Monkey Kung-Fu + Teenage Girls = Eileen thread

d0c_zaiusd0c_zaius tobal 2 missionaryJoined: Posts: 394
I switched to Eileen in VF5 and have never looked back, (although Taka looks pretty sick in VF:FS). Shes got deceptive range, good speed and some interesting movement tricks to keep people guessing.

I'll be updating this topic with Eileen info, bnb's, etc.

INFO(credit VFDC wiki):
Story

After losing both her parents at a young age, Eileen was raised by her grandfather, a martial arts master. In addition to her grandfather's training, she also spent much time studying with a Beijing opera troupe. One day, she happened to see a martial arts demonstration by Pai Chan, and was amazed by the beauty of her movements. Since then, Eileen thinks of little else besides finding some way to approach Pai.

Quotes
Opening
  1. Kya, kya, kya! Kakattekoi! (Hahaha! Come at me!)
  2. Wakaikaratte, namenaidene! (Since I'm young, don't underestimate me!)
  3. Ikkuwayo! Honkide kakattekitene! (Here we go! Take on me with all you've got!)
Win
  1. Wa~i, wa~i. Katchyatta. (Wai~, Wai~. I won.)
  2. Watashinimo kungfu, arunoyo! (Even I know Kung Fu!)
  3. Kiniaumadeni, mottotsuyokunattene! (Until we meet next time, get better ok!)
  4. Kyahahaha, Juunenhayakattawane. Na~nchiyatte. (You're 10 years too early. Just kidding.)
Video Movelist(credit for this video goes to Bloodburger):


Combos
9K, P, P, 236P+K xx K (restands), 66K, 4P+K xx 214K+G -- for high 70's to low 80's (rabbit360)

BNBs
(credit to Hatake Osawa)
1. Down + P+K+G --> P(creates a stun) --> (Tanhikyaku) --> P, P, P, B = 6 hit 76 Dmg
2. Down + P+K+G --> P(creates a stun) --> NJ+B (Tanhikyaku) --> P, P, (Koushi Kouzan) = 6 hit 82 Dmg


also check out post #21 below for Whatisalee's excellent transcription of a Eileen combo vid from VFDC!
tobal 2 best game ever
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Comments

  • KumaOsoKumaOso Trust Your Instincts Joined: Posts: 3,752
    This thread's name should be Come on Eileen.

    And I appreciate that you'll be putting up bnbs and all that good stuff.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    TTT2: Xiaoyu/Jaycee
    Virtua Fighter: Come On Eileen
    Avatar Art by Apofiss at DeviantArt.
  • d0c_zaiusd0c_zaius tobal 2 missionary Joined: Posts: 394
    actually that was my first choice for a title, but I thought the young kids wouldn't get the reference heh.
    tobal 2 best game ever
  • crimzonflamecrimzonflame Jabroni Joined: Posts: 340
    Need bnbs desperately. Appreciate the topic.
  • KumaOsoKumaOso Trust Your Instincts Joined: Posts: 3,752
    actually that was my first choice for a title, but I thought the young kids wouldn't get the reference heh.
    The young kids should learn their history.
    TTT2: Xiaoyu/Jaycee
    Virtua Fighter: Come On Eileen
    Avatar Art by Apofiss at DeviantArt.
  • debsdebs lowering property value Joined: Posts: 5,070
  • Hatake OsawaHatake Osawa Joined: Posts: 23
    Alright, Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm gonna be presenting you some BnB combos for Eileen that "does not" have any negative advantages, or openings during her combo strings. I'll keep updating this post with more combos for her that work in this version. Stay tuned!

    1. Down + P+K+G --> P(creates a stun) --> (Tanhikyaku) --> P, P, P, B = 6 hit 76 Dmg

    2. Down + P+K+G --> P(creates a stun) --> NJ+B (Tanhikyaku) --> P, P, (Koushi Kouzan) = 6 hit 82 Dmg

    3. Left, Right + P+G (Stun Grab), NJ+B (Tanhikyaku), P, P, Forward + P+K x 3 = 7 hit 93 Dmg
  • lycanscar950lycanscar950 Joined: Posts: 69
    Here are some of her other ones http://eileenmaster.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-20.html
  • debsdebs lowering property value Joined: Posts: 5,070
    where can we get a list of notation?
    i'm coming over from marvel and tekken...

    what does B mean and what does nj+b mean?

    also, something i've been wanting to do is to have a format like:

    video
    combo natation

    that way beginners, like me, can see the notation and also see what the combo is supposed to look like. it makes things way easier. this game is hard IMO and there's so much to learn just to hang with other ppl that don't know what they're doing, lol.
  • Hatake OsawaHatake Osawa Joined: Posts: 23
    I'll definitely try to get some videos up for you guys since my friend/roommate does have an HD Capture Device in the living room. So I'll probably hop on that in a little bit to show you exactly how to do the strings itself. Don't get me wrong, I'm like that as well to see how people execute a certain string and get an idea afterwards how to perform it.

    If you go through some basic training and command training, it's kinda confusing as first, but for example P= Punch G= Guard, K=Kick etc. I'm just use to putting B on there cause I'm on the 360 and it's better for me to do that. Plus NJ is for Neutral Jumping. Sp instead of jumping up, it would be like jumping the direction your opponent is and pressing the button as described at the same time to link it. My apologize for not letting you know that. So I'll go ahead and update that for you guys to make it clearer.
  • d0c_zaiusd0c_zaius tobal 2 missionary Joined: Posts: 394
    sorry everyone, hopefully later today I can have time to fill this with more info. Thanks Hatake Osawa!
    tobal 2 best game ever
  • Rabbit360Rabbit360 keyboard warrior Joined: Posts: 288
    I'm looking for some kind of primer... like Eileen's top 10 moves and a few go-to strings that are good for interrupt shenannigans and quick punishes.

    Also, combos that work on Taka would be cool, need to maximize damage against that guy.
  • KumaOsoKumaOso Trust Your Instincts Joined: Posts: 3,752
    Hatake, if you're doing videos, please use Come On Eileen and Dumpling Warrior Remix for your bgm.

    I'm definitely practicing these combos once I get home from work.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    TTT2: Xiaoyu/Jaycee
    Virtua Fighter: Come On Eileen
    Avatar Art by Apofiss at DeviantArt.
  • Rabbit360Rabbit360 keyboard warrior Joined: Posts: 288
    A good combo i got off VFDC was

    9K, P, P, 236P+K xx K (restands), 66K, 4P+K xx 214K+G -- for high 70's to low 80's. pretty sure these inputs are correct.
  • FuziunFuziun Fuzzy Onion Joined: Posts: 1,080
    This is my first VF game (I've played more matches in one night of this than the entire series in my lifetime) and I picked Eileen. She seems like a fun character, hopefully I can learn to make use of all her stuff. Some sort of primer would be good, I've been reading some threads over at VFDC but it's quite a bit to take in.
    www.twitch.tv/fuziun - Casual gaming
  • MizkreantMizkreant JLF Hater Joined: Posts: 202
    "Come on Eileen, I swear (what he means), at this moment, you mean everything..!" Sorry, couldn't resist.
    Joysticks tried: Sanwa JLF, Seimitsu LS-55, Seimitsu LS-58, Myoungshin Fanta (medium rubber grommet), Crown 309MJ
    Favorite so far: LS-55 with bat top and octo gate
  • DravidianDravidian He who is CAT Joined: Posts: 702
    I'm curious about something. I plan on getting the full bundle on psn before the sale is over but I just wanna know if one of Eileen's custom parts is a staff or golden circlet (ala monkey king). I doubt the cloud is in......but please tell me if it is lol.
    PSN:NeoDeoN; CapcomUnity:Steelballed Dravidian; Tales forum: Dravidian
    Fighting Games I'm playing: UMVC3, SCV, SFIIIOE, and Skullgirls
  • W3G_GlakeW3G_Glake Joined: Posts: 99
    Where is a good place to learn the notations? I've been heavily wanting to learn more about 3D Fighting Games and their bnbs but I just cannot understand the notations.

    Btw thanks for the thread! Been playing Eileen since Vanilla, and decided to stick with her in this version to learn her more deeply.
  • KumaOsoKumaOso Trust Your Instincts Joined: Posts: 3,752
    I'm having a hard time understanding some of these notations in here. I assume "c" is a cancel notation, but what's with things like D+ 46?
    TTT2: Xiaoyu/Jaycee
    Virtua Fighter: Come On Eileen
    Avatar Art by Apofiss at DeviantArt.
  • W3G_GlakeW3G_Glake Joined: Posts: 99
    Here is a list of all of the notations. There are quite a few but they are all pretty obvious and extremely easy to understand haha.

    http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/53361
  • WhatisaLeeWhatisaLee Joined: Posts: 18
    I found a video on VFDC in the Eileen boards, and I thought it'd be fun to transcribe it for you guys! While some of these combos are beginner friendly, some are a little more involved. I recommend trying these combos out on lightweights first (Eileen or El Blaze), and if you're having trouble, refer to my notes below or feel free to ask. I'll explain my notations and abbreviations first...

    Directional/Input Notations

    7 8 9 > ub u uf
    4 5 6 > b n f
    1 2 3 > db d df

    p punch
    k kick
    g guard

    System Notations
    + simultaneous input
    _ hold direction
    ~ cancel
    CH counterhit
    OM 'offensive move'
    WR while rising from jump
    WD while descending from jump
    b! small bound
    B! large bound
    BT from back-turned
    ST opponent side-turned
    w! low wall splat
    W! high wall splat

    //anything underlined is not part of the combo

    Eileen-Specific Abbreviations
    Zenk 236p+k
    Enk 214p+k
    Run 6p+k+g
    UpWari 8p+k+g
    DownWari 2p+k+g
    Goku 9p+k+g



    [#] dmg combo [notes]
    [1] 60 CH 3p~236kkk
    [2] 56 43p+k~236kkk
    [3] 36 DownWari~p~236kkk [staggers on high guard]
    [4] 41 WD~k, 6k
    [5] 41 UpWari~k, 6k
    [6] 51 CH 6p+kpp, 6k
    [7] 48 CH 3p~214k+g
    [8] 66 CH DownWari~ppp, 4p+k~214k+g [also works crouching opponents]
    [9] 69 CH 66p, 3p~236kkk
    [10] 60 46p, 6_p, 6p+kpp
    [11] 70 Zenk~p, 6_p, 43p+k (b!), 3p~214k+g
    [12] 57 66k, 6ppk
    [13] 63 9p, pp~214ppp
    [14] 72 9k+g, p3p~214ppp
    [15] 81 9k+g, pp~Zenk~k (B!), 66k (b!), 4p+k~214k+g
    [16] 54 ST CH 214ppp, 6ppk
    [17] 69 46k+g, 6p+kp~236kkk
    [18] 67 33p, 66k (b!), 4p+k~214k+g
    [19] 76 BT 8k, UpWari~ppp (b!), 3p~214k+g
    [20] 68 Run~k (w!), 66k (b!), 4p+k~214k+g
    [21] 66 9k+g (W!), 9k+g (w!), 66k, 4p+k~214k+g
    [22] 85 Goku~k (W!), 214pp~Zenk~k (B!), WR~k (w!), 66k (b!), 4p+k~214kkk
    [23] 57 CH 2_3p+k, 6ppk
    [24] 56 CH 2_3p+k~236kkk
    [25] 87 ST CH 3k, Zenk~k (B!), 66k(b!), 4p+k~214k+g


    Weight Classes
    Super Light Weight (SLW): Eileen = El Blaze
    Light Weight (LW): Aoi < Sarah = Shun = Pai = Lion = Vanessa
    Middle Weight (MW): Lau = Kage = Lei = Brad = Goh
    Heavy Middle Weight (HMW): Akira = Jacky = Jean
    Heavy Weight (HW): Wolf = Jeffry
    Super Heavy Weight: Taka

    Stances
    OS open stance
    CS closed stance

    CS is when you and your opponent have the same lead foot. OS is when your lead foot is your opponent's back foot.

    //Go into training mode, and enter the main menu. Under Positioning Settings, you'll find a toggle for open & closed stance.

    Notes:
    These combos work on everyone unless specified below. Taka is noted later.

    Combo 10, doesn't work on Vanesssa in CS.
    Combo 11, doesn't work on HMWs and HWs except Jean. To land 3p after b! input as 3_p instead.
    Combo 13, doesn't work on Jean and Jeffry in CS.
    Combo 14, delay the last P for LWs and Aoi.
    Combo 15, doesn't work on HWs and on Akira in CS.
    Combo 19, doesn't work on HWs. To land 3p after b! input as 3_p instead.
    Combo 20, 66k will miss sometimes. It helps to delay 66k.
    Combo 22, done slightly off axis to the wall. In CS, slightly walk towards the screen. In OS, slightly walk away from the screen. The trick is to keep 214p from hitting the wall. In the video, Eileen does a 6p+g~6 throw to BT pp(wall stagger)~Goku~k, etc.
    Combo 23, doesn't work in OS for MWs, HMWs, and HWs. It helps to input g after 2_3p+k to cancel the string and continue with 6ppk.
    Combo 24, doesn't work in CS and Wolf.

    // Sometimes 214k+g's second kick will miss on longer combos (depends on OS/CS).
    // I use 6_p instead of p to close distance.
    // I've noted CH in combos only where it's necessary. Combo 7 might be guaranteed after 6p+g~6. I have to check.

    Taka notes:
    Combo 7 will not knockdown. -7f disadvantage.
    Combos 9 & 17, the last k will whiff.
    Combos 10-15, 19, 22-24 don't work on Taka.


    Other combos I came up with while I transcribed this...
    [26] 9k+g, 6p+kp~Zenk~k (B!), 66k (b!), 4p+kk or 214pk
    [27] 33p (flop), OM to back, 6_p, 43p+k (b!), 4p+k~214k+g

    Hope this helps!

    EDIT: I added damage values, and I also tried to make the notation easier to read.
  • KabadaKabada Joined: Posts: 34
    My friends, I will try to learn combos the old way... trying to get those by myself, and sharing with fellow Eileen players who may find improvements =). I may post a lot of videos since I got a video capture card recently.
  • d0c_zaiusd0c_zaius tobal 2 missionary Joined: Posts: 394
    amazing, that's what I was going to do.

    thanks Whatisalee!
    tobal 2 best game ever
  • lycanscar950lycanscar950 Joined: Posts: 69
    So what are some of her useful pokes
  • Rabbit360Rabbit360 keyboard warrior Joined: Posts: 288
    So what are some of her useful pokes

    I am a beginner in the VF series, so I am only posting this to perhaps spark some discussion on the subject.
    Maybe an experienced Eileen player could help out.

    236p at range
    6P+K+G~K ( i don't know the disadvantage its probably horrible ) or ~P near wall for follow up 236KKK
    catch them in a PPP blockstring into 214P+K~P or 2P+K+G~P with 6PPK follow up on stagger. If you don't think they will bite you can 6P+K+G into whatever or stay there and 236P/66K/9P+K+G~K and so on.
    standing jab x N into 236P+K~P+G is fun
    4K+G~K if pressured, after you get a jab in, seems to crush lows
    9P also crushes lows but i don't have a lot of luck with this
    2K+G(?)~K this should be a half circular low into air kick if i have the input right.
    i use 9K a lot to start the combo i posted earlier. I usually set it up with 6P and look for a counter hit 2P and go for the 9K or throw.
    6P is strong for spacing and can follow up as 6PPK or 6PP2K (i think) or do one of her interrupts.
    3PP seems safe from my experience and can look sort of ambiguously like a low attack.
    46K+G(?) ( the one where she kicks them from behind her head ) seems to catch people when you're at advantage.
    back turned i usually go to 2KPP or P into throw seems to work
  • d0c_zaiusd0c_zaius tobal 2 missionary Joined: Posts: 394
    thanks rabbit! added Eileens video movelist to the OP.

    Added some more info, some combos and BNB to the op as well (giving credit where it is due of course).

    Would it be better to compile everything in the OP as people enter it? or just leave it spread out throughout the topic? I'm down for whatever.
    tobal 2 best game ever
  • FuziunFuziun Fuzzy Onion Joined: Posts: 1,080
    OP with spoiler tags labeled for content is handy. It beats having to search through the thread when it gets bigger.

    I'll try to start contributing when I learn wtf I'm doing in this game.
    www.twitch.tv/fuziun - Casual gaming
  • KumaOsoKumaOso Trust Your Instincts Joined: Posts: 3,752
    I'm starting to wonder if, outside of combos, I'm going to just monkey around with her and see what happens. I mean, hey, I have to learn this shit for myself as well.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    TTT2: Xiaoyu/Jaycee
    Virtua Fighter: Come On Eileen
    Avatar Art by Apofiss at DeviantArt.
  • FuziunFuziun Fuzzy Onion Joined: Posts: 1,080
    Are 6P and 236P as good as I think they are? I also like 1P.
    www.twitch.tv/fuziun - Casual gaming
  • narsnars Your local Gunta Hunta. Joined: Posts: 289
    Trying to read this is hurting my head. :(

    Damn numbers!!!!!

    Thank you for your post OP!

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
  • DroogyDroogy I Respect the Foot Dive Joined: Posts: 48
    Love this thread and love the BnB's from Hatake

    that said I'm having issues online with Eileen, I've been doing really good today gladly and I've been using Eileen mainly (a little Lion) but I'm starting to have issues because I don't know any good opening moves, unless i get lucky I'm always losing the first hit to someone, I can come back but I like to get long combos going and go for a Ring out on certain stages so that opening move is essential to my game plan on smaller stages

    so any thoughts on any good high priority moves to open with? or should I start just using evade like crazy to try to get in a side strike as fast as possible?
    XBLA:DescendantDroog
  • debsdebs lowering property value Joined: Posts: 5,070
    Combos
    9K, P, P, 236P+K xx K (restands), 66K, 4P+K xx 214K+G -- for high 70's to low 80's (rabbit360)


    i'm going to try to do all of the combos in this thread and make a vid of them so that ppl can see them being done.
  • Rabbit360Rabbit360 keyboard warrior Joined: Posts: 288
    Yeah I do that one all the time, lol.
    Video shows the dmg, it does [81].

    I like the #19 from the combo video too.
    [19] 76 BT 8k, UpWari~ppp (b!), 3p~214k+g
    I set it up with a standing K+G which puts me back turned (when there's a chance to do it), then immediately do 8K.
    I skip the 3p and just do 214k+g for [67] because i can't hit 3p~214K+G for some reason.
    You can also do 9P+K+G to get BT but you're wide open.

    If I hit with 214p+g~P I have been doing this one:
    <214P+G~P>, 43P+K,6P+KPP for [70]

    And a final random thing; after 2P+K+G~K hits you can combo 236P for [40].
    If you time a 66K right from the position this leaves you at, and they do either wakeup kick attack, you will cross over them and land behind them BT at a pretty neutral advantage. (only tested on blaze).
  • WhatisaLeeWhatisaLee Joined: Posts: 18
    Video shows the dmg, it does [81].

    I like the #19 from the combo video too.

    I set it up with a standing K+G which puts me back turned (when there's a chance to do it), then immediately do 8K.
    I skip the 3p and just do 214k+g for [67] because i can't hit 3p~214K+G for some reason.
    You can also do 9P+K+G to get BT but you're wide open.

    If you can't hit the 3p, try 4p+k~214k+g instead. After bounds I usually use 4p+kk or 214pk so I don't have to worry about missing 214k+g's 2nd kick.

    that said I'm having issues online with Eileen, I've been doing really good today gladly and I've been using Eileen mainly (a little Lion) but I'm starting to have issues because I don't know any good opening moves, unless i get lucky I'm always losing the first hit to someone, I can come back but I like to get long combos going and go for a Ring out on certain stages so that opening move is essential to my game plan on smaller stages

    so any thoughts on any good high priority moves to open with? or should I start just using evade like crazy to try to get in a side strike as fast as possible?

    It really depends. Guard or backdash if you're really not sure what to do. But take note of what your opponent does in the beginning of the match. If they backdash, 3k to fish for a stagger. If they guard, use your jab to pressure or dash up throw. If they evade, delay your opening attack so you hit them during their failed evade. If they like using jab, 46p to duck under it completely. Keep in mind too that Eileen has one of the the fastest jabs in the game.
  • DroogyDroogy I Respect the Foot Dive Joined: Posts: 48
    It really depends. Guard or backdash if you're really not sure what to do. But take note of what your opponent does in the beginning of the match. If they backdash, 3k to fish for a stagger. If they guard, use your jab to pressure or dash up throw. If they evade, delay your opening attack so you hit them during their failed evade. If they like using jab, 46p to duck under it completely. Keep in mind too that Eileen has one of the the fastest jabs in the game.

    thanks for the advice yea I started using f+p (still haven't learned VF notation) to get in because it starts a short string and I can follow up with it. though its still tough to get in with her for me but thanks again for the input :)


    EDIT: maybe this thread should integrate some of the recommended moves thats on VFDC threads on the first post?
    XBLA:DescendantDroog
  • debsdebs lowering property value Joined: Posts: 5,070
    Yeah I do that one all the time, lol.
    Video shows the dmg, it does [81].
    yeah, lol thats me in the vid.

    there's so much to take in when learning this game...it feels like being in calculus class for the first time. :/
  • wilkins36wilkins36 Joined: Posts: 13
    On this combo: 9K, P, P, 236P+K xx K (restands), 66K, 4P+K xx 214K+G

    If you change the last hit to 236K+G it goes for 83 damage. Not really a big deal but if you are hitting the whole thing you never know when that extra damage will help and it does not change the difficulty at all.
  • debsdebs lowering property value Joined: Posts: 5,070
    match vids of my beginner eileen:





    i don't know her pokes at all and i don't really know the game of vf...so...but yeah. lol. i'll take note of rabbit's post about her pokes and apply them in the future.

    things i dont understand:
    offensive move, defensive move, movement, how to block some ex moves (ex low you block high, iirc but what about the rest), etc.

    help! and thanks. its like being in a foreign land with a foreign language.
  • Rabbit360Rabbit360 keyboard warrior Joined: Posts: 288
    One thing I discovered is OM (tap up/down, P+K+G during the sidestep) is not used to evade.
    I was trying to use it at first and kept getting nailed by things.

    Use DM (tap up/down) to avoid linear attacks.
  • Rabbit360Rabbit360 keyboard warrior Joined: Posts: 288
    Tricky at VFDC posted some combos.
    I don't want to rip the post entirely, so it's here http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/327315/Re: Final Showdown Eileen Basi#Post327315

    I like this one which was mentioned, and I saw an eileen using yesterday:
    6P+G6, P+K,P+K, PK

    Why do I keep seeing 9K+G --- is it different than 9K?
    ex. from tricky's post "9K+G,PP,214PP236P+K,K,66K,_3P,214K+G. You can drop out the 214PP too."
    and combos 14,15,22 from the combo video notation in this thread.
  • WhatisaLeeWhatisaLee Joined: Posts: 18
    Tricky at VFDC posted some combos.
    I don't want to rip the post entirely, so it's here http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/327315/Re: Final Showdown Eileen Basi#Post327315

    I like this one which was mentioned, and I saw an eileen using yesterday:
    6P+G6, P+K,P+K, PK

    Why do I keep seeing 9K+G --- is it different than 9K?
    ex. from tricky's post "9K+G,PP,214PP236P+K,K,66K,_3P,214K+G. You can drop out the 214PP too."
    and combos 14,15,22 from the combo video notation in this thread.

    That's a really good question. Supposedly, 9k+g executes 1 frame faster than 9k. The reasoning is to allow the system some leniency when it's translating inputs. If you input 9k, the game will wait 1 frame to ensure that you want 9k instead of jumping k. If you press 9k+g, the game recognizes that you want 9k, and it will not wait another frame to register the attack. Since jumping has changed in VF5FS, I'm not sure if this is true now, but it's a habit borne from previous games. There was some discussion about this in this thread.

    So what effect does this have on gameplay? Very little. 9k (or 9k+g) is used in situations where you're going to buffer it anyway -- eg. [elbow (hit confirm, buffer 9k during hitstun) > 9k] or [block (confirm 9k punish, buffer 9k during blockstun) > 9k punish] -- and in these situations, the move will come out the very first frame your character is able to move again because the input delay is swallowed by either the hitstun or blockstun.

    When does it matter? It matters when you execute the move from neutral. But going absolutely raw with 9k isn't recommended anyway.

    To clarify, here's Libertine's explanation: "The concept is similar to the execution of Pai's uf.gifk.gifplus.gifg.gif vs. her uf.gifk.gif. The execution speeds for both are identical. For the latter though, the system is waiting for k.gif to be released to confirm that the player isn't attempting a jump (entered with uf.gif Hold k.gif). This will take at least one frame."
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