Which Character do you just hate fighting against?

Huggy BearHuggy Bear Scoops Häagen-Dazs®Joined: Posts: 2,149
Do you have a character that you just "Oh shit" when you hear their name on the character select screen? A character you despise fighting for a multitude of reasons? I have 3:


Ragna - You all know why. Half of XBL plays him, pick up and play monster.

Litchi - A good Litchi player is pretty scary for me, I'm not sure what it is but I just find her difficult. And when you're in the corner against Litchi she becomes a different monster. I have the upmost respect for Litchi players, though. But I just always struggle against her.

Hakumen - Mixed bag. I don't think getting in is too difficult. But respecting mashed out Yukikaze almost nullifies any risky mixup. Same with regular drive anyway. I really have to take it slow here.

You guys?
Logan / Spencer / Gouki

Comments

  • VerimeloniVerimeloni Joined: Posts: 116
    Hazama/Hakumen - just because in CS2 50% of all my matches were with them.

    Tager - not because of command grabs but because I really have trouble fighting him most of the time. I main Carl so my strategy in 80% of all fights is to let Nirvana do the raw damage, but because Tager's magnets it's hard to gain distance thus set up diversions and traps.
    LIVE/verimeloni - PSN/veriberry
    PLAYING CHRONOPHANTASMA (Azrael all the way bitches')
    BlazBlue/Azrael, Tsubaki, Jin - Guilty Gear/Order-Sol, Jam, Baiken
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    It used to be Noel, now it's just Ragna. =/
  • CaButlerCaButler Joined: Posts: 36
    Lambda and Rachel, but mostly Lambda.

    I hate those damn swords.
  • skooskoo strong strong tager. Joined: Posts: 5
    Definitely Ragna, Arakune is starting to get annoying too.
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    Arakune would bother me more if I played against him more often, but I basically never see him. In fact, most of the time, I tend to forget he's even in the game. o.o

    Ragna though... it's like 50% Ragna online (20% Hazama, the remaining 30% random stuff that seems to include a bunch of Mu).
    Ragna: Oh, I hit you with some random move at some really baffling angle (Gauntlet Hades while you were ABOVE ME!)? Yay! 3.5k and full corner carry! Whoo!

    FFS Ragna, you'd be less annoying if SOMETHING didn't confirm into 3k+. (Okay, fine, grounded 5B standing midscreen with zero heat doesn't lead to much, but if it's an air hit/crouching/he has 50 meter/is anywhere near the corner then it's back on 3k+ train.)
  • Huggy BearHuggy Bear Scoops Häagen-Dazs® Joined: Posts: 2,149
    People will never fully understand just how strong Mu is. Any counterhit leads to around 4K pretty much anywhere. and 6C is flat out broken. 7K Midscreen that builds it's own heat? Lol.

    I seem to be seeing a LOT of Hazama now. And whilst I can usually blow up runaway players. It's becoming tedious. You either fight dumbass rushdown Ragna players, or Hazama players that do nothing but Jump back chain.

    CS2 > Extend IMO

    The balancing in this game is so fucking skewy. Looking at the changelist im just like "WHY DO THIS?!" to almost every character.

    Ragna - Needed very minor buffs. 6B relaunch was enough. He got way too many powerups.
    Tsubaki - Needed no changes. Especially not these bullshit nerfs she did not need
    Valk - Godlike Mixup or Godlike Damage. Pick one.
    Makoto - Needed nerfs. But they went way too overboard here. It's silly.
    Hakumen - He needed faster heat cooldown. What else did he really really need? j.B is godlike.

    Other than that. Good job.
    Logan / Spencer / Gouki

  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    Hey, at least Tager got what he needed. He does good combo damage now, so people can't just constantly try to jump out against him for free. Is he top tier? No, and he probably never will be, but I subscribe to the "games in which grapplers are top tier tend to not be any fun" theory, so I have no problem with mid-tier Tager. Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with you about the changelist - I really think that 90% of the CS2 > Extend changes were unnecessary. Good luck finding a match in CS2 these days though.

    Mu's 6C is indeed pretty stupid from a proration perspective, but I don't think it's that much better - in and of itself - that most other characters' "big whammy" starter; I mean, yeah, it's 100/96 + Fatal and wallbounce, but that's not that much crazier than, say, Ragna 2C which is 100/92 + fatal and a whole lot faster, or even Makoto 2C which is 100/92 + Fatal and launch. It's really the rest of Mu's combo paths that make her silly (though I admit I'm not sure why it's 100/96 instead of 100/92 like most other people's stuff, but that's not that big a difference by itself.). It's not until we get back to everyone's favorite domestic abuse vicitm, Tsubaki, where we discover that, oh, hey, look. Her 100/90 move isn't a fatal anymore, and all of her other 100/90+ proration starters are FOLLOWUPS, which means that your opponent needs to block the first move and then decide to let you punch him in the face with the next one in order for you to get that juicy starter. And we all know how much THAT happens. And out of THOSE moves, the one that's most likely to weasel out a hit (3CC) requires a rapid cancel to follow up. Good job, team.
  • Huggy BearHuggy Bear Scoops Häagen-Dazs® Joined: Posts: 2,149
    Yeah. Tager is fine as he is now, he has real combos that do average damage in favour of resets and tech traps, which is what I think tager specialises in.

    Mu's 6C is ridiculous for just how long the combo actually goes on for. You get OTG'd a minimum of 3 times and it ends in a super. I just think the Risk / Reward is almost justified for getting 7K with an average-joe combo.

    I cannot fathom Tsubaki changes. I bet Konan is kicking himself every day wishing he didn't win SBO man.
    Logan / Spencer / Gouki

  • CaButlerCaButler Joined: Posts: 36
    I didn't realize they did anything to Tsubaki. I play against a pretty good Tsubaki online who can kick my ass with her more often than not. Nice guy, too.
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    Rummage around some of the stickied threads and I'm sure you can find one of my rants about how stupid all the Tsubaki changes are. I just don't have the rage left to post another one.
  • J-Will!J-Will! Joined: Posts: 6
    I'm very sick of jin and ragna, those are practically the only two characters my opponents play online -_- I feel like I learned how to play as both of them from watching everyone do the same things with them over and over.
  • Onslaught XOnslaught X Fear, actualizes true strength. Joined: Posts: 915
    Fucking. Noel. And Arakune's curse.
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    Try actually PLAYING as Noel for a while. She's not as simple as she seems. A large part of her gameplay involves calling out her opponent's options and causing them to whiff by using her drive starters, so if you can't read your opponent and pull that off, her damage output goes down a lot.
  • Onslaught XOnslaught X Fear, actualizes true strength. Joined: Posts: 915
    For some reason you've decided to respond to 3 of my comments across 3 different threads about Noel, so I'll just post my rebuttle across all of them I guess.

    Noel has advanced tactics, obviously. Everyone in the game does. What grinds my gears about her is just how obnoxiously accessible she is. I mean, let's face it. She pretty much has an auto-pilot drive that can auto-punish, auto-anti air, auto-mixup, ect ect. She may get a lot of damage decay but it's just as easy to reset into another chain of auto-pilot attacks simply by mashing her drive, and THAT'S what pisses me off about her. I also believe this is a large amount of the reason as to why she's not really a good character to pick as someone to use to get into this game.

    Even though Ragna is almost just as easy to pick up and mash, he plays a totally different game. His drive isn't mashable really, and there isn't really an auto-pilot going on with him. His combos require a normal (albeit fairly easy) amount of input, and he's just a better character in general to start with if you're trying to learn the mechanic of the game. Noel just teaches you how to button mash.

    And also, yes, I have played Noel. Extensively. It doesn't change how I feel about her as a character.
  • Huggy BearHuggy Bear Scoops Häagen-Dazs® Joined: Posts: 2,149
    Noel is alright now, really. I despised her in CS2 because of Meterless 2D into 5K. But now the damage is justified.

    Inb4 BBCP Hazama. Prepare yourselves for the XBL Hazama legion.
    Logan / Spencer / Gouki

  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    Noel is alright now, really. I despised her in CS2 because of Meterless 2D into 5K. But now the damage is justified.

    Pfff. How is 4K of 4D midscreen 'justified'?
    Inb4 BBCP Hazama. Prepare yourselves for the XBL Hazama legion.

    He may prove to be too difficult for them - there was, after all, never really an XBL CS2 Makoto legion.
  • Huggy BearHuggy Bear Scoops Häagen-Dazs® Joined: Posts: 2,149
    Hazama isn't that difficult. 10 minutes in training mode and you're golden.

    And it's 5K midscreen from 4D, But you need to be FC'd for that. Which in turn, is justified.
    Logan / Spencer / Gouki

  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    Hazama isn't that difficult. 10 minutes in training mode and you're golden.

    Have you played BBCP? No? Then maybe you should withhold judgement yet.
    And it's 5K midscreen from 4D, But you need to be FC'd for that. Which in turn, is justified.

    Yes, because you should never, ever get counterhit by a move that has 19 frames of invulnerability to 2/3rds of the moves in the game, starting at frame 1, and moves her hitbox backwards. Nope. Never. Clearly, Konan sucks.
  • Huggy BearHuggy Bear Scoops Häagen-Dazs® Joined: Posts: 2,149
    Have you played BBCP? No? Then maybe you should withhold judgement yet.



    Yes, because you should never, ever get counterhit by a move that has 19 frames of invulnerability to 2/3rds of the moves in the game, starting at frame 1, and moves her hitbox backwards. Nope. Never. Clearly, Konan sucks.
    Hazama is just Extend Hazama with Relaunches, I can already play Hazama. Why would I wait to give Judgement?...

    And if you keep getting hit by it you're just doing something wrong. It's Invul doesn't last long, And if Mistimed it loses to everything. It loses to moves with Low properties and is 100% free to grabs. Why complain about that? Just sounds like Mad Salt.
    Logan / Spencer / Gouki

  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    It's not free to grabs or to lows, because it moves her hitbox back, causing a lot of moves that would otherwise hit it to whiff.

    Additionally, if mistimed, she can cancel into WTFever drive followups pretty much as soon as the active frames start, so unless you're practically already hitting a button, she'll probably hit you out of your attempt to punish unless for some reason she decides to not do a followup. Your only real hope is to dodge the whole string and then punish her when she's finally forced to have recovery.
  • ViewtifulStyleViewtifulStyle Henshin a go go, baby! Joined: Posts: 18
    Ragna. I hate mirror matches.
    Devil May Cry's a rockin', baby
  • RandomDRRandomDR The great man of metal in his underwear. Joined: Posts: 17
    Ragna. Well, like you said, half of the players online just pick him and it can be really annoying at times.
    Play third strike, its a good game.
  • JefftheFridgeJefftheFridge Joined: Posts: 1
    I've grown to hate Hazama after playing a succession of people flying around the stage like bees, which is the ruddy worst when playing as Tager, Also hate Mu cluttering up the screen with those obnoxious turrets
    BB: Tager, SFIV: Vega, GG: Undecided
    blazblue-cs-valkenhayn-astera-o.gif GIFSoup
  • ZoularZoular Joined: Posts: 12
    I hate fighting everyone ever since using Rachel lol however...
    I've always found Hazama annoying, during CS2 it was a cat and mouse game with Tager, in Extend, it feels similar while I'm using Rachel. Annoying when I block a chain and pumpkin vanish, have to rely on Sword Iris to get him.
    Noel dumb hurtbox is the only thing annoying, and Tsubaki is annoying with 5As in the corner.
    Astral Heat - Arc System Works' games sessions and tournaments in London, UK.
    BlazBlue Tager, Rachel
  • BertieWoosterBertieWooster Joined: Posts: 4
    I do hate playing against Rachel, I hate her Lobelia or whatever her special move is called, her unorthodox fighting style and creatures she uses.
    I also don't like facing Hakumen and Mu
    But the worst has to be Arakune..He makes no sense.
  • ProjectRealityProjectReality Joined: Posts: 26
    Any help against Platinum? I seem to screw up a lot against her. Also, I mess up a lot in mirror matches for some reason.
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    Any help against Platinum? I seem to screw up a lot against her. Also, I mess up a lot in mirror matches for some reason.

    What seems to be the problem?

    There aren't really any 'tricks' to fighting Platinum unless your opponent is doing gimmicky crap like Blockstring -> Bubble -> Command grab or something.


    When fighting Platinum:
    #1: Make sure your opponent isn't a scrub who's going to throw out random heart cars all the time. If he is, just block a lot and kill him (Punish late so that she lands - if you attack too quickly after blocking it, you get an air hit and it's harder to get a good combo.)
    #2: Be aware of what item she has. Don't go all Rambo when she has the bat, watch out for instant overheads when she has the frying pan, expect her to just throw them all and try for a new weapon if she gets missiles/bombs.
    #3: If you have a DP, just DP her out of any Swallow Moon nonsense she tries to do. OTOH, if you play Arakune like your icon indicates, just do your regular BS. ;P

  • ProjectRealityProjectReality Joined: Posts: 26
    What seems to be the problem?

    There aren't really any 'tricks' to fighting Platinum unless your opponent is doing gimmicky crap like Blockstring -> Bubble -> Command grab or something.


    When fighting Platinum:
    #1: Make sure your opponent isn't a scrub who's going to throw out random heart cars all the time. If he is, just block a lot and kill him (Punish late so that she lands - if you attack too quickly after blocking it, you get an air hit and it's harder to get a good combo.)
    #2: Be aware of what item she has. Don't go all Rambo when she has the bat, watch out for instant overheads when she has the frying pan, expect her to just throw them all and try for a new weapon if she gets missiles/bombs.
    #3: If you have a DP, just DP her out of any Swallow Moon nonsense she tries to do. OTOH, if you play Arakune like your icon indicates, just do your regular BS. ;P

    With the amount of items she has, I sometimes get randomed out. Thanks though. I will just approach her how I approach Tager, by watching my step.

    This week, I have been facing a lot of a Hazama players, and I just could not keep up with them. They seem to fly all over the place and when throw out an anti-air, they would counter it.
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    She only has 6 items, and three of them don't really have serious implications in Neutral - Bombs and missiles are super obvious, you just dodge them once and you're probably home free. Some players will try to zone with bombs, but this isn't really very effective. Hammer has a single gimmick in neutral (IAD crossup > Hammer) which you might need to be aware of but is basically a combo tool.

    So:
    Bait bats
    Approach carefully to avoid getting CH with cat hammer
    Watch for instant overhead with frying pan.

    That's it. And you only have to worry about one at once.

    Hazama, OTOH, is a right bastard, and honestly, probably pretty broken. Arc Sys needs to get it into their head that if they're going to make a character with crazy mobility, they can't also give them other tools that are better than the rest of the cast. Hazama has no business having the normals and damage that he does.
  • ProjectRealityProjectReality Joined: Posts: 26
    edited August 2013
    I just think his mobility gimick is pretty broken. There was one that ran out the clock by running. Arakune really couldn't do anything.
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    Yes, if there's one thing that Hazama excels at, it's running away. And in general his mobility game is very strong, but it wouldn't be a problem (for characters other than Tager. :P ) if he didn't also have stupid good pressure and normals, to say nothing of his explosive damage. Arc Sys seems to woefully underestimate the value of mobility, so all the characters with really strong mobility also seem to have several other really strong aspects, whereas many characters who don't have strong mobility aren't as strong in other areas either.
  • VerimeloniVerimeloni Joined: Posts: 116
    This is a little off-topic but... About Platinum, I know Airk already answered ProjectReality's question, I can't help but recall a debate over Platinum's Swallow Moon being a mediocre mixup tool. I was just randomly searching Extend videos in YouTube and found this one:
    (watch the first Platinum vs. Makoto matchup).

    The one playing Platinum uses it all the time, for example j.c (blocked) > Swallow Moon -cancel > j.c or just on the ground. And from watching this match (and knowing the Makoto player isn't a scrub), that mixup doesn't seem to be so easy to punish, you just have keep on blocking until you can DP or sumthin', gain distance with IB tai Barrier etc. (Unless you're watching out for it, then you can just poke to score CH.)

    Just wanted to share this video. And I'm just a Tsubaki-scrub so correct me if I'm horribly wrong <:D
    LIVE/verimeloni - PSN/veriberry
    PLAYING CHRONOPHANTASMA (Azrael all the way bitches')
    BlazBlue/Azrael, Tsubaki, Jin - Guilty Gear/Order-Sol, Jam, Baiken
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    I disagree with your basic premise, namely, that that Platinum player used Swallow Moon a lot - at least, not in pressure. Watching the first round, there were a few times when she did it close to the opponent, and all of those could have been DP'd, though not necessarily on reaction.

    If you watch the Ragna match later in that video, she basically doesn't use it at all, possibly because she knows Ragna will just blow her up with an ID.
  • ProjectRealityProjectReality Joined: Posts: 26
    Can I have some tips on how to punish Jin's 214B? Mainly B because 214A is a much shorter distance and Arakune can always avoid 214C with 2C. A 5C anti-air doesn't work. Do I just have to be away from the situation?
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    214B is -9, so you are probably best off just blocking and doing a throw or a 5A, assuming they reach. I don't really know much about Arakune.
  • KikeredKikered Joined: Posts: 36
    edited August 2013
    Which characters do I hate fighting against? All of them. =P

    *mains Tsubaki*
  • ProjectRealityProjectReality Joined: Posts: 26
    You know, I, from time to time, always hate fighting a certain character aswell.

    If a Rachel player is well composed, the likelihood of me winning is not that large.
  • iminthenet2iminthenet2 Joined: Posts: 491
    Hakumen, Amane, Arakune, Azrael, Hazama, and Litchi are the characters I hate fighting against.
  • NonSexualRiceNonSexualRice Riding The VaporWave Joined: Posts: 3,585
    Lambda's and Litchi's.

    ugh
    BB: valkenhayn/Carl
    SG: Fortune/Eliza (hype train)/Valentine
  • Kenrou_HoroKenrou_Horo Joined: Posts: 1
    edited October 2013
    Carl. If I spot a high PSR Carl, all you'd be seeing from me is the trail of dust as I run in the opposite direction. Actually, that's just whom I get scared of fighting against.

    Who I really hate fighting against is Noel. It just feels like I'm punching air :V.
  • HOS303HOS303 Operation: StingRAIDS Joined: Posts: 38
    edited November 2013
    As Taokaka, I just can't stand fighting Bullet. It's like she can snatch me out of anything I do ;_; I can't do any mixup shenanigans against Bullet because what ends up happening usually involves 3000+ damage Drive counters. The moment you're forced to let up and play more cautiously is the moment Bullet seems to win.

    In *GENERAL,* Tager, Nu, and Amane are my worst nightmares come to life.
    OFFLINE: UMVC3 Felicia, Magneto, Strider Hiryu || Trish, Tron Bonne, Strider Hiryu
    OFFLINE: KOF13 Saiki, Mature, Ash (Leona, Vice, Athena)
    PSN (BuckyWS) - BBCP Kokonoe, Mu-12 || Injustice Deathstroke
    GFWL (Tosefta Knight) - SFXT Ryu, Poison/Lars || SSF4 Yun, Ryu
  • mr_alucard101mr_alucard101 Joined: Posts: 2
    Ragna, he is the absolute vain of my blazblue existence. For a "close range" character his normals have absolutely obnoxious range, i could be half way across the screen so i feel safe, but he just tosses out a jesus kick and some how it manages to reach me. And dont even get me started on his corner work. I keep thinking his string is done, so i go for a counter or an escape, oh...no, he hits me with ANYTHING and im back in the corner till im dead. Im a rachel main so ive tried zoning him, but he still manages to get close, and ivd tried to use my wind to beat him to the punch.. but it never works. He is the absolute worse...
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    I don't know that a Rachel player has any right to complain about someone trapping them in the corner forever. Holy crap her corner pressure is impossible to get out of.
  • mr_alucard101mr_alucard101 Joined: Posts: 2
    null
    oh trust me, rachel corner gameplay is extremely hard to do, if we cant get you before we're out of wind we're basically screwed, with ragna he can consistenly keep you on the corner, we really cant do much inless we get enough meter for a counter assault or they try to go too big and use a risky move, all in all, im basically stuck in the corner for a majory of a match against ragna
  • AirkAirk Joined: Posts: 1,024
    edited October 2014
    I don't really think "If we can't somehow hit you with one of the four instant overheads we get before we run out of wind, and also don't lock you down with a frog to let wind regen, then our mixup is nooo good." is a good basis for complaint. =/

    If you think Ragna can consistently keep you in the corner, you don't know enough about Ragna. There are so many places in his pressure where you don't even need a reversal because you can just fly out with a winded jump.
    Post edited by Airk on
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