SFxT Standing Resets

UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney??Joined: Posts: 6,016 ✭✭
I hate rolls. I hate that after I gain the advantage with a hit or a combo I have to respect my opponent's roll/stand option in such a way that I can't always get the meaty situation I want. Sure, I can make a read or just stand in between roll and stand distances and react. But why should I? I'd rather just not let you roll away.

Some characters in this game have real standing resets to finish their combos. That is, you can hit the opponent with a ground bounce, wall bounce, or even hard knockdown, and if your character has the right move, you can end your combo with the opponent standing right in front of you unable to roll away. Here are the characters and moves I know so far:




CHARACTER NAME (CONDITION): MOVE TO FORCE STANDING RESET, NOTE
[SIZE=13px]Chun (ground bounce): close st mk[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13px]Heihachi (ground bounce): ex raijin stance (hcb+p), only works if 1st hit connects[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13px]Hwoarang (ground bounce): middle kick combo (mk, mk), first hit must whiff[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13px]Jin (ground bounce): ex median line destruction (toward back toward+pp), random hit in the middle of it, opponent stands up and blocks the rest[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13px]Juri (ground bounce): mk senpusha (qcb+mk), third hit[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13px]Kazuya (ground bounce): hk rising sun (qcb+hk), cr mp, can combo after[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13px]Law (ground bounce): close lp back+mp mp, can combo after[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13px]Lili (ground bounce): dive kick (air qcb+k)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13px]Lili (ground bounce): heel stomp (toward+lk lk), only works if 2nd hit connects[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13px]Marduk (ground bounce): catapult tackle combo (far hp, down+pp), first hit must whiff[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13px]Nina (ground bounce): rolling dash backhand slap (hcb+k, pp)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13px]Ryu (any comboable knockdown): ex dp xx switch cancel, walk the opponent out of it[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13px]Sagat (ground bounce): any strength tiger knee (dp+k), last hit must whiff[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13px]Steve (ground bounce): foot stomp (down-back+lk)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13px]Xiaoyu (ground bounce): ex hakkesho (qcb+pp), only works if 2nd series connects[/SIZE]

Some of these require ex meter and some of them have to be set up by a partner, but spending a bar or even two bars to guarantee where your opponent will be after a significant combo can be very important sometimes.

As far as I can tell, these fall into two categories: capture states, and random stuff.

The only semi-capture state I've found is Ryu ex dp, which captures the opponent but can then let the opponent go. There are also full capture states, like with King reverse arm slam (qcb+p) and Yoshi windmill (hcb+p) that can both combo after knockdowns and be switch canceled, but once they get started, they won't let the opponent go, so you can't push the opponent out of them.

The other moves just... seem to work for some reason. I'm not sure why. Props to you if you can figure out whether there's a common thread between Chun close st mk (a normal), Heihachi hcb+pp 1st hit (a ground special), Lili dive kick (an air special), and Steve down-back+lk (a command normal).

I'm working on a video to show this stuff, but I wanted to put up a thread first to see if there are any other known standing resets I haven't found yet. Anyone?
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Comments

  • Mo0NsMo0Ns Just like Cap but better. Joined: Posts: 439
    Standing reset innovation I think is very important. One of the reasons I like Julia is because she can do a full combo all while the opponent is standing. Good idea to compile a list of characters who can restand.

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  • KayameKayame REPENT!BOOM! Joined: Posts: 549
    This information was on nina's forum you can end her combos with the arm snap but interrupt on the first but there are some invulnerabilities on both sides check her specific thread for more info
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  • The Lone DragonThe Lone Dragon perverted feminist Joined: Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭
    I hate rolls. I hate that after I gain the advantage with a hit or a combo I have to respect my opponent's roll/stand option in such a way that I can't always get the meaty situation I want. Sure, I can make a read or just stand in between roll and stand distances and react.


    This isn't SF2 or SF4, nor does it have to be. I don't know why you would go into it with the mind set of hating it, rather than seeing it as the new rules of a new game.

    Not every fighting game has to fit within the "go for the knockdown, do meaty pressure on wake up" archtype that SF2 and SF4 have laid out for us.

    In SFA3, people barely even GET knocked down. Darkstalkers has wakeup rolls.

    Different =/= Bad
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  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    Xiaoyu (comboable knockdown): EX Hakkesho (214PP), hard to set up due to slow startup

    One possible setup for the above would be switch-canceling Law's 41236HP in the corner into Xiaoyu and then backdashing and using 214PP.
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  • SlayersliceSlayerslice Joined: Posts: 1,665

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  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,206 ✭✭
    This isn't SF2 or SF4, nor does it have to be. I don't know why you would go into it with the mind set of hating it, rather than seeing it as the new rules of a new game.

    Not every fighting game has to fit within the "go for the knockdown, do meaty pressure on wake up" archtype that SF2 and SF4 have laid out for us.

    In SFA3, people barely even GET knocked down. Darkstalkers has wakeup rolls.

    Different =/= Bad

    I agree w/ this and it is the first thing I thought after reading UltraDavid's opening arguments. So because he can't get meaty pressure off every knock down, and has to guess, he hates the roll mechanic? The whole point of rolling is to force the opponent to guess, and hopefully guess wrong.
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  • SollessSolless Needs a better area. Joined: Posts: 623
    This might be me trolling, but I can't help but wonder if at least a good portion of these players that hate the roll mechanic hate it because they would rely on Akuma or Ibuki vortex tactics in SSFIV.
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  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,206 ✭✭
    This might be me trolling, but I can't help but wonder if at least a good portion of these players that hate the roll mechanic hate it because they would rely on Akuma or Ibuki vortex tactics in SSFIV.
    The knock down meant so much in SF4 that it's hard to let it go. I don't agree w/ UD but, I think it's great that he's putting out anti-roll tech.
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  • XiahouXiahou Joined: Posts: 222
    This might be me trolling, but I can't help but wonder if at least a good portion of these players that hate the roll mechanic hate it because they would rely on Akuma or Ibuki vortex tactics in SSFIV.

    Nobody wants that (coming from a SF4 Ibuki player). But players should still be rewarded after earning a knockdown, and because of rolls being completely safe it's really not as important as it was in SF4.
  • ZarconZarcon Joined: Posts: 1
    To be fair, trying to break or abuse mechanics to work in your favour is kind of like the initiation process of a new fighter.
    You can deal with the new mechanic (rolling) by working with it or finding ways around it.
    Standing resets is a perfectly viable way to work around the rolling mechanic if someone doesn't like it.

    As for the topic at hand, I already spammed the crap out of UltraDavid on twitter, but I'll post it here for posterity.
    Lili's Heel Stomp (forward+lk, lk) sets the opponent into a unique reeling state where they grab their toe in agony.
    You can effectively use this to skip out portions of your partner's moves, like Steve's Albion Combination to skip the final hit that ground bounces.
    But for your specific topic the Heel Stomp also puts the opponent into the reeling state from a ground bounce as well, giving Lili two ways to do a standing reset from a ground bounce or forcing a standing reeling state from between a multi hitting move from your partner.
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,016 ✭✭
    Thanks, I'll check out Xiaoyu ex hakkesho and Lili heel stomp when I get home. I appreciate the feedback, Dr. Grammar and Zarcon! I've heard that there's other tech to leave the opponent standing after Ryu ex dp other than switch cancel into pushing the opponent out of it, but I haven't heard what it is. Any ideas?

    Also, it's not about whether this is like any other game or not. So many of the people who've stuck around in this forum are defensive about SFxT! I don't need this game to be like SF4 or SF2 or Skullgirls or Fighter's Destiny or anything else. But, I DO want the ability to build and maintain pressure, and unfortunately unpunishable roll, quick stand, quickstand timing variation, invincible backdash, small throw range, long startup on normal throws and command grabs, huge stage length, reversal xx switch cancel, and alpha counters all conspire together to make pressure harder to build and maintain than I'd like. So it's only natural that I look for ways to cut out as many of those as I can. By ending combos with a forced standing reset at the distance I want, I don't have to think about roll, quick stand, quickstand timing variation, small throw range, or reversal xx switch cancel quite as much.

    Since the game came out, I've been looking for non-knockdown combos that allow me to deal significant damage while denying the opponent some of the escape options this game wants to give them. And I've found a lot. Moons is right, Julia can do some great non kd combos; I was one of her early proponents for that exact reason. I can imagine a world where characters who can leave their opponents standing after combos are noticeably better on offense than those who can't because they can maintain their offense more effectively. Unfortunately, significant non kd combos are pretty rare, it's pretty much just 5-10 different characters that have them (at least, as far as I've found so far). I believe standing resets are a way to make more characters more effective on offense, because now they can use their significant knock down combos but then either reset the opponent standing or switch into a character who can.

    Again, it's not just this game. I've always looked for ways to increase the attacker's advantage. For example, those offensive SF4 style option selects? A big chunk of the reason for their creation and adoption, certainly at least in the West, is due to these videos I made in 2009. At the time, SF4 was thought to be a defensive game in which the attacker didn't really gain much advantage for a knockdown. It's funny, nowadays people complain about exactly the opposite heh. We had already heard about the Akuma vortex when I came out with these vids, but the Zangief option select vid helped people realize that a lot more of the cast can be almost as dangerous in meaty situations. Then people started coming up with delayed quick get up, non reversal wakeup specials, etc. It was this whole fun arms race that led to where we are today. I think a couple characters in SF4 take it to an unfortunate extreme, but for the most part I'm pretty happy about helping offensive pressure in that game.

    Here's to hoping that we continue to find more ways to make SFxT a faster game in which pressure is more viable and rewarding!
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  • ffffffff Joined: Posts: 167
    Well I'm looking at it from the other perspective, and I wouldn't want to be KOd by Hugo just because I got knocked down once, because he can do >1000 DMG in 2 combos. That's why I don't play Marvel. I like at least 1 more chance to guess right before going home to be a family man.

    How many times does Gief need to KD Ryu to get a KO in AE? More than once, even with super.
  • SamuelVimesSamuelVimes Joined: Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭
    Unfortunately I do not know much about re-standing, but in terms of offense and pressure, have you been able to catch Gamerbee's matches at Shadowloo Showdown? First off, his match with Poongko was the hypest I've ever seen SFxT. More importantly though, he showed just how much damage you can do while not letting up. He scouted how Poongko reacted on wakeup, and makes essentially a full lifebar comeback based on one or two correct guesses.

    I think that's why they had to include so many defensive options. So much of the cast has so many mixup options in their wakeup games it is enough to make El Fuerte green with envy. If there was super consistent ways to get a hit on wakeup, even just a jab, the damage would be just a little too insane.

    Sorry I cannot contribute much to the topic. Someone came up with an option select that has super jumps auto-correct when they roll, but only a select few characters can really take advantage of it.
  • SUPARNOVAXSUPARNOVAX 必殺技 Joined: Posts: 5,241
    Unfortunately I do not know much about re-standing, but in terms of offense and pressure, have you been able to catch Gamerbee's matches at Shadowloo Showdown? First off, his match with Poongko was the hypest I've ever seen SFxT. More importantly though, he showed just how much damage you can do while not letting up. He scouted how Poongko reacted on wakeup, and makes essentially a full lifebar comeback based on one or two correct guesses.

    I think that's why they had to include so many defensive options. So much of the cast has so many mixup options in their wakeup games it is enough to make El Fuerte green with envy. If there was super consistent ways to get a hit on wakeup, even just a jab, the damage would be just a little too insane.

    Sorry I cannot contribute much to the topic. Someone came up with an option select that has super jumps auto-correct when they roll, but only a select few characters can really take advantage of it.
    I'm confident everyone has it in some form. They may not set up off the same methods or versions of chain attacks. Bison has one off a forward throw but the timing is some what strict and it is not safe against some fast anti-airs.
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  • FullAutoDeathFullAutoDeath Joined: Posts: 312
    It'd be nice if we contributed instead of talking about whether we like the mechanic or not(there are other threads for that).

    Tag-canceling the second hit of Kazuya's Spinning Demon and connecting with pretty much anything after will cause a restand/grounded combo continuation.
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  • InfilInfil Waiting for shoryuken.com... Joined: Posts: 6,509 ✭✭✭✭
    So many of the people who've stuck around in this forum are defensive about SFxT!

    I think it's a reaction to how vehement the response has been. Every front page post on SRK and EH about SFxT tech is filled with negative comments. When you are trying to like something (sometimes, seemingly despite Capcom's best efforts) and everyone around you is saying awful things about it, it wears you down. Especially since this is supposed to be a fun hobby for most of us.

    Anyway, I don't have anything to add to your tech, but I appreciate the new developments and hopefully it leads somewhere interesting! I am a little skeptical of spending tons of meter just for the one mixup, though. Like, my team is Jin/Ryu (both characters on your list), but I wouldn't really know how to use this tech. With Jin, let's say I hit with a low forward xx special step LP, so my opponent is launched. If I want to tag, I'll do st.MK xx special step LP, tag, then just do a basic finisher with Ryu. It feels strange to spend two more meters (so that's all 3 bars total) just to do EX DP and push out? I'll be at even frames at best (?) with my opponent point blank and I'm still susceptible to reversals and backdashes. If I finish the Jin BnB with a hard knockdown, I can stand at that middling range and react and still basically be almost even frames regardless of roll, still within range of most of the normals I want to use. Is the extremely painful 2 meter cost really worth this extra bit of advantage? I would have to see video proof of some sick setups or the adaptation of some other mindgame to believe it, I think.
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  • FlyingVeFlyingVe Best Poster of All Time Joined: Posts: 12,911 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Doesn't Lili also hav one during her QCF+K. I haven't played with it too much, but its really fiddly. I'm pretty sure you have to hit with the QCF+K just right and the timing is tight, then you'll probably need to hold them in place with jabs while the QCF+K finishes. Still, they will be standing, and at that point you can make a case for a reset rather than continuing the combo.
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,016 ✭✭
    When you are trying to like something (sometimes, seemingly despite Capcom's best efforts) and everyone around you is saying awful things about it, it wears you down.
    Imo it's weird to just try to like something. If you don't like it, either drop it or work to change it. Thanks for the support, though! And yeah, I don't think spending 3 bars is a great idea most of the time. Jin's basically sucks anyway, it seems to always leave the opponent waking up into the last, unsafe hit of ex median line destruction. Ryu's seems practical to me, I wouldn't mind doing a combo into ex dp switch cancel then start some significant non-kd combo with my incoming character. You can even do his as an antiair into non-kd combo, depending on how deep you get the antiair ex dp.

    Anyway, I'm uploading a video right now.
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,016 ✭✭
    Yay! Here's a video:

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  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    Well I'm looking at it from the other perspective, and I wouldn't want to be KOd by Hugo just because I got knocked down once, because he can do >1000 DMG in 2 combos. That's why I don't play Marvel. I like at least 1 more chance to guess right before going home to be a family man.

    How many times does Gief need to KD Ryu to get a KO in AE? More than once, even with super.
    People don't realize it yet, but with the right team setup, it's possible to build a ridiculous amount of momentum in this game. From one poke and about half a bar, I typically get around 400 damage and a 50/50 mix-up, into 250 damage and the same mix-up, into another 350 damage. Even if the opponent blocks correctly, I get to put them in frame trap hell. All those defensive options are going to be a necessity against someone with a well-planned offense.

    Personally, I still have my doubts on whether most of these standing resets are going to be worth using, but it's always worth exploring and documenting things like this. Something really useful might be found, or otherwise they can make for some cool combo videos.
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  • leafcolonelleafcolonel Apprentice of Magnetism Joined: Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭
    I posted about this in the Steve forums a few weeks back, but Steve's Standing reset is nothing practical at all. Since Steve does not have any strong high low options all he is limited to is meaty attacks(for a counterhit setup) or throw, and the throw itself(+ Bounce) does less damage than the combos he gets off Albion or a Counterhit Ovehread, and you would rarely even hit these 2 options in a real match so you are better off just finishing your combos instead of going for a standing reset. The only practical use is in a long set you can train your opponent to tech after the counterhit overhead so you can get a meaty attack, but overall it's not that good. You can tag your partner in for the reset, but then again you can also tag him in for the combo which is unscaled and will deal quite a bit of damage.

    But thanks for finding the tech for the other characters, I was wondering if any other characters had standing resets since I found the ones with Steve.
    The other moves just... seem to work for some reason. I'm not sure why. Props to you if you can figure out whether there's a common thread between Chun close st mk (a normal), Heihachi hcb+pp 1st hit (a ground special), Lili dive kick (an air special), and Steve down-back+lk (a command normal).

    The reason is that all those moves are multiple hits(LIlis divekick is multiple hits, Steve's chain is d/b lk~MP, Heis 2 hits,Chun's clMK is multiple hits) , and I'm guessing they are designed to force restand for a comboable state I'm guessing in a normal juggle, and that's messed up by the ground bounce which causes them to restand period? That's what I see in common with these moves.

    Edit: I think I found a way to hit confirm into Steve's standing reset, although it's very technical.

    The opponent has to be crouching for clMP to be +30 on hit, so this will only work crouching, if works at all, I didnt test the link but I think it works.
    Any Combo ending in FoxHunt xx EX CADC, link clMP xx Albion Combination then Foot Stomp for reset

    Requires Crouching opponents but is practical as it does enough damage of its own before resetting. Since Albion is a multihitting move before the final hit ground bounces you can also do resets with tag cancels I'm guessing like his command grab by dashing forward to make the last hit whiff and jumping up.But actually practical as you get good enough damage off the command grab solo and you rarely land the command grab in the first place.
  • ViolentDjangoViolentDjango KEEP CALM and EWGF Joined: Posts: 1,170
    Yay! Here's a video:
    snip

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  • MACHSHOMACHSHO PS3: MACHSHO Joined: Posts: 156
    Imo it's weird to just try to like something. If you don't like it, either drop it or work to change it.

    I genuinely like the game, it's a fun game,it's a good game, and a lot of work went into it. People are constantly jumping on the bandwagon to constantly spam "THIS GAME IS SHIT" because either they want to be on the hate bandwagon, they have some false sense of entitlement, want to see CAPCOM fail, or they just don't like this game. But all that shit is just annoying people who like the game, and chances are after some bugs are worked out ( I hope they do something about the assist gems ) and people see some hype matches in big tournaments people will switch opinions because most people are sheep, that includes the FGC.

    I respect that you're actually learning the game and adapting ways to deal with stuff you don't like in the game, that actually requires brain power.
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  • SimSimIVSimSimIV 2nd. in command of the SFxT Defense Force Joined: Posts: 1,239 ✭✭
    I like your way of thinking UltraDavid. Instead of seeing the timer as an issue anymore, you think about time management and how it is another layer in the game. And the same thing about rolling. You don'l like it, so you treat "how to deny the opponent a roll" like a mini game inside the game. The way I understood it atleast. I like where this is going, and hope more tech is found!
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  • JampJamp Toxic Beauty Joined: Posts: 7,387 mod
    Yay! Here's a video:
    Ok, this is awesome. Guess I'll finally start learning Chun Li.
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  • rokninroknin Keeps Trying Joined: Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good stuff, and now I need to try to find something like this for my character choices, and actually put it to use as well. I actually love the roll mechanic (eh, I'm used to it), but of course if there's a way to deny it and keep my opponent standing I'd like that even more. XD
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  • Gory snakeGory snake Joined: Posts: 231
    I was looking into this stuff but I'm just not seeing much use in it besides maybe Chun's restand. I feel like in most cases you're giving up too much damage or meter just for pressure. In a game like this where meter is so important, I'm not sure if spending meter on non-guaranteed damage like this is worth it, compared to tag cancelling specials into ambiguous jumpins for 400+ damage. However if anyone has a character that can build 1 bar in a combo and does not sacrifice a large amount of damage by tag cancelling into a restand I would love to see it.

    Personally I feel that knockdowns in the corner aren't useless, just walking back out of roll distance gives you the advantage overall. Either they roll and you get meaty pressure or they stand in the corner and you still have the positional advantage. Midscreen is a different story, I try to go for corner carry combos.
  • ffffffff Joined: Posts: 167
    I was looking into this stuff but I'm just not seeing much use in it besides maybe Chun's restand. I feel like in most cases you're giving up too much damage or meter just for pressure. In a game like this where meter is so important, I'm not sure if spending meter on non-guaranteed damage like this is worth it, compared to tag cancelling specials into ambiguous jumpins for 400+ damage. However if anyone has a character that can build 1 bar in a combo and does not sacrifice a large amount of damage by tag cancelling into a restand I would love to see it.

    Personally I feel that knockdowns in the corner aren't useless, just walking back out of roll distance gives you the advantage overall. Either they roll and you get meaty pressure or they stand in the corner and you still have the positional advantage. Midscreen is a different story, I try to go for corner carry combos.

    I agree the corner is underrated. Just removing the ability to walk back from your opponent is extremely important. Combos are for the most part shorter and more difficult in the corner, but that's fine, because if you keep them in the corner you get more opportunities to start new ones, which is why I always stand just outside of roll range on KD when they're in the corner, I'm more than happy to let them wake up without pressure knowing they have no where to go and will fall right back into neutral pressure.
  • InfilInfil Waiting for shoryuken.com... Joined: Posts: 6,509 ✭✭✭✭
    I like your way of thinking UltraDavid. Instead of seeing the timer as an issue anymore, you think about time management and how it is another layer in the game. And the same thing about rolling. You don'l like it, so you treat "how to deny the opponent a roll" like a mini game inside the game. The way I understood it atleast. I like where this is going, and hope more tech is found!

    I still think the timer is a design issue that should be fixed, because it forces opponents to make bad mistakes in ways that often aren't realistically preventable, and it dictates that the best play is often runaway, even at stages of the clock where it shouldn't be. I think there are relatively easy fixes to the game engine to fix this, though. I used to hate rolls and thought they should be nerfed to hell, but I've gotten used to them a bit and it's often only a problem if you jump. If you stay grounded you can still get some pretty good pressure, not to mention any anti-roll tech that gets developed later (plus jumping is still an option, but it's now a read you have to make). Basically, I wouldn't mind rolls getting nerfed a touch (less distance? I dunno) but I think most SFxT players are being proactive with strategies against roll. Strategies against the timer seem to be "hit them and kill them faster than normal, take risks earlier than normal".

    Anyway, don't really want to hijack this thread and turn it into "how to fix SFxT". I do wish more people would take UD's attitude about working with what we have, rather than being constantly negative. I always like seeing unique offensive strategies and synergies so hopefully there's some nice viable tech that comes out of this standing reset stuff.
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  • AnneIFrankAnneIFrank Joined: Posts: 427
    Yoshi has Slap U Silly, Stone Fists, Windmill, his overhead chain, and HK/EX Posion Breath that all leave the opponent standing, with PB causing a crumple state,
  • leafcolonelleafcolonel Apprentice of Magnetism Joined: Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭
    Hmm I was messing with my team and Sagat's lk and mk Tiger Knees will cause a standing state post ground bounce but his HK TK does not for some weird reason, I'm 100% sure these ground bounce resets have to do with multi hitting moves so more labwork needs to do be done.
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    Hwoarang (ground bounce): 5MK > MK, can hold forward to transition to stance and recover faster
    An easy setup for this is by doing it right after his 6HK overhead.
    Edit: You can also combo into it, but it's tricky to do it from a hit-confirm because of pushback.
    5LP, 5MP > LP, 5MK (whiff) > MK
    2LK-5MK > MK > 3, 2LP-5MP > LP, 5MK (whiff) > MK
    FLA MK > LK > 3, 2LK-5MP > LP, 5MK (whiff) > MK

    Marduk (ground bounce): 5HP (f) > 2PP
    This isn't very practical to use. If the standing HP hits the opponent out of the ground bounce state, the tackle follow-up causes a standard knockdown.
    Edit:
    (Xiaoyu) AOP 214KK (switch to Marduk) step back, 5HP > 2PP
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,016 ✭✭
    Hmm I was messing with my team and Sagat's lk and mk Tiger Knees will cause a standing state post ground bounce but his HK TK does not for some weird reason, I'm 100% sure these ground bounce resets have to do with multi hitting moves so more labwork needs to do be done.
    I saw that ex tiger knee resets standing, didn't think to test the regular strengths for some reason.

    And yeah, this multi-hitting thing seems like a good answer. Not every multi-hitting move, but at least that's a way to narrow down which moves to test!
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  • CoinsCoins Two Coins!! Joined: Posts: 280
    i wish this game had more restand/reset of some kind for most character. My idea was maybe everyone should have a jump reset? There are way to many jump attacks thats are basically useless.. a good idea imo is maybe jump jab or short for example which gives the classic flip reset which gives oppurtunity for your character to maybe dash under or some high low mixup or grab of some kind. I also would like for some characters to have some grounded resets that arent glitches or hard to set up. I also think hard knockdown needs more time on the ground to give some players an option to jump on the other side without giving them the option to get up so they cant roll away. Some characters should also have normal specials with hard knock down in general that isnt some type of sweep or grab of some kind. More mixup oppurtunity in the corner.

    Also we need to remove QUICK combos lp+hk, lk+hp. I know not everyone likes OS, but they are here to stay and everyone should have acces to ones that benefit them some how.
    Rog, Dudley --- Fight Like Gentlemen!
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    Juri (ground bounce): MK Senpusha (214MK), 3rd hit only
    This doesn't seem too useful, having 25-28 recovery frames at the end.
    Edit:
    (Hwoarang/mid-screen) 214HK (switch 1st hit to Juri) wait for bounce, 214MK
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,016 ✭✭
    Can you list the setups you used for this, Marduk, and Hwoarang? Thanks for all your work!

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  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    I edited some example setups into my posts.
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,016 ✭✭
    Video for Nina, Juri, Marduk, Sagat, and Hwoarang:


    Thanks guys! Keep 'em coming if you can.
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  • SimSimIVSimSimIV 2nd. in command of the SFxT Defense Force Joined: Posts: 1,239 ✭✭
    I really like that you put some work in to spreading knowledge about SFxT once in a while, because this game sure needs some known players/commentators to show something else than hate for the game. I really think re-stands brings a new level of depth to the game. Anyone with lab access, please find a Dhalsim one:P
    Simsimiv: Little known fact: Tatsu shaved his head for SFxT
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  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,016 ✭✭
    Don't get me wrong, I think the game is poorly designed. But if we can figure out ways to use its poor design against it or come to understand things that first seem stupid as accidentally interesting and strategic, I think we can make this game better and longer lasting. A ton of moves in this game seem like they weren't designed to hit by themselves or otherwise glitch the opponent back into a standing state. That's evidence of a poorly made game. But you know what? We can take that deficiency and use it to help us make this game fun in spite of itself.
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  • rokninroknin Keeps Trying Joined: Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭✭✭
    snip

    Very true, and hey, some of the best/most abused tactics come from those kinds of things...
    ~ aka "ninrok" aka "waifufighter" ~
    SFxT - Cammy, Juri, Elena, Nina, Poison, Julia, Marduk, Law
    Smash | Samus, ROB, Dedede, ZSS, Ness | USF4 - Rose, Cammy, Poison
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  • ShinTheKidShinTheKid PSN: KrocoCola Joined: Posts: 111
    With Law:Standing Heavy Punch, Dragon Charge into Dragon Knuckle hit them with any normal preferably Standing Heavy punch so you can CADC or go into Dragon Charge again and boom profit.
  • PiepmatzPiepmatz Touch Fuzzy, Get Dizzy! Joined: Posts: 274
    [...] Jin's basically sucks anyway [...]

    Not anymore since they patched the game. Now his SS>MK no longer causes a stand when you tag in a partner and attack quickly, it rather causes the traditional backflip animation on any normal hit after it connects. I have a rather nifty setup with my Jin/Julia team: Do a Jin BnB up to the point of SS, instead of doing lp to juggle, do the mk ender and tag. With Julia coming in I can decide whether I want to cross or not by canceling the walk in early into a normal and cancel this normal into a Wind Roll on hit. Depending on the strength of the Wind Roll and the moment I canceled her run with the normal I can cross up or stay on the same side. this works in the corner as well as midscreen and is so ambiguous that I sometimes even don´t know which side I´ll land on.

    The Jin part does around 330 damage and can be extended with a Ex Swaying Willow before the reset part. If I have three meters I can do the Swaying Willow Bnb (~420dmg), then tag to Julia causing the reset and thus having a great chance at hitting my easy-confirmable 500 damage ender (Hp x CADCPC, HP x HK DP Tag to Jin...). Bam, nearly a character kill in this situation.

    Kazuya can do this too because his restand will also flip now.
    SFxT: Lei/Bob - Julia, Xiaoyou, Jin, Guy, Sakura, Christie
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  • d3vd3v #MAXCPM Fiber Override Joined: Posts: 23,911 mod
    Follow me on Twitter @D3Vlicious

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  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭
    I just finished checking every character for ground bounce resets/re-stands (there were 13 I didn't check before). This should be the last of them.

    Nina (ground bounce): Biting Snake 3rd hit (5LP > MP > LP)
    Rufus (ground bounce): 2HP
    #SFxT @ EFNet - It's better than SRK
  • DiscoCokkroachDiscoCokkroach Robot Master Joined: Posts: 139
    [Note: If someone already found something like this, please tell me and give me an A for effort >_>]

    I'm not really sure if this counts under the stated criteria for a "standing reset", but what I've been doing ever since that episode of the Tuesday Show on UCTV where you showcased them is this:

    Find a (preferably meterless) capture-type special that leaves the opponent standing after the last hit, combo into into it, Switch Cancel, then go for a mix-up when the special finishes.

    Here's what I use:

    [Yoshimitsu]
    Special: Non-EX Sword Poke Windmill (all versions are the same)

    Example: deep j.HP/cross-up j.MK, cl.MP xx Windmill, Switch Cancel, mixup

    Notes: You have to take a few steps backwards when you get control of the incoming character if you want to go for an ambiguous cross-up situation, but otherwise your good to go (if this is unclear, I'll try to shoot a vid of it). Yoshi's close standing MP is plus on block (gasp!), so if you see them blocking, try to stop before you Windmill, and possibly go into a block string.

    [Ken]
    Special: HK Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku

    Example: cross-up j.MK, cl.MP > cl.HP xx HK Tatsu, Switch Cancel, mixup

    Notes: With this one, you have to walk forward with your other character while Ken is still doing HK Tatsu, then jump towards when/just before he does the last hit (this may differ from character to character; I've only used this w/Yoshi). If you don't wait until he's done, then your opponent will be pushed too far away for you to create an ambiguous cross-up situation and you'll just get a standard jump-in (although there are mix-ups that can result from that, as well, so I suppose this gives you even more options). Use Ken's MP > HP target combo as a hit confirm and cancel into Hadoken if they're blocking to avoid getting yourself killed from a blocked Tatsu.

    These aren't resets in a true sense, but they give you a very similar situation to a reset, and they're much easier to set-up since you don't need a ground bounce and some weird normal.

    Perhaps the best part of using this method (which I'll call a "capture reset" for now) is the freedom that the Switch Cancel gives you:

    • You can decide to not go for a capture reset and just continue the combo if you wish; if you know you can get a K.O., then do it!
    • If you have two characters than can capture reset, then you can continuously capture reset until you run out of Cross Gauge. In fact, since you'll be building lots of meter if you get a successful mix-up, you might be able to do more than three Switch Cancels.
    • If something backfires and they end up blocking your capture-type special, guess what? Switch Cancel to safety!
    • As long as you have one character who can capture reset, anyone can be the incoming character for your mix-up!

    I'll try to get a video of it up soon (I have a CRT, though >_>). I find this really useful in my matches and have been able to achieve SFIV levels of oki with it, IMO.
    Amingo is great he has both kinds of options Jumping High Kick and ducking light kick
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  • jrmillionairejrmillionaire Joined: Posts: 15
    it be good if somebody could take some time to put together a video showcasing all the Reset tech been discovered
    so far all character + DLC.. standing and ground bounce resets. it would be very helpful to many players

    is there a Raven reset?
  • SUPARNOVAXSUPARNOVAX 必殺技 Joined: Posts: 5,241
    it be good if somebody could take some time to put together a video showcasing all the Reset tech been discovered
    so far all character + DLC.. standing and ground bounce resets. it would be very helpful to many players

    is there a Raven reset?
    Doesn't seem like he has one discovered yet, he seems more like he would need someone to reset for him.
    "Defeat is a state of mind. No one is ever defeated until defeat has been accepted as reality. To me, defeat in anything is merely temporary, and its punishment is but an urge for me to greater effort to achieve my goal. Defeat simply tells me that something is wrong in my doing; it is a path leading to success and truth." ~ Bruce Lee
  • SimSimIVSimSimIV 2nd. in command of the SFxT Defense Force Joined: Posts: 1,239 ✭✭
    DRU192 aka RAWTAG, uploaded a clip from a match if his against a Jin x Ibuki player who used a very effective standing reset. If anyone has the ability to save and upload 6 replays of these guys playing on PSN, in decent quality, just post here and I'll set it up!

    Here is the clip:
    Simsimiv: Little known fact: Tatsu shaved his head for SFxT
    Shaniril: I thought he shaved his head for the children
    Tatsunical: for the sfxt playing children
    Tatsunical: the children that play marvel can go f**k themselves
  • rokninroknin Keeps Trying Joined: Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭✭✭
    DRU192 aka RAWTAG, uploaded a clip from a match if his against a Jin x Ibuki player who used a very effective standing reset. If anyone has the ability to save and upload 6 replays of these guys playing on PSN, in decent quality, just post here and I'll set it up!

    What the heck...? Interesting. O_O

    That was pretty damn sick.
    ~ aka "ninrok" aka "waifufighter" ~
    SFxT - Cammy, Juri, Elena, Nina, Poison, Julia, Marduk, Law
    Smash | Samus, ROB, Dedede, ZSS, Ness | USF4 - Rose, Cammy, Poison
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