Captain America's Popularity- The Curse of the Gift

YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 698
I've noticed that as Captain America's popularity has increased in Ultimate, players have become more adept in dealing with him. Fairly decent players have learned to just block against him, therefore frame traps don't work. I now have to use his cartwheel/assist mix up to make myself safe lol (being negative on everything is annoying!). Plus, if the opponent is stuck in block stun, the auto-guarding may nullify the cross up attempt anyway.

I am beginning to adjust to this- I have become more patient, try not to fully commit and throw opponents more. However, I now have had to change the assists I use. Hidden missiles have become plasma beam. So now my hundred percent combos with Cap are out the window. I have to rely on resets now as well, which can become predictable too.

I am appreciative of his buffs in Ultimate, (although I prefer the Vanilla incarnation). But it also means having to use characters or assists I wouldn't normally select. Adapting is one thing, but having to completely change is kind of upsetting.

What are the Cap users general approach to people becoming more privy to our character?
"This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.

Comments

  • JellokJellok Joined: Posts: 39
    I try to be unpredictable...stay within shield slash range... and take away the lanes people like to approach.. assist beam charging star....over n over till they get impatient. I dunno i dont like throws....lol seems when ever i go for it online i just get thrown...and never break lol...play patient so patient. I had changed from arthur to iron man cause arthurs daggers dont stun like vanilla. Turtles are annoying but its fun when u finally crack em open :)
  • lamunesslamuness Joined: Posts: 720
    Be patient. Don't throw shields when they're close. Especially within 50% of the screen. This was true even in vanilla. I personally don't think his gameplan has changed much. Projectile + CS / cartwheel, find some dirty mixups with it. And why did you change out of Missiles? HCS + missiles = 2 HCS. lol. Don't flip like crazy, you have to catch them off guard, preferably with assist.
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 698
    I try to be unpredictable...stay within shield slash range... and take away the lanes people like to approach.. assist beam charging star....over n over till they get impatient. I dunno i dont like throws....lol seems when ever i go for it online i just get thrown...and never break lol...play patient so patient. I had changed from arthur to iron man cause arthurs daggers dont stun like vanilla. Turtles are annoying but its fun when u finally crack em open :)
    Thanks. I tried using Iron Man but quite frankly he's trash- Nah I'm playing lol. I like his combos but I feel like he's not a great character. Unibeam starts up to slow for me, and the damage scaling it causes is really high, so it's awful as a hit-confirm. I just couldn't make him work for me :( Still, I try to see if the opponent is turtling before going for a throw, but even offline, I won't try it on characters like Amaterasu haha. But yeah, I love rushing down, so I need to take my time. Thanks for the tips, I need to add them to my game. Appreciate it!
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 698
    Be patient. Don't throw shields when they're close. Especially within 50% of the screen. This was true even in vanilla. I personally don't think his gameplan has changed much. Projectile + CS / cartwheel, find some dirty mixups with it. And why did you change out of Missiles? HCS + missiles = 2 HCS. lol. Don't flip like crazy, you have to catch them off guard, preferably with assist.
    I dropped hidden missiles because although it gave me ToDs, they aren't an assist that give you cover like the plasma beam, disruptor, or taskmaster or hawkeye's arrows. You're still vulnerable until they come down, and they can ruin your combos too.

    I tried the charging star+projectile mix up, but I guess it doesn't work if you do it with the heavy CS ¬_¬ lol. I definitely need to be less predictable with the cartwheels, and be smarter with the shield slashes (i.e. not do the jumping l SS all the time lol). Thanks :D
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
  • Kei_Kei_ Joined: Posts: 586
    What is your actual team now, you've only said you have Doom's beam now...what else? Also I 100% agree that Cap's gameplan is still almost exactly the same as the first game. The only big difference now is that you NEED to implement as many chances for grabs as you possibly can. That is simply something you CANNOT leave out of your plan if you want to make your Cap as scary as he can be.

    You can't properly setup a counter hit setup if you don't use throws in your game. The main aspect of a counter hit setup is that the opponent is going to want to press buttons because they have to be ready to tech the throw you could do. You can't rely too heavily on doing a normal tick counter hit setup with Cap since his c.L is -5 on block so there are quite a few people that can counter poke you without fear...unless you have them scared of being thrown.

    It's hard to get over, but you also have to realize that you can't always use shield slashes against all characters. Some are ALWAYS going to be in a range where it's 100% unsafe because they're simply far far far too fast in getting over to you stuck in the air waiting to die. In those kinda matches you have to rely on your fundementals and spacing.

    Sitting just far enough away that you can easily dash up grab/c.L/charging star/etc. will be the smartest thing you can do. Doing 'nothing' is very scary for an opponent because technically everything you do leads almost to their best counter.

    I think you need to go back to missiles instead of beam. The damage is far better, and the beam doesn't really give you the coverage you need as Cap...it does when you're other characters, but not for Cap. Charging star is NOT safe with Doom's beam since it doesn't have a long enough active frame window for anything other than a L.charging star and maybe a dash L.charging star (close to M.star range). If the beam hits then you have almost no time to get a follow up since it causes soft knockdown.

    Charging star + beam is more of a movement tool than anything (it's really good) so I feel as though it's very important in most matchups. It is also very useful for incoming character crossups due to it's speed, and with a good beam (aka Ironman lol) will hold the opponent for you to recover and follow up or throw.

    I'd write more, but I'm watching a stream archive at the same time and lost my train of thought due to hype overload lol. :D


    Good luck

    Kei

    edit: if you want to have a really good Cap you need to learn to fight w/o assists, you'll be a ton stronger with them once you can do that
  • Kei_Kei_ Joined: Posts: 586
    In case you weren't aware....a basic solo midscreen combo from a backthrow with Cap does 547,600 dmg. Even a simple throw, otg xx Hyper Charging star does a huge 434,100 dmg.

    Add in some assists and just imagine what kinda damage you can get...
  • otterotter CFN: otter- Joined: Posts: 4,687
    I haven't noticed Cap getting more popular honestly, except when I went to Ohayocon lol. Top 8 had at least 3 cap players.
  • Kei_Kei_ Joined: Posts: 586
    I have indeed noticed more Caps floating around the internet. Most of them are just throwing air shields all day long, and trying naked cartwheel mixups though. there have been one or two that have shown some potential.

    I had a fight against a guy the other day on xbl who made a crazy xf3 comeback with a little life left, he taunted after he won. Then I picked MY Cap team (I was using an Ironman team to put in more work with him).....he hit me.....I think.

    I taunted, he left, I laughed.

    Show some respect! - Steve Rogers

    Kei
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 698
    In case you weren't aware....a basic solo midscreen combo from a backthrow with Cap does 547,600 dmg. Even a simple throw, otg xx Hyper Charging star does a huge 434,100 dmg.

    Add in some assists and just imagine what kinda damage you can get...
    Sorry I haven't replied sooner, jury service lol. But yeah, thanks :D these were really informative.

    My teams now Cap, Spencer and Doctor Doom. I changed to plasma beam as it helped me move about more, especially with Spencer. But I faced a Cap who didn't call assists as you said, and the fact that he won when Cap wasn't his main means you're on to something lol. I've since tried to use cap without assists (and the shield slash) and it's going alright. I did switch back to hidden missiles but I need the plasma beam more for Spencer's sake than Cap's now, so thanks haha. If I can break him in more I'll switch back to hidden missiles. And besides, one touch kills were a relief! lol

    Also, I didn't know/never thought of comboing off a back throw with Captain America, so great tip :D
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 698
    I haven't noticed Cap getting more popular honestly, except when I went to Ohayocon lol. Top 8 had at least 3 cap players.
    I wish I could've been referring to tournaments I attend, but for now I'm stuck to online 'til I get a pad converter lol. Though I have come across more Captain America's of late. Considering in Vanilla I only remember fighting one; now I'm always expecting to see at least 3 when I go online and to a lobby. Also, in the stream I occasionally watch, I have seen a few Caps. Though I don't know if he was the players main in vanilla :$ so that may or may not count haha.

    Still, I have definitely noticed that people have become a lot more smarter in dealing with Cap. Either way, I just need to step up my play with him as I can't rely on people's lack of match up experience against him for a win anymore lol
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
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