Skullgirls Gameplay Discussion Thanks For Playing

Mr. X

Gen Dis is not very gameplay-related
Tier Thread is locked

Here's where we discuss gameplay, matchups, tactics and all that sweet, juicy stuff.

Quick Resources:
Weights

Spoiler:

Character Weights, not adjusted for boobie size

Lightest to Heaviest

Peacock
Painwheel
Ms. Fortune
Filia
Valentine
Parasoul
Cerebella
Double

Health and Damage Distribution

Spoiler:

Useful Links
Skullgirls Character Directory
Skullgirls Wiki on SRK

DevilJin 01

Yeah as long as we can talk about the characters based in matchups and strategies that should work.

Mr. X

Interesting tidbit I've found mentioned on the forum that is probably lost:

Super Jump turns you towards your opponent if you cross up.

So if you do a super jump instant airdash, when you cross up you'll turn towards the opponent.

Another important nuance:

Mike_Z, post: 6807229, member: 504 wrote:

Not having to reverse your inputs to compensate for a move crossing up during itself is intentional, that way you don't ever get the wrong move if you cancel early/late.

Example would be doing Valentine's Savage Bypass into Checkmate Incision/EKG Flatliner where you do both quarter circle forward motions in the same direction.

Boodendorf

Mr. X, post: 6808255, member: 7367 wrote:

Interesting tidbit I've found mentioned on the forum that is probably lost:

Super Jump turns you towards your opponent if you cross up.
So if you do a super jump instant airdash, when you cross up you'll turn towards the opponent.

Oh my god I'm so gonna abuse the shit out of this with Filia. Thanks a bunch!

Unessential

Mr. X, post: 6808255, member: 7367 wrote:

Super Jump turns you towards your opponent if you cross up.

HOW IT SHOULD BE

As much as I love MvC3 (Not so much Ultimate, more so vanilla) it's one of the things I HATED about that game... how your character didn't turn to face your opponent in the air.

and regular jump shouldn't because that's how crossups should work, you need a hitbox that sortof goes behind the character.

If you Superjump they got more time to react (you're higher up) so that's your advantage for not needing to use a specific normal/space it properly...

As I was writing that I realized you could SJ air dash... but I think there's a height limit for air dashes so it wouldn't be *too* bad.... .... .... right?

edit: Filia is easy to handle normally anyway, I think she needs something like that...
Valentine.. her air dash makes her move diagonally upward right? hard to do a crossup I think...
Painwheel... does she have an air dash? or just a fly? painwheel's a pain to deal with she DOESN"T need something like that to help her, (I'm saying this loosely, there'll always be things discovered that can still change the balance of things)

Boodendorf

Unessential, post: 6808751, member: 7204 wrote:

As I was writing that I realized you could SJ air dash... but I think there's a height limit for air dashes so it wouldn't be *too* bad.... .... .... right?

I bet it will become scary with Valentine's crazy air normals.

Unessential

Boodendorf, post: 6808780, member: 41820 wrote:

I bet it will become scary with Valentine's crazy air normals.

oh? what crazy air normals does valentine have?

Arachnofiend

Unessential, post: 6808797, member: 7204 wrote:

oh? what crazy air normals does valentine have?

I know Body Bag is pretty damn incredible but I don't know enough about the character to say more.

Only air normals I need are SAY YA PWAYERS and DOWN HERE!

Boodendorf

Unessential, post: 6808797, member: 7204 wrote:

oh? what crazy air normals does valentine have?

Every of her air normals?
I don't play her but when I fight one they have like 4 or 5 air normal they use that have pretty good range/comes out fast/ are multihit.

Momochuu

How are Cerebella's DHCs?

Mr. X

Unessential, post: 6808751, member: 7204 wrote:

HOW IT SHOULD BE

As much as I love MvC3 (Not so much Ultimate, more so vanilla) it's one of the things I HATED about that game... how your character didn't turn to face your opponent in the air.

and regular jump shouldn't because that's how crossups should work, you need a hitbox that sortof goes behind the character.

If you Superjump they got more time to react (you're higher up) so that's your advantage for not needing to use a specific normal/space it properly...

As I was writing that I realized you could SJ air dash... but I think there's a height limit for air dashes so it wouldn't be *too* bad.... .... .... right?

edit: Filia is easy to handle normally anyway, I think she needs something like that...
Valentine.. her air dash makes her move diagonally upward right? hard to do a crossup I think...
Painwheel... does she have an air dash? or just a fly? painwheel's a pain to deal with she DOESN"T need something like that to help her, (I'm saying this loosely, there'll always be things discovered that can still change the balance of things)

I was doing it with Fortune, I think IAD is the same height restriction regardless if you jump or super jump.

Painwheel has no airdash.

Mr. X

Another important resource: Weights

Mike_Z, post: 6793446, member: 504 wrote:

For whoever posted that MMCafe weight vs boobs tier list, I fixed it for in-game weights (but did not adjust it for boobiness).

Character Weights, not adjusted for boobie size

Lightest to Heaviest

Peacock
Painwheel
Ms. Fortune
Filia
Valentine
Parasoul
Cerebella
Double

Macarratti

Momo~, post: 6808823, member: 36963 wrote:

How are Cerebella's DHCs?

Diamond dynamo is an excellent DHC starter and ender (provided the opponent isn't too far away). It deals good damage, has invincibility on startup, OTGs easily, has a huge ass hitbox, and even deals good chip if you make a mistake and hit them on block.

She can DHC out of showstopper on hit, but it already goes GDLK damage, so whether or not it's worth it is debatable. I cant remember how long you can wait before DHCing out of it though...

Her level 3 I could see being useful for if you make a fuck up, but it's risky due to the meter, and how it's damage without the first hit isn't as good as other lvl 3s. But it's got super armor out the ass, so there's that.

Mr. X

Damage/Health Distribution of Teams

worldjem7, post: 6806487, member: 8433 wrote:

So, it turns out that because of the damage modifiers, the increased health from being on a team isn't as large as was once percieved.



For example: A combo that would do 8171 damage multiplied by 1.75 comes out to about 14300 damage.
Combo damage is very high, so it's feasible to calculate net health like this.

These are raw net healths. It doesn't account for recoverable damage, but I thought this was an interesting discovery. Recoverable damage would increase the net health of teams by a significant amount, but I can't really calculate it because it requires detailed match data that is not easy to obtain.

Boodendorf

Macarratti, post: 6808869, member: 24393 wrote:

She can DHC out of showstopper on hit, but it already goes GDLK damage, so whether or not it's worth it is debatable. I cant remember how long you can wait before DHCing out of it though...

You can dhc right after the last hit if you do it like, really goddamn fast.

Kayame

Do you guys feel the character specific combos are such a huge thing? It was speculated it would be

Boodendorf

Kayame, post: 6808982, member: 48363 wrote:

Do you guys feel the character specific combos are such a huge thing? It was speculated it would be

It doesn't really bother me that much.
Guess that must be because the Parasoul corner loop combo works on everyone as long as they're standing lol.
Edit: Wait I forgot, it actually KILLS ME for Filia ;_;.

The Duke

I just find it funny people complained that people "everyone always does the same combos" now they have a game where you have to learn and use different ones.

iinara

Kayame, post: 6808982, member: 48363 wrote:

Do you guys feel the character specific combos are such a huge thing? It was speculated it would be

yes and no
it's huge if you have to adjust your combo for every other char, but there isn't a lot of chars so it's not that bad and you could always try and learn a more universal combo if it's too much for you

OMG its a duck

Peacock + Double butt = My god...

Macarratti

OMG its a duck, post: 6809206, member: 37440 wrote:

Peacock + Double butt = My god...

I know right? That's one hell of a matchup, especially for solobella.

Anyone else face this combo of characters before? What's your gameplan and team for taking them down?

Unessential

Arachnofiend, post: 6808809, member: 63086 wrote:

I know Body Bag is pretty damn incredible but I don't know enough about the character to say more.

Only air normals I need are SAY YA PWAYERS and DOWN HERE!

Your right... the body bag is pretty sick... but that's not a normal... is it? thought it was a special...

Arachnofiend

Macarratti, post: 6809294, member: 24393 wrote:

I know right? That's one hell of a matchup, especially for solobella.

Anyone else face this combo of characters before? What's your gameplan and team for taking them down?

Teleport->Swag Bag.

Gets 'em every time. :U

XthAtGAm3RGuYX

Kayame, post: 6808982, member: 48363 wrote:

Do you guys feel the character specific combos are such a huge thing? It was speculated it would be

They can screw with filia pretty damn hard. I had to practice my best bnb with filia on every character specifically because some have weird airborne hitboxes which makes it easy to drop my combo :p

Hawkingbird

Macarratti, post: 6809294, member: 24393 wrote:

I know right? That's one hell of a matchup, especially for solobella.

Anyone else face this combo of characters before? What's your gameplan and team for taking them down?

I used that combo to make one of my friends ragequit the game. My other friend figure out that you can duck under the butt from an certain range. I'm not sure if that works for all versions of it though.

c_nul

Any dash (i think) can be cancelled at any time by a throw or special throw
That means it's easy and super effective to perform a kara throw in this game.

Forward dash xx LP+LK with Cerebella can catch people very far with the right timing. I didn't try with everyone though

The wiki explain that kara throw are hard to use in this game so i thought i can point this at least

AndoTheCommando

Stuff like canceling Titan Knuckle, Lock 'n' Load and the second hit of st. hk with her command throws makes Cerebella scary as fuck.

t1bz

So we all know the PeaDouble team is some serious shit, and I decided to main it for now cause my friends all play Val and/or Bella and I don't like dealing with that shit otherwise. My question is, what is Peacock's best assist for Double? I know Peacock is the main attraction here but it would be good to be able to fight with Double if she needs to regain life or something.

AndoTheCommando

t1bz wrote:

My question is, what is Peacock's best assist for Double? I know Peacock is the main attraction here but it would be good to be able to fight with Double if she needs to regain life or something.

You have a few options, st. hp, cr. hk, all versions of George, hp. Item drop just to name a few. Peacock doesn't have a USE THIS ABOVE ALL OTHERS assist so it really comes down to personal preference.

debs

as a filia player...I'm definitely not feeling the character specific bullshit.

Pertho

debs, post: 6812042, member: 5912 wrote:

as a filia player...I'm definitely not feeling the character specific bullshit.

I thought I had a combo that worked on everybody until Ms. Fortune. Soo mad right now at the cat lady.

RoGE9

Correct me if I am wrong.

Juggling tier list I made when practicing Valentine's Cr. HP > Jp. HP > Jp. HK (2 hits) xx Dash xx HP xx QCF+HK

Easy:
Double (her juggle hurtbox seems pretty wide and she falls down fast)
Filia
Cera
Parasoul

Average:
Painwheel
Peacock

kinda hard
Valentine (Not really sure why but she seems very floaty when I juggle her)

Hard
Ms. Fortune (Can't seem to hit her with the QCF+HK part at all)

Also, not really sure if this applies to the other characters or not but if it does then thats great.

harleywastaken

debs, post: 6812042, member: 5912 wrote:

as a filia player...I'm definitely not feeling the character specific bullshit.

as another Filia player... there's only eight characters. personally, nbd.

Arachnofiend

harleywastaken, post: 6812547, member: 14192 wrote:

as another Filia player... there's only eight characters. personally, nbd.

Just wait until the character roster gets bigger.

Boodendorf

RoGE9, post: 6812531, member: 7517 wrote:

.

Yeah Filia got a similar problem with her cr.hp loop:
(corner)s.lk, cr.mp, cr.hp, s.mp, cr.hp, s.mk, cr.hp xx whatever into super or something
It never works on Valentine and Fortune because they float too far away after cr.mp so cr.hp doesn't connect and doesn't work either on Double cause she falls too fast making ground bounce less effective after first cr.hp so no juggle afterward. It works really well on Peacock and seems to be working on Cerebella, Parasoul and Painwheel too.

Genow

we can do cr.MP > airdash j.MP > j.HK to restand double so hah, after the initial salt of everything being char specific, I figure I get to have more fun in the lab

Mr. X

UltraDavid, post: 6825112, member: 2303 wrote:

So, when you do a super, damage scaling resets to 80% regardless of what it was before. I think this is an unfortunate design choice, because it means that lots of teams will have 100% life combos. Wanna know how to get a super easy 15k combo?

Team: Cerebella/Valentine
Cost: 2 bars

--Bella does any hit, gets easy combo for 8.5k, end up in dynamo (armwheel super)
--Just after last hit of armwheel, DHC to Valentine EKG (kick super), Val super whiffs under opponent
--Opponent comes down from armwheel, Valentine gets juggle into simple 7k combo

It's basically dhc glitch from Marvel 3, except intentional and resets damage scaling only to 80% rather than 100%. All you have to do is find a set of supers where the 2nd character can come in and do an actual combo. I've only looked at Bella/Valentine so far because that's the team I've been playing, but I bet a ton of teams can do this kind of thing. DHC trick returns!

Firebranded

Good stuff.

joe2187

I have no problem with double assist, or peacock's zoning, I got that shit.

But rushdown Valentine simply destroys my ass, I play solo fortune, and I get utterly murdered by valentines far reaching jumping normals and crouching attacks, I try and punish stuff I know is punishable and in turn get murdered. I need some tips on this bish, FUCK THAT BODY BAG SHIT!

M3SS3NG3R

What's the specifics on quick rise? Can they be baited and punished?

Sometimes when I do a teachable OTG combo (yeah cuz I suck) and my opponent tries to quick rise and roll behind me he gets hit by my fierce punch instead. FP button press is part of the combo though it's meant to be a command normal. The roll however screws up the direction input and makes regular FP comes out. I can't tell if it's because my opponent is doing something when he gets hit or the roll is actually vulnerable though.

deice-

I'm curious about damage scaling. From wiki:

wiki wrote:

Attack damage scales down at a compounding 85% per hit after the 3nd hit in a combo. Damage scales to a mininum 25% for attacks with base damage of 1000 and above and 15% of base damage for hits under 1000 base damage. Throws with multiple hits keep the damage scaling of the first hit for the entire throw. Any combo after a throw scales damage as if the throw was a single hit. Minimum damage for any hit is 1 point.
Blockbuster Sequels reset damage scaling to 80% at the super flash. Projectiles have their scaled damage determined from when they hit, even if left on the screen during the additional super flash.

Compounding 85% means the scaling is:
100% 85% 72% 61% 52% 44% 38% 32% 27% 23% 20% 17% 15%

So on the 13th hit we've reached 15% scaling (and 10th hit reaches the 25% bottom for 1k+ attacks).

DHC's reset scaling to 80%. After a DHC the scaling goes:
80% 68% 58% 49% 42% 35% 30% 26% 22% 19% 16% 15%

So after DHC's, on the 12th hit we hit the 15% bottom scaling (9th hit for 25% for 1k+)

What I'm interested in is, I'm reading between the lines in the wiki that every hit scales independently, so multi-hitting moves basically rape your scaling. Is this a universal rule that every hit that registers on the combo counter scales once (except throw starters)?

Also, does this apply even to multihitting supers? Trying to think what the optimal way to abuse the DHC scaling reset is, is it best to whiff the actual super so you get an limited scaling combo after, or just let it rip.

Its slightly annoying the scaling is variable, so I can't make good rules of thumb like in SF4 series (where if an attack does less that 10% of the damage of the combo, it should be removed from the scaling part to optimize damage).

Spoiler:

Scaling=
1.00000 0.85000 0.72250 0.61412 0.52201 0.44371 0.37715 0.32058 0.27249 0.23162 0.19687 0.16734 0.14224

DHCScaling=
0.80000 0.68000 0.57800 0.49130 0.41761 0.35496 0.30172 0.25646 0.21799 0.18529 0.15750 0.13387

Boodendorf

deice-, post: 6831000, member: 21714 wrote:

What I'm interested in is, I'm reading between the lines in the wiki that every hit scales independently, so multi-hitting moves basically rape your scaling. Is this a universal rule that every hit that registers on the combo counter scales once (except throw starters)?

Also, does this apply even to multihitting supers? Trying to think what the optimal way to abuse the DHC scaling reset is, is it best to whiff the actual super so you get an limited scaling combo after, or just let it rip.

Its slightly annoying the scaling is variable, so I can't make good rules of thumb like in SF4 series (where if an attack does less that 10% of the damage of the combo, it should be removed from the scaling part to optimize damage).

Spoiler:

Scaling=
1.00000 0.85000 0.72250 0.61412 0.52201 0.44371 0.37715 0.32058 0.27249 0.23162 0.19687 0.16734 0.14224

DHCScaling=
0.80000 0.68000 0.57800 0.49130 0.41761 0.35496 0.30172 0.25646 0.21799 0.18529 0.15750 0.13387

Don't forget that some assists might scale an insanely lot your damages. Like Cerebella's Diamond drop gets your directly to 15% damages. I didn't try with other assists but I believe it's only with command grabs.

worldjem7

deice-, post: 6831000, member: 21714 wrote:

What I'm interested in is, I'm reading between the lines in the wiki that every hit scales independently, so multi-hitting moves basically rape your scaling. Is this a universal rule that every hit that registers on the combo counter scales once (except throw starters)?

Yes, damage scaling is constant and universal for every move. How far in the combo you are determines how scaled the combo is and throws freeze scaling until the entire throw has completed.

The first 3 hits in a combo do full damage then the 4th hit will be 85% and so on with compounded scaling.

I made a damage scaling calculator on excel last fall for SG because the scaling is that simple.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtQ_t4ERdHBLdHpOU0JRd2tSekt1ZVdzSHc3LUdtUWc

I think there's only one special rule outside of DHCs resetting scaling to 80% and that's Cerebella's 360 super. I forget the details but under some condition, the last hit will only do half damage.

Mr. X

worldjem7, post: 6834765, member: 8433 wrote:

I think there's only one special rule outside of DHCs resetting scaling to 80% and that's Cerebella's 360 super. I forget the details but under some condition, the last hit will only do half damage.

Throwing off stagger like her sMP or Run > Throw

AmigoOne

Just a curious question. Why doesn't Mike Z give us frame data on skullgirls? Do you think he should or shouldn't?

Mr. X

AmigoOne, post: 6835077, member: 28708 wrote:

Just a curious question. Why doesn't Mike Z give us frame data on skullgirls? Do you think he should or shouldn't?

Who do you think is giving us frame data on the wiki? it not him, himself but someone close to the project he's allowing to do it.

He had something to compile all the frame data but it broke.

There's also the hitstun and blockstun bars in the training mode.

Dime_x

Mr. X, post: 6835110, member: 7367 wrote:

Who do you think is giving us frame data on the wiki? it not him, himself but someone close to the project he's allowing to do it.

He had something to compile all the frame data but it broke.

There's also the hitstun and blockstun bars in the training mode.

iirc he said that pizzarino was ironmanning the frame data down just like how the guide people do it... time consumng ass process.

it sucks that his old xbox broke with all the frames and stuff on it... but in the end though it isnt THAT needed, just something that helps.



-dime

AndoTheCommando

I've discovered that Cerebella can cancel her AA grab with Showstopper. You jump, you get grabbed. You stay grounded, you get grabbed. Have fun with that.

AndoTheCommando

AmigoOne, post: 6835077, member: 28708 wrote:

Just a curious question. Why doesn't Mike Z give us frame data on skullgirls? Do you think he should or shouldn't?

Pizzarino is working on acquiring the frame data for the wiki. Not sure what his progress is though.

shiningnegro

AndoTheCommando, post: 6835199, member: 61442 wrote:

I've discovered that Cerebella can cancel her AA grab with Showstopper. You jump, you get grabbed. You stay grounded, you get grabbed. Have fun with that.

God damn that is scary tech right there

Mr. X

AndoTheCommando, post: 6835203, member: 61442 wrote:

Pizzarino is working on acquiring the frame data for the wiki. Not sure what his progress is though.

3/8 characters have frame data for their normals up

Filia
Valentine
Cerebella