3rd Strike Frame Data

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  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Right again for Tyrant punish, seems to only happens with crouched Chun. I don't understand the "small enough" though. Why does this matter?

    I'm gonna make a zip file with some useful scripts, with some explanation on how to use them.
    I'll send you all this probably during newt week.
    Are you familiar with LUA and PHP?
  • DonkusDonkus Time Marches On Joined: Posts: 504 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Based on what I can tell, she is too small while crouched to get hit by this like everyone else. Urien tries to hit the opponent with the lariat part of the super for 8 frames. If this fails he swings his arm around for the stun hit. Chun Li's crouched box is so small that even while reeling from a hit he just can't quite strike her with the lariat so she gets hit when he swings forward.

    I just found out about LUA yesterday so I don't know anything about it. I found some info about it on a mame website.
    GOD BLESS THE RING
  • NoMoreFunlandNoMoreFunland Perfection equals obliteration! Joined: Posts: 1,229
    Excuse me for interrupting, but does Chun's sa1 have that hitbox glitch too? When the fireball is fully out at frame 62 it starts to flash off and on at alternating frames.
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    No, that alternating is the normal rythm and also occurs on whiff (where that glitch never happens).
  • FourEyesFourEyes ST Bipson <3 Tuesdays. Joined: Posts: 34
    I know there's data on jump startups for some chars, but is there data for the number of frames it takes to reach the apex of jumps (neutral and diagonal for both regular and super jump) for each character? Bonus points for giving data on Oro's double jump, i.e the number of frames from the start of the second jump (neutral and diagonal) to the apex of the second jump.
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    I know there's data on jump startups for some chars, but is there data for the number of frames it takes to reach the apex of jumps (neutral and diagonal for both regular and super jump) for each character? Bonus points for giving data on Oro's double jump, i.e the number of frames from the start of the second jump (neutral and diagonal) to the apex of the second jump.
    I'm going to guess...


    80 Ken
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  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    I know there's data on jump startups for some chars, but is there data for the number of frames it takes to reach the apex of jumps (neutral and diagonal for both regular and super jump) for each character? Bonus points for giving data on Oro's double jump, i.e the number of frames from the start of the second jump (neutral and diagonal) to the apex of the second jump.
    You can use the hitbox viewer with P1 data window (parameter pos_y) and count it.
    http://baston.esn3s.com/hitboxesDisplay_spritesheet.php?iChar=18&iMove=superjumpForward&sMoveType=superjumpForward
    (nothing about Oro double jump though)

    How are those data useful?
  • FourEyesFourEyes ST Bipson <3 Tuesdays. Joined: Posts: 34
    Probably not that useful, i was thinking it would help in knowing the earliest time you can buffer an air parry if you
    go airborne, especially for situations where people dash under you and attack if you jump towards them.
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    Jump forward is two frame, up same, back might be 4.

    Jump , parry at frame two for 5 frames of safety.

    jump back, parry at frame 4 for 5 frames of safety.

    Sounds right. I sure do it enough to know that this is how it goes/
    8tROOXi.png
  • NoMoreFunlandNoMoreFunland Perfection equals obliteration! Joined: Posts: 1,229
    frame whore scrub u @Dander
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    frame whore scrub u @Dander

    I don't use frame data, I just know it. It's like knowing the lyrics to every Linkin Park song I have ever heard but hating every word of them.
    8tROOXi.png
  • OMG its a duckOMG its a duck Bruh I'm in down bad bruh Joined: Posts: 1,920
    So Ryu's cl.MK cr.MP works on standing Makoto, even though ESN's site says cl.MK is only +4 on hit, and cr.MP has 5 start up frames. Are the numbers just wrong or is something funky going on?

    EDIT: Nvm, Makoto gets extra hit-stun, like how Q and Ryu get extra block-stun, doesn't she? If she does, is there a full list of them somewhere?

    Wait, now I can't hit cl.MK cr.MP on crouching Hugo or Q, even though I should be able to. Wat.
  • GelgGelg Aim for the Top! Joined: Posts: 33
    Makoto gets extra hit-stun, like how Q and Ryu get extra block-stun
    Whoa whoa, what? Are these important? I didn't know about this. Sounds useful.
  • OMG its a duckOMG its a duck Bruh I'm in down bad bruh Joined: Posts: 1,920
    Whoa whoa, what? Are these important? I didn't know about this. Sounds useful.
    As far as I know, Q gets 2 extra frames of block-stun while crouch blocking, and 1 extra frame while stand blocking. Ryu only gets 1 extra frame while crouch blocking. I think. And I'm not sure if Makoto gets extra hit-stun.
  • GelgGelg Aim for the Top! Joined: Posts: 33
    That explains why certain parries become red parries with Q... Cool! I was getting well spun out recently testing parry stuff and half of it suddenly didn't work when I tried it with Q.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,702
    well they also have different hurtboxes and push boxes.
    so something that may, at some point in a sequence be out of range for one character, may be in range for another.

    so parrying is never really 100% consistent even disregarding Q. oro only does like 7 parries for each part of chun's sa2? or something? i forget but it's different for him.
    Play more.
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    So Ryu's cl.MK cr.MP works on standing Makoto, even though ESN's site says cl.MK is only +4 on hit, and cr.MP has 5 start up frames. Are the numbers just wrong or is something funky going on?

    EDIT: Nvm, Makoto gets extra hit-stun, like how Q and Ryu get extra block-stun, doesn't she? If she does, is there a full list of them somewhere?

    Wait, now I can't hit cl.MK cr.MP on crouching Hugo or Q, even though I should be able to. Wat.
    Really weird and specific shit here. You're absolutely right about the extra block stun, Ryu cl.mk become +7 on hit instead of +4.
    But, seems it's unique to Ryu cl.mk, any other move i've tested still have the usual frame advantage. Same for other chars i've tested with, inluding Gouki cl.mk.
    And it's also specific to Ryu vs Makoto.
    Good find!
  • NickRocksNickRocks DeathPlay Joined: Posts: 22,731
    I heard Dander sees frame data like neo sees the matrix :o
    King of the Post-09ers
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  • JAK..JAK.. Joined: Posts: 544
    Really weird and specific shit here. You're absolutely right about the extra block stun, Ryu cl.mk become +7 on hit instead of +4.
    But, seems it's unique to Ryu cl.mk, any other move i've tested still have the usual frame advantage. Same for other chars i've tested with, inluding Gouki cl.mk.
    And it's also specific to Ryu vs Makoto.
    Good find!

    Did you happen to look into the other makoto specific combo's like Sean's strong-rh chain into sa3 or dud's mak only combo (I forget this one..)?
  • OMG its a duckOMG its a duck Bruh I'm in down bad bruh Joined: Posts: 1,920
    Really weird and specific shit here. You're absolutely right about the extra block stun, Ryu cl.mk become +7 on hit instead of +4.
    But, seems it's unique to Ryu cl.mk, any other move i've tested still have the usual frame advantage. Same for other chars i've tested with, inluding Gouki cl.mk.
    And it's also specific to Ryu vs Makoto.
    Good find!
    Thanks, but I didn't find it or anything, I just remembered it from some combo videos.

    Also, wow, cl.MK cr.MP wont even work on crouching Makoto, even though the frames say it should. Is she just out of range, or is more weird stuff going on?
    Did you happen to look into the other makoto specific combo's like Sean's strong-rh chain into sa3 or dud's mak only combo (I forget this one..)?

    I think it's st.RH cr.MP on standing Makoto, but according to the frames, it should just work on anyone, but I think Makoto is the only one with a fat enough hit-box. Never mind, works on Hugo, and probably others.
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Did you happen to look into the other makoto specific combo's like Sean's strong-rh chain into sa3 or dud's mak only combo (I forget this one..)?
    Never heard about these to be honest, but "mak only" looks like the one above.
    Will have a look tomorrow.
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    I heard Dander sees frame data like neo sees the matrix :eek:

    dander took the green pill

    and I use the term "pill" loosely :smokin:
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    I heard Dander sees frame data like neo sees the matrix :eek:

    HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhahahaha I spit out my orange
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  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,702
    another reason Ryu is a fucking champ.
    Play more.
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Did you happen to look into the other makoto specific combo's like Sean's strong-rh chain into sa3 or dud's mak only combo (I forget this one..)?
    You're right for Sean, his target combo mp x hk also becomes +3 instead of +0, making SA3 linkable.
  • SesshaZLSesshaZL 春麗 豪鬼 Joined: Posts: 1,028
    chun can reversal sa2 a blocked chun cr strong, which is -4.

    so wouldnt she be able to reversal a blocked ken low forward since it is also -4? I dont recall ever seeing a blocked ken low forward reversal'd before, of course Ive seen them being whiffed punished.

    also why does it seem that ken is at the advantage after a standing forward, when according to esn's site its - 6 on block.

    it works as a "parry trap" against the eternal button pressers, and Ive seen in vids that it works like a neutral situation sometimes, e.g. nuki ken v tokura set nuki would do dash up cr.lp,cr.lk,cr.lk, st.mk. and like three times he caught tokura with a low forward super after the st.mk...what the hell, if this move is -6 on block either people are lagging like hell on punishes or I'm reading the data wrong...
    50/50 post Hyoukusen mixup is dirty!!
    Way more dangerous than outsiders perspective, "low forward super, yawn, I play better games" - WTF-AKUMA-HAX
  • TheMeth90TheMeth90 Slowly learning Elena on 3S... Joined: Posts: 1,145
    I noticed something about Necro's normals, almost have very few active frames, some just one... i wonder if that contribute to his low priorities?
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,702
    it definitely does. however they cover very large areas usually. meaning it's very easy to catch someone during startup

    also i think the majority of his normals are pretty safe on block. especially when you add in any specific spacing.
    Play more.
  • TheMeth90TheMeth90 Slowly learning Elena on 3S... Joined: Posts: 1,145
    it definitely does. however they cover very large areas usually. meaning it's very easy to catch someone during startup

    also i think the majority of his normals are pretty safe on block. especially when you add in any specific spacing.
    Yes, especially his "back normals", he has a lot of frame traps and good confirms.
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Are the frames right on Chun's bHP?

    http://ensabahnur.free.fr/BastonNew/hitboxesDisplay.php?sMode=f&iChar=16&sMoveType=fd_normals&sAction=w&iMove=29

    I swear the hitbox is bigger than that.
    STOMP!
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    The hitbox on the site for bHP looks a lot lower than it is in the game. If you jump in on from about midscreen distance (I.E. not right next to her) and you hit any button like Alex's jHP and it should hit around her head or the tip of her shoulder, but her bHP will easily beat your jump in.
    STOMP!
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    You probably mistime your j.hp.
    I checked hitboxes, they are correct. Also tried Alex j.hp vs Chun b.hp, alex will win as long as he doesn't try to hit her too deep.
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    You probably mistime your j.hp.
    I checked hitboxes, they are correct. Also tried Alex j.hp vs Chun b.hp, alex will win as long as he doesn't try to hit her too deep.

    I think you're right, but the timing is a bitch.

    I sure wish there was some youtube video I could look at that explains that matchup...
    STOMP!
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,702
    anything jump in related is entirely timing + spacing based. you can't really say anything definitively.

    her back fierce stays out a long time and has a very horizontal area.
    go look at something like a hadouken and see how tiny the hitbox is horizontally. that's because characters have pretty huge hurtboxes. if it was as wide as the hadouken looks you would get hit by them constantly while jumping over them. it wouldn't feel or look correct.

    so when you look at a move like chuns back fierce, that horizontal space is enormous plus it just hangs out there and her hurtbox is relatively safe. so any pixel entering that box is going to mean a hit. means its very easy to catch virtually anything. in other words: chun is a whore.
    Play more.
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Okay, ESN question:

    Situation: Fighting a dude who's playing turtle and wants you to jump in so they can parry and do whatever.

    I'm using Alex (act surprised) and his jump in options in that situation are limited to: Saying fuck it and try to hit them with jHP anyway, jump in throw, or be super risky and empty jump Super/Stomp/Super Jump MP Flash Chop.

    So, it's an absolute fact in this situation if I jump in and hit any button they will parry it. But I jump in and do a very delayed LP/LK and combo into SA2. If they parry the LP/LK I'm going to assume they can't throw you, but can they confirm (for the sake of argument, Chun's Lowfoward into Super) and will it beat my super? I assume if they do raw super and it has fast startup (like Dud's SA3 or I think Necro's SA1) that should beat my super.
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  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,702
    im not esn but:
    i don't think jump jab/short can even combo into sa2.
    they could throw you the moment you land.

    they could parry and start super before you can even start super since you're still falling out of the air.

    i think if they parry you it resets tripguard so you could just land and block and you'd be fine.

    also why aren't his other normals options? jumping strong can be tricky if you whiff it over their head. sort of like doing remy jumping fierce, it recovers right before hitting them and then you throw them.

    other moves just mess with parry timing a lot. his jumping forward has huge range. roundhouse too.
    Play more.
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    im not esn but:
    i don't think jump jab/short can even combo into sa2.
    they could throw you the moment you land.

    Nope. I tested it with them standing and crouching. You can combo into jLP/LK into SA2 with Alex. The timing is tight -like 1 or 2 frames- but it can be done.
    STOMP!
  • yomipoweryomipower not a legendary game designer Joined: Posts: 1,167
    Just... don't jump? This seems to be one of the usual noob traps; If I jump and try to attack, he'll parry me, if I try to empy jump, he'll throw me immedietly upon landing. What you should do, if you absolutely insist on jumping, is to change the timing of your jump-ins, obviously enough. Try to first get a gauge on what particular moment does your jumpin get parried and then change the timing accordingly. Remember, they can't mash parry, they'll have to time it. Jumping light attacks are surprisingly effective doing this, if not usually, as they usually have an instant-ish startup and when done late give a little bit of frame-advantage on hit for you to do something upon landing. Another option is to empty jump and then immedietly upon landing do a move that can't be thrown, but it can be risky of course. Does SGGK work on landing? I guess you could try that too.
    Yomi, which is the Japanese word for the underworld. Also a brand of vitamins for children.
  • LouiscipherLouiscipher Joined: Posts: 8,177
    Jumping light attacks are surprisingly effective doing this, if not usually, as they usually have an instant-ish startup and when done late give a little bit of frame-advantage on hit for you to do something upon landing.


    ... Do you even read posts? Just curious.

    Obviously I'm using jLP/LK in this situation because of the fast startup. Of course you change your jump in timing but in this situation they're going to parry everything. Doesn't matter what your timing is.

    I'm trying to investigate how effective a delayed jLP/LK with Alex might be if you have Super loaded. I'm thinking; they parry it, you land Super on them. They block, you can jump again, try to throw, parry, UOH, whatever. I don't think they can AA you that late (not even Chun, correct me if I'm wrong) because of the startup of jLP/LK so worst case scenario is they AA early and you got popped up for a little bit of damage. I guess they could parry then block or jump out but who would do that after parrying a jump in?
    STOMP!
  • yomipoweryomipower not a legendary game designer Joined: Posts: 1,167
    I doubt you have any realistic time to hit confirm a jumping light attack into super, the hit stun on those is almost negligible.
    Yomi, which is the Japanese word for the underworld. Also a brand of vitamins for children.
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