Skullgirls Gameplay Discussion Thanks For Playing

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  • BoodendorfBoodendorf Imposing your will is a matter of strength. Joined: Posts: 1,473

    What I'm interested in is, I'm reading between the lines in the wiki that every hit scales independently, so multi-hitting moves basically rape your scaling. Is this a universal rule that every hit that registers on the combo counter scales once (except throw starters)?

    Also, does this apply even to multihitting supers? Trying to think what the optimal way to abuse the DHC scaling reset is, is it best to whiff the actual super so you get an limited scaling combo after, or just let it rip.

    Its slightly annoying the scaling is variable, so I can't make good rules of thumb like in SF4 series (where if an attack does less that 10% of the damage of the combo, it should be removed from the scaling part to optimize damage).
    Scaling=
    1.00000 0.85000 0.72250 0.61412 0.52201 0.44371 0.37715 0.32058 0.27249 0.23162 0.19687 0.16734 0.14224

    DHCScaling=
    0.80000 0.68000 0.57800 0.49130 0.41761 0.35496 0.30172 0.25646 0.21799 0.18529 0.15750 0.13387
    Don't forget that some assists might scale an insanely lot your damages. Like Cerebella's Diamond drop gets your directly to 15% damages. I didn't try with other assists but I believe it's only with command grabs.
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  • worldjem7worldjem7 Seven World Jems Joined: Posts: 544
    What I'm interested in is, I'm reading between the lines in the wiki that every hit scales independently, so multi-hitting moves basically rape your scaling. Is this a universal rule that every hit that registers on the combo counter scales once (except throw starters)?

    Yes, damage scaling is constant and universal for every move. How far in the combo you are determines how scaled the combo is and throws freeze scaling until the entire throw has completed.

    The first 3 hits in a combo do full damage then the 4th hit will be 85% and so on with compounded scaling.

    I made a damage scaling calculator on excel last fall for SG because the scaling is that simple.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtQ_t4ERdHBLdHpOU0JRd2tSekt1ZVdzSHc3LUdtUWc

    I think there's only one special rule outside of DHCs resetting scaling to 80% and that's Cerebella's 360 super. I forget the details but under some condition, the last hit will only do half damage.
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    I think there's only one special rule outside of DHCs resetting scaling to 80% and that's Cerebella's 360 super. I forget the details but under some condition, the last hit will only do half damage.
    Throwing off stagger like her sMP or Run > Throw
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  • AmigoOneAmigoOne Joined: Posts: 1,194
    Just a curious question. Why doesn't Mike Z give us frame data on skullgirls? Do you think he should or shouldn't?
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    Just a curious question. Why doesn't Mike Z give us frame data on skullgirls? Do you think he should or shouldn't?
    Who do you think is giving us frame data on the wiki? it not him, himself but someone close to the project he's allowing to do it.

    He had something to compile all the frame data but it broke.

    There's also the hitstun and blockstun bars in the training mode.
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,720
    Who do you think is giving us frame data on the wiki? it not him, himself but someone close to the project he's allowing to do it.

    He had something to compile all the frame data but it broke.

    There's also the hitstun and blockstun bars in the training mode.


    iirc he said that pizzarino was ironmanning the frame data down just like how the guide people do it... time consumng ass process.

    it sucks that his old xbox broke with all the frames and stuff on it... but in the end though it isnt THAT needed, just something that helps.



    -dime
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • AndoTheCommandoAndoTheCommando Sorry I'm late! Joined: Posts: 2,688
    I've discovered that Cerebella can cancel her AA grab with Showstopper. You jump, you get grabbed. You stay grounded, you get grabbed. Have fun with that.
    "If I can't beat it, it's probably broken."- Ben Perkins
  • AndoTheCommandoAndoTheCommando Sorry I'm late! Joined: Posts: 2,688
    Just a curious question. Why doesn't Mike Z give us frame data on skullgirls? Do you think he should or shouldn't?
    Pizzarino is working on acquiring the frame data for the wiki. Not sure what his progress is though.
    "If I can't beat it, it's probably broken."- Ben Perkins
  • shiningnegroshiningnegro Joined: Posts: 1,289
    I've discovered that Cerebella can cancel her AA grab with Showstopper. You jump, you get grabbed. You stay grounded, you get grabbed. Have fun with that.

    God damn that is scary tech right there
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  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    Pizzarino is working on acquiring the frame data for the wiki. Not sure what his progress is though.
    3/8 characters have frame data for their normals up

    Filia
    Valentine
    Cerebella
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  • AndoTheCommandoAndoTheCommando Sorry I'm late! Joined: Posts: 2,688
    3/8 characters have frame data for their normals up
    Wow, very impressive. I didn't think it would come out this fast. Pizzarino is a workhorse.
    "If I can't beat it, it's probably broken."- Ben Perkins
  • The DukeThe Duke Joined: Posts: 14,564
    I've discovered that Cerebella can cancel her AA grab with Showstopper. You jump, you get grabbed. You stay grounded, you get grabbed. Have fun with that.
    I believe any special can cancel into super. I remember NerdJosh using the runstop to cancel into Showstopper during Powerup
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    The point where your combo starts giving the victim more meter than you gain from seems to be around 20-30 hits, maybe/likely character dependent.
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  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,286
    What are the Vulnerability frames on assists? There are times where I can punish dat ass or Napalm Pillar before it happens. Punishing it before it happens feels like a carp shoot.
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  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    What are the Vulnerability frames on assists? There are times where I can punish dat ass or Napalm Pillar before it happens. Punishing it before it happens feels like a carp shoot.
    2 frames of vulnerability on any and all assists before they go into start up.
    You did not go back in time, this is how the forums look.
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  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,286
    2 frames of vulnerability on any and all assists before they go into start up.

    That short? No wonder it feels inconsistent. The more I know
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  • KayEyeDeeKayEyeDee Play what you like. Joined: Posts: 1,781
    to whoever was talking about DHC glitches, if you do showstopper with bella, and DHC into valentines knives right after the last hit, the knives will whiff and you will recover in time to do a full combo with Val before they hit the ground.
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    to whoever was talking about DHC glitches, if you do showstopper with bella, and DHC into valentines knives right after the last hit, the knives will whiff and you will recover in time to do a full combo with Val before they hit the ground.
    It's not a glitch, scaling going back up to 80% is intentional.

    Meter scaling doesn't reset though, just damage and the opponent can get a lot of meter from long combos. Just saying.
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  • KayEyeDeeKayEyeDee Play what you like. Joined: Posts: 1,781
    if you kill em, it doesnt matter how much meter they get.

    also, I wasnt saying that it was a glitch, i just used that term because functionally, it works the same way as the DHC glitch in marvel, which makes it easier to explain.
  • HellfromaboveHellfromabove Joined: Posts: 2,575 mod
    Thread now stickied. Meant to do it sooner, but I guess it slipped my mind.

    -Tha Hindu
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    if you kill em, it doesnt matter how much meter they get.

    also, I wasnt saying that it was a glitch, i just used that term because functionally, it works the same way as the DHC glitch in marvel, which makes it easier to explain.
    Unless it's their final character on a team, it does matter.

    And when someone tried to show off the results of using the DHC, it took 4 meters to kill. Meter gained during a combo scales HARD, I think I saw one combo build 2 bars and the opponent gained 3+ bars. Mike made sure you're better off going for resets.
    You did not go back in time, this is how the forums look.
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  • 4r54r5 FIGHTAN VIDYA GAEMS Joined: Posts: 2,579
    Question. Landing recovery?
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  • tatakitataki misplaced Joined: Posts: 7,699
    Question. Landing recovery?
    If you used a move then yes, and a lot of it. If the opponent isn't stuck in blockstun as you land expect to be punished. I don't know if everything has the same landing recovery though.
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  • BoodendorfBoodendorf Imposing your will is a matter of strength. Joined: Posts: 1,473
    If you used a move then yes, and a lot of it. If the opponent isn't stuck in blockstun as you land expect to be punished. I don't know if everything has the same landing recovery though.
    I'm pretty sure air moves have different landing recovery. I have much better results using filia's IAD j.lk than j.hp/j.hk.
    "‎I don't know if you've ever let someone down, got your ass kicked or straight up failed. But those are the moments that define us. They push you further than you've ever thought possible, and force you to make choices. No matter what the cost." — Cole MacGrath
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  • chachadesmondchachadesmond this micropenis is destroying my life Joined: Posts: 237
    iirc he said that pizzarino was ironmanning the frame data down just like how the guide people do it... time consumng ass process.

    it isnt in the design specs? thats a little worrying
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    You did not go back in time, this is how the forums look.
    "You are all just as bad as the people you hate. You're only interested in characters based on tears." - Since1717
    NO STREAM = DEAD GAME
    PSN: X_the_Genius | GGPO: Mr X | Skype: MisterEcks
  • Honor BasquiatHonor Basquiat Joined: Posts: 1,391

    Cool stuff (especially the Ms Fortune thing), but not nearly as easy to deal with when George is flying at the air, running on the ground, item drop is falling is, avery is coming out and Peacock teleports behind you.
    Marvel 3: Super Skrull/Taskmaster/Felicia Skullgirls: Valentine/Parasoul

    If you are a member of the fighting game community and you aren't play Skullgirls you're doing it wrong.
  • tatakitataki misplaced Joined: Posts: 7,699
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    You did not go back in time, this is how the forums look.
    "You are all just as bad as the people you hate. You're only interested in characters based on tears." - Since1717
    NO STREAM = DEAD GAME
    PSN: X_the_Genius | GGPO: Mr X | Skype: MisterEcks
  • ArachnofiendArachnofiend Double Uzis and a Wink Joined: Posts: 2,058
    2. As of the moment of this writing, solo characters cannot handle teams. This is because blocking while spamming a DP assist that will grants you a full combo requires 0 risk, thought and effort, (think about week 1 Haggar and Tron assists) while dealing with such a tactic as a solo character will require to actually experiment and explore.
    Sounds like somebody doesn't know what he's talking about and is just bitching that he has to learn two characters to play this game properly.
    Skullgirls: Peacock/Parasoul Marvel 2: BB Hood/Juggernaut/Ruby Heart Marvel 3: Tron/Strange/Skrull BlazBlue CSE: Hazama Vampire Savior: BB Hood
  • Honor BasquiatHonor Basquiat Joined: Posts: 1,391
    I'm curious what team, as in pair, has the best synergy and why?
    Marvel 3: Super Skrull/Taskmaster/Felicia Skullgirls: Valentine/Parasoul

    If you are a member of the fighting game community and you aren't play Skullgirls you're doing it wrong.
  • worldjem7worldjem7 Seven World Jems Joined: Posts: 544
    Good synergy is the result of three things:
    1. each character on the team having an assist that properly benefits the point character, regardless of which one is out at any given time.
    2. each character on the team has a good super to DHC into that either allows for followups, keeps the character safe, sets up nicely, etc.
    3. each character on the team being able to combo into or out of tag-ins or having some benefit from doing it in a combo that allows for nice followups, setups for DHC, etc.
    The closer you are to having all three or at least some sort of variant of these, the better your team synergy is. Of course, you have to be a good enough player to be able to pull it off, but some characters limit team synergy by the nature of the character itself.

    One example would be Parasoul (Napalm Pillar), Peacock (George's Day Out).

    Peacock's Walking bomb assust (george's day out) complements Parasoul's ground game immensely because her napalm shots sometimes go over characters, while Parasoul's Napalm Pillar helps Peacock's zoning game by giving her a better "get-off-me" move that she can also combo after.

    Another example is Ms. Fortune and Parasoul for DHCing as if MF does her Purrzerker Purrage [headless] it hits the opponent behind her, which is a nice setup for a DHC into Parasoul's Bike super.

    Just off the top of my head.
  • ArachnofiendArachnofiend Double Uzis and a Wink Joined: Posts: 2,058
    Peacock/Double/Parasoul is one of if not the most... synergetic? teams in the game. All three characters get a lot of mileage out of each other's assists and you get a full screen DHC regardless of team order.
    Skullgirls: Peacock/Parasoul Marvel 2: BB Hood/Juggernaut/Ruby Heart Marvel 3: Tron/Strange/Skrull BlazBlue CSE: Hazama Vampire Savior: BB Hood
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    I'm curious what team, as in pair, has the best synergy and why?
    Depends who you ask.
    You did not go back in time, this is how the forums look.
    "You are all just as bad as the people you hate. You're only interested in characters based on tears." - Since1717
    NO STREAM = DEAD GAME
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  • Honor BasquiatHonor Basquiat Joined: Posts: 1,391
    Depends who you ask.

    Your thoughts?
    Marvel 3: Super Skrull/Taskmaster/Felicia Skullgirls: Valentine/Parasoul

    If you are a member of the fighting game community and you aren't play Skullgirls you're doing it wrong.
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    Your thoughts?
    I play Fortune/Parasoul and wanted to since they were announced. Like 2 peas in a pod.

    I will mess around with more pairs I think will work well together as soon as exams are over.
    You did not go back in time, this is how the forums look.
    "You are all just as bad as the people you hate. You're only interested in characters based on tears." - Since1717
    NO STREAM = DEAD GAME
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  • Honor BasquiatHonor Basquiat Joined: Posts: 1,391
    Parasoul I really think is one of the best anchors in the game because Napalm Pillar helps everyone, as does her overhead assist and she's one of the best solo characters in the game because she has a ton of tools and she has her roman cancel egret to extend her combos and make herself safe.
    Marvel 3: Super Skrull/Taskmaster/Felicia Skullgirls: Valentine/Parasoul

    If you are a member of the fighting game community and you aren't play Skullgirls you're doing it wrong.
  • BoodendorfBoodendorf Imposing your will is a matter of strength. Joined: Posts: 1,473
    So did you guys found more counters against Double when she cancel an unsafe attack/safe blockstrings into cattelite? So far I only managed to get Cerebella's360 to punish her ouroboros.
    "‎I don't know if you've ever let someone down, got your ass kicked or straight up failed. But those are the moments that define us. They push you further than you've ever thought possible, and force you to make choices. No matter what the cost." — Cole MacGrath
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  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,720
    in this game its KINDA hard to find teams with bad synergy as long as you put one of the "team" characters on your team.

    team characters are in my mind characters that have flat linear fullscreen supers (many characters in the game have this) a good assist that is either lockdown or gtfo (many characters have one... or the other)

    basically if you just combine those attributes you can pretty easily at least come up with a team that desnt hamper itself with bad snergy.

    the character that seem to have the "least" amount of homogenous synergy are val, painwheel, and MF in that order for me. which basically means that its harder to put those characters in the middle or anchor spot and make them work, and when they are in first slot, there teams require a little more team finesse in order to not be detrimental.


    but seriously if you take these characters next characters throw them in, in any random order and choose smart assist for there order... you'll probably make a good team:

    cerebella (hardest part of putting cerebella on a team is her supes can lack range... but this certainly isnt a big problem as most dhcs that ive seen leave the opponent close),filia,double,parasoul, peacock

    damn near any order of the aforementioned characters can work cause they have a decent amount of homogenization across supers and lockdown or gtfo assists.

    lets try it:

    filia,peacock,cerebella: i picked this team in just under 10 secs and tried to go against conventional wisdom which would make the team order something like

    peacock,filia,cerebella

    anywho filia,peacock, cerebella:

    filia can dhc into peacock easily, filia can also use peacock st.hp assist for upclose lockdown or as a ranged tool. filia can use cerebellas copter for lockdown which would free up peacock for qcf+lp gtfo assist. alternatively using st.hp from peacock for lockdown and using cerebellas armor charge as a gtfo would also work and would probably be better for the team overall if filia dies and peacock needs to come in. filias assist could be either hk hairball or updo and both would work. dhc synergy is there except maybe for dhcx3... which isnt used much anywyas but is still a weakness when needing to be used at fullscreen...



    bla bla bla... finding good teams isnt hard on this game... not yet anyways. it may become harder and harder as more and more characters come into play via dlc, cause theres more and more chances that some duo/trio team will have AMAZNG synergy which will raise the bar on what "good" synergy is.

    right now though? just throw some characters on a team, congratulations, your team is solid.


    -dime
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • Honor BasquiatHonor Basquiat Joined: Posts: 1,391
    in this game its KINDA hard to find teams with bad synergy as long as you put one of the "team" characters on your team.

    team characters are in my mind characters that have flat linear fullscreen supers (many characters in the game have this) a good assist that is either lockdown or gtfo (many characters have one... or the other)

    basically if you just combine those attributes you can pretty easily at least come up with a team that desnt hamper itself with bad snergy.

    the character that seem to have the "least" amount of homogenous synergy are val, painwheel, and MF in that order for me. which basically means that its harder to put those characters in the middle or anchor spot and make them work, and when they are in first slot, there teams require a little more team finesse in order to not be detrimental.


    but seriously if you take these characters next characters throw them in, in any random order and choose smart assist for there order... you'll probably make a good team:

    cerebella (hardest part of putting cerebella on a team is her supes can lack range... but this certainly isnt a big problem as most dhcs that ive seen leave the opponent close),filia,double,parasoul, peacock

    damn near any order of the aforementioned characters can work cause they have a decent amount of homogenization across supers and lockdown or gtfo assists.

    lets try it:

    filia,peacock,cerebella: i picked this team in just under 10 secs and tried to go against conventional wisdom which would make the team order something like

    peacock,filia,cerebella

    anywho filia,peacock, cerebella:

    filia can dhc into peacock easily, filia can also use peacock st.hp assist for upclose lockdown or as a ranged tool. filia can use cerebellas copter for lockdown which would free up peacock for qcf+lp gtfo assist. alternatively using st.hp from peacock for lockdown and using cerebellas armor charge as a gtfo would also work and would probably be better for the team overall if filia dies and peacock needs to come in. filias assist could be either hk hairball or updo and both would work. dhc synergy is there except maybe for dhcx3... which isnt used much anywyas but is still a weakness when needing to be used at fullscreen...



    bla bla bla... finding good teams isnt hard on this game... not yet anyways. it may become harder and harder as more and more characters come into play via dlc, cause theres more and more chances that some duo/trio team will have AMAZNG synergy which will raise the bar on what "good" synergy is.

    right now though? just throw some characters on a team, congratulations, your team is solid.


    -dime

    Excellent analysis as always dime, I do feel that Painwheel is a character with less synergy potential than most characters, primarily because frankly I feel her assist options are weaker than the rest of the cast. I also would agree that Ms Fortune doesn't have the best DHC options, but I think Valentine actually has some really good ones.

    Valentine/Parasoul seem to work really well together because Valentine can hit confirm from Napalm Pillar and get big damage. But hey, that's just my team.
    Marvel 3: Super Skrull/Taskmaster/Felicia Skullgirls: Valentine/Parasoul

    If you are a member of the fighting game community and you aren't play Skullgirls you're doing it wrong.
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