Super Turbo Safe Jump Illustrated

papasipapasi N Ken is the truthJoined: Posts: 1,568
The ability to safe jump consistently is what separates the pros and the beginners.

Djfrijoles taught me to safe jump with shoto by watching for the second bounce after a srk. It is a great visual hint and help me safe jump successfully > 50% of the time with shoto (some characters allow greater margins of error like rog/guile vs shoto/sagat).

So I created this guide to illustrate how to safe jump with every character.

http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/st-safejump/

disclaimer:

* it will not make you a pro overnight, you still have to practice just like everything else (combos).

* this is using frame advance and does not take into account your reaction time, playing online with input lag, etc. so put some extra buffer for your scenario

* there might be wrong assumption in this tool. constructive criticism welcome.

Margin of errors when safe jumping various characters

Ryu
SRK 4 frames

Ken
Jab/Strong SRK 2 frames
Fierce SRK cannot be safe jump

Honda
Fierce Headbutt - 5 frames
Buttdrop has a lot of invincibility so it might catch whatever normals you pressed after the safe jump.

Chun
RH up kick - 2 frames. Her up kick hitbox sucks so if you know your normals and distance it can be beat.

Blanka
Balls hit on first frame but can be neutralized with the correct jumping normals

Zangief
Lariat hits on 2nd frame, but the 1st frame has vulnerable hurtbox, so use a correct jumping normal as meaty and gief has to think twice before going for lariat

Guile
Flash Kick & Super - 5 frames, very beginner friendly for practicing your safe jump timing.

Sim
Reversal teleport - usually punishable
Sliding short or back jab - 3 frames start up, so if your safe jump timing is off by 3 frames it will beat you
Super - if you don't jump with meaty attack and you're 1 frame too late and sim can super you

Hawk
SRK 4 frames. same as ryu but easier to cross up compared to shoto's srk

Cammy
Cannon Spike - 4 frames

Fei
Flame kick - 6 frames.
After the safe jump, the 2nd hitbox can catch you after you land. So be careful with the follow up. oshoto can safe jump + dp install. n shoto dp install will beat fk or trade

Dee Jay
RH up kick - 4 frames
MGU cross up - 4 frames
His up kick hits high, if you are close it's much better to go for ground low meaty attack + option select.

Rog
Jab Buffalo Headbutt - 11 frames, easiest to safe jump but has a lot of invincibility. If you opt for throw after landing, rog can counter throw.
Super - 5 frame

Claw
Flip Kick - 5 frames

Sagat
Tiger Uppercut - 3 frames. Sagat wakes up really fast. Eating a reversal dp from o sagat hurts. Be careful.

Dictator
If your safe jump timing is really off, he can do an immediate jumping strong, or crouching jab/strong/forward.
Super - 5 frames?
Post edited by papasi on
eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
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Comments

  • F-A-M-I-L-Y ManF-A-M-I-L-Y Man feedin you and feedin you Joined: Posts: 229
    This is rad, thanks.
    GGPO: Pillowhashi
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    wow, very nice.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    This made me a pro overnight.


    If you can make a corner bounce safe jump animation, then that would be super legit.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • 94SupraTT94SupraTT Joined: Posts: 148
    The ability to safe jump consistently is what separates the pros and beginners.

    Djfrijoles taught me to safe jump with shoto by watching for the second bounce after a srk. It is a great visual hint and help me safe jump successfully > 50% of the time with shoto.

    So I created this illustrated guide to safe jump with every character.

    http://tinyurl.com/safejump

    disclaimer:
    * it will not make you a pro overnight, you still have to practice just like everything else (combos).

    * this is using frame advance and does not take into account your reaction time, playing online with input lag, etc. so put some extra buffer for your scenario

    * there might be wrong assumption in this tool. constructive criticism welcome.
    Thanks for this! Maybe this will help my crappy claw.

    Sent from Samsung Fascinate running ICS.
    HD Remix - Vega
  • Zombie4uZombie4u Member Joined: Posts: 108
    Whoa that is AWESOME! Thanks for this Papasi!
  • SotoSoto The un-safe jump master. ~FrankieSnow~ Joined: Posts: 244
    papasi using hi tech now, well done!
    pd : urkensuckstill lololololOLOlol <
    joke, don`t be mad at me after :annoy:
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    Wow, awesome tool Papasi. Much appreciated.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    that is SICK. I don't have to rely on "fake" safe jumps anymore!
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    Wow, I have been playing all these years without knowing safe jumps. Thx Poopasi!

    punch lariat n kick lariat data is wrong since its 1 frame Vulnerable start up: 7-5-5-5-5.....
    http://www.golden-songs.com/ssf2st/st/zangief/#Lariat (kick)
    it should be 1-6-5-5-5-5....
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    I think Rog's super isnt 1 frame only... its 1 frame before the super flash, after it theres still 5 or so frames where he is not attacking yet otherwise it should be impossible to safe jump in practice.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • Raistlin XRaistlin X don't even. Joined: Posts: 47
    Thank you!
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    For your radio box frame numbers, (40-52 depending on which character is chosen, indicating the number of frames to complete a jump i'm guessing) is that number starting from when you input the jump command? or the number starting from when your character leaves the ground? I believe there is a 3-4 frame input lag even on the original arcade board (and for sure some input lag on xbl and ps3), I'm not sure if you've taken that into account...

    that's of course, assuming i'm correct in my assumption that the 40-52 frames indicate/change when you need to input jump.

    Also, your target, the countdown, they all start at different times and don't indicate when the trip actually begins, Maybe you can add a buffer so we can see and feel the timing...

    eg. for the full knockdown, most people use the first bounce as reference to "start" the timing... I know i do... (at least for my old "fake" ones, that aren't timed 100% properly) But for the regular knockdown you have them starting in mid air, without a starting point reference... maybe you can stick in a few frames and animate a character (any character) doing a HK so there's a reference point. I know, the animation is slower than the actual game, but check out your blanka regular knockdown... and animate, it stops after 2 frames if you set it to animate (50 frame character), where as balrog it stops after 8. At least for me, I need a bit of buffer time, to watch for and prepare for the coming jump.

    It's hard to explain

    but it's a "feeling" you're watching for the right moment, but you need to prepare for it. with some characters in your app, i'm unable to "watch" for the right moment if you know what i mean...

    other than those two things I think the program's great.
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    The numbers includes "input lag". Actually it is an incorrect term to describe the behavior in the arcade board. There is no lag, the machine detects your input the same frame as you press the button. But it will do some processing / animation / intentional delay etc.

    So if you have 0 reaction time, you should hit up forward as soon as you see that animation frame highlighted in blue.

    Its actually interesting regarding this reaction time. My conclusion is that once you train for looking at the correct frame to jump, it doesn't really matter.
    Let me try to explain, the average reaction time is 215 milliseconds = 12.9 frames.
    So in that case you should be looking at the animation 12 frames earlier. But that is incorrect.

    I think the reason is that 60 fps is happening so fast your brain does not actually instruct you to hit up forward after you see that frame. Instead, your brain is watching the series of animation and automatically put in "buffers" to tell you that correct frame is coming. And compensate by doing it slightly earlier.

    That's why the "animate" button in that webpage is way more useful than the "jump" button.

    Regarding regular knockdown. Actually I'm only including it as a reference. A lot of cases you don't even have enough time to safe jump (like after cr RH). Especially against some characters like sagat. But in some situation it might (like knocking down someone in the air with jab?).

    It is not useful to include the whole animation including the cr RH because... you can't safe jump after a cr RH knockdown.

    I don't know how else I can help you to prepare for it, except knowing when it is a full knockdown and when it's a regular knockdown and then know from experience if you have enough time to safe jump.

    If you know you have enough time, then you start noticing these animation changes and hit up forward at the correct time.


    Wow, I have been playing all these years without knowing safe jumps. Thx Poopasi!

    punch lariat n kick lariat data is wrong since its 1 frame Vulnerable start up: 7-5-5-5-5.....
    http://www.golden-songs.com/ssf2st/st/zangief/#Lariat (kick)
    it should be 1-6-5-5-5-5....
    These numbers are from t akiba's website.
    I'm not going to update the frame data until Old School BR and Born2SPD finished collecting the data using frame by frame advance.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    nerd talk
    <garyangel> ceks,cani,robbiers,yito all mexico players dont know where kyouya
    <garyangel> (((((((((((((((
    <djfrijoles> kyouya is with his gf gary
    <Random.Jab.DP.Spamer> his gf is gary ?
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276



    These numbers are from t akiba's website.
    I'm not going to update the frame data until Old School BR and Born2SPD finished collecting the data using frame by frame advance.

    they have the correct data of it in the ST wiki (1-6-5-5...) urs is wrong
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    they are not done with all the characters yet. what do you want that you can't wait?
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • girlystylegirlystyle Only plays Fugazi Joined: Posts: 1,804
    yussssss this is great, thanks so much.
    people only pay attention to me because of my vagina awesome penis
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    they are not done with all the characters yet. what do you want that you can't wait?
    why 1 frame diff bettween New n Old Chars?
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    because frame by frame advance said so?
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    papasi, did you tested all characters? I know that old shotos have faster prejump aniamtion by 1 frame. But i just tested here for gief and its the same for old and new.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    the way I tested it is to use the Turbo 0 cheat and do them all on claw's stage with no background (dammit's cheat).
    pause, put joystick to upward, frame advance until it is in the late jump arc, then use a jab or short before the character lands.
    frame advance until the red hit box is gone.

    not sure if that would be different than your test.
    are you going to document the jump frames in the ST character wiki also?
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    the way I tested it is to use the Turbo 0 cheat and do them all on claw's stage with no background (dammit's cheat).
    pause, put joystick to upward, frame advance until it is in the late jump arc, then use a jab or short before the character lands.
    frame advance until the red hit box is gone.

    not sure if that would be different than your test.
    are you going to document the jump frames in the ST character wiki also?
    wtf, thats stupid, just put 1Pvs 2P, map inputs for both 1P n 2P using the same D-buttons, keep jumping during all the 99 secs (neutral jump, diagonal jump) so far only Old Ryu n O ken jump faster than their New counterparts, others Old chars jump exactly the same than New ones
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    edit: Born2spd actually you're correct. I was wrong about characters other than old shotos, old deejay and old sagat.

    shitsho - the page will be updated later to reflect that.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    The numbers includes "input lag". Actually it is an incorrect term to describe the behavior in the arcade board. There is no lag, the machine detects your input the same frame as you press the button. But it will do some processing / animation / intentional delay etc.

    So if you have 0 reaction time, you should hit up forward as soon as you see that animation frame highlighted in blue.

    Yeah, again, that's why I ask asking for earlier animations for the jump. but you're right. You can't safe jump off a HK sweep.

    but if you hit upforward on the highlighted animation frame. Is that taken into account the 3 frames of input delay on the arcade board? or is it assuming no input delay at all?

    Or, did you use the 7-9 frame delay from ggpo/ps3/xbox360?
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    edit: Born2spd actually you're correct. I was wrong about characters other than old shotos, old deejay and old sagat.

    shitsho - the page will be updated later to reflect that.
    Now...
    what about safe neutral jump or diagonal back jump....?
    Thx Poopasi?
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • jdmjdm skillz Joined: Posts: 178
    wow good shit pap. very useful tool.

    should put frame animations for being thrown in the corner, tech thrown, and anti aired with normal. maybe not important but little more detail couldnt hurt.
    GGPO: jdmskillz

    Super Turbo all day.
  • jdmjdm skillz Joined: Posts: 178
    c'mon this thread is boss right now don't ignore it pap.
    GGPO: jdmskillz

    Super Turbo all day.
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    should put frame animations for being thrown in the corner, tech thrown, and anti aired with normal. maybe not important but little more detail couldnt hurt.
    If its viable then i say it would be a welcome addition. But for the others knockdowns I'm not sure if thats viable. I dont belive its a set time, i think it depends from the distance between where the opponent got knocked down and the corner, like, if you touch the corner while falling the animation changes, but it will depend from the distance you got knocked down. So there will be a window of possible wake up times and i dont believe you can decide when to jump on the fly. If you meant when the opponent actually is at the "max corner" (where you cant even move 1 pixel backwards because its not possible) then that would be a welcome addition but not THAT important imo. So if the throw knockdown, tech throw etc works like this as well then i think it will not be viable.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • jdmjdm skillz Joined: Posts: 178
    i'm just saying but still man u never know it could be useful maybe lol.

    well now i feel more confident tryna safe jump on claw and boxer now because of this illustration.
    GGPO: jdmskillz

    Super Turbo all day.
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    good luck trying to safe jump sagat, vega or sim, they wake up so fast, sim not so much since doesnt have a viable AA
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • jdmjdm skillz Joined: Posts: 178
    i know right, claw and sagat are tough to safe jump. blanka to. just one of those things u should rarely do to catch them off guard.
    GGPO: jdmskillz

    Super Turbo all day.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,714
    I think it's just something you have to practice in training. The safe-jump timing for any of those characters is REALLY early. I'm always caught off guard when I try to safe-jump Sim, and he just stands up and does a quick b+jab to knock me out of it, it looks really funky too.
  • jdmjdm skillz Joined: Posts: 178
    of course and the games alot faster than the illustration but catching the exact frame animation to safe jump on a full knockdown for each character is kinda tricky. and if u get knocked down should be the manner to know each characters frame to safe jump on u on a full knockdown.
    GGPO: jdmskillz

    Super Turbo all day.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I safe-jump Claw whenever I have the chance. That's one of the few things Ryu has in his favor, he just has to do it. It is not very hard for any character: you just need to score a full knockdown, since he recovers very fast from sweeps.

    Sim is very dangerous: if you mistime your jump, he will slide and either throw or combo you.

    Safe-jumping Sagat is a desperation measure, IMO. Very hard, and he gets away with his Jab TU, so it is really annoying.
  • jdmjdm skillz Joined: Posts: 178
    n.sagat i'll take the risk, o.sagat...fuck that

    yeah sim is risky, that slide headbutt combo usually dizzies and gives a good amount of meter.
    GGPO: jdmskillz

    Super Turbo all day.
  • girlystylegirlystyle Only plays Fugazi Joined: Posts: 1,804
    As a honda player, safe jumping is obviously essential to my game. After a butt slam, if you get the safe jump ~ n. edge oichio set up it leads to match ending mixups.

    The only characters I Don't really do it on all that much is O sagat and Rog.

    O Sagat for the obvious reason of if I fuck up the damage I take is not worth it, and Rog because Jumping in really doesn't work into my game plan too much of keeping him at bay with cr. jabs and slowly chipping away at his health.

    I will do it on Sim because it potentially ends the match after a midscreen short/forward butt slam, and in the very least makes it hard for him to space me out.
    people only pay attention to me because of my vagina awesome penis
  • jdmjdm skillz Joined: Posts: 178
    i think boxer is the one has to be safe jumped on a full knockdown on a regular(alot start up frames on headbutt but mostly invisible), makes him think twice about reversals and trying not getting knocked down. and its not as risky as it is against sim, blanka, o.sagat, claw, and ken.
    GGPO: jdmskillz

    Super Turbo all day.
  • girlystylegirlystyle Only plays Fugazi Joined: Posts: 1,804
    I am more talking about that because of the way I play against boxers the opportunity to safe jump doesn't really come into play. Life lead is super important in that match, so I find it more advantageous to safely poke him away normals and the very occasional hands pressure then risk mounting an offence, losing the life lead (even if its by a pixel) then being in a poor position. I generally have pretty good success playing against boxer this way.

    So because of that the occasion doesn't really arrise for me too much.
    If the opportunity does arrise then sure I will go for it, but the match usually goes me poking them to death.
    people only pay attention to me because of my vagina awesome penis
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    stick it please?
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • SpidercarnageSpidercarnage Joined: Posts: 91
    This is fantastic, I have been trying to find a rhythm/timing to safe jump boxer with Deejay for a while. I think it's more boxers wake up hitbox that throws me off but now at least I have a clue what to look for. Great work.
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