The Difference in power is now clear - The Raven Matchup Thread

xZephyrxxZephyrx Joined: Posts: 65
So since there isn't one here and i figure the earlier the start we get the better. ESPECIALLY with Evo being 2v2 so you point ravens out there have some memorizing to do!

The format will be:

Overall Strategy
Frame Data for your opponents most notable moves
Ways to punish/avoid said moves
Footage of GOOD game-play for said match up/ demonstrations of how to deal with certain attacks

The Mirror Match
Game plan:

Look out for:

How to deal with it:

Abel
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Akuma
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Asuka
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Balrog
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Bob
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Cammy
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Chun Li <Done>
Game plan: Because she has low health and mediocre wake up options the goal is to get in her face and wreck shop. Because her jump is so floaty you can easily AA or dash under almost ANY jump in attempt. C. :mk: is your friend here when it comes to staggers. if she gets low on health and attempts to tag play it safe and do j. :hp: c.:mk: into stuff for the punish or bait it at full screen and crossed ninja star teleport to punish the incoming character

Look out for: St. :mp:(+1/-3), Cr. :hk:(knockdown/-8), Option Select Target Combo/Hazanshu(+6 or knockdown or groundbounce/0 punishes teleport reversals). When stocked with 2 meter Senretsukyaku.

How to deal with it: for Standing :mp:, your standing :hp: will cause a crumple state on Counter hit, so get a feel for their timing of throwing it out. Remember Chun has VERY good range. so keep an eye on the Cr. :hk: distance and make all jump in attempts ambiguous or on wake up. any other situation you will get anti aired. if she neutral jumps and times it wrong neutral jump :mp: to air to air it giving you a juggle state and a free punish. As far as Senretsukyaku is concerned, if you realize the players reaction speed is a little bit slow you can bait it out with light crossed ninja start canceled into teleport, remember once you get in on her her only option is Ex SBK. Also be wary of my personal favorite frame trap. c. :lp:, st :mp:, RH Hyakuretsukyaku. Leaves her with just enough space to do it twice in a row. -xZephyrx
Cole
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Dhalsim
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Guile
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Heihachi
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Hugo
Game Plan: ZONE
Hugo can't crouch block low tiger knee kunais so in a neutral state hugo will take alot of chip trying to close the gap. If he crouch blocks a tiger knee kunai from a distance and you recover as he blocked it, you can throw a grounded heavy kunai and it will catch his prejump(with enough hugo practice you'll know the timing). If your anticipating a jump you can also release your tiger knee kunais a little higher or just nuetral jump kunai. The idea is to keep hugo out without backing up into the corner.

Look out for/Playing footsies
If hugo is within poking distance with meter you should be wary of tiger kneeing a kunai because he can ex back breaker through it.

If hugo gets within poking distance he will more than likely do 3 things: c.:lk: > to clap nonsense, dash farward if he is just outside c:mk: range or jump in. All you have to do is stand your ground and react accordingly. If he dashes you low foward cross wind, if he jumps you anti air with c:mp: or go air-air and if he does low shorts you low block. You do NOT play footsies with him, Raven can't whiff punish hugos low short. If you have space behind you and the hugo hesitates, it would probably be a good idea to kunai>teleport back with kicks( I don't do this too often but it can get you out of jail for free). Note(by xZephyrx a well timed c.:mk: will beat hugo's jump ins for a free wind cross combo. Raven will act much like Chun Li's c.:mp: and lower his hitbox to the point where hugo will just recover into a meaty c.:mk:

Hugos wake up options:
Unlike traditional grapplers, hugos wake up game is actually weaker than what it seems on the surface. His lariat, ex lariat, command throw and ex command throw are all throwable, so if your in his face and you anticipate a wake of any sort throw him. don't jump away because he will probably backbreaker you or catch you with lariat. if they're desperate they may wake up super.

if your stuck in a situation where he's doing low short clap> low short clap just block and look for the low short> lariet dash cancel. he is actually negative when he does that and you can low jab> low forward> crosswind punish it before the 360 comes out. if he's going clap happy and you have space you can backdash in between the low short clap and there's nothing hugo can do about it.

if he's doing the spamming cross up jump splats, just do your best to block it and when your back is facing the side of the stage with the most space your backdash and teleport after blocking the splat.

if your backed up into a corner good luck. if you think he's gonna throw do a reversal ex alter ego(with LK+HK); otherwise use an alpha counter. if i get knocked down in the corner by hugo i tend to roll foward and teleport away.

also be wary of his chained overheads.

Play safe and play lame. Theres nothing hugo can do to stop you
-Ssj2jeff

Hwoarang
Game plan:

Look out for:

How to deal with it:


Ibuki
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Jin
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Julia
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Juri
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Kazuya <done>
Game Plan: I think this match up is pretty straight forward. I mix up between ground kunais from outside his jump in range and tiger knee backwards kunais. If he miststepsthe grounded or air kunai, c.:mk: will beat out any follow up or will just punish the dash itself if he's too close. Usually when i tiger knee backwards in anticipation of a jump, i release it higher than usual so that they don't get lucky and jump over it.

Lookout for: Kazuyas jump round house has a lot of priority and leads to stupid damage, so be careful with anti-airing from the ground. it's safer to just go air-air or if you react too late just block.
How to deal with him: Kazuya's chains LP > MP > MK > LK(mid), LP>MP>MK, LP>MP>MP, deep oni kicks and slaughter hook are all punishable with c.:mk:(7 frame startup) > cross wind. It's a good idea to go into training mode and condition yourself to blocking these moves and punishing them accordingly

-By Ssj2jeff

Ken
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

King
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How to deal with it:

Kuro
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How to deal with it:

Kuma
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How to deal with it:

Law
Game plan:

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How to deal with it:

Lili
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How to deal with it:


M. Bison
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Marduk
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How to deal with it:


Megaman
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Nina
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Ogre
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Pac-man
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Paul
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Poison
Game plan:

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Rolento
Game plan:

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Rufus
Game plan:

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Ryu
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Sagat
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Steve
Game plan:

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Toro
Game plan:

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Vega
Game plan:

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Xiaoyu
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Yoshimitsu
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Zangief
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You keep it stylish? I keep it broken.
UMvC3 - #1 Vergil, Frank, Wesker - #2 Dante, Dormammu, Wesker
FUC - Sakura&Shiro TvC - Batsu/Ippatsuman

Comments

  • xZephyrxxZephyrx Joined: Posts: 65
    Reserved

    You keep it stylish? I keep it broken.
    UMvC3 - #1 Vergil, Frank, Wesker - #2 Dante, Dormammu, Wesker
    FUC - Sakura&Shiro TvC - Batsu/Ippatsuman
  • xZephyrxxZephyrx Joined: Posts: 65
    Reserved

    You keep it stylish? I keep it broken.
    UMvC3 - #1 Vergil, Frank, Wesker - #2 Dante, Dormammu, Wesker
    FUC - Sakura&Shiro TvC - Batsu/Ippatsuman
  • xZephyrxxZephyrx Joined: Posts: 65
    Reserved


    ---
    I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?rln0yh
    You keep it stylish? I keep it broken.

    UMvC3 - Dante(crystal), Vergil(Judgment Cut), Amaterasu(Cold Star)/Magneto(Disruptor/Hyper Grav)
    C. Viper(Seismo), Amaterasu(Cold Star), X-23(Ankle Slice)

    You keep it stylish? I keep it broken.
    UMvC3 - #1 Vergil, Frank, Wesker - #2 Dante, Dormammu, Wesker
    FUC - Sakura&Shiro TvC - Batsu/Ippatsuman
  • xZephyrxxZephyrx Joined: Posts: 65
    Reserved

    You keep it stylish? I keep it broken.
    UMvC3 - #1 Vergil, Frank, Wesker - #2 Dante, Dormammu, Wesker
    FUC - Sakura&Shiro TvC - Batsu/Ippatsuman
  • ssj2jeffssj2jeff Joined: Posts: 701
    i guess i'll drop a little knowlege on the match ups i feel comfortable with.

    Kazuya
    i think this match up is pretty straight forward. i mix up between ground kunais from outside his jump in range and tiger knee backwards kunais. if you mist step the grounded or air kunai, low foward will beat out any follow up or will just punish the dash itself if he's too close. usually when i tiger knee backwards in anticipation of a jump, i release it higher than usual so that they don't get lucky and jump over it.

    kazuyas jump round house has a lot of priority and leads to stupid damage, so be careful with anti-airing from the ground. it's safer to just go air-air or if you react too late just block.
    kazuyas chains LP > MP > MK > LK(mid), LP>MP>MK, LP>MP>MP, deap oni kicks and slaughter hook are all punishable with low forward > cross wind. it's a good idea to go into training mode and condition yourself to blocking these moves and punishing them accordingly
    Min: have you heard of Bible Black
    Spooky: have you seen my hard drive
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  • ssj2jeffssj2jeff Joined: Posts: 701
    Hugo
    imo this is a basic 10-0 match in ravens favor. i play this match up almost everyday so i think i have it down to a science now.

    Zoning game:
    hugo can't crouch block low tiger knee kunais so in a neutral state hugo will take alot of chip trying to close the gap. if he crouch blocks a tiger knee kunai from a distance and you recover as he blocked it, you can throw a grounded heavy kunai and it will catch his prejump(with enough hugo practice you'll know the timing). if your anticipating a jump you can also release your tiger knee kunais a little higher or just nuetral jump kunai. the idea is to keep hugo out without backing up into the corner.

    footsie game:
    if hugo is within poking distance with meter you should be wary of tiger kneeing a kunai because he can ex back breaker through it.

    if hugo gets within poking he will more than likely do 3 things: low short > to clap nonsense, dash up if he is just outside low short or jump. all you have to do is stand your ground and react accordingly. if he dash you low foward cross wind, if he jumps you anti air with low strong or go air-air and if he does low shorts you low block. you do NOT play footsies with him, raven can't whiff punish hugos low short. if you have space behind you and the hugo hesitates, it would probably be a good idea to kunai>teleport back with kicks( I don't do this too often but it can get you out of jail for free).

    hugos wake up options:
    unlike traditional grapplers, hugos wake up game is actually weaker than what it seems on the surface. his lariat, ex lariat, command throw and ex command throw are all throwable. so if your in his face and you anticipate a wake of any sort throw him. don't jump away because he will probably backbreaker you or catch you with lariat. if they're desperate they may wake up super

    bad situations:
    if your stuck in a situation where he's doing low short clap> low short clap just block and look for the low short> lariet dash cancel. he is actually negative when he does that and you can low jab> low forward> crosswind punish it before the 360 comes out. if he's going clap happy and you have space you can backdash in between the low short clap and there's nothing hugo can do about it.

    if he's doing the spamming cross up jump splats, just do your best to block it and when your back is facing the side of the stage with the most space your backdash and teleport after blocking the splat.

    if your backed up into a corner good luck. if you think he's gonna throw do a reversal ex alter ego(with LK+HK); otherwise use an alpha counter. if i get knocked down in the corner by hugo i tend to roll foward and teleport away.

    also be wary of his chained overheads.

    i play extremely lame so usually i don't go in on hugo until i land an anti air, low forward crosswind or i knock him out of the air with an air kunai.
    Min: have you heard of Bible Black
    Spooky: have you seen my hard drive
    :avatar by benski:
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭✭
    6-4? If this match is 6-4 then Raven loses to 80% of the cast.
  • ssj2jeffssj2jeff Joined: Posts: 701
    i don't get that statement. if you don't think raven beats hugo what does that have to do with any other match up.
    Min: have you heard of Bible Black
    Spooky: have you seen my hard drive
    :avatar by benski:
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What I'm saying is that if that is what a 6-4 matchup looks like Raven absolutely sucks vs. the rest of the cast because I don't think there is any other matchup where he can impose as much of his will on a character as he can vs. Hugo. If being able to impose that much of his gameplan means he's only 6-4 vs. Hugo, then he's way worse off vs. every other character because that is far and away his best matchup.

    It's probably 8-2 or 9-1 Raven.
  • ssj2jeffssj2jeff Joined: Posts: 701
    i could understand 7-3 possibly but the match definitely isn't 8-2 or 9-1. if hugo scores a knock down, backs you in the corner or makes a good read; he can do crazy damage. it's not impossible for hugo to win.
    Min: have you heard of Bible Black
    Spooky: have you seen my hard drive
    :avatar by benski:
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭✭
    how does he do those things? Hope you mess up? Get lucky? Hope you sneeze and drop your stick?

    Like honestly if you think this matchup is borderline 7-3 at max you are doing something wrong with Raven.
  • EvilDave219EvilDave219 Joined: Posts: 180 ✭✭✭
    Raven versus Hugo is the most lopsided matchup in the game by far. Hugo is the only character that cannot crouch under a TK Shuriken if thrown low enough to the ground, and his large hitbox means it's nearly impossible for him to jump over them. If you are 3/4ths to full screen away from Hugo, there is literally nothing he can do about runaway TK Shuriken. If you are closer to him where Backbreaker can catch you, then ground shuriken xx back teleport will let you create enough space, and lets you fully punish Hugo if he used Backbreaker. Because Hugo can't crouch air shurikens, he is completely free to 50/50 teleport mixups since he can't mash crouching jab when you teleport.

    If you're playing against Hugo, it's backwards TK Shurikens all day while teleporting occasionally so you don't get into the corner/go for a mixup once in a while. You shouldn't try anything else because there's nothing Hugo can do.

    If you're playing the matchup right, Hugo's only chance is to have another character tag him in on a combo so he can be right up in your face, and unless you're in the corner he can't do anything for wakeup pressure since Raven's teleport lets him get out for free.

    It's seriously bordering on a 9-1 matchup. Hugo is 100% free to Raven.
    XBL/PSN - EvilDave219
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  • NeoBloodNeoBlood kara bank account Joined: Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭
    Well maybe you just havent fought a good Hugo Veserius, but yeah I'd say its 7-3ish. The biggest problem for Raven against Hugo is his jumping grab. Everything else is pretty easy, but Hugo can use his chargeable special as a focus attack, absorb a ninja star and move forward a bit. He has ways of getting in, and Raven's teleport isnt quite as good as Akuma's (especially in the corner) but if you play well and just don't screw up, its an easy matchup.
  • VeseriusVeserius Hold Down Back Joined: Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well maybe you just havent fought a good Hugo Veserius
    haha

    I assure you I have.
  • EvilDave219EvilDave219 Joined: Posts: 180 ✭✭✭
    Easiest way to tell if a Hugo player is good?

    They swap out Hugo immediately once Raven appears on screen.
    XBL/PSN - EvilDave219
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  • ssj2jeffssj2jeff Joined: Posts: 701
    anyways off the topic of dick size, anyone have advise vs rufus.
    Min: have you heard of Bible Black
    Spooky: have you seen my hard drive
    :avatar by benski:
  • calvinguycalvinguy Joined: Posts: 9
    I play both raven and hugo, I'd say the matchup is 8-2 for Raven. Honestly I think Raven is the best character in the game, I don't know what the developers were thinking when they made him.

    Hes got a damn horizontal air projectile which pretty much dominates jumpers in what I would consider a pretty jump dominate game.

    3 frame jabs that are +4 on block?? Thats absolutely ridiculous. Not to mention his teleports, high low mixups and just general high damage with his cr. hp loops.

    I don't think he has a bad match up in this game. Hes a beast up close and his keep away game is one of the best.
  • NeoBloodNeoBlood kara bank account Joined: Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭
    anyways off the topic of dick size, anyone have advise vs rufus.


    Honestly I have no idea what to do against a good Rufus. There's little things like stopping dive kicks with st.LP I believe, and baiting ex Messiah since he can be hit out of the middle of it now, but other than that, his range is ridiculous, and everything he throws out seems like a frame trap.
  • SardaSarda Joined: Posts: 498
    Ok, so one of our local players is using some really nice strings with Hwoarang that are giving me quite some trouble.

    So, if there anybody here also maining Hwoarang, I hope I can get some help:

    1. Whenever I used b.MK (just the first part) to bait a jump-in punish from him (people jump expecting a long recovery from Raven's b.MK strings, so I just throw some b.MK to get them jumping) he used a long poke with Hwoarang that really impressed me on how far it reached. I tested in training and it seems his s.MP really reaches wayyyy out, and he can tekken chain into combo. Is s.MP his go-to long footsies option? Any idea on how to counter it?

    2. Now, I just found out Hwoarang has a chain and a command overhead. The command is a fake one and the chainable is the right one. From the guide, it seems his chained overhead leaves him at -8 on Block. So, any ideas on how can Raven punish it?

    Thanks guys! I'll keep on practicing as well and if I find anything by myself I'll let you guys know. See ya!


    As for Rufus:

    c.MP is an awesome anti-air against him. If you're really far away throwing shoryukens, you can anti-air him from quite a long distance if he ever tries do Dive Kick. But, if he jumps witout diving, you'll have to change timing. When anti-airing him in long distances, you can cancel the c.MP into a Shuriken and cancel it into a back teleport. But if by any chance you misjudge the spacing the Shuriken might whiff leaving him in a great punish position. This can happen for Raven against any character, so lookout for raw c.mp and c.mp into shuriken, use them wisely.

    It seems s.LP can hit rufus after a Dive Kick so many times. I'm still testing, but im either hitting my opponents before they press a button or I'm counter hitting them really often. But, mistiming it may lead you to be counter-hit so I still need to test this and even check staff in frame data.
    XBL: Guilherme Sarda
    Brazilian Fighting Games Community

    http://www.twitter.com/guisarda
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  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭
    Ok, so one of our local players is using some really nice strings with Hwoarang that are giving me quite some trouble.

    So, if there anybody here also maining Hwoarang, I hope I can get some help:

    1. Whenever I used b.MK (just the first part) to bait a jump-in punish from him (people jump expecting a long recovery from Raven's b.MK strings, so I just throw some b.MK to get them jumping) he used a long poke with Hwoarang that really impressed me on how far it reached. I tested in training and it seems his s.MP really reaches wayyyy out, and he can tekken chain into combo. Is s.MP his go-to long footsies option? Any idea on how to counter it?

    2. Now, I just found out Hwoarang has a chain and a command overhead. The command is a fake one and the chainable is the right one. From the guide, it seems his chained overhead leaves him at -8 on Block. So, any ideas on how can Raven punish it?
    1. Yes, it's his main footsies tool, and there's not much you can do about it if you're not playing a character like Vega who can out-range him. You'll have to bait him to whiff it by walking out of range and then punishing the whiff. Alternatively, you can walk into its range and block, and if he chains into HP, use your frame advantage to walk forward into your poking range.

    2. A good Hwoarang player doesn't really use the overhead string (because it's slow and unsafe), but you should be able to punish it with a crouching MK.
    #SFxT @ Rizon - It's better than SRK
  • SardaSarda Joined: Posts: 498
    Thanks a lot man! I tested the overhead and it really is punishable by c.MK, you just have to be on point with your timing. The trick is to press the button right after he hits you, you can't wait until he finishes the move.

    I have some gripes against the character but I can't remember everything now, gonna keep on practicing.
    XBL: Guilherme Sarda
    Brazilian Fighting Games Community

    http://www.twitter.com/guisarda
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • xZephyrxxZephyrx Joined: Posts: 65
    Updated with Ssj2jeffs writups on Kazuya & hugo and yes hugo is effing FREE no matter how good the person is as long as you dont suck with raven lol

    Im interested in Dhalsim and Rufus matchups... i have yet to beat a team using dhalsim yet rufus i can manage. Every dhalsim team ive delt with was a really good player and understood spazing and zoning very well

    You keep it stylish? I keep it broken.
    UMvC3 - #1 Vergil, Frank, Wesker - #2 Dante, Dormammu, Wesker
    FUC - Sakura&Shiro TvC - Batsu/Ippatsuman
  • ssj2jeffssj2jeff Joined: Posts: 701
    i play dahlsim pretty often too and it can be annoying depending on how the opponent plays. for instance, sim s.lk is 3 frames, it has surprising low range, it's unwhiff punishable and when he chains it to s.mk>s.hp he's fucking safe, unless you have a 2 frame super like julia or ken. so in the middle of my blockstrings he would just throw it out. if it hits he brings in hugo and does stupid damage if it's blocked he's safe.

    so i finally figured out the answer to beat this; ravens f.mk. used as a tech trap it will go over sims and on counter hit you can combo s.lp.

    as for the nuetral/zoning games. it's pretty straight foward if you have the lead sim can't do much to come back, so you just maintain your lead and chip away at him slowly. i use alot of neutral jump shurikens, and grounding shurikens.

    -if he does a low tiger knee teleport, you can jab it.
    -if he jumps and teleports, you can jump at him and j.mk.
    -if he does yoga fireball teleport, you nuetral jump j.mk.
    -if you throw a ground shuriken just before he throws his yoga fireball you can teleport foward and punish it.
    -you can sweep his limbs.
    -jab>sweep option select still works for backdashs. if he blocks the sweep won't come out as long as you didn't plink it too early.

    my main sparring partner plays sim/hugo so i have pretty decent experience with it. i have a few notes on the hworang match up too, i'll post that later
    Min: have you heard of Bible Black
    Spooky: have you seen my hard drive
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