibility but it runs out and you can be picked up into a combo. Rolling backwards midscreen is generally safe but you're putting yourself in the corner. Rolling in the corner is a ballsy move as if they mistime their oki, you can get out, and have them cornered, but more often than not, you will get comboed for trying to roll out of the corner instead of taking the mixup

    In this game, scoring a knockdown doesn't mean shit, and I don't see how the game would be retarded without rolls. Especially considering this game has invincible backdashes.
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  • AlixAlix Joined: Posts: 51
    Now, try jab jab cr.MK and see how much damage that 35% now does. That is what I mean by regular confirms.
    I add a mp or two to the Nina combo for the hit confirm and it does about the same. Ryu like a lot of other characters do 40% with one bar off of basic hit confirms. I'm not going to sit here and argue examples considering If you've watched any recent footage at all there are plenty of characters doing big meterless combos for big damage or spending one bar for really big damage.
    In this game, scoring a knockdown doesn't mean shit, and I don't see how the game would be retarded without rolls. Especially considering this game has invincible backdashes.
    Because it's usually quite easy to OS the backdash for another knockdown to put them right back into the same mix up.
  • Dime_xDime_x master theorist Joined: Posts: 4,936 ✭✭
    Don't forget that fireballs can be faked and dash cancelled, so even punishing a seemingly poorly spaced fireball becomse a gamble. If he dash cancels into a anti air juggle, you're looking at 30-60% of your health gone depending on meter. I dont understand why defensive options such as anti airing and DP tag out get such a HUGE reward


    well, to correct a few of your assumptions, dp tag isnt safe for many characters... there isnt enough blockstun (unless your using akumas 3 hit slow as hell when blocked dp) also not all fireballs are chargeable. im sure there are a couple.. but the only character that i know that has it is ryu... akuma cant charge his fireball cause his charge move is demon flip) funnily enough though the charge on akumas demonflip looks EXACTLY like the startup animation for his red fireballs... hella mindgames there.


    however you are correct in that people quoting these high numbers on combos are using impractical/punish starters for the most part.
    i mean in sf4 and even in marvel, most of the combos start from the ground and in those cases you HAVE to jab hitconfirm/ chain hitconfirm, chains on this game are unsafe on block though so you have to jab,jab hitconfirm and that RAPES the damage scaling, as you have said.


    now on to what i think about gems because im bored:

    generally in rts game and mobas and in fighting games as well, "stacking synergy" is the best synergy and the easiest and most obvious. stacking synergy is putting hp items o tanks and damage items on assassins... ie assassins usually hit really hard and fast so putting damage on them makes more sense in general than say, stacking them with armor.

    sfxt imho plays the same way and because of that heres who i think should have what boost gems:

    hp characters like hugo should have powerup and defense gems. idk if anyones played against a hugo and gief team yet that went those gems... but its ridic, they can block with there faces, raw tag damn near for free while there partner heals then do it again... its dumb.

    characters that should use power gems are the characters that have THE MOST non metered damage and also on characters that do most of there damage via random pokes. power gems on these characters are good.

    pixies/rushdown characters should have meter gems, because meter increases there damage substantially and because power gems DONT. also because a pixie should probably be backed up by a tank who who doesnt get raped by damage scaling and can followup the pixies starters with good damage while allowing mister pixie to heal. also the tank can take punishment in the form of punished tags better than any pixie in the second slot... you dont want a 900 hp pixie taking punish damage.

    imho speed gems are a waste, they could be good on tanks but they wont imho be good on pixies, one reason is because speed gems dont speed up actual frame data unlike XF and wolverines boost in marvel, they only increase movement speed. which i assume is walking and jumping. speed gems MAY be good on characters with the fastest jumps in the game... ie rufus will probably be a good speed gem user cause of his dive kick. speed gems also decrease damage many times and so they hurt poor little pixie damage even more. speed gems seem to be the worst on this game imho.

    oh yeah, one more thing, i think when capcom said they "balanced" this game based on the gem system i think its a load of bs.... balanced 50 characters who are teams of 2 and can stock 6 different gems of which there hundreds? yeah right. there are probably MILLIONS of variations. cant balance that shit. however what i think they WANTED was for players to counter gems activation conditions and for that to permeate the metagame. also its another reason why i think the game is turtly... they want people to be able to take there time and be able to set up strategies to get there gems to activate.


    -dime
    Skullgirls: Painwheel/double & Peacock/x/painwheel. SSF4 AE 2012: Ibuki
    ST: Dee Jay,Vega,Ryu,Zangief,Boxer,Chun,Guile,Sagat
    If you're offended by your own playstyle that doesnt make sense -Pali
    -Dime_x
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