Hardest Characters To Use?

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  • PrototypeKHPrototypeKH Joined: Posts: 34
    I'm surprised "Phoenix on point" hasn't been raised as a candidate.

    Haha. That's because not only is it unconventional, but it's very unwise. But, if someone DOES use Phoenix on point, they have my respect.
  • .Guy..Guy. STUPID SEXY ROCKET RACCOON! Joined: Posts: 2,020
    I'm surprised "Phoenix on point" hasn't been raised as a candidate.
    That character isn't in this game.
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  • ThirteenthorderThirteenthorder Gloria? Never heard of the girl. #kappa Joined: Posts: 1,349
    That character isn't in this game.

    I've drafted teams that have utilized her on point. If the match starts going in her favor, they're unstoppable. And of course she's fundamentally a very fun character to play.

    As I've always said, I would have preferred an 850k Phoenix with a slightly buffed Lv. 1 transformation (a la Devil Form) than this mess.

    But I digress.
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 697
    ...

    I didn't mean to press of your buttons, pun unintended, when I said I thought it was amusing that people were using race analogies to argue their point. I assume everything's pretty lighthearted here as we are talking about video games, but your response is evident to the contrary. Or I'm failing to see the same lightheartedness I mentioned.

    Throughout this thread I mentioned a few characters who I thought were hard to use, though I didn't discern who was the hardest to use between them. Though, I should make the distinction between something being harder than something else, and something actually being hard. Like, dp motion is harder than hadouken motion, but neither motions are actually hard.

    And that's pretty much the game execution wise, shoryuken, hadouken and semi-cirle motions. Anything added to complicate these, i.e. tk'ing the motion, would add as much to the execution required. Off the top of my head (and only thinking of techniques), the only things on the same level of difficulty or greater than that of the LL's are the rapid seismos, viper balls, the aforementioned hyper-grav and ROMs and their variations, or trying to implement some extended techniques from mid-screen, like Dr Strange's flames of faltine loop. And it seems that Shuma Gorath is the only character whose general play is based off anything more. But none of this isn't to say that a character's difficulty in use is based solely on their level of execution.

    I'm not trying to change opinions about why I think Zero's is hard, so I won't go into it any further. However, I do disagree with what you said about Magneto, but that could be because we have different measures of what 'pretty far' is.

    However I'm deciding to no comment those 'you must be a beginner' points.
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 697
    I've drafted teams that have utilized her on point. If the match starts going in her favor, they're unstoppable. And of course she's fundamentally a very fun character to play.

    As I've always said, I would have preferred an 850k Phoenix with a slightly buffed Lv. 1 transformation (a la Devil Form) than this mess.

    But I digress.

    I generally had it as a rule of thumb that if Champ got 3 bars, he would get a dark Phoenix lol. I'm a fan of Strider point, but I'd say if you had the fundamentals to use Phoenix on point, you'd be even more dangerous with other, 'less risky' characters, lol.
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 8,306
    You have to be really stupid to think an 850k health phoenix would be even remotely balanced.
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
    Youtube(random doom TAC help, doom combos, ammy stuff, shuma combos and tech): http://www.youtube.com/user/Clickclakmoo?feature=mhee Danke on shuma gorath: "He who sleeps but shouldn't have costed me 5 dollars."
  • JetpackJesus808JetpackJesus808 I wish Lee was in SFxT Joined: Posts: 847
    You have to be really stupid to think an 850k health phoenix would be even remotely balanced.
    1) Remove healing field
    2) Make DP Rises a lvl3 hyper, but make it so that XFactor does not override the constant health drain, and he health drain can KO her instead of leaving her with a magic pixel.
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  • .Guy..Guy. STUPID SEXY ROCKET RACCOON! Joined: Posts: 2,020
    1) Remove healing field
    2) Make DP Rises a lvl3 hyper, but make it so that XFactor does not override the constant health drain, and he health drain can KO her instead of leaving her with a magic pixel.
    3) no
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  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 8,306
    1) Remove healing field
    2) Make DP Rises a lvl3 hyper, but make it so that XFactor does not override the constant health drain, and he health drain can KO her instead of leaving her with a magic pixel.
    See here's the problem. She has a tracking fireball that she can shoot 3 times in the air. She has a omni directional tracking teleport air ok that also side switches in the corner. She has an AMAZING 8 way dash and flight. She has a move that beats almost every option in the game that has good frame data. She has an invincible super. That does not sound like someone I would give 850k health too.
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
    Youtube(random doom TAC help, doom combos, ammy stuff, shuma combos and tech): http://www.youtube.com/user/Clickclakmoo?feature=mhee Danke on shuma gorath: "He who sleeps but shouldn't have costed me 5 dollars."
  • JetpackJesus808JetpackJesus808 I wish Lee was in SFxT Joined: Posts: 847
    See here's the problem. She has a tracking fireball that she can shoot 3 times in the air. She has a omni directional tracking teleport air ok that also side switches in the corner. She has an AMAZING 8 way dash and flight. She has a move that beats almost every option in the game that has good frame data. She has an invincible super. That does not sound like someone I would give 850k health too.
    700k?
    UMvC3: Skrull/Joe/Akuma  TTT2: Purple/Pheonix  SFxT: Poison/Raven, learning Steve  AE2012: Rose, Sagat
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  • maziodynemaziodyne Demi-Fiend Joined: Posts: 7,748
    She has a omni directional tracking teleport air ok that also side switches in the corner.

    Her teleport does not crossup in the corner, like Strange's. That's its only drawback, and it's actually a pretty big setback for her left-right corner oki. Who cares though; she still has a really good tridash like you said.

    Her damage outside of Dark Phoenix is pretty ass too, but that's mostly for meter building purposes anyway.
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 8,306
    Her teleport does not crossup in the corner, like Strange's. That's its only drawback, and it's actually a pretty big setback for her left-right corner oki. Who cares though; she still has a really good tridash like you said.

    Her damage outside of Dark Phoenix is pretty ass too, but that's mostly for meter building purposes anyway.
    Thanks for the correction. That was my bad. Bitch would still be crazy with that much life even with low damage. Even if people found her damage really bad, there are options that would easily make her s tier. To start, I don't think low damage is nearly as big of a deal as people make it out to be. TAC infinites are the easy way to solve this, but no one seems to realize this. Given, you are basing your damage on a guess, but it's still better than dealing 500k damage. She has so many options for opening people up that it's disgusting. Not to mention, you could always run her anchor with 800k health akuma style since her assist is actually quite good. She's also a solid anchor without dark phoenix. I honestly cannot imagine champ with a 800k phoenix and the ability to play her while having her good assist and being able to use meter freely since most of his phoenix wins are with normal jean.
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
    Youtube(random doom TAC help, doom combos, ammy stuff, shuma combos and tech): http://www.youtube.com/user/Clickclakmoo?feature=mhee Danke on shuma gorath: "He who sleeps but shouldn't have costed me 5 dollars."
  • NooneyouknowNooneyouknow Joined: Posts: 2,654
    If I had a 600k Jean I'd be tempted to run her point all day every day, and if not point, she'd always be in the back as an assist.
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  • All_luckysAll_luckys Joined: Posts: 116
    phoenix is a viable and interesting character that changes fundamentally how the game is supposed to be played and rewards solid point play with a focus on
    resets an overwhelming advantage once they hit the 5 meter mark with the games most powerful character there is a lot of anti phoenix tech but the team still effective despite this. If she was a 750 health character with a large tool kit and lol damage she would be about as used as storm. Btw the that TAC air dash cancel glitch is pretty huge bs for Phoenix players.

    Frank west is another example of a greatly executed multi tired character that has great risk reward if your point character can execute you get an S tire character that swings the match heavily in your favor if your point dies with out you getting that TAC you have a doable but up hill battle ahead of you. they both make the game more interesting with there presence.

    phoenix wright pisses me off because they could of done it a lot better by making it less about luck and more about skill kinda of like how bang gets his seals in blaze blue his a multiple tired character that gets a powerful transformation mode that he has to build up over the course of a match.
  • eivellordsm2eivellordsm2 Macho Barbarian dongzilla Joined: Posts: 1,334
    hardest to use has to be vergil pressing H and moving a stick about must be really hard...
  • NonSexualRiceNonSexualRice Riding The VaporWave Joined: Posts: 3,585
    Frank west, even at 5 is not S tier.
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  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 3,619
    Wesker and Vergil

    69q0jq.png
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  • lazygokulazygoku Joined: Posts: 14
    chun li and iron fist, no idea wat to do with raccoon either
  • Intuitive2011Intuitive2011 Cr.Mk XX Hadoken Joined: Posts: 3,642
    Wesker, hands down. Toughest execution and sub par normals.
    "Often times, a loss will strengthen and benefit the player more than a win, so I would say don't be afraid of losing and keeping competing." ~Infiltration
  • lazygokulazygoku Joined: Posts: 14
    wesker is easy i think :/
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 8,306
    wesker is easy i think :/
    Not as easy as sarcasm on the internet
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
    Youtube(random doom TAC help, doom combos, ammy stuff, shuma combos and tech): http://www.youtube.com/user/Clickclakmoo?feature=mhee Danke on shuma gorath: "He who sleeps but shouldn't have costed me 5 dollars."
  • lazygokulazygoku Joined: Posts: 14
    Not as easy as sarcasm on the internet
    urm....bazinga?
  • The Real SophosThe Real Sophos Joined: Posts: 60
    Having played the following (to an extent of understanding and actually learning combos/winning games online etc)

    Iron Fist, Haggar, Hulk, Sentinel, Skrull, Doom, Arthur, Chris, Shuma, Strange, Dorm, Wolvie, Spider-Man, Jill, Frank West, Firebrand, PW, Modok, Thor, Taskmaster, Ammy, Joe...

    I would say that by far the most difficult is what I am currently using; Spider-Man/Jill.

    Shuma is NOT that difficult. His mystic stare combos are almost impossible online however.
    Strange is not hard, solo mix-ups.
    PW isn't that hard with the right assists.
    Modok is actually rather easy (just had to get used to his movement)
    Firebrand was very easy to learn, so was Thor.
    Iron Fist is extremely easy, everything is just qcf and qcb... then again I have played Fei Long since SF2.

    This is all from my personal experience. Obviously not the end-all be-all, but from the variety I have played... yeah.


    Oh and Doom is so god damn easy, my friend learned doom in ~40 minutes, after having never touched the game... ever. He was doing his BNB in no-time.
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 8,306
    ^I think you are thinking about on a surface level. Firebrand is not easy if you want to play with insane mobility.
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
    Youtube(random doom TAC help, doom combos, ammy stuff, shuma combos and tech): http://www.youtube.com/user/Clickclakmoo?feature=mhee Danke on shuma gorath: "He who sleeps but shouldn't have costed me 5 dollars."
  • NonSexualRiceNonSexualRice Riding The VaporWave Joined: Posts: 3,585
    Having played the following (to an extent of understanding and actually learning combos/winning games online etc)

    Iron Fist, Haggar, Hulk, Sentinel, Skrull, Doom, Arthur, Chris, Shuma, Strange, Dorm, Wolvie, Spider-Man, Jill, Frank West, Firebrand, PW, Modok, Thor, Taskmaster, Ammy, Joe...

    I would say that by far the most difficult is what I am currently using; Spider-Man/Jill.

    Shuma is NOT that difficult..

    Stopped reading here.

    lol @ Jill being "difficult" and Shuma being not difficult.
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  • DreizeDreize How quaint... Joined: Posts: 1,333
    Completely disagree with Shuma, Iron Fist, and M.O.D.O.K.

    I'd write an essay to tell you why, but I'm not in the mood.
  • The Real SophosThe Real Sophos Joined: Posts: 60
    Stopped reading here.

    lol @ Jill being "difficult" and Shuma being not difficult.

    I am having far more trouble with Jill than I ever did with Shuma.

    Maybe you should have kept reading to the sentence "This is all from my personal experience. Obviously not the end-all be-all, but from the variety I have played... yeah."

    You may have helped me a lot in the Jill thread, but you made yourself look like a moron here.
  • DreizeDreize How quaint... Joined: Posts: 1,333
    And it begins.
  • NonSexualRiceNonSexualRice Riding The VaporWave Joined: Posts: 3,585
    I am having far more trouble with Jill than I ever did with Shuma.

    Maybe you should have kept reading to the sentence "This is all from my personal experience. Obviously not the end-all be-all, but from the variety I have played... yeah."

    You may have helped me a lot in the Jill thread, but you made yourself look like a moron here.

    Then your not playing Either at a optimum level or even near optimum level.

    Contrary to popular belief, opinions can be wrong. Saying that Jill is in any way shape or form any more difficult than shuma is a blatant falsity. Jill requires NO advanced movements and only relies on 22S motions to get by. For christ sake, it's like Playing a Faster she-Hulk. Her execution is literally 1/3 of that of Amaterasu. Shuma requires CHARGE PARTITIONING AND PLINK DASHING AT THE SAME TIME just to move in a somewhat "mobile" (for his standards) manner.

    Execution wise, Neutral game wise, difficulty wise, and hell EVERYTHING wise (but except being better of course) Shuma has jill beat.

    Adding "personal-experience" is redundant on a forum based off of discussing personal opinions and frame-data.
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  • The Real SophosThe Real Sophos Joined: Posts: 60
    Adding "personal-experience" is redundant on a forum based off of discussing personal opinions

    Come again?
  • NonSexualRiceNonSexualRice Riding The VaporWave Joined: Posts: 3,585
    Come again?

    Forum-
    1. A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
    Everything that is discussed on a forum is personal experience. Adding "My personal Experience" when a forum is used to discuss ideas on a topic based off your personal experience is redundant.
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  • PrototypeKHPrototypeKH Joined: Posts: 34
    Forum-
    1. A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
    Everything that is discussed on a forum is personal experience. Adding "My personal Experience" when a forum is used to discuss ideas on a topic based off your personal experience is redundant.


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  • DeskLampTVDeskLampTV Joined: Posts: 890
  • PrototypeKHPrototypeKH Joined: Posts: 34
    Fixed.

    Burning my Burn? That seemed unnecessary... Have at you!
  • DeskLampTVDeskLampTV Joined: Posts: 890
    Burning my Burn? That seemed unnecessary... Have at you!
    Are you challenging me to a duel?
  • NonSexualRiceNonSexualRice Riding The VaporWave Joined: Posts: 3,585
    You may have helped me a lot in the Jill thread, but you made yourself look like a moron here.

    Just re-read this. Wasn't there when I posted, but ironically was there when I quoted.

    Either way, lol.
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  • DeskLampTVDeskLampTV Joined: Posts: 890
    Just wondering, how the hell would you charge buttons and plink dash at the same time? Would you have to plink dash with only two buttons or something?
  • NonSexualRiceNonSexualRice Riding The VaporWave Joined: Posts: 3,585
    Just wondering, how the hell would you charge buttons and plink dash at the same time? Would you have to plink dash with only two buttons or something?

    Hate charge characters with a passion in UMVC3, and maining Chun-Li in Vanilla and early ultimate caused me to hate them even more.

    Well I don't have that large of a grasp on CP, however I guess you would have to Piano-Key the p link out while holding down the charge and letting go for a small amount of frames or something of that effect ( so you can do the p-link dash) then going back into the charge move since it should be all charged up without you having held it down

    I hope that make sense, I suck at explaining Technical shit like that.
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  • DeskLampTVDeskLampTV Joined: Posts: 890
    I think I get what you are saying. Instead of hitting heavy and then hitting both light and medium together, you have to hit medium and then light. For CP, you can switch the button that you charge, right?
  • NonSexualRiceNonSexualRice Riding The VaporWave Joined: Posts: 3,585
    I think I get what you are saying. Instead of hitting heavy and then hitting both light and medium together, you have to hit medium and then light. For CP, you can switch the button that you charge, right?

    Well, not really. CP is doing an action (in this case p-linking) while not holding that direction specifically, and only going back to holding that direction once the charge is charged.
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