Solo vs Duo vs Trio - (Wo)Man Teams - Ratio Discussion

option.iv

Hey guys this thread will be a discussion as to what team ratio you prefer. It can be discussed by either listing pros and cons or whatever you want to get your point across. Let's get ball rolling.



1 Character Team:
+ 1.70 Damage Multiplier vs. other ratio teams (1.00 vs. same ratio and best out of 3 round format).
+ More Health in comparison to other teams.

- No access to assists to extend combos or supplement rushdown, keepaway, or defense.

I think 1 character teams are decent, but the lack of assist really irks me in this game. At least most of the cast has some sort of weakness or something they need an assist to supplement. But I feel that the damage output and life somewhat makes up for this. But if thought in terms of characters with high life and damage, I start to think about the common grappler character. They usually have high life and damage but most often lack in solid tools to get in and apply the damage, when compared to low life characters with vastly more options (*cough* Seth *cough* Viper*)

2 Character Team:
+ 1.30 Damage Multiplier vs other ratio teams (1.00 vs. same ratio)
+ Access to one assist to extend combos or supplement rushdown, keepaway, or defense.

- Less Health in comparison to 1 character teams.

This ratio I tend to favor the most. Gives access to assists and I believe if the player is creative enough can easily make up for the damage drop-off from the 1 character ratio (about a 25% drop compared to 1 ratio). As for the anchor not having backup if point character dies kind of restricts the 2nd slot. Most likely you'd want a good assist that can also play unsupported just in case. I'm sure any character can still put up a fight still with 1.30x multiplier and decent health, but for sure it'll always be an uphill battle against a 1 ratio character.

3 Character Team
+Access to two types of assists to extend combos or supplement rushdown, keepaway, or defense.

- Can call only one assist per combo.
- 1.00 Damage Multiplier vs other and same ratio teams.
- Less Health in comparison to other ratio teams.

I tend to like this ratio the least. It does give variety in that you essentially have two 2-character teams assuming only the point is killed. But I feel the drop in damage (about 42%) and life can't be overcome. Especially with the fact that only one assist can be called per combo, as to why this is, I have no idea. If a 2-ratio anchor vs 1-ratio was hard enough, I'm sure a 3-ratio anchor vs 1-ratio would be even harder.

Phew, well those are my somewhat brief thoughts on this. I'd definitely love to hear everyone else's thoughts on the "ratio" system and which ratio will prove to be the best.

edit: Thanks to not so saint for referring me to the table and srk wiki for the info.

Stumblebee

I'm having a problem with solo characters currently. They hit like a truck and a half.

I think one or two is a nice sweetspot.

And I also think that a 3 person team would only work with very specialized teams. Yeah you get another DHC or assist, but you can easily be killed by a simple combo from a solo character.

ilovedawkins

Id say that some characters are suited to a 1 man team better than others, I mean half the point of Parasoul's move list seems to be that she can generate pseudo assists and has a cancel (which sadly does not work as an assist I don't think) whereas perhaps some of the other characters, like solo Valentine are a little more limited and need support.

kenmastersX

I will agree with the first post, 3 man teams have so much going against them damage-wise it's hard to even want to risk it.

2 man teams will be the easiest to manage, with the perfect balance of versatility and damage output, plus even if a character is good solo, they would be so much better with an assist.

not so saint

I think you should add this thing in first post.

Hopefully it'll help to avoid possible confusion.

ilovedawkins, post: 6811804, member: 18646 wrote:

Id say that some characters are suited to a 1 man team better than others, I mean half the point of Parasoul's move list seems to be that she can generate pseudo assists and has a cancel (which sadly does not work as an assist I don't think) whereas perhaps some of the other characters, like solo Valentine are a little more limited and need support.

Your point can't benefit from this, yes.

option.iv

ilovedawkins, post: 6811804, member: 18646 wrote:

Id say that some characters are suited to a 1 man team better than others, I mean half the point of Parasoul's move list seems to be that she can generate pseudo assists and has a cancel (which sadly does not work as an assist I don't think) whereas perhaps some of the other characters, like solo Valentine are a little more limited and need support.

I've mainly been focusing on Parasoul in this game and I think she's a jack of all trades. She can definitely hang with Peacock with keep away, especially with Egret Dive. She also has great pokes, namely j. and decent ways to get in, despite having no air dashes and wavedashing. Her mobility isn't that much of an issue and even though her supers or solo combos don't do much damage, nothing like that 175% damage to make up for that. I can definitely see Parasoul as an exception to focusing on 2 or 3 ratio teams.

Boodendorf

I'm currently using a 3 woman team and it works much better than my 2 woman team and it works pretty well. I'm not that much scared by getting ToD since I have 3 chars and, I played so much umvc3 that I got used to this kind of stuff. Basically I just have to not get hit and I'll be fine haha.

Firebranded

Dynamic duos will probably end up being the best!

Mr. X

Too soon to tell, will probably be character+assist dependent on which size is best.

Crabcakes410

I like two characters. Assuming you opponent has a 1 or 2 person team, If you have one character then you die in 3 BnB's. If you have 2 characters they each die in two. If you have 3 characters they each die in one BnB. So I feel like I can get hit one more time as a 2 person team.
Obviously you don't want to get hit, but its gonna happen.

Boodendorf

Crabcakes410, post: 6812203, member: 46214 wrote:

I like two characters. Assuming you opponent has a 1 or 2 person team, If you have one character then you die in 3 BnB's. If you have 2 characters they each die in two. If you have 3 characters they each die in one BnB. So I feel like I can get hit one more time as a 2 person team.
Obviously you don't want to get hit, but its gonna happen.

One character: 3 bnbs
Two characters: 4 bnbs
Three characters: 3 bnbs

Well don't forget the red health for two and three characters, meaning that if you play smart you'll be able to take even more bnbs if you need to.

Deadpoolfanssj4

Some things people are ignoring:

-in 3v1, the three character team has a higher health pool than the solo character
-in 1v1, people have already found combos that take over half of the enemy's health
-In the 3v1 with good, safe assist calls, the solo character can never take more than 1/3 of the triple team's health pool at a time, despite the damage boost.

So when you're playing a team vs. a solo character you're automatically putting a damage cap on them. People are avoiding 3 woman teams because they're afraid of losing a game in 3 hits, but when we get to that point a 2 woman team can lose a game in 2 hits, and solo can lose a round in 2 hits as well. We already know calling assists is well worth the risk in umvc3 where assists are more limited and take more damage, and in this game they're even better. So with this in mind, is giving up assists REALLY worth it?

Arcade-Fever

Going by FinsetKO tourney, 2 and 3 girls team are far superior than a 1 solo girl by far (as long as the player know what he is doing), team of 2 sacrifice an assist for a damage boost which make each combo pack a lot more punch while still having some support from the other char, while a team of 3 can cover more weakness with specific assist to compensate for the matchups and damage ratio differences.

Diemme

Solo teams are terrible and useless. They will get destroyed, hands down.

Cerei

All solo teams require is patience and perception. Only players that have these things will have the capacity to play a solo team. Instead of rushing out and doing a slew of j.fierce moves or unsafe specials and attacks, the player will have to control the pace of the match in another way. I plan to play solo Cerebella only because the character and facets of playing a lone character fit my playstyle superbly.

FenixStryk

I don't see Solo characters getting anywhere due to the lack of assists, alpha counters, safe DHCs and red health. The damage bonus and clear access to Touch of Death combos helps them out somewhat, but it's not worth the sacrifice.

Right now I see Duos having the edge, but only until Trios find a way to kill 3v2s in one combo. 2v3s are already just about there in terms of 100%s and will always have access to Touch of Death combos that cost less meter due to the 130% damage bonus, but the extra assist and higher total HP from Trios makes them the safest choice and the choice most likely to flourish over the game's lifespan.

worldjem7

I view solos to be a bit similar to BlazBlue's Beginner/Stylish mode where you are limiting or handicapping yourself in certain areas for the sake of simplicity in learning a single character. With SkullGirls, though, playing as a solo is an amazing gateway into the game, because the controls are always the same, whereas Beginner mode is a huge crutch because if you ever decide to learn the game properly, you will have to relearn everything about your character.

As a Solo, you can:
Use Snapbacks
Use Supers
Not use DHCs
Not use Stunt Double
Not use assists
Not recover red health

But it doesn't stop you from learning whatever character you decide to play. And once you are somewhat comfortable with your character, and you notice where you have trouble, you can segue into taking up an assist, to help cover an area your character is weak in, and if you like the character you're using as an assist, you can learn them as well and still be able to put up a fight because every character is balanced to be good on point.

I'm not too sure about duos or trios though, the only benefit I see from a trio is that you get a second assist to help cover more areas that your characters may be weak in, and you get another DHC to extend your combos even further, but I'm not sure how necessary that is because all the characters are very good in most respects that they probably only need one assist to help them out.

Also, the Solo damage multiplier is x1.75, not x1.70

Edit: On a Trio, you can also more easily recover red health by just not calling that assist and using the other assist, so it gives you a greater overall net health than a duo, but I'd think only those who are experienced enough would be able to bring out a trio's full potential.

KinXBinX

Coming back from NCI Ranbats a set of 2 and 3 character seems pretty common, occasionally I would come across someone who picks one. Everyone has remember that picking the number of team members is a legit tactic of the own player's synergy. I usually pick 2 characters but if I play a player who runs with one character I also pick one character so the round can be best 2-3.

Inxplotch

Personally, I feel solo teams are most fun only when it's a 1v1 match, because then it converts into the 2 out of 3 standard, and that's cool.

Otherwise, 2 and 3 person teams usually have a leg up against solo teams, since they have a little bit of an easier time keeping pressure on a solo character with assists as well as all the other benefits that solo teams miss out on. Single man teams have to work significantly harder to go up against teams effectively (but I wouldn't say they're completely useless. some characters are great as solo fighters).

in consideration of 2 and 3 man teams, I feel that each have their own benefits considering damage boosts and versatility and I'm not really good enough to decide which is clearly better.

Unessential

I know if I'm having a bad matchup, against a character. I choose just parasoul or just double to learn the matchup better (or of the other player has a gimmick I'm not used to). I find that often I do better than my 2 person team because I can focus on the nuances of the match better. (although normally I do better with 2 person teams). and hey, once I learn the nuances and are able to beat the gimmick, I'm that much better with my team. and THEY have to adapt to two characters instead of just one.

Personally I think 1 character is just fine the way it is. (at this point in the game's development) If anything they just need a slight health boost. Damage is fine the way it is

I'm also considering adding a 3rd person to my team. and solo is a great way to decide on and learn a character.

DevilJin 01

Firstly I'm going to need people comparing 1 solo character vs. 3 people to Dark Wesker with XF to hold dat shit. I've actually heard people compare Size 1 characters against Size 2 and 3's as some XF shit when it's obvious that Size 3 teams have the potential to pretty much shut down most to all solo characters in the future. You don't get a frame or speed boost as a solo character, the combos that kill still require more work than the XF3 combos and you lose access to most all of the game's mechanics for the entire round. It's not like Marvel 3 where you get to use a point character + 2 assists, a ton of extra gameplay mechanics and then if all else fails you get a frame boosted, speed boosted, damage boosted version of your last character. Just don't even do it.

Other than that I think 2 teams are pretty good and 3 people teams will get stronger as time goes on.

OlDirtyBastard

Ive been playing Cerebella solo until I get more comfortable playing with her. I plan to add a second though because she has obvious weaknesses in her solo game.
Hi Option!

lookatthisjackass

I mean, if you look at CvS2, nobody really rocks ratio 4. ijs

Zero1_

I suspect a team of 2 is optimal since you have the assists and damage recovery that you don't get solo, but you aren't punished as bad damage scaling wise as a team of 3.

Also I'm learning Valentine solo and will be my main, then I'll take a look at someone else solo. Then finally play them in a team of two and then learn all the tagging and double team attacks.

One step at a time!

Diemme

Anyone playing a solo team right now is fine. The mixups are still there, and msot people aren't accustomed to playing a duo team correctly; however, anyone playing a solo team in a week's time is about the get slaughtered.

Don't plan to be mediocre.

Great_Dark_Hero

I wonder... I just bought this game yesterday. And, LOVE it!
Hmph. For personal preference, I rely on 2 character teams. This gives me two character options and I really tend to lean towards rush down game play, and this particular scenario helps me do just that. Two characters capitalize on each others strength and weaknesses, as well! This provides me with all kinds of options... mix-ups, assists, game play adjustments... so many good things!

keo-bas

Personally trying to run Solo painwheel has been difficult. Unless teh character has some versatility, the solow character will have huge handicappe to overcome. Perosnally I do think they need bigger health value or better defense. One of the two.

DevilJin 01

Just put Parasoul second with Napalm Pillar assist. You get a great DHC that converts into extra combo opportunity after her bike super hits and Painwheel just basically becomes a better character with Napalm Pillar.

option.iv

The main thing that irks me is that only one assist can be called per combo. This would make me think that Duos would be most optimal. Only reason I can see Trios doing ok is to have an assist to backup the 2nd character who can't run quite well by themselves.

DevilJin 01

I dunno. I still think having 3 characters instead of 2 is still going to be a big deal down in the future. A 3 character team still has the most health points total and having access to 2 assists and still access to an assist if one of your characters dies is pretty strong.

Especially if it ends up like Marvel 2 and people just reset all day off restands and stuff it may not be as necessary to just straight grind combos like in other animu games.

DayUn

DevilJin 01, post: 6821496, member: 1242 wrote:

I dunno. I still think having 3 characters instead of 2 is still going to be a big deal down in the future. A 3 character team still has the most health points total and having access to 2 assists and still access to an assist if one of your characters dies is pretty strong.

Especially if it ends up like Marvel 2 and people just reset all day off restands and stuff it may not be as necessary to just straight grind combos like in other animu games.

As of right now characters mixup potential isn't quite marvel 2 status to make resets more worth it than finding a good situation after a combo. The speed of dashes and overheads in this game make it really hard to get some degenerate St. LP, call assist, dash under, jump, tri dash down BS. Best i can see you getting is maybe an instant overhead/low into another throw mixup. Whether or not it's more worth it than optimizing your combo in a way that leaves you in position where you're at decent advantage. I see a lot of people ending Felia/Bella combos in ways that launch the opponent across the screen. If you can find a nice balance between positioning and damage that would probably be the direction you want to take.

GameLink7

Unless you got GREAT keepaway, Solo Cerebella does CRAZY damage. Tried to get in with both a solo team and a 2-girl team against her and both got handed. I do 2 nice lil complicated combos with Valentine (Solo) and she does the same amount of damage with 1 simple combo @_@

Heck even played some nice Solo Peacocks, sure she's a little more open, but the damage she does and her ability to combo ANYTHING into Argus Agony (And punish anything with Argus Agony, still make me rage why my Level 3 whiffs because of Argus Agony's invincibility) and the fact since she spams/summons a lot, she gains meter like CRAZY.

Solos are so very viable.

~GL

ataconazi

3 char teamseasily the best. Access to multiple, varying assists, more health, dhcs into level 3 and 5 for meter reduction, insane resets with certain assists, alphas to get out...and importantly, safe dch potential of you ever do get hit

I feel like if you're getting hit you should already be thinking about a safe dhc in this game and as 3 characters your first goes in yhe back to get life back.

1 char just seems scrubby and random. It's all about landing one hit, into kill or reset kill. Too risky. especially when you're mashing dhcs to get out of resets. Also 10% poison dmg from valenine on them
:)

ENFP Champion

I solo Parasoul and I dont feel i need an assist im doing just fine even with doubles "tactical" bullshit as well as cerebella's nasty head spin assist and damage output. My choice, lovin it.

Arachnofiend

Man, I dunno what is even with Parasoul. She isn't too incredibly powerful but she doesn't really have a clear weakness that you can exploit with an assist like the rest of the cast.

If anyone is going to be viable as a solo character down the road it's going to be her.

Sleazoid

Stumblebee, post: 6811794, member: 16413 wrote:

I'm having a problem with solo characters currently. They hit like a truck and a half.

The damage amping isn't really that big of a deal...

Let's say a solo character does 4k in a combo in a 1v1.

In a 1v1, that's 4000/14300, or roughly 28% of that team's total health.
In a 1v2or 1v3, that's 4000*1.75/28600, or roughly 24.5% of that team's total health.
You're actually better off playing as a team, as far as taking damage goes.

That's also ignoring the fact that a team of two or three can recover some of that damage, further increasing their total effective health.

Or the fact that teams get free combo-breakers when their characters die. A combo that does 7.5k damage only has to be done four times to kill a team of one two times (remember that 1v1s are a three-rounds format), but has to be done six times to kill a team of three.

Or all the other things that make life hard for solo characters matchup-wise.

The damage amplification doesn't really matter due to the adjusting of life totals, really all it does is ensure that a combo that wipes 1/3rd of a team is also going to wipe roughly a third of a solo as well. It's only really a problem if you're playing a team and you have one or two characters who you are clearly better/worse with, because now those characters have different worth to you.

N_paul

Three person teams can take pressure and anti pressure assists, giving some ridiculous options (ie, point character backed by cerecopter and a dragon punch). Honestly I'm leaning towards a mix of two and three person teams. I think pure rushdown will favor two person teams because of the balance of a pressure assist for mixups and the damage gained. I see a lot of people going for three so they can use a battery and then bring in a fully loaded peacock with an AAA like Napalm pillar

Tragedy

I personally think the choice of solo/duo/trio will eventually come down to solo preference almost entirely, with perhaps a small favoring towards duos and trios.

Right now it seems as if solos are dominating because... well think about it... how many people at this point are honestly all that good with more than one character?

One thing you can't get away with in this game like you can in say... Marvel, is not really knowing any of your team's cogs. You could quite easily run one point character with 2 assist characters and wreak enough havoc to get away with it in the typical game of Marvel. In SkullGirls? Not so much.

You either know, in-depth, each cog of your team, or you may as well call it a handicap.

A person who's skilled with 1 character is going to beat a person who's mediocre at best with 2 characters. That's just how it is as far as I can see. In order to compensate for the difference in damage/health it is absolutely necessary to know all parts of your team if you're going to bother playing a duo or trio over a solo.

Also... the percentage chart needs to be re-done imo. I understand what happens between the various team setups as far as the ratios and health goes... until I look at that chart. Maybe my brain just hates the colors or something, but I swear the thing seriously doesn't make any sense when I just glance at it -.-

Arachnofiend

The exception being characters like Peacock that are augmented substantially by an assist. Peacock goes from being incredibly difficult to play to the return of Cable when paired with an anti-air.

zRevvy

Three person teams just seem far too weak.

Hawkingbird

I been rocking two gal team with Cerebella and Peacock and it has been working beautifully for me. I believe that duo and trios will be the most optimal as time goes on as teams will have full access to all the game's mechanics compared to solos. I run Solo Bella on occasion and I have to put in too much work to gain an upper hand.

worldjem7

Net Healths anyone?


Might as well stick this in the first post instead of what you have there.

Basically, the 3 in 1v3 has about 8k health and the 2 in 1v2 has about 9k health per character.

XthAtGAm3RGuYX

Why everybody hating on Solo reams in here? If you have a hit confirm bnb into 3000+ damage you can normally wreck a duo or trio like it's nobody's business

worldjem7

The trouble with Solos is they don't have a reliable way to actually get that first hit because assists cover the multi-character teams too well.

Being able to deal a lot of damage means nothing if you can't hit your opponent.

IparryU

lookatthisjackass, post: 6818428, member: 48137 wrote:

I mean, if you look at CvS2, nobody really rocks ratio 4. ijs

Exactly... not do you see two ratio 2s that much. Always take 3 ppl in and you get health recovery in the next round.

SG will be a 3 vs 3 in due time no doubt.

Sent from my SC-02B using Tapatalk

Generalkills

Imo I think that Solo needs to be buffed. I find it too weak. Solo should atleast have more HP than 3 man teams. Teams just have too much advantages over Solo and I feel Solo should be buffed especially with 3v1.

keo-bas

call me crazy but heres an idea if Skull girl decide to buff Solo. how about solo0 gains an extra meter depednat on macth ups. 1 vs 2= 2 meter stock, 1 vs 3= 3 meter stock. Though it does makes wonder about 2 vs 3, should the duo get meter too. Personally i don't think so because they have all the essential stuff with balance states.

tataki

Inxplotch, post: 6815449, member: 61994 wrote:

Personally, I feel solo teams are most fun only when it's a 1v1 match, because then it converts into the 2 out of 3 standard, and that's cool.

You can set it to be 2 out of 3 as well in the game options IIRC.

I think ratio 1 is good depending on which character you use. I'm using Parasoul and so far I have no problems since she's pretty well rounded. Has footsies has mixups has pressure etc.

DevilJin 01

worldjem7, post: 6822764, member: 8433 wrote:

The trouble with Solos is they don't have a reliable way to actually get that first hit because assists cover the multi-character teams too well.

Being able to deal a lot of damage means nothing if you can't hit your opponent.

Yeah it's like everyone becomes ST Gief or R4 K Raiden when they're fighting you solo. If they hit you, you get blown up but that's if. People will get hit and blown up early of course but as time goes on options will will beat swinging for hits by yourself.

worldjem7

"It's not gonna matter how much life they have or how much damage they do, they're never gonna land that hit; it's just going to take them 10 years to lose."
- Mike Z

If something is going to change to give Solos a better chance vs Duos and Trios, it's probably not gonna be a life or damage increase.

Combo_Knight

I personally feel like certain characters need it. I know I need Solo because I need the hp because I'm mistake prone.I feel like Double makes things easier to manage in solo and can be used really well when we make use of all of her mobility options and traps etc. However, due to the opinions in this thread I'm beginning to question my motives.