3rd Strike Frame Data

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  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Berserk won't disappoint you, for sure!
    Hokuto No Ken, although i love it, is not on the same level. It just blow my mind when i was a kid :d
    Though, the first film/oav is a must see!
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Beta version of new frames data site, with hitboxes: http://ensabahnur.free.fr/BastonNew/

    I only tested it with current version of Chrome, Firefox.
    I know it doesn't work on IE6 but seems to work quite well on IE7 (probably IE8?) though i don't care of IE and won't make any bug fixing for it.

    So far, i only filled Gouki's frames data/hitboxes, have to collect for other chars.
    Only Gouki, but already had some surprises, like air SA3 startup being 1 but actually hitting behind him.

    Button below top title allows to display either old karathrow data or (by default) data i get from emulator.

    On the frames data page, a small legend (click on it) explains some points.
    The hitboxes display page allows you to display passive/active/vulnerability (supplementary passive hitboxes during moves) hitboxes, basic data and full data for each frame and for each char and objects (fireballs, etc)...
    Those basic/full data are variables directly read in FBA-RR memory during the emulation, such as life, stun, bar, status, charge, etc...
    Colored squares allows to toggle display of each hitbox type and data.
    P2 is kind of useless right now as all moves done are only whiffing, but the script can also display full combos so it may be useful later.
    Be aware that the page uses a lot of CPU process. Manually going frame by frame should always work, but the player may frameskip if your computer is a bit old and/or the fps parameter is too high.

    If you see any bug or don't understand something or have any remark/suggestion, please ask!
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    This is amazing.
    You did not go back in time, this is how the forums look.
    "You are all just as bad as the people you hate. You're only interested in characters based on tears." - Since1717
    NO STREAM = DEAD GAME
    PSN: X_the_Genius | GGPO: Mr X | Skype: MisterEcks
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,709
    holy shit

    you're insane man. you're just insane!

    this is sick! should be on front page of srk or you should make a new thread here so people know.
    Play more.
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
  • mpikkonmpikkon "S" class tier (OP) Joined: Posts: 355
    ESN, very nice work!
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,239
    ESN, can I persuade you to do Dudley next with jedi mind tricks?
    You did not go back in time, this is how the forums look.
    "You are all just as bad as the people you hate. You're only interested in characters based on tears." - Since1717
    NO STREAM = DEAD GAME
    PSN: X_the_Genius | GGPO: Mr X | Skype: MisterEcks
  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I saw Ken's are UP. Damn some hitboxes oh his are retardedly good (not that we didn't know, but still they are sick
    gooby plz
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Mr.X >> I'm currently doing all the extract again (q/gouki/ken) as Dammit recently found addresses of other hitboxes (throw/throwable/pushbox).
    So Dud will be next after i finished with those three again.
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    ESN:

    Do you have a source for the frames of throw invincibility on wakeup? I believe it but when I posted something about it in a recent article someone challenged it and I'd like to be able to cite it in the article.
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Probably the game mechanism thread though i can't find it on the first page right now, i remember Jinrai speaking about this.
    I also read it on Billy Kane's blog.
    And now i think about it, part of the famous MOV tricks are based on those inv. frames, which is a very reliable source IMO!

    edit: it was in page 2 actually, not a really precise value though...
    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-system-mechanics-thread.15113/page-2#post-1032944
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    I checked, it's 5 frames of throw invulnerability on wakeup.
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    This is what i call some good hitboxes! (yes, red = being hit)
    http://ensabahnur.free.fr/BastonNew/hitboxesDisplay.php?sMode=f&iChar=0&sMoveType=fd_supers&sAction=w&iMove=34

    I finished Dudley hitboxes but didn't update frames data yet.
  • GaspGasp | | | | | Joined: Posts: 4,611
    ESN: would you mind debunking/looking into this post about makoto's weird wake up properties?
    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/3rd-strike-frame-data.1617/page-5#post-170831

    http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=v42o7b&s=7
    Lunchtime Shopper
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,709
    ESN: would you mind debunking/looking into this post about makoto's weird wake up properties?
    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/3rd-strike-frame-data.1617/page-5#post-170831

    http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=v42o7b&s=7

    the fact that you doubt firechocobo harms me mentally.
    YOU MEAN MAN
    Play more.
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    ESN: would you mind debunking/looking into this post about makoto's weird wake up properties?
    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/3rd-strike-frame-data.1617/page-5#post-170831

    http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=v42o7b&s=7
    Seems Makoto has the same kind of full invulnerabilty she also has after karakusa if she stay neutral. (2 frames here, 25 (!) after karakusa)

    Mak does nothing, hitboxes appear after Dud's meaty MP.
    Mak jumps as soon as she can, making hitboxes appear normally and Dud's meaty MP hits.
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Site updated: http://ensabahnur.free.fr/BastonNew/ (Clear your cache or use ctrl F5 if things seem messed up)

    Most important change is the 'Cancel' properties of all moves, and possibility to display hitboxes for hit/block/cr.hit (but without images). This may sound useless but i think it's interesting to see the cancel properties for each state.
    There are some type of 'Cancel' i haven't clearly identified (noted brown and violet, with '??' inside), i just know they seem related to Target combos (cf. Ibuki/Dudley normals) and/or special cancel to special (Gouki Hyakki Shuu and Yang Tourou Zan). If anyone has a precise idea of what they're about, please share!

    If something is/feels wrong in data (or if any bug of course), tell me and i will check it and correct it if needed.
  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Site updated: http://ensabahnur.free.fr/BastonNew/ (Clear your cache or use ctrl F5 if things seem messed up)

    Most important change is the 'Cancel' properties of all moves, and possibility to display hitboxes for hit/block/cr.hit (but without images). This may sound useless but i think it's interesting to see the cancel properties for each state.
    There are some type of 'Cancel' i haven't clearly identified (noted brown and violet, with '??' inside), i just know they seem related to Target combos (cf. Ibuki/Dudley normals) and/or special cancel to special (Gouki Hyakki Shuu and Yang Tourou Zan). If anyone has a precise idea of what they're about, please share!

    If something is/feels wrong in data (or if any bug of course), tell me and i will check it and correct it if needed.


    awesome work man!
    I was looking forward to see Shin Gouki data too but you deleted him lol
    gooby plz
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Thx!
    Yeah, i deleted SG for now though i'll add him later for fun. I got a lot of fba crashes while collecting data, got bored and gave up on him for some time.
    Same for Gill actually, but as he's more, well, legit, i persisted a little more.
  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Thx!
    Yeah, i deleted SG for now though i'll add him later for fun. I got a lot of fba crashes while collecting data, got bored and gave up on him for some time.
    Same for Gill actually, but as he's more, well, legit, i persisted a little more.

    Speaking about Gill, his hitboxes are great but less broken than I thought they would be lol
    3f cr.MK is retarded though lol
    gooby plz
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Yeah, i'm surpised by this too.
    His HK is stupid too!
  • mwelshmwelsh Drill Sergeant Joined: Posts: 183
    ESN, thanks for all your hard work. Seeing all the cancel properties is great!

    The purple cancels are definitely target combos, only allowing you to cancel into specific moves. The brown cancels are weird. There is never a brown cancel without a purple cancel. The only moves with brown cancel properties are Akuma demon flip, Yang slashes, Elena spin scythe and Ibuki far HP. Some theories:

    - Purple cancels are only on hit/block, brown cancels are on whiff. (Does this include demon flip? And then why is Makoto's st. LK xx st. MK not a brown cancel?)
    - Brown cancels are for special move > special move cancels. (Demon flip throw could fall under here, but then why is Ibuki far HP x HP a brown cancel?)

    Some more weird and interesting things:
    Shoto LP/LKs are purple cancels, meaning stuff like cr.LP, st.LP and cr. LK, cr. LP, cr. LK are actually "target combos" as opposed to general chain/self cancels.
    Why does Ryu far MK have purple cancel frames? Does this mean you can cancel it slightly early into some other normal?
    Why does Dudley's backswing blow have purple cancel frames?
    Why does Ibuki's DP have SJC frames?
    In general, it's interesting to see a lot of moves are chain cancellable -- you can do combos like Ibuki cr. LK, LP, MP, f+LK.
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Thx, interesting and pretty much my current conclusions.
    I can give a few more thoughts.

    I don't think whiff/hit/blk states imply anything special, as you can see on the hit state hitboxes.

    Purple = 'cancellable to another normal/special', but a given one (maybe more), not like if it was 'Normal cancellable' (brighter green one) where you can cancel to whatever normal you want.
    Typically target combos, but also things not supposed to be target combos like Mak f.HP cancellable to HP, or more surprising, Ken's MK last frames which is cancellable (strictly only) by HK. Same for Ryu far MK, but it is also cancellable by itself).

    Ibuki far fierce still remains a total mystery about the brown cancel meaning as the purple cancel should already give it what it needs to cancel to HP. (it's the only follow-up possible, right?)
    Same for purple cancel of Dudley SSB as nothing but SA can be done after it.

    Ibuki's DP superjump possibility is funny: it doesn't work of course but it cause she's already off the ground when it becomes available. If i force her to stricly stay at Y=0, she is indeed able to superjump out of it.
    Weed is probably involved for the design choice of this one, or maybe it originally comes in some way from 2nd Impact.
  • SesshaZLSesshaZL 春麗 豪鬼 Joined: Posts: 1,028
    Is Chun airborne during her forward dash? or is that makoto...or am I thinking of something totally different?
    50/50 post Hyoukusen mixup is dirty!!
    Way more dangerous than outsiders perspective, "low forward super, yawn, I play better games" - WTF-AKUMA-HAX
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,709
    Some of the head scratching stuff could simply be leftovers from development couldn't they?
    Play more.
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    party over heeeeeeeeeeeerreeeeee
    8tROOXi.png
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Is Chun airborne during her forward dash? or is that makoto...or am I thinking of something totally different?
    Depends your definition of airborne.
    If you mean she's not at y=0 (don't know how to say it differently), then yes, but she's still throwable.
    But, with my definition of 'airborne' which is 'not throwable anymore except with air throw', then she's not.
    Actually, from all chars dashes, Ibuki's dash backward is the only case where airborne state exists.
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    Some of the head scratching stuff could simply be leftovers from development couldn't they?
    Yeah, probably, i was kidding.
    Though, this may explain Sean actually ^^
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
    Depends your definition of airborne.
    If you mean she's not at y=0 (don't know how to say it differently), then yes, but she's still throwable.
    But, with my definition of 'airborne' which is 'not throwable anymore except with air throw', then she's not.
    Actually, from all chars dashes, Ibuki's dash backward is the only case where airborne state exists.

    Really? I thought Twelve and Hugo's backdashes left them airborne too.
  • akuaku スピリチュアルやからね! Joined: Posts: 3,865
  • SesshaZLSesshaZL 春麗 豪鬼 Joined: Posts: 1,028
    so even tho she is still throwable, is that why like in chun mirrors you can dash through each other?
    50/50 post Hyoukusen mixup is dirty!!
    Way more dangerous than outsiders perspective, "low forward super, yawn, I play better games" - WTF-AKUMA-HAX
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    I am pretty sure Alex is airborned during his dash...maybe that was backdash. Also cool stuff with the normal cancels, Imma see how they play out this wednesday.
    8tROOXi.png
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,709
    whatever dude i dashed through yun far fierce today with remy. everything is maghical.
    Play more.
  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    ESN: not sure if you were aware but your website has a lot of normals/specials/supers 1 frame faster or slower start up than game restaurant. not everything but so far ive noticed a lot.

    edit: just checked the old version of your site. looks accurate so far. not sure if you knew though. sorry im getting pretty confused as to which version and which website is more accurate. should i just assume that game restaurant is correct and i should use that as the primary resource for frame data?
    かかってきな。
  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    I checked, it's 5 frames of throw invulnerability on wakeup.

    MOV has told me before its 6 frames. wikiwiki.jp and other player blogs also has it as 6 frames. this makes more sense since wake up normals that are quicker than 6 frames will beat the opponents throw on wake up (ie: kens cr mp 5 frames works, kens cr mk 6 frames does not work)

    Edit: I'll have to check various websites again but it might also be 6 frames after blockstun as well. Hope my previous post didn't come across wrong. really respect you for your effort. Sorry theshend, but I'd buy ESN a beer before you haha.
    かかってきな。
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    MOV has told me before its 6 frames. wikiwiki.jp and other player blogs also has it as 6 frames. this makes more sense since wake up normals that are quicker than 6 frames will beat the opponents throw on wake up (ie: kens cr mp 5 frames works, kens cr mk 6 frames does not work)

    Edit: I'll have to check various websites again but it might also be 6 frames after blockstun as well. Hope my previous post didn't come across wrong. really respect you for your effort. Sorry theshend, but I'd buy ESN a beer before you haha.
    Yeah, don't remember how i checked this time but i failed lol
    Also, i just remembered about this, a few weeks ago, where we talked about this: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-system-mechanics-thread.15113/page-10#post-7171541
  • ESNESN 最初はぐう... Joined: Posts: 1,347
    ESN: not sure if you were aware but your website has a lot of normals/specials/supers 1 frame faster or slower start up than game restaurant. not everything but so far ive noticed a lot.

    edit: just checked the old version of your site. looks accurate so far. not sure if you knew though. sorry im getting pretty confused as to which version and which website is more accurate. should i just assume that game restaurant is correct and i should use that as the primary resource for frame data?
    Any example so i can check?
    I can't pretend everything is accurate, but as data come from emul hex code, without any "human process" part for 99%, it should be ok for the most part.
    Maybe those diff are due to a different definition of startup, ala SF4?

    Edit1:
    For example, Q SA1 startup is the number of frames after superfreeze and before any red hitboxes: http://ensabahnur.free.fr/BastonNew/hitboxesDisplay.php?sMode=f&iChar=18&sMoveType=fd_supers&sAction=w&iMove=46
    So, 5 frames, where GR says it's 6.
    Funny thing: they give 6/10/10/10/13, the 6 uses the SF4 notation, next three 10 use not, and then the 13 is 1 frame off (or 2 depending of the notation)
    I find 5/10/10/10/11.
    Though, using google translate for most of the stuff, i may miss important definition throughout the site.

    Edit2: after comparing Ken's SA, it's pretty obvious this is a definition difference. Phew!
  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    Off the top of my head from what I remember, you have Dudley's jump lk,mk,rh a frame slower than game restraunt, and then have his dartshot the same # of frames so it's not consistent on the new version of your site.
    かかってきな。
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    we need some diaperbomb in here
    8tROOXi.png
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