The "SFxT isn't turtle-y unless you turtle" thread (good matches)

The Lone DragonThe Lone Dragon perverted feministJoined: Posts: 2,667 ✭✭✭
Since the SRK frontpage doesn't like posting good MATCH footage of SFxT for some reason (I e-mailed them about the CapcomXGodsgarden archives days ago, and still nothing), I decided to take it upon myself.

I heard a commentator on the Canada Cup stream say "SFxT is a turtle-y game". I loled. In North America perhaps. Not elsewhere.

FACT: If you actively choose to turtle, then any fighting game will be boring.

The footage in this thread will be of people who play this game properly.

CAPCOM X GODSGARDEN STREAM ARCHIVES (the wonders of motivated announcers...what a concept! Maybe we should give that a try...):
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/21463205 (block play)
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/21465407 (top 8)
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/21466920 (top 8/finals)



Also, some online replay footage.


Yogaflame24's channel has a lot of footage
(some cross assault usage)



As does ssf4evo



If you find good matches that demonstrate the non-North American way of playing this game, please post them here.

EDIT:

+70 minutes of gameplay: 3 time outs counted...





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Comments

  • otoriotori Keep calm and huehuehue Joined: Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm not sure i follow. You saying we should ban turtle play from tournaments?
  • BoodendorfBoodendorf Imposing your will is a matter of strength. Joined: Posts: 1,464
    I'm not sure i follow. You saying we should ban turtle play from tournaments?
    Where did you even read the words "ban" and "tournament" in his post?

    Anyway thanks for posting the godsgarden matches, missed the beginning.
    "‎I don't know if you've ever let someone down, got your ass kicked or straight up failed. But those are the moments that define us. They push you further than you've ever thought possible, and force you to make choices. No matter what the cost." — Cole MacGrath
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  • otoriotori Keep calm and huehuehue Joined: Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭✭
    I see a post saying we shouldn't play turtle and maybe hop all around the screen? Listing a poongko match as a way a game should be played is a nice joke though.
  • RedVegaRedVega Joined: Posts: 768 ✭✭✭
    I'm not sure i follow. You saying we should ban turtle play from tournaments?
    He's saying that Americans should see how people outside of the U.S. play SF X Tekken because it's indicative that maybe this game is meant to be played at a fast pace (and I agree). Americans tend to play this game very defensively a la SF4... and other players are showing that this is a pretty fast and aggressive game.
  • ironboy89ironboy89 Beep Boop Beep Joined: Posts: 4,659 ✭✭✭
    People seriously need to watch that UltraChen TV with them trying to get people to make better choices. You may not like UltraChen........but they doing it right by teaching people to play the game properly.
  • ironboy89ironboy89 Beep Boop Beep Joined: Posts: 4,659 ✭✭✭
    Also, NCR SFXT didn't have "turtlely" gameplay either.....so I don't see where you acting like North America is doing it wrong.
  • 9898989898989898 98 Member Joined: Posts: 148
    Way too early to say how the game 'should' be played, but certain the system seems to reward turtling a lot.
  • The Lone DragonThe Lone Dragon perverted feminist Joined: Posts: 2,667 ✭✭✭
    Nothing at NCR compared to the energy
    I see a post saying we shouldn't play turtle and maybe hop all around the screen? Listing a poongko match as a way a game should be played is a nice joke though.

    You may have missed the memo, but he doesn't play Seth in SFxT...since Seth isn't in SFxT. (Anyone want to make an Ogre joke? I set you up perfectly...anyone?)
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  • otoriotori Keep calm and huehuehue Joined: Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭✭
    And yet he plays kazuya/anyone else the same way, without giving a fuck.
    Nothing at NCR compared to the energy

    Oh i see...it's about the hype. Let's fly nuki in, he makes everything look hype.
  • Dime_xDime_x master theorist Joined: Posts: 4,938 ✭✭
    srry, but i aint buying that this game isnt turtly at all. if a player WANTS TO WIN, they will turtle. and they will force the other guy to turtle also. all those poongko matches where hes juming around like an idiot cause its casuals online dont seem indicative that the game wont be turtly.

    im not even saying that the game IS truly turtly... just that seeing people hopping all over the place doesnt seem indicative of a smart style of play... but maybe thats just me: the way i see it is there is no way to be offensive from neutral in the game without taking a decent amount of risk as there arent any moving forwards moves that are safe on block which mainly leaves dashing and jumping as offense.... which gets blown up by smart defensive play. if there were more characters with more varied approaches that force a player to choose between different defenses then maybe i could see it... but not right now.


    anywho ty for linking to the GG stream.


    -dime
    Skullgirls: Painwheel/double & Peacock/x/painwheel. SSF4 AE 2012: Ibuki
    ST: Dee Jay,Vega,Ryu,Zangief,Boxer,Chun,Guile,Sagat
    If you're offended by your own playstyle that doesnt make sense -Pali
    -Dime_x
  • XDubzXXDubzX Joined: Posts: 114
    Whenever I hear the "you're playing it wrong" I know the game sucks. You can't play a good game wrong. It should be satisfying...aka "fun"...no matter how you play it.
  • Hatred EdgeHatred Edge FEAR MY WRATH Joined: Posts: 12,973 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Also, NCR SFXT didn't have "turtlely" gameplay either.....so I don't see where you acting like North America is doing it wrong.
    The SFxT board I assume.
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  • The Lone DragonThe Lone Dragon perverted feminist Joined: Posts: 2,667 ✭✭✭
    Whenever I hear the "you're playing it wrong" I know the game sucks. You can't play a good game wrong. It should be satisfying...aka "fun"...no matter how you play it.

    Wut?

    So, then where did the expression "playing lame" come from?

    Where did the expression "turtle" come from? And, why does it have a negative connotation?

    I think most people who play fighting games (and, I'm not even talking about SFxT) can name play styles or character styles that they simply do not enjoy fighting against...even in their favorite games.

    My point is that you shouldn't blame that on the game.
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  • terror k07terror k07 Joined: Posts: 254
    Whenever I hear the "you're playing it wrong" I know the game sucks. You can't play a good game wrong. It should be satisfying...aka "fun"...no matter how you play it.
    you would call playing chris g's morgian team in mvc3 or dimineon's guile in sf4 fun?
  • SUPARNOVAXSUPARNOVAX 必殺技 Joined: Posts: 5,245
    ITT: We're hypocrites and we trash on SFxT for the hell of it.
    "Defeat is a state of mind. No one is ever defeated until defeat has been accepted as reality. To me, defeat in anything is merely temporary, and its punishment is but an urge for me to greater effort to achieve my goal. Defeat simply tells me that something is wrong in my doing; it is a path leading to success and truth." ~ Bruce Lee
  • Vulcan HadesVulcan Hades Flea Stance Tea-bagging Joined: Posts: 1,842
    Yeah blocking is pretty strong in this game. I mean frame traps are kinda useless because no one is even scared of normal throws since you can see them coming a mile away. So you can press buttons and try to cross-up all you want it's not going to matter against a player that knows how to block properly.

    In MK9, you can't turtle too much because blocking gives your opponent insane amounts of meter and chips you to death. I always thought it was kinda stupid until now. I realize it was smart design to keep the game from being too defensive and lame to watch. It forces you to use movement (walking+backdash), specials and pokes that alter your hittable box for defense instead of relying on the block button which is nice.
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  • ukyo_rulzukyo_rulz Joined: Posts: 2,851 ✭✭✭
    Saying that a game "isn't turtle-y unless you turtle" is like saying that special moves "won't chip you unless you block".
    "Being degrading or insulting is not the same as being hype." - Mike Z
  • PhillyfanboyPhillyfanboy Some 09 noob Joined: Posts: 95
    SFxT is a good game tbh. It needs a few tweaks, but I like the game.
    SFxT

    AE2012:Sagat
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  • PsychobluePsychoblue the Conductor of the Hype Train Joined: Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭✭
    I recall someone telling me that the US HATED 3rd Strike until around 2001 when Japanese match footage started coming in and people realized they weren't playing the game correctly...

    ...wow, that sounds familiar.
  • tatakitataki Non-SF4/MVC3 FG news: twitter.com/#!/novriltataki Joined: Posts: 6,616 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The best characters are iron walls. Sorry to break it to you but good turtles are the best in this game.
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  • OMG its a duckOMG its a duck Bruh I'm in down bad bruh Joined: Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭✭
    COME ON STOP TURTLING GUYS, THIS ISN'T FUN! THIS ISN'T HOW YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PLAY, STOP IT! COME ON, GIVE ME A CHANCE GUYS I CAN'T EVEN HIT YOU, COME ON, ALL YOU DO IS BLOCK!
  • ironboy89ironboy89 Beep Boop Beep Joined: Posts: 4,659 ✭✭✭
    you would call playing chris g's morgian team in mvc3 or dimineon's guile in sf4 fun?
    ............but why would that be consider playing the game wrong?
  • Gimpyfish62Gimpyfish62 Master of Bowser Joined: Posts: 1,820
    i came into this thread, clicked on the first video, and saw that the first round went to 3 seconds on the clock... (then closed the link)

    is this supposed to be the fast paced non turtley gameplay? because that's PRETTY AWFUL if it is.
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  • ForteForte Taking Aim Joined: Posts: 265
    I recall someone telling me that the US HATED 3rd Strike until around 2001 when Japanese match footage started coming in and people realized they weren't playing the game correctly...

    ...wow, that sounds familiar.

    That was over a decade ago. Games get figured out and evolve on a whole 'nother level in 2012.
  • PKSkylerPKSkyler Viewtiful and Stylish! Joined: Posts: 6,998
    i like how the very first round of the very first video you posted was 3 seconds from a time over and the person who won woulda won from time anyway.
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  • Cody&Guy18Cody&Guy18 Joined: Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭✭
    Lol, people misunderstood the OP. He's not saying that you shouldn't turtle at all or that he can't handle playing against people who play defensively, he saying that applying this playstyle does not count for SFxT only and makes it a totally defensive type of game. Most streams make SFxT look like a slow paced game and full of time outs. Yet, when you see GodsGarden:

    - Barely time outs. And when they occur, players either stand their ground, counter or don't backdash/jump back like crazy to ensure their win.
    - Character variation! 1 Ryu (iirc) in top eight, no Rolento and Rufus (= last one being picked like hell when people start to lose just for his strong dive kick pressure and cross-ups). Oh, what about Raven then? Well, Kazunoko knew his shit, so you got to blame him for that right?!
    - Commentators who ENJOY the game. TastySteve and RIP come to mind at the LevelUp tournament. "Yo, commentator thinks this game sucks, got to think the same right?!?" -> stream monster mindset.
    - Way more rushdown, punish at the right moments, tag out at the right moments (don't be a hero, raw tag if you have to!), alpha counters, Cross Arts,...

    SFIV has to get out of people's mind when they play this game. I guess people have to pick a scapegoat everytime, and that's SFxT for now...
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  • OMG its a duckOMG its a duck Bruh I'm in down bad bruh Joined: Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭✭
    But the main goal of just about any competitive fighting game is to find the way to play the game most optimally, not what's fun or entertaining, results above anything else. It just so happens that turtle-y play is very strong in this game, so it gets used a lot. It's boring, but it's what works.

    If you have to play a game a certain way for it to be fun that isn't simply trying to win at it, then it's not going to be a very fun competitive game. It can be a fun game that isn't competitive, but as a competitive game it'll be boring.

    Also hype commentators can make anything good. MST3K.
  • X Fatal Grace XX Fatal Grace X Joined: Posts: 232
    C'mon boys and girls- it's 2012!!

    Don't you know this by now..

    If you lose to a character w/ projectile- they are spammers

    If you lose to a character that can block- they are turtles

    If you lose to a character that uses normals or unique attacks- they are scrubs

    If you are a turtle and lose to another turtle- they are lame

    If you lose to someone to a timeout- you just played someone who didn't know how to play "properly"
    (as everyone knows all matches must end in K.O. To be "properly played")

    Seriously, for everyones sake, I hope you do not use one or more of the following characters in SFxT:
    Cammy, Chun Li, Hugo, Sagat, Dhalsim, Ryu, Rufus, Poison, Vega, Zangief, Balrog, Akuma, Ibuki, Guile, Bison, Abel, Juri, Ken, Rolento, Kazuya, Ogre, Steve, King, Jin, Xiaoyu, Asuka, Heihachi, Kuma, Lili, Julia, Marduk, Nina, Paul, Raven, Yoshimitsu, Bob, Hwoarang, or Law

    Because if you do, and you win, you may be called a label from above, and that not only hurts feelings, and e-peen, but also the FGC as a whole.
  • entenfettentenfett WasiKaBooM Joined: Posts: 215
    you would call playing chris g's morgian team in mvc3 or dimineon's guile in sf4 fun?

    I don't care for marvel, but watching a good Guile is the most "fun" i can have watching a SF game. I don't mind defensive play at all. Give me one good Guile match over the 200 best Seth matches any day of the week. Maybe thats why i enjoy current SFxT streams even when most commentators don't seem to give a shit and are trying to point how boring timeouts are all day for whatever reason.
    Whenever I hear the "you're playing it wrong" I know the game sucks. You can't play a good game wrong. It should be satisfying...aka "fun"...no matter how you play it.

    Do you keep posting in the forums of other games you don't like too or is it just this one? Is this "fun" for you?
  • VicioushellsingVicioushellsing Joined: Posts: 422
    Speaking of Ultrachen's "opinion" on how the game should be played. During their interview I remember early on they said Ryan Hunter said they were completely wrong and would be doing a show a few days later on the same thing. Anyone know what he said?
    Heres hoping for psylocke DLC. *crosses fingers*
  • Mr. UnbrockableMr. Unbrockable I like Thomas the Tank Engine Joined: Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭✭
    COME ON STOP TURTLING GUYS, THIS ISN'T FUN! THIS ISN'T HOW YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PLAY, STOP IT! COME ON, GIVE ME A CHANCE GUYS I CAN'T EVEN HIT YOU, COME ON, ALL YOU DO IS BLOCK!
    That actually is EXACTLY the kind of thing my older brother says when we play FG's. then he calls me cheap and sling various other insults.
    Rattle Rattle thunder clatter boom boom boom
  • Fatal Error XIFatal Error XI Such Beautiful Misery Joined: Posts: 987 ✭✭✭
    Speaking of Ultrachen's "opinion" on how the game should be played. During their interview I remember early on they said Ryan Hunter said they were completely wrong and would be doing a show a few days later on the same thing. Anyone know what he said?
    He did not stream, he's going to write an article instead. Source:
    MEyus.jpg
  • VicioushellsingVicioushellsing Joined: Posts: 422
    Ah cool thanks for that.
    Heres hoping for psylocke DLC. *crosses fingers*
  • del1riumdel1rium Hype Junkie Joined: Posts: 1,800
    So, then where did the expression "playing lame" come from?

    Like most FG lingo (or any vernacular) it came from the need to describe something ... in this case, a style of play. Diemineon plays lame. Chris G plays lame. Eddie Lee plays lame. JWong used to play lame. Lots of players who also happen to get results. Funny how that works. Because if they were playing "wrong" instead of "lame" they'd just be bad at the game.
    Where did the expression "turtle" come from? And, why does it have a negative connotation?

    Only has a negative connotation among scrubs and bad players who think if you're not furiously jumping around and pressing buttons then you're not playing the game "the right way."
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  • WonderswanWonderswan PUTTIN' QUARTERS UP Joined: Posts: 684
    People seriously need to watch that UltraChen TV with them trying to get people to make better choices. You may not like UltraChen........but they doing it right by teaching people to play the game properly.

    People who actually give a fuck already are playing and learning the game 'properly', don't think otherwise just because SRK is overrun with butt frustrated sperglords who never stfu whinging.
    "A capacity for unlimited effort will hurdle the difficulties that frustrate lukewarm enthusiasts." - Loomis
  • Dime_xDime_x master theorist Joined: Posts: 4,938 ✭✭
    People who actually give a fuck already are playing and learning the game 'properly', don't think otherwise just because SRK is overrun with butt frustrated sperglords who never stfu whinging.


    there is no proper way to play any game. if you have the skill to rushdown a turtle in a mostly defensive game, you can do it. if you have the skill to play defensively in a rushdown game, you can do it. LOL at playing a fighting game "properly" when i come in and AA all those bullshit jumpins and do half damage from one anti air...


    -dime
    Skullgirls: Painwheel/double & Peacock/x/painwheel. SSF4 AE 2012: Ibuki
    ST: Dee Jay,Vega,Ryu,Zangief,Boxer,Chun,Guile,Sagat
    If you're offended by your own playstyle that doesnt make sense -Pali
    -Dime_x
  • WonderswanWonderswan PUTTIN' QUARTERS UP Joined: Posts: 684
    there is no proper way to play any game. if you have the skill to rushdown a turtle in a mostly defensive game, you can do it. if you have the skill to play defensively in a rushdown game, you can do it. LOL at playing a fighting game "properly" when i come in and AA all those bullshit jumpins and do half damage from one anti air...


    -dime

    Oh I know Dimey, that's why I singled out the 'properly' part. The entire idea is stupid, I wanted to get across the only way you can fail at playing a game is bitching and whining about it like an autismal fuck on a message board. Hope I cleared that up.

    Seriously, only retards approach a game and try and force it to play like the only other game they've put any time into.
    "A capacity for unlimited effort will hurdle the difficulties that frustrate lukewarm enthusiasts." - Loomis
  • AnneIFrankAnneIFrank Joined: Posts: 427
    If turtling is so godlike why the fuck is Rufus considered S Tier?

    I swear to god SRK will never make any fucking sense.
  • X Fatal Grace XX Fatal Grace X Joined: Posts: 232
    If turtling is so godlike why the fuck is Rufus considered S Tier?

    I swear to god SRK will never make any fucking sense.

    Clearly different peoples "OPINION" cannot contradict one another.

    If turtle is working for group A, and Rufus is S tier to group B... This is the epitome of chaos and people not knowing what they are talking about!
  • AnneIFrankAnneIFrank Joined: Posts: 427
    Clearly different peoples "OPINION" cannot contradict one another.

    If turtle is working for group A, and Rufus is S tier to group B... This is the epitome of chaos and people not knowing what they are talking about!

    Most forums either have a general consensus or a Camp A/Camp B type of thing.

    On SRK it's so fucked I never really know who's gonna say what at any moment.
  • X Fatal Grace XX Fatal Grace X Joined: Posts: 232
    Most forums either have a general consensus or a Camp A/Camp B type of thing.

    On SRK it's so fucked I never really know who's gonna say what at any moment.

    Fun isn't it?
  • AnneIFrankAnneIFrank Joined: Posts: 427
  • PrzPrz Joined: Posts: 310
    FACT: If you actively choose to turtle, then any fighting game will be boring.

    whether or not SFxT actually favors turtlers or not aside..

    uh, if one person turtles and it is hard for the enemy to deal with it, it is a turtley game. two people making some sort of "gentlemen's agreement" not to turtle doesnt change how the game is. "YO IF EVERYONE PICKS HAKAN IN SF4 THEN HAKAN WILL BE TOP TIER. ITS ONLY A NON-HAKAN GAME IF PEOPLE DONT PLAY HAKAN"
    you would call playing chris g's morgian team in mvc3 or dimineon's guile in sf4 fun?

    as many characters, yes.
  • Dime_xDime_x master theorist Joined: Posts: 4,938 ✭✭
    If turtling is so godlike why the fuck is Rufus considered S Tier?

    I swear to god SRK will never make any fucking sense.


    'cause rufus has a broken move that even idiots can use to create offense. and not every character is rufus. sf4 is defensive game. but it has rufus, the twins, viper etc that can all rushdown.. but they do it through moves that most of the cast has absolutely no access to (ex seismo..WTF?) and unless you are using one of those types of characters then the game is defensive in nature.

    sfxt is defensive in nature.... VERY defensive, probably even more defensive than sf4. BUT, there are character that can eclipse that via how there moves work. unfortunately, however its THE MECHANICS of the game that make it defensive.


    idk its an easy concept for me to understand:

    umvc3 is an offensive game.... very easy to understand, yet morrigan and doom can play lame and rain down lockdown plasma from fullscreen... doesnt make the game not offensive, just makes those characters when put together, defensive.


    -dime
    Skullgirls: Painwheel/double & Peacock/x/painwheel. SSF4 AE 2012: Ibuki
    ST: Dee Jay,Vega,Ryu,Zangief,Boxer,Chun,Guile,Sagat
    If you're offended by your own playstyle that doesnt make sense -Pali
    -Dime_x
  • AnneIFrankAnneIFrank Joined: Posts: 427


    -dime

    I'm not arguing design, I just don't what I'm supposed to complain about anymore.

    tl;dr I'm a smart ass
  • SoulzityrSoulzityr Joined: Posts: 54
    People complaining about there not being needed to be told a way to play the game should watch the actual video first. You'll see they're not telling you what STYLE you should play, but a way to optimize damage from your combos, in which case is pointing out how to manipulate the mathematical calculations of damage in combos. They don't say that "this game isn't meant to turtle, people shouldn't do it"

    I'm talking about the UltraChen video
  • ThancruzThancruz Joined: Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭✭✭
    at this point both sides are beating a dead horse. People can come out with a thousand vids of Japan or England or Brazil playing this game totally different and will still be SFxTimeout if the time is even close to 0 at the end of the match. And people will still be claiming SSF4 as one of the best games ever even though just last year people were talking about how boring the game was and calling it "Yun fighter 4" "Snore fighter 4" or whatever SRK joke name given to the latest Capcom game. Just play or don't play the game, and go back to your respective corners and continue supporting whatever game u do (KOF 13,SFxT,SCV, etc.)
  • OMG its a duckOMG its a duck Bruh I'm in down bad bruh Joined: Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭✭
    And people will still be claiming SSF4 as one of the best games ever

    I have never seen anyone say SF4 is a great series except for reasons like "it brought the community back together"
  • PiepmatzPiepmatz Touch Fuzzy, Get Dizzy! Joined: Posts: 274
    Weren´t most of you guys arguing about how anti-airs, reversals and fireballs are too weak a few days ago? Wasn´t this thread supposed to be a videothread for good and interesting matches? Seems like it already turned into one of these timeout/turtle discussions. Only "hot" topics missing yet are "DLC on disk" and assistgems.
    I don´t want to tell people what to talk about but please keep in mind that this game isn´t even out a whole month. I know I´m not the first one saying this but it´s impossible to know what will happen to the metagame (can one use this word in a fighting game environment?) in the next few months or years. Don´t pretend everything concerning the gameplay is set in stone already.
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  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,206 ✭✭
    you would call playing chris g's morgian team in mvc3 or dimineon's guile in sf4 fun?
    Ya, I would. What of it? I also like watching them. 2 of my favorite players for exactly the reasons you list.



    I also love how most of you are saying that people in SFxT just hop around a lot and whatever. What about KoF? There is a SHIT TON of jumping in that game. OH, but since it's cool to hate on SFxT and KoF is a "real honest fighting game" (that is meaningless statement btw) it's ok that there is alot of jumping in the game.
    I'm not sure i follow. You saying we should ban turtle play from tournaments?
    I have no clue who you got this from what he said.

    OP is pointing out there there are different play styles but no one appreciates that fact that he collected a ton of high level play and out it together for people to watch. I think the game is incredibly flexible. Some people don't like turtles, does that mean we should remove that ENTIRE play style from the game? I think that would only serve to lessen the game overall. It should cater to many different styles. That is the that mark of a good game.
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