3rd Strike Frame Data

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  • 1DarkChaos1DarkChaos Joined: Posts: 65
    wow awesome
    thanks!
  • MackinzieMackinzie Team Scrub Joined: Posts: 1,524
    anyone have information on the game speeds, of XBOX vs PS2 versions of 3s? and any information on how it is effected if xbox version is emulated on haxbox.
    Me to Amir - Mirror Mirror on the wall who the fuck is this infidall!
  • bubblanbubblan Joined: Posts: 253
    Is the dash speeds on karathrow correct? It seems a little weird that Hugo has a 8 frame dash.
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 783
    Does anybody have invincibility frame data for specials/supers? I'm betting its somewhere on the japanese wiki (http://home.att.ne.jp/star/GR/3rd/) but I figured I'd ask before trying to dissect it myself.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    The Japanese wiki shows the invulnerability in the "notes" for the moves that have them, so the frames aren't actually on the table, they're below the table.

    Google translator and Babelfish work well enough to get the idea of what they are saying in the notes (although it will be in horribly broken engrish).

    What character(s) did you want to know the data for?

    .. heh just realized this was hours ago so you probably have all the data you need by now, but if not then I wouldn't mind looking some stuff up and posting it.
    Let's play.
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 783
    Thanks dude. If its handy, I'd really like to know what the invincibility frames are for chun (SA2, EX SBK, ??) and ken's (SRK, EX SRK, SA3, ???) moves.

    I took a quick look at the wiki, and I'm guessing this string translates to invincibility: "????????." Based on that, there are, for example, 4 frames upper body invincibility for lp srk, 5 frames upper body invincibility for mp srk, and 7 frames invincibility for hp srk. I don't see an entry for SA3 though, even though I thought there were invincibility frames for that super.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    Thanks dude. If its handy, I'd really like to know what the invincibility frames are for chun (SA2, EX SBK, ??) and ken's (SRK, EX SRK, SA3, ???) moves.

    I took a quick look at the wiki, and I'm guessing this string translates to invincibility: "????????." Based on that, there are, for example, 4 frames upper body invincibility for lp srk, 5 frames upper body invincibility for mp srk, and 7 frames invincibility for hp srk. I don't see an entry for SA3 though, even though I thought there were invincibility frames for that super.

    "????????." = frame full invincible.
    "??????????" = frame upper body invincible
    "?????????????" = (but vulnerable to throws during invincibility)


    Chun EX SBK = 8F full inv
    Chun SA2 = Inv pre-flash and during flash. No inv post-flash (but upper-body inv to projectiles, it just doesn't list it)

    Her initial movement actually occurs during screen-freeze and she's of course inv during the screen-freeze. So you could say she's inv during her initial forward movement. But if you have a "meaty" attack sticking out at the time of the flash she will instantly be hit as soon as the screen unfreezes (even if it's a high-ish attack).

    Ken's DP is "special" in the sense that as a reversal they always animate for at least 1F even if a meaty is hitting them. So I guess you could say it always has at least first-frame inv. But..

    Ken LP SRK = 4F upper body inv
    Ken MP SRK = 5F upper body inv
    Ken HP SRK = 3F full inv then 4F upper body inv
    Ken EX SRK = 5F full inv
    Ken SA3 = Inv pre-flash. 3F inv post-flash

    Not sure why Ken's super inv isn't listed but I verified in an emulator that it's at least 3F post flash (might be 4F). Though it definitely starts hitting on the same frame the inv wares off.
    Let's play.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Is Chuns EX SBK invul from the first active frame to the 8th? That seems weird seeing as how you tend to beat it/trade with it..
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    Is Chuns EX SBK invul from the first active frame to the 8th? That seems weird seeing as how you tend to beat it/trade with it..

    I'm actually testing that now. I can't figure out what the properties are. It completely blows through an opponent Chun's back+fierce, HP, MP, and c.HK for the first 8 frames.

    But I was able to hit it with Ken's SA3 on the second frame of the SBK. So, I'm a little confused.

    Edit: Ok this is bizarre, it blew through Chun's HK L.Legs and MK/LK Legs, but not EX Legs.

    I'm confused.

    Edit2: Okay I give up, I can't figure out where or when the hittable box is or is not or why some moves with extremely similar hitboxes can hit it but others can't.
    Let's play.
  • LEVALEVA I want your lamer soul Joined: Posts: 251
    iirc Ken SA3 has lower body invincibility for 3/4 frames and quite often u can see a meaty uoh stuff shyppu in videos. Shyppu will lose to a well timed throw.
    Dud SA3 has upper body invincibility and is projectile break on the first hit, sometimes u see a low attack beat it.
    Alex SA2 has full body inv for some frames.

    So if memory serves:
    corkscrew> shyppu
    Alex SA2> corkscrew and shyppu
    Try to clash those supers with regular and EX shoryukens or with an EX SBK and see what happens. Supers should always win

    I didn't know EX SBK was 8 frame full inv, that's a lot of inv for that bitch. Should test which part of her body is invincible, i.e. can u hit her with a crossup [ken jmk]?

    EX Legs are a good meaty attack with some invincibility frames at the beginning and also a particular property: even if u start to parry them u need an invincbile srk/super to go through otherwise u get hit, more or less the same scenario as parrying chun SA2

    Question: what is the real property of normal moves during genei-jin?
    Let's say yun activate and go for clk, ken pull out a shyppu. Why the trade considering ken has lower body inv during shyppu?
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    iirc Ken SA3 has lower body invincibility for 3/4 frames and quite often u can see a meaty uoh stuff shyppu in videos.
    That's definitely the case of the UOH going high enough to avoid the first hit of shippu. I just tested it several times in an emulator. If the UOH was performed too late and they are low enough to be hit by the first kick then the UOH will lose even if it's still active, likewise if it's too early. But if it's timed just right they are above the hitbox for the first kick. I also tested with other attacks that hit Ken right in the chest/face like Chun MP and HK and b+HP and they all lose to shippu even if the attack box is currently active after screenflash.

    I don't think Shippu is low-body-inv, I think it's fully inv on the first 3-4 frames.
    Try to clash those supers with regular and EX shoryukens or with an EX SBK and see what happens. Supers should always win

    I didn't know EX SBK was 8 frame full inv, that's a lot of inv for that bitch. Should test which part of her body is invincible, i.e. can u hit her with a crossup [ken jmk]?
    That's what I can't figure out. Ken j.MK and HK and basically everything I throw at it whiffs the first 8 frames. It's like it's literally invulnerable for the first 8 frames if I chuck a normal move at it.

    BUT for some reason Shippu and EX Legs can hit the EX SBK on the second active frame, as if it's vulnerable to EX moves or supers.

    That doesn't make any sense, but that's what my test results are showing so far.

    Keep in mind though stuff like Ken HK can still "beat" EX SBK, it's just invulnerable on the first 8 frames, but after that the HK can still hit it out of the air before the SBK hitbox starts.
    Let's play.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Kens cross-up j.mk will beat Chuns EX SBK, that much I know.
    I know Dudley will often trade with it if he does his sweep, and cr.lks can beat it clean iirc. I think it's a matter of a weird hitbox rather then 8f full invul.
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    Kens cross-up j.mk will beat Chuns EX SBK, that much I know.
    I know Dudley will often trade with it if he does his sweep, and cr.lks can beat it clean iirc. I think it's a matter of a weird hitbox rather then 8f full invul.

    The startup is 12F. So if it's only invulnerable for 8F then anything that is hitting it after the 8th frame is going to beat it since it's vulnerable before the attack begins.

    Like I said, it's not about beating it. Lots of things will beat it because the attack doesn't start until after the inv ends.

    The weird thing is that it is actually invulnerable for 8 frames to normal moves. I checked in an emulator and it will blow through normal moves and normal specials. But for some reason EX Legs and Ken SA3 will hit it during frame 2 when it's supposed to be invulnerable. So I don't know why it would be invulnerable to most normals during startup but not invulnerable to EX Legs or Shippu during startup.

    If it's just about beating it then damn near anything will beat it as long as it hits during frames 9-11 or trades on frame 12.

    If it was just a hitbox thing then at least one normal move that Chun or Ken would hit it during the first 8 frames and no normal moves they have does, they can only hit it after the 8th frame with normal moves,
    Let's play.
  • Mr. WarzardMr. Warzard CvS2 Commissioner Gordon Joined: Posts: 783
    Thanks for all the info. I've got two more follow-up questions:

    -Could you please post the invincibility frames on EX legs, if there are any?

    -If you haven't already, maybe you could see how EX SBK does against a projectile? That might be the best way to make sure that it isn't a weird hitbox thing.
    Holding a shovel over SF4's grave.
    CVS2: The Nine Ball of Fighting Games
    Apoc was right: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/556915/#Comment_556915
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    Thanks for all the info. I've got two more follow-up questions:

    -Could you please post the invincibility frames on EX legs, if there are any?

    -If you haven't already, maybe you could see how EX SBK does against a projectile? That might be the best way to make sure that it isn't a weird hitbox thing.

    - It doesn't have first frame inv, it gets hit by meaties. And the wiki doesn't mention any inv. So I think there is none.

    - Yeah I tried with Chun's kikkoken and it still went through on the first 8 frames (but was hit on the 9th frame by the kikkoken).

    I'm actually about to go try and make a slow-motion video of this, because I honestly didn't know things like "invulnerable to attacks below a certain strength" existed in 3S.
    Let's play.
  • Xenozip.Xenozip. what a nincowpoop Joined: Posts: 3,942
    Alright here's the video

    Sorry I disabled comments on purpose, leave the discussion for SRK.
    Let's play.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thanks alot, Xenozip! :-) It's appreciated!
  • darkhiryuudarkhiryuu Hello Hella Joined: Posts: 202
    For anyone who cares, the previous frame data site at http://sf33rd.web.fc2.com is no longer valid. The new address for that site is http://gr.qee.jp/3rd/index.html. Enjoy:lovin:
  • stratos_999stratos_999 Joined: Posts: 25
    I ask if there are other sites than game resturant. I tried to translate it with google, but of course it is not understandable. Please help :)

    Thanks

    Edit: I think this shoul'd be fine,

    http://ensabahnur.free.fr/Baston/

    Please comment, and tell if you spot inaccuracies.
  • MackinzieMackinzie Team Scrub Joined: Posts: 1,524
    if makoto's jab is plus 2 how could she combo it into stand short? that has 4 frames of start up :/
    Me to Amir - Mirror Mirror on the wall who the fuck is this infidall!
  • ZenFireZenFire Makoto: 3S only Joined: Posts: 956
    It's a target combo/chain with specific timing (not mashable).
    Forever mediocre
  • MackinzieMackinzie Team Scrub Joined: Posts: 1,524
    so her stand jab is chainable into itself then too?

    >.>

    even though it's listed not chainable into self.
    Me to Amir - Mirror Mirror on the wall who the fuck is this infidall!
  • ZenFireZenFire Makoto: 3S only Joined: Posts: 956
    Now you've made me doubt myself. Could always just record it and verify for yourself.
    Forever mediocre
  • MackinzieMackinzie Team Scrub Joined: Posts: 1,524
    well i know jab combo's into itself for a fact. as ino did jab jab short hayate sa1 to snag a win in SBO in i believe 2008 might have been 09 over someone... :/ and according to the data nearly all characters have a down throw, as well as twelve can airdash with down, lol there is alot of stuff incorrect or goofed, that i'm noticing does anyone know who created this website?
    Me to Amir - Mirror Mirror on the wall who the fuck is this infidall!
  • ZenFireZenFire Makoto: 3S only Joined: Posts: 956
    Yea, I know it works. I've done it myself as well.

    Try this archive of Game Restaurant:
    link

    It also says makoto's neutral s.LP is +2.

    However, it doesn't mention the LP>LK as a target combo either.
    Forever mediocre
  • MackinzieMackinzie Team Scrub Joined: Posts: 1,524
    i guess we can just call it a magic combo :p
    Me to Amir - Mirror Mirror on the wall who the fuck is this infidall!
  • Someguy92Someguy92 Joined: Posts: 677
    1)Whats the fps of this game in 3s? How many frames run in a second
    2)2 frame startup means it hits on the 2nd or 3rd frame? So a move with +3 advantage would at least need a move thats 2 or 3 frames on startup
    Check out Toonami on adultswim 12 pm est on Saturday. Seriously. Do it
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    1)Whats the fps of this game in 3s? How many frames run in a second
    2)2 frame startup means it hits on the 2nd or 3rd frame? So a move with +3 advantage would at least need a move thats 2 or 3 frames on startup

    - 60 fps, I believe.

    - Two-frame startup = it hits on the second frame.

    - A move with +3 advantage needs a move that has at most a two frame startup.

    Example: Dudley's f.HK gives a +2 advantage when hitting a crouching opponent. Rocket Upper and Corkscrew Blow both have a one frame startup so they're able to hit. Rolling Thunder has a two-frame startup so it won't be able to connect.

    Also, Dudley's f.HK can be punished when blocked by a move that has a one-frame startup. Ryu can reversal Shin Shoryuken(one frame) against a blocked f.HK from Dudley.
  • EdYMEdYM Joined: Posts: 13
    Wait, are you sure about that. I'm no expert but I see this site when I wana check 3s frame data: Street Fighter III Third Strike

    For akuma, it says cl.MK is +4 on hit and SA1 is 4 frame start up. I definitely know you can link SA1 from cl.MK on standing opponents.
    Just wana make sure cos I don't want to be reading frame data wrong for the rest of my times.

    thx in advance.
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    Wait, are you sure about that. I'm no expert but I see this site when I wana check 3s frame data: Street Fighter III Third Strike

    For akuma, it says cl.MK is +4 on hit and SA1 is 4 frame start up. I definitely know you can link SA1 from cl.MK on standing opponents.
    Just wana make sure cos I don't want to be reading frame data wrong for the rest of my times.

    thx in advance.

    cl.MK->SA1 works on every crouching character(+6 advantage on crouching opponents), but standing is actually character specific. There are some characters that recover somewhat slower than others, like Makoto(regular MGB->SA2 link works on her). I'm not sure which characters exactly, sorry to say.

    Same goes for Ryu's cl.MK->SA1.
  • EdYMEdYM Joined: Posts: 13
    ah thx. don't wana be reading frame data wrong for every other game I ever play. I'll keep the cl.MK->SA1 being char specific in mind but I only verse like shotos anyway.
  • GaspGasp | | | | | Joined: Posts: 4,611
    actually cl.mk is super cancellable so cl.mk->sa1 works on everyone :)

    you can link it on crouchers but...why the fuc........ :(
    Lunchtime Shopper
  • ZenFireZenFire Makoto: 3S only Joined: Posts: 956
    - Two-frame startup = it hits on the second frame.
    There's two notations. Some notations include the first active frame in the startup number, some don't. Like SRK Wiki explains for SF4 frame data:

    The 1 frame discrepancy you see between Startup+Active+Recovery and Total is because when it says a move has 4 frames startup, it really has 3 frames startup and hits on frame 4.

    cl.MK->SA1 works on every crouching character(+6 advantage on crouching opponents), but standing is actually character specific. There are some characters that recover somewhat slower than others, like Makoto(regular MGB->SA2 link works on her). I'm not sure which characters exactly, sorry to say.

    Same goes for Ryu's cl.MK->SA1.
    I think it's more of a hitbox issue rather than differing recovery speeds. The latter would be very strange and my gut says it's unlikely.
    Forever mediocre
  • LEVALEVA I want your lamer soul Joined: Posts: 251
    For Gouki: Close MK to sa1 works on every characters, it's a 1 frame link on standing opponent, larger window on crouching. Piano tap makes it very easy.
    For Ryu: Close MK to sa1 only works on crouching [maybe even on standing makoto etc? have to check this]. SGGK comes in hand for this purpose [at close range: low parry - throw+MK option select, confirm crouching position to SA1. Watchout for standing jabs cuz they can be parryed both low and high]

    The difference between those two projectiles is very simple; gouki sa1 has a bigger/larger/taller hitbox than Ryu's. Shinkuu hadoken cannot close the gap in time after a connected close MK while gouki sa1 can due to his larger body.
  • EdYMEdYM Joined: Posts: 13
    blah that's so misleading. Is most frame data written with start-up including the 1st active frame?
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    I think it's more of a hitbox issue rather than differing recovery speeds. The latter would be very strange and my gut says it's unlikely.

    You're most likely right regarding the hitbox issue, but I've seen more unlikely links be used against Makoto, like Sean's MP->HK target chain to SA3(standing, btw). That one was strange to me, considering the chain should have -2 advantage. Maybe it's just her?

    But anyway, thanks for clearing that up. Sorry, I don't talk too much about frame data and you can see why. haha
  • Mr. DemonMr. Demon Joined: Posts: 189
    cl.MK->SA1 works on every crouching character(+6 advantage on crouching opponents), but standing is actually character specific. There are some characters that recover somewhat slower than others, like Makoto(regular MGB->SA2 link works on her). I'm not sure which characters exactly, sorry to say.

    Same goes for Ryu's cl.MK->SA1.

    characters can't recover faster from a hit that would be cheating:nono:
    but they have differences in recovery time after being knocked down
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  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    characters can't recover faster from a hit that would be cheating:nono:
    but they have differences in recovery time after being knocked down

    Nono, I know that they can't recover faster. I'm just wondering if some characters recover from a hit slower than others. Makoto is the only one that sticks out in my mind right now.
  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    i remember yohei/blue or some other guy telling me in japan that makoto wakes up from the ground weird. i forgot exactly what it was though. anyone know anything about this?
    かかってきな。
  • R_T_S_DR_T_S_D Wait... This isn't NeoGAF? Joined: Posts: 686
    I believe I read somewhere that Messatsu go Hadou was actually a 2 frame startup but that the size of the fireballs hitbox changed and grew bigger on the 3rd and 4th frame (IB4 that's what she said) which is why it combos with close forward kick. If only we could get the frame by frame hitboxes. Can someone dig them up from the GGPO rom file? (im aware of my ignorance and that something like that may be insanely hard to do so sorry in advance)
    3S: Characters
    USF4: Seth
    SF5: Karin
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