Patch Q: Would you prefer a slight speed increase?

Mike_Z

Hey! Hey, listen! I have a question for anyone who feels like answering. Please encourage your friends to vote, or if you don't have friends then tell people on other forums. The more responses, the better.

One of the things I can do in the Skullgirls patch is change the frameskip. After testing, I sorta prefer a 3% speed increase, and the few people I've had try it also seem to prefer it. However, I'm curious how many people prefer the fact that it's currently fairly slow.

Further clarification:
Changing the frameskip number in SG doesn't change the actual gameplay at all. Frame data remains the same. This is purely an aesthetic question.
All the gameplay still happens the same way it does now - assists are still vulnerable for two frames of game time, moves are still active for the same amount of time, just that some of the frames happen without being shown to the player...but SG already does that even now. (^.^) The reason I'm even CONSIDERING this is because it ISN'T a change to gameplay except for the feel. Even increasing the game speed to 150% wouldn't change how anything works, it would just mean you have to do your inputs a whole lot faster.

[edit] For those curious, a 3% speed increase is enough so you can feel it when moving around, but it doesn't affect the timing of combos a whole lot. It's equivalent to dropping about 2 frames out of 60 (2 / sec).

[edit 2] Given the average movement speed and attack startup, GG is about 3% faster than SG. :^)

I'll be bringing a sped-up build to WNF this week, so anyone who can make it to Super Arcade should go. In the meantime, vote! You have something like 3 days. :^P

Number 13

Yes Mike Z a tad speed increase won't hurt overall and will result into more fast-paced gameplay thats a bit more marvel 2 level got no problems with this ^-^ I'll tune in on WNF to see how this ends up.

DaRabidDuckie

A speed increase would be fantastic, especially with the changes coming to the chain system!

Age_of_Fools

I voted no. Not because I think a faster version couldn't be as good/better, but because I don't know for sure. I like the current pace of the game so there's no incentive for me to want it changed.

If it does end up in the patch, would it be optional?

Sanger Zonvolt

I'm currently happy with the speed myself.

Austin_QED

Funny thing, when my friends and I first got our hands on SG (By this, I mean I forced them to play this, or I wouldn't take them out of my whining singularity), a couple of them complained about the speed of the gameplay, calling it "too slow".

I responded that it feels too slow because you're taking prior knowledge of fighting games (in his case, ST) and trying to make it fit into SG.

I personally like the speed of SG, it allows me to accurately assess a situation without fumbling over shit.

The speed reminds me of GG, and not MVC3 (where shit is so frantic, that more than once, you'll here someone yell "what just happened?", not because of an insane mixup, but with the amount of assists, speed of the game, and nature of it, it kind of adheres to chaotic shit.)

Some people like chaotic, I don't.

But then again, I honestly don't know what "3%" is, so I guess I have to wait until watching WNF to give judgement.

But I feel that the faster you make a game like SG (one that uses assists and 4 different things can happen at once on screen) the weirder footsies feel.

EDIT:Oh, then I DO want it to stay the same, because there were moments where I felt that I would enjoy GG more if it was a tad bit slower.

Mike_Z

This is why I started a poll! :^)

Hmm. I could implement a Normal-Turbo option, but that splits the community and the online/tournament standard would have to be one or the other anyway...so if it made the cut I would probably make it the only choice.

[edit] Given the average movement speed and attack startup, GG is about 3% faster than SG. :^) I'll put this in the first post, too.

Hawkingbird

I'm satisfied with the current speed of the game. I don't think it needs to be changed

DRaGZ141

No, don't do the normal-turbo option.

Here's the thing. I voted "no" primarily because it seems like it would be a big gameplay system change when there's already a big gameplay system change coming through the pipeline (the IPS changes).

However...I'll be honest, if it was 3% faster on release, I probably would've preferred that.

Number 13

Mike_Z, post: 7025046, member: 504 wrote:

This is why I started a poll! :^)


[edit] Given the average movement speed and attack startup, GG is about 3% faster than SG. :^) I'll put this in the first post, too.

Ah thats a better picture for comparison. GG was not a terrible fast game so SG at GG level i doubt would become an issue and would probably work well with the revamped IPS that nerfs all the characters overall damage output possibilities

Dark Radiance

What is it that you're trying to do with game? It's fine how it is. Please don't try and turn this game into another MvC3. That's all I ask for at this point man. But it's your game, man... But in the end it's your game, so I guess we have to play whatever you want us to if we wanna play the game. sigh.

freeAM

Mike_Z, post: 7025003, member: 504 wrote:

[edit 2] Given the average movement speed and attack startup, GG is about 3% faster than SG. :^)

Ok, I'm sold.

ghosties

dunno how a speed increase would make it like MvC3. iirc a lot of the games overall system was inspired by various good games, including MvC2 which was ridiculously fast pace. plus most people seem to find it similar to anime fighting games (like Guilty Gear), which are usually defined by being so fast.

i think a 3% speed increase wouldn't hurt the game in any way, and if it feels overall better for the testers at WNF i'd say go for it. most people here are just going to think it's bad since it's something different and affects the overall feel of the game, but knowing GG i doubt it would be that severe.

Mike_Z

Dark Radiance, post: 7025061, member: 38527 wrote:

What is it that you're trying to do with game? It's fine how it is. Please don't try and turn this game into another MvC3. That's all I ask for at this point man. But it's your game, man... But in the end it's your game, so I guess we have to play whatever you want us to if we wanna play the game. sigh.

This is an interesting response to a public poll...I mean, I could understand this response if I weren't ASKING you, but I am.

Ian Conway

would be awesome, I feel your given too much time to respond to stuff, maybe 6% or a little bit more.

I think pacing in general is better with more speed.

Kikuichimonji

How can you increase the game by an arbitrary 3% when moves are counted in discrete frames? A move that was 33 frames will be 32 frames, but a move that's like 6 frames will probably still be 6 frames right? I don't really understand what a speed increase of 3% means.

DRaGZ141

Kikuichimonji, post: 7025110, member: 11194 wrote:

How can you increase the game by an arbitrary 3% when moves are counted in discrete frames? A move that was 33 frames will be 32 frames, but a move that's like 6 frames will probably still be 6 frames right? I don't really understand what a speed increase of 3% means.

It means he increases the frame skip, which Skullgirls already does.

Dime_x

the slower the game the smarter it is. the faster it is the more people are allowed to get away with... stuff and use things that have less fundamental relevance. i vote no on a speed increase. people already cant react to the resets much, if the speed were increased it would just make neutral even more of a crapshoot and the fast characters like val would be even better. whereas the same point couldnt be said of the slower characters like bella where the speed increase would help but not as much as it would the pixies.


-dime

Honor Basquiat

I really love how you continue to reach out to the community for feedback for this type of stuff Mike.

I need to think of it, but for now I think I'm with Age of Fools, I really like everything now, what aint broken don't need fixin'. So I don't really have an incentive for it. At the same time, if it made dashing and air dashing faster, getting around, that could be cool.

Ian Conway

Dime_x, post: 7025118, member: 4896 wrote:

the slower the game the smarter it is. the faster it is the more people are allowed to get away with... stuff and use things that have less fundamental relevance. i vote no on a speed increase. people already cant react to the resets much, if the speed were increased it would just make neutral even more of a crapshoot and the fast characters like val would be even better. whereas the same point couldnt be said of the slower characters like bella where the speed increase would help but not as much as it would the pixies.


-dime

getting away with stuff is fine, resets are based on prediction in this game anyway. A 3-6% increase will only give a tad less time to respond to things, alot of the punishes in this game are extremely easy to react to. Also, a game being too slow so that you can react to everything makes it less strategic in my mind, your closing off tons of options cause its easier to react with hard counters. If the game is too slow the reversals always win against jump ins if you take it to the extreme.

GrayFox814

Well at present I'm against the change. Ho hum.

But I really wanna try this out. Might have to bug my friend to take me to WNF.

Honor Basquiat, post: 7025124, member: 34634 wrote:

I really love how you continue to reach out to the community for feedback for this type of stuff Mike.

I need to think of it, but for now I think I'm with Age of Fools, I really like everything now, what aint broken don't need fixin'. So I don't really have an incentive for it. At the same time, if it made dashing and air dashing faster, getting around, that could be cool.

It will make...everything faster. It would be like playing in 2x speed mode in brawl or melee, except this change will be barely noticeable.

GHNeko

I'd have to say that I'm more against it than I am for it. There are some issues I see in the game that keep me from wanting it to be faster.

ironboy89

SG isn't really chaotic. Assist don't die in seconds, incoming mixups aren't as dumb as they are UMVC3, etc. The only reason why increasing frame rate speed might be dangerous is because of the throw tech window.

I don't see why not, so I vote yes.

stickystaines

I'm for it; always felt it could be a bit faster overall.

Mike_Z

Kikuichimonji, post: 7025110, member: 11194 wrote:

How can you increase the game by an arbitrary 3% when moves are counted in discrete frames? A move that was 33 frames will be 32 frames, but a move that's like 6 frames will probably still be 6 frames right? I don't really understand what a speed increase of 3% means.

A good article on frameskip:
http://combovid.com/?p=5002
(Interestingly, this seems to indicate that the difference between Turbo 1 and Turbo 2 in HDRemix is 3%, if you want to see what that difference means...)

worldjem7

After playing SG for a while, I played BB and I was surprised how much faster it is compared to SkullGirls.

It's not terribly faster, but it's noticeable. I think the 3% increase would be perfectly fine.

Austin_QED

worldjem7, post: 7025182, member: 8433 wrote:

After playing SG for a while, I played BB and I was surprised how much faster it is compared to SkullGirls.

It's not terribly faster, but it's noticeable. I think the 3% increase would be perfectly fine.

I think it is a lot faster, especially when it comes to air dashing.

Honor Basquiat

You know on one hand I trust Mike's judgement and I don't think he'd be considering or pushing for something like this if it weren't a good idea, but at the same time, I like the idea of letting the game settle for a few months before making fundamental changes like game speed. It hasn't even been 2 months yet but were talking about a speed increase, that feels a little overwhelming to be honest.

Number 13

Honor Basquiat, post: 7025196, member: 34634 wrote:

You know on one hand I trust Mike's judgement and I don't think he'd be considering or pushing for something like this if it weren't a good idea, but at the same time, I like the idea of letting the game settle for a few months before making fundamental changes like game speed. It hasn't even been 2 months yet but were talking about a speed increase, that feels a little overwhelming to be honest.

Its already been mentioned why these sudden changes of a roughly 1+ month game was due to taking advantage of the green lit patch by fixing the EU PSN. They don't know the next time a balance patch would come and wanted to fix any issues that were known and unknown to the players. It was a "now or never" scenario. Thus why they are trying to do many things in this patch and that includes the recently announced minor speed increase to the gameplay.

Taasi23

I shall reserve my official judgement on any potential speed increase until I've seen and heard it on the WNF stream, but I will say that I love the game for what it is right now and that I personally haven't felt the need for a speed increase. However, I trust your judgement and the judgement of the players at WNF, and if you all think that a speed increse will improve this already stellar fighting game then I yeild to your undoubtably superior insight.

Having said all that, I voted no. Simply because I'd rather not see two rather dramatic system changes implemented in the same patch. If it's now or never, then go with your heart, but if it's all the same to you and the Reverge crew I'd rather wrap my head around the IPS and chain shanges while playing at the same speed to which I have become accustomed.

P.S. I don't think I've said it yet, but thank you for the excellent fighting game. :)

SteelyHawke

OMG

It makes so happy that you are actually considering this. I personally have been wanting to see a slight speed increase after playing so much Vampire Savior. This sounds like just the right amount as well. Slow games are fun, but I just want the faster walkspeed really bad right now. The only 2D fighter with a fantastic walkspeed at the moment is KOF XIII(iirc), but I'm trying to concentrate on Skullgirls as my main 2D fighter.

Thank you so much for actually considering this change. This news combined with VF5's close launch date and a new GG has made my day for sure!

Dime_x, post: 7025118, member: 4896 wrote:

the slower the game the smarter it is. the faster it is the more people are allowed to get away with... stuff and use things that have less fundamental relevance. i vote no on a speed increase. people already cant react to the resets much, if the speed were increased it would just make neutral even more of a crapshoot and the fast characters like val would be even better. whereas the same point couldnt be said of the slower characters like bella where the speed increase would help but not as much as it would the pixies.

-dime

That is a pretty weird way to think about it considering the fact that the patch will reduce combo length/damage and allow players to tech throw resets more easily. It's not like we are talking VSav Jon Talbain/XF3 Wesker speed here. It's a very tiny increase that gives us another 2D fighter with a great sense of speed. There are a lot of fighters on the market right now with a slower pace as it is.

I'm just so hyped about this as someone who has spent the last year sharpening his teeth on VSav in anticipation of this game.

Edit: Oh man...

You couldn't be more wrong about this change benefiting the fast characters most. I play Hsien-Ko in VSav and she pretty much has the worst walk speed in the game with no good runs/dashes(Bella), good crossups or amazing teleports(Peaock) to speak of, but she benefits from her great air game and solid hitboxes. A great overall speed is beneficial for all the characters and even big mofos like Victor and Cerebella can benefit from a faster speed(especially if they have good air options). It gives people more options if they have the dexterity and it works well with characters who have great hitboxes. It also helps people avoid fuzzy situations if they have good timing. A great walk and air retreat adds more options against strong assists like Napalm Pillar and Hornet Bomber when you KNOW that you can do more than DP or block.

Red Rick Dias

Hey Mike,

Really cool of you to ask us about this in the time leading up to the patch! Speaking solely for myself, I voted No because I am happy with the current speed of the game and enjoy it. However, this should be interpreted as "No, but I'll live if you go through with it anyway. 3 percent or roughly 2 frames faster doesn't sound ridiculous."

Since others are interested in it, I have no huge stake in a matter of three percent faster (Now, if it were 33% faster you could market it as Skullgirls: Char Aznable Custom Edition...), and you have said you prefer it? I'm willing to go along with that despite my 'objection.' Give it a try, it sounds like something that could turn out very well.

Dan's Student

YES!

Jamp

No, I'm fine with the game speed as is so I voted no, though I wouldn't really mind a speed upgrade.

But I do agree that a Normal-Turbo option is a no-no.

.42.

Whichever way you go don't implement a turbo/normal option. Giving people choices is not always the best way.

Zombie4u

No thank you. I really like the speed just the way it is. I dig being able to actually see the animation.

SteelyHawke

.42., post: 7025312, member: 12743 wrote:

Whichever way you go don't implement a turbo/normal option. Giving people choices is not always the best way.

I definitely agree with this. It might have been a cool option at first if the community decided to go Turbo, but it may as well be patched to be slightly faster by default. Trying to get people in the FGC to agree with each other on something like this is like trying to herd a bunch of cats.

AndoTheCommando

I don't see why not.

TheDarkPhoenix

It is a bit slow, I felt like from day one it was just a tad bit to slow. I'm for upping the speed.

ukyo_rulz

I voted no. Faster gameplay just seems like it would make the game a harder sell to new players, and I think it would also make online lag more of an issue.

Zidiane

I would love to see a speed increase... but I don't know, I could not like it and be stuck with it forever... Then again, it's only a 3% difference... but It could be just enough to make it not as good... However, this would definitely speed things up, and make it run even smoother... or it could ruin the flow and unbalance the pace...

Internal Dilemma. My opinion: I like playing people. If a speed increase makes more people play, I'd love that.

Yadi

i play gg and skullgirls is way slower than bb and gg, even though i don't like bb i'd rather play that as of now with the game at its current speed. I agree with a speed increase because gg isn't retard fast like umvc3. I was going to buy this game on launch but when i downloaded the trial the game wasn't too pad friendly and a bit to slow for my tastes. one big reason i think you should raise speed some is for the simple fact that assists are faster than the characters on this game at the current speed. Not that it matters but if you did a speed change i would definately pick this up.

keo-bas

I vote no. This game hasn't had enough time to really grow. If the speed of the game was truly a problem, then I believe we've would had heard about it in its development process. I know Skull girl in earliest development was even slower but was eventually brought to the current. I'm against it due to the game needs more time to develope before such things be consider. Also while SG does borrow some elements of other games, it still needs bit of self individuality to identify it self. If it becomes to similar to other games, SG could potentially be over shadow by the other games. (GG>BB) (SF2T> Dark stalker 2) (SF3S>BF/Akastuki) (Soul calibure>Samurai showdown sen)

*While I must admit that Samurai showdown sen does have problem with its over all design, what primarily killed it was how similar it was to Soul calibure which was already well establish series in 3d weapon fighter)

But if Mike WANTS this change then I so go ahead and still play the game regardless much to my chagrin.

Multiples

Is this really necessary? I don't see how the overall speed of the game can be considered a problem compared to the things that are getting changed in the patch, so it seems like a pointless change to me.

Also, "It'll be more like GG!" is a terrible reason for the change, in my opinion. To me, it sounds no different than someone arguing for Ultra attacks so "It'll be more like SF4!" I like both of those games well enough, but neither of them are SG. The mechanics that are currently working shouldn't be changed just for the sake of changing them.

I would like to see some good reasons as to how this change would greatly improve SG if it were to be implemented.

(9)

Can't do anything but help, no need to split the community with a tubo-normal option either unless the option will be SG1.0 and SG2.0 since we'll have to hit the lab and see how to abuse the new system anyway. I honestly love seeing Painwheels and Filia play because they are so reset heavy. A speed increase with the new ips should bring more of that and our games closer to playervplayer than charactervcharacter.

evilweevle

speed feels pretty good for me already, i think it should just stay the same.
and yea a turbo option would divide the game too much.

i dunno, and 3% is not that much faster either, if its not a substantial number i kinda wonder what is the point?
i dont feel like the speed is a problem and ive never seen it mentioned on the forums before today.

Callisto

The game's current speed is perfect to me, but I'm a player of average skill and greatly prefer AE/BB over Marvel. I feel it's already somewhat difficult to defend mixups in the game(obviously subjective based in my skill level), especially in the corner. Any faster and I feel like it could go from an enjoyable challenge to more of a Marvel-ish HOLY CRAP HOW DO I BLOCK feeling...but 3% is also a pretty small number. I don't think I want an increase but it's not like I'd stop playing if it happened.

Pertho

I voted yes but if, and only if, you guys license Heavy Metal from Sammy Hagger so that it plays after the patch finishes updating the main game.

Why? Because a faster game will OUR ONE WAY TICKET TO MIDNIGHT!

Aabra

A speed increase now? We're talking about a totally different game once this gets released...

I guess it doesn't really matter anymore though at this point since the floodgates were already wide open. Since everything is getting dumped and we're starting out fresh then getting rid of the perma-blockstun situations would be nice as well. (Read: Parasoul / Cerebella + Cerecopter assist) You should never be absolutely forced to use meter in order to stop blocking. (And dealing with a 50-50 mixup every 3-4 seconds)

Combo_Knight

3 percent faster? I'm down for it. Especially with the changes, I think overall will make it feel like a new animal which is cool.

Deps

I like the idea. Small speed increase for a game that's pretty slow shouldn't hurt fundamentals. Should make spacing/footsies more fun.