UMVC3 Patch/Balance Discussion *NO PATCH...but word is out of possible ALL CAPCOM VS game coming*

DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep EnergyJoined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
Alright so we know there's a lot of rumor going around about possible balance changes for the game.

We also know that there's a small, minute, insignificant chance that Capcom might change things revolving the basic mechanics like toning down or removing XF, changing the button set up, how the hit boxes work, how teleport cross ups work etc. BTW that's your cue to stop dreaming and start playing Skullgirls or MVC2. Wishing MVC3 was more like your favorite game is too much 2010 SFIV BS that just derails the tier thread way too much.




We know shit might be going down so I made this thread so it can be discussed specifically here. The tier thread is to discuss stuff that is currently coded in the game and generally the potential for how the characters and players will unlock the game in the future through said code. It's not to discuss core gameplay changes that have 0.1 percent chance of ever happening. Although it's not as bad...I would like to keep balance discussion to a minimum in the tier thread also unless it becomes official.




NOW GOGOGOGOGO.


EDIT: What I feel will most likely happen. Will be interesting to see how much of what I estimate is correct if this so happens.
Spoiler:
Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
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Comments

  • VorkosiganVorkosigan AWOOOGA Joined: Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭✭
    I can definitely see Spencer's unscaled upgrapple being changed to normal in any possible patch

    If the complaining keeps up about Morrigan then no-meter Astral Vision will happen too
    A few years ago (my mother) asked if I beat Justin Wong at Evo. The shame I felt in saying no made me seriously consider suicide right there on the spot. - Viscant
  • ironboy89ironboy89 Beep Boop Beep Joined: Posts: 4,659 ✭✭✭
    People need to seriously keep in that mind that Capcom historically do not know what they are doing.

    SFIV did not signficantly change from Vanilla, Super, AE, AE2012. If you hate SFIV, no patch will change how you don't like it.
  • FlyingVeFlyingVe Best Poster of All Time Joined: Posts: 12,983 ✭✭✭✭✭
    True, Capcom is very, very committed to their original designs, they rarely make changes beyond frame data tweaks.

    The only announcement that would convince me otherwise is if the tell us ArkSys will be doing the rebalance.
    UMvC3: Viper/Dante/Strider, Jill/Dante/Wesker, Nova/Spencer/Sentinel
    Killer Instinct: Thunder, Spinal, Jago
    SF4: Hugo, Abel, Oni, Yang
    SF3:Yang
  • The DukeThe Duke Joined: Posts: 14,295 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fix the stupid untechable throw shit pls thx

    You're talking about the Marlin Pie guard break style stuff?
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • The DukeThe Duke Joined: Posts: 14,295 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What ever the bug is where the game treats you like you're on the ground while you're airborne and you can't tech.
  • KefKef Joined: Posts: 3,112
    I only want a few changes:
    [General]
    - Lower damage of XF even more. Decrease lenght of Lv.2 XF and Lv.3 XF.
    - Make TACs more reactable, maybe a little less than grabs within combos in BlazBlue (pretty easy to react to).
    - Remove the ability to call assits during knockdown roll.

    [Zero]
    - Remove Lightning Loop (the more important nerf IMHO).
    - Remove Buster Cancelling (or at least, do not allow for Setsuizan xx Buter OTGs).
    or
    - Make all versions of Raikouzen slower in startup (significantly).

    [Iron-Man]
    + Make cr.:m: push the opponent closer to you, both on hit and on block.
    + Make air-dash like Vanilla MVC3.
    + More hitstun on the last hit of Proton Cannon (more personal than anything).
    + Unibeam do more chip damage.

    [She-Hulk]
    + Give her the vanilla slide.
    + Allow cr.:l: to be chainable.
    + Lightpost move being able to destroy projectiles (not sure if it already does).

    [Strider, Akuma, Rocket Raccoon]
    + Bring Strider, Akuma, and RR to 800k health.

    I don't think Zero is above the whole top tier, but I just like having to work for my damage (like resets).
    Persona 4:[/B][/I][/U] Main: Akihiko
    If you wanna play some MVC2/Persona/BBCP: PSN: I-Kef-I and KefPringlez

    "Don't be nice, it's Marvel son, the origin of hatred. The game ain't about being nice. If you want to be nice play Tea Party Adventures. They go that shit on DS I heard." - Romneto

    - Credit for image on avatar to Cindysuke on devianArt. http://cindysuke.deviantart.com/
  • FuLLBLeeDFuLLBLeeD fartboner Joined: Posts: 2,129
    Iron Man needs a better fucking ground dash.

    Its so infuriating to me that half the characters problems could be solved if he didn't have such a shitty wave dash. It has to be an oversight.

    [Iron Man]
    BETTER GROUND DASH
    More hitsun on ground and air smart bombs
    Faster startup on all versions of Unibeam and Repulsar Blast
    More untechable time after Repulsar Spread
    Better recovery/more damage on proton cannon
    Bigger hitbox on c.M, s.H and j.M
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,004 ✭✭✭
    Buff Zero and Viper again.
    "You are all just as bad as the people you hate. You're only interested in characters based on tears." - Since1717
    NO STREAM = DEAD GAME
    PSN: X_the_Genius | GGPO: Mr X | Skype: MisterEcks
  • GobyGoby ~ Eduardo Joined: Posts: 40
    Give wolverine back his invincible berserker slash.
  • FlyingVeFlyingVe Best Poster of All Time Joined: Posts: 12,983 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Buff Viper. She still sucks because no one plays her.

    Also, nerf Wesker because everyone uses him.
    UMvC3: Viper/Dante/Strider, Jill/Dante/Wesker, Nova/Spencer/Sentinel
    Killer Instinct: Thunder, Spinal, Jago
    SF4: Hugo, Abel, Oni, Yang
    SF3:Yang
  • 23mikey23mikey Joined: Posts: 449
    You're talking about the Marlin Pie guard break style stuff?

    Damn everything must've been created by Marlinpie according to SRK logic... Like sentinel players haven't been doing that shit since forever :S

    -Nerf Xfactor again, seems like the only reasonable thing that Capcom would be willing to do
    PSN: Clint_Beastwoood
    UMVC3: Dorm/Doom/Ammy
    Zero/Dante/Strider
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Damn everything must've been created by Marlinpie according to SRK logic... Like sentinel players haven't been doing that shit since forever :S

    -Nerf Xfactor again, seems like the only reasonable thing that Capcom would be willing to do

    Now it's the Sentinel player #342342 guard break. Marlin Pie is just the first person to make it really relevant with a point character instead of an anchor with sub par abilities on his own that won't have an assist to back it up any way.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,005 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bleh

    Non character specific changes that would be nice:
    • no XFC
    • no TAC's
    • different button scheme (no need to negative edge assist calls please)
    • 2 button throws or make them more than 1 frame to mitigate retarded OS's
    • Lose red life when DHC'ing to a character like MvC2
    • Completely remove ability to buffer inputs during super freeze.
    • give all install supers more startup and recovery
    • remove ability to call assists while rolling or tech flipping
    • combos starting with :l: prorate damage at least by 25%
    • change cross counter to alpha counter motion so it doesn't overlap with reversal snap back attempts
    • hard tags no longer overheads
    • completely overhaul scaling system to at least minimum 20% damage for everyone while decreasing base damage on most normals (character specific considerations of course). This will add extra incentive to do longer combos and make basic abcxxsuper combos do far less damage.
    • reduce meter gain some more
    • Make mashed supers difficult(read impossible) to get full hits. Make them do significantly less damage than in vanilla if not fully mashed. Fully mashed = Vanilla damage.
    • Get rid of/slow down canned unreactable auto-crossup moves or somehow reduce the payoff/make them cost meter (teleports + assist and berserker slash are stupid moves, don't pretend otherwise)
    • Put a bit of thought into who gets a full combo after a throw. Shit is completely arbitrary now.
    • Vastly reduce range on airthrows and increase height restrictions.
    • Overhaul lots of hitboxes, no more turning around 4 times during ground string, no more hitting characters in the air with your ass. Less disjointed hitboxes (even swords should be able to trade).
    • Start of round should not let you move. Some characters have way too much of an advantage at the start while others just plain suck.
    • Push back should be way further after teching throws to avoid the stupidity of "who can mash :f:+:h: the fastest." Maybe give the person who initiated the throw slight frame advantage.
    • Revert assists to ignore HSD like in Vanilla.
    • Make it so assists take less damage, but are vulnerable much longer after they attack.
    • Assists don't attack if point character is hit while they are called (like MvC2).
    • Make double tap dashes tighter so :dp::f: doesn't make you dash if you do it too fast.
    I can think of more, but they probably wouldn't be very popular, lol. (i.e. get rid of sweep into launcher please, shit is stupid and makes spacing chains a non-issue)
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • FuLLBLeeDFuLLBLeeD fartboner Joined: Posts: 2,129
    Ghost Rider:
    -Chip Damage Whip Normals

    Shuma Gorath:
    -Throw invincibility on Mystic Smash

    Phoenix Wright:
    -Level 3 should be an instant kill
  • BonuspokusBonuspokus My head's on fire Joined: Posts: 315
    Nerf the shit out of Doom's missiles, they should disappear if Doom gets hit. That assist is ridiculous and he already has 2 strong assists.
    Give She-hulk her old slide and nerf Nova's slide (he has too many tools already)
    Fix Helm Breaker's hit box, the coat shouldn't hit and I'm also starting to consider that his version of Ouroboros should be nerfed so that they don't cut through everything (or make it cost at least 2 levels to activate).
    Nova shouldn't be able to force additional ground bounces.
    Give Arthur a ground dash.
    Improve Chun Li's damage
    Improve Storm's damage.
    Give Sentinel more health OR make his flight mode as fast as his MvC2 version.
    Give Nemesis more health and add super armor to more moves and improve his damage from DHCs.
    Rocket Raccoon, Firebrand, Amaterasu, Akuma, Strider and X-23 need to have more life.
    Give Super Skrull the ability to choose the angle of his dash like Amaterasu (Box dashing would make many things easier)
    Thor's Mighty Thunder should push the enemy away if he blocks (just like Magneto's shockwave)
    Give Iron Fist a real launcher and you're good to go.
    Fix Tron, I don't know how, just do it.
    Give Dr. Strange an air dash and improve his normals.
    Fix Iron Man's ground dash so that he can properly wave dash and give him his old air dash back.
    Storm's H normals feel awkward, make it so that they come out faster.
    Morrigan shouldn't be able to get meter when Astral Vision is active.
    Trish needs faster start up on Round Trip and Low Voltage should come out faster. (Even tho SRK overrates her, she isn't THAT good)
    Fix Spencer's damage scaling.

    Phoenix
    (I tried the health changes in H&H using the Luke Cage cards)
    (making Phoenix more viable as a point character but at the same time making Dark Phoenix less extreme)
    IF X-FACTOR STAYS IN THE GAME
    -Give Phoenix 600k-700k HP and make it so that the cost for Dark Phoenix is 5 lvls AND X-factor, if DP activates, X-factor disappears
    IF X-FACTOR GETS REMOVED FROM THE GAME
    -Give Phoenix 700k HP and let Dark Phoenix activate with the 5 levels, so that you have to tag her out or use her healing Hyper to keep DP alive.

    Hsien KO (tried some of this changes in H&H)
    Make Senbu Pu cancellable.
    Henkyo Ki should come out faster, have more hitstun and OTG properties.
    The bombs should hit.
    Anki-Hou should allow Hsien Ko to throw at least 3 items in a row with multiple button presses (kinda like Tron shooting servbots)
    Her ground and air dashes should be faster and also travel a longer distance.
    Give her the ability to perform a second jump.
    Improve her overall damage or change the way that hit stun scaling works with her so that she can perform longer combos with her multiple hitting abilities.
    Her swords hyper should come out faster and make more damage.
    Crouching H should be a fast, long reaching slide just like She-hulk's old slide.

    Shuma Gorath (tried these changes in H&H)
    Give shuma gorath the ability to cancel his air normals with a dash (believe me it makes a HUGE difference and makes the character a lot more viable AND FUN)
    Make Mystic stare easier to connect, change its hitstun or something.
    I don't know if this would be broken but it would be cool to give him some sort of super armor when he uses mystic smash.


    If I come up with anything else, I will add it.
  • Mr TwisterMr Twister You hate to see this kind of thing happen Joined: Posts: 1,085
    Here's my list of suggestions:

    Buffs:
    -Make Iron Fist's :s: hit opponents in a knockdown state, or at least give him an alternate command launcher like Doctor Doom's f.:h: Hard Kick. Make his cr.:l: hit low. Give him a double jump.
    -Make Phoenix Wright's cr.:h: hit Low in Turnabout Mode, make Bad Evidence never appear until after 3 pieces of Good Evidence have been obtained, so the player can choose between going straight to Turnabout Mode or trying to get their preferred pieces of Evidence. Generally put the less useful ones first. Make Cell Phone or Document come up later, for example.
    -Fix everything about Hsien-Ko and Iron Man's dashes.
    -Give Iron Man his Knee Drop in the air, make it cause a Ground Bounce.
    -Give Arthur an actual dash.
    -Make She-Hulk's Clothesline cause a Hard Knockdown against airborne opponents like it did in Vanilla, make cr.:l: Rapid Fire again, increase cr.:h: slide distance to what it was in Vanilla. Do something to make Lights Out! useful outside of being flashy, maybe force a wall bounce, for example. Also, two-way airdash. If Chun-Li can have one, so can She-Hulk.
    -Hyper Armor and invincible start-up on Nemesis T-Type's Biohazard Rush, invincible start-up on Fatal Mutation.
    -Rimoukon lasts longer. More buffs for Hsien-Ko would be needed, but I wouldn't even know where to start. I've already mentioned the dashing problem, but damn.
    -Make Doctor Strange and Tron's :s: at less of a frame disadvantage, -21 and -20 are ludicrous.

    Nerfs:
    -Make Zero's minimum damage scaling much lower.
    -Make Vergil less stupid, just change him in general to make him good, but not as dumb as he currently is.
    -Reduce, but do not remove, meter gain from Astral Vision, maybe cut it in half while the clone is active.
    -Reduce untechable time from Doctor Doom's j.:s: and Nova's air throw.
    -Increase the start-up of Electromagnetic Disruptor.
    -Make Wesker, Doctor Doom, and Storm's :s: more unsafe on block.

    General Changes:
    -Reduce time that X-Factor is active for all three levels, and make minimum damage scaling even lower. Smaller damage and speed boost.
    -More time to react to a TAC. Make the character light up before hitting, not after. This allows the player to see which way they need to counter, and give more of a chance to break out of the combo. It's still better than what happened when you countered TACs in the earliest beta builds of Vanilla.

    That's all I can think of for now, if I think of anything else I'll edit the message.
    GT: Ezio Frauditore
    Tron/Frank West/Super-Skrull
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Typical stuff in here although when it comes to Iron Man...

    What is this about fixing the dash SPECIFICALLY so that he has a better wave dash? Learn to plink dash like Wolverine. A majority of the cast can both wave and plink dash any way. Iron Man is just another character like Doom or Morrigan where you just don't wave dash to power their ground movement. Figure that shit out.

    The only thing you guys really want is faster action start up off the dash so you can apply his footsies a bit faster during the actual dash.


    It's cool that you guys want shit changed...but at least make sure you're describing stuff that doesn't just force you to step up your execution slightly to improve.





    My bets are hidden missiles doesn't get changed at all but Morrigan gets changed up instead.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • J.DJ.D Fortune favors the prepared... Joined: Posts: 4,347 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dear Capcom
    Make sure that there are at least 4 or 5 characters who are better than all the others so I can continue to be a tier whore.

    Sincerely
    - A Tier Whore
    Twitter: @SRKJD
    UMVC3: Spencer/Dante/Magneto
    XBL: TRUJD3S
  • FuLLBLeeDFuLLBLeeD fartboner Joined: Posts: 2,129
    Typical stuff in here although when it comes to Iron Man...

    What is this about fixing the dash SPECIFICALLY so that he has a better wave dash? Learn to plink dash like Wolverine. A majority of the cast can both wave and plink dash any way. Iron Man is just another character like Doom or Morrigan where you just don't wave dash to power their ground movement. Figure that shit out.

    The only thing you guys really want is faster action start up off the dash so you can apply his footsies a bit faster during the actual dash.


    It's cool that you guys want shit changed...but at least make sure you're describing stuff that doesn't just force you to step up your execution slightly to improve.





    My bets are hidden missiles doesn't get changed at all but Morrigan gets changed up instead.

    Specifically, I want to be able to follow up forward throws and Repulsar spread midscreen. His normal dash/plink dash isn't good enough for either of those things.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Specifically, I want to be able to follow up forward throws and Repulsar spread midscreen. His normal dash/plink dash isn't good enough for either of those things.

    The forward throw thing is a bit of an issue, but at least from what I remember Duck Strong saying you can convert into full combos off repulsor blast already.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • FlyingVeFlyingVe Best Poster of All Time Joined: Posts: 12,983 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What is this about fixing the dash SPECIFICALLY so that he has a better wave dash? Learn to plink dash like Wolverine. A majority of the cast can both wave and plink dash any way. Iron Man is just another character like Doom or Morrigan where you just don't wave dash to power their ground movement. Figure that shit out.
    .
    Apparently you play a version of Iron Man without 11 frames of startup on his dash.

    Fuck, in this game, whole teams can die in less than 11 frames.
    UMvC3: Viper/Dante/Strider, Jill/Dante/Wesker, Nova/Spencer/Sentinel
    Killer Instinct: Thunder, Spinal, Jago
    SF4: Hugo, Abel, Oni, Yang
    SF3:Yang
  • FuLLBLeeDFuLLBLeeD fartboner Joined: Posts: 2,129
    The forward throw thing is a bit of an issue, but at least from what I remember Duck Strong saying you can convert into full combos off repulsor blast already.

    If there is a way to do it I'd love to know, as far as I know you are forced to use 3 bars to combo off spread. You can link normals after it but its very inconsistent.

    I know how to plink dash but Iron Man's dash is still not that great, if you could cancel it on like frame 5 instead of 11 for example it would be a lot better.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Apparently you play a version of Iron Man without 11 frames of startup on his dash.

    Fuck, in this game, whole teams can die in less than 11 frames.

    Well considering Morrigan and Doom have similar ground dash problems that you must take to the air to account for...there really isn't much of a difference with the Iron guy other than his hit conversions being harder to set up.

    The dash really isn't that much of a problem since it is better than both of their ground dashes any way. The bigger issue is that other characters who have worse ground dashes like Morrigan and Doom have superior air to ground conversion and space control. Iron Man can hit areas of the screen that Doom can't on his own, but Doom can convert off the situations he can much more easily than Iron Man.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • FuLLBLeeDFuLLBLeeD fartboner Joined: Posts: 2,129
    Iron Man's bad dash keeps him from utilizing his tools, which are his strong normals and Repulsar Blast xx Spread. That isn't an issue for Morrigan or Doom.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If there is a way to do it I'd love to know, as far as I know you are forced to use 3 bars to combo off spread. You can link normals after it but its very inconsistent.

    I know how to plink dash but Iron Man's dash is still not that great, if you could cancel it on like frame 5 instead of 11 for example it would be a lot better.

    You can already combo off of repulsor blast. Repulsor spread just helps to keep repulsor blast safer if it is blocked or whiffed. Ideally you'll want an assist covering to make it harder to hit Iron Man during.

    Iron Man's bad dash keeps him from utilizing his tools, which are his strong normals and Repulsar Blast xx Spread. That isn't an issue for Morrigan or Doom.

    The correct assists can help mitigate such issue like I said earlier. If he had a faster air dash and better back hit boxes for his aerial normals it wouldn't be as much an issue. That's really all they really need to improve with him other than making some of his conversions easier if they feel that's absolutely necessary. If he had the durp air game like Morrigan and Doom no one would care about his ground dash.

    Doom and Morrigan are never on the ground long enough for their shitty dashes to be much of a factor.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • MomochuuMomochuu Little ♥ Monster Joined: Posts: 14,366 ✭✭✭
    The only things I would like in this game:

    Slightly alter the damage scaling on Dante's specials to where the last sequences of his combos don't do like 2K per attack. Don't make his damage scaling stupid like Vanilla but at least make the man not have to burn super to take off the last 3K health he's been doing Beehives to get rid of for the last 15 seconds.
    Give Dante back his old st.L.
    Decrease the frames on Dante's cr.L by 2 frames. I think that a move that doesn't even hit (read: completely whiffs) on certain characters in the game deserves to be a little faster.
    Give Sentinel 1.1M health, no other changes.
    Give She-Hulk her chainable cr.L back, keep slide distance the same as it is in Ultimate (still a good move), take away the wall bounce on Clothesline.
    Get rid of assists causing HSD.
    Take away the ability to call assists during wakeup roll (this should have been removed back in Vanilla and it doesn't even seem like they realized how much of a problem it is).
    Remove Lightning Loop by making the startup on Raikousen much longer.
    Make Vergil's cr.H a normal hit instead of a soft knockdown, make Vergil's st.L a little bit slower, reduce the speed on his cr.L slightly.

    that's all I can think of for now.
    Dante Combo Thread | Youtube Channel | Dante Tech Thread | @HelloKarinachuu
    UMvC3: Morrigan (α)/Dante (α)/ Doctor Doom (β)| Persona 4 Arena: Mitsuru/Shadow Labrys
    XBL Gamertag: Hello Momomo
  • OsbjornOsbjorn Please accept this gift from my people Joined: Posts: 411
    I was hoping they would leave the game alone.
    But still I do want to see more she hulks, modoks, iron men, and hsien ko players out there.
    I also think capcom should let morridoom cook for a bit before they hand out any nerfs.
    Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3: Viper/dante/strider viper/frank west/dante magneto/frank west dante
    Sfxt: Paul, Law, Bob, Guy, Heihachi, Ken
    Skullgirls: parasoul
  • FuLLBLeeDFuLLBLeeD fartboner Joined: Posts: 2,129
    You can already combo off of repulsor blast. Repulsor spread just helps to keep repulsor blast safer if it is blocked or whiffed. Ideally you'll want an assist covering to make it harder to hit Iron Man during.

    Comboing off Repulsar Blast (raw Blast no spread) is really hard without just doing spread into Iron Avenger. I'm telling ya man, spending 3 bars is really your only option with any sort of consistency to combo off it, unless you are close to the corner, in which case you can do dash L Smart Bombs, c.M combo afterwards. It would just be nice to do that midscreen since Repulsar Blast is easily his best move, and comboing off spread midscreen is impossible with his bad ground dash.

    Many characters in this game get combos off their best special moves rather easily, Iron Man doesn't have the mobility to do that.

    But I will say I think his air mobility is fine and actually suits his playstyle in this game. Its just his ground dash that needs tweaking. Its completely counter-intuitive to his toolset.
  • Nitro NoodlezNitro Noodlez ヽ(*゚д゚)ノ Joined: Posts: 5,878
    Give Morrigan Soul Eraser and Give Iron Man back his Knee Drop and his dash speed. That is all.
  • Nos99Nos99 Science Scrub Joined: Posts: 4,322 ✭✭✭
    Bleh
    • 2 button throws or make them more than 1 frame to mitigate retarded OS's
    • Lose red life when DHC'ing to a character like MvC2
    • Completely remove ability to buffer inputs during super freeze.
    • give all install supers more startup and recovery
    • remove ability to call assists while rolling or tech flipping
    • combos starting with :l: prorate damage at least by 25%
    • change cross counter to alpha counter motion so it doesn't overlap with reversal snap back attempts
    • hard tags no longer overheads
    • completely overhaul scaling system to at least minimum 20% damage for everyone while decreasing base damage on most normals (character specific considerations of course). This will add extra incentive to do longer combos and make basic abcxxsuper combos do far less damage.
    • reduce meter gain some more
    • Make mashed supers difficult(read impossible) to get full hits. Make them do significantly less damage than in vanilla if not fully mashed. Fully mashed = Vanilla damage.
    • Get rid of/slow down canned unreactable auto-crossup moves or somehow reduce the payoff/make them cost meter (teleports + assist and berserker slash are stupid moves, don't pretend otherwise)
    • Put a bit of thought into who gets a full combo after a throw. Shit is completely arbitrary now.
    • Vastly reduce range on airthrows and increase height restrictions.
    • Overhaul lots of hitboxes, no more turning around 4 times during ground string, no more hitting characters in the air with your ass. Less disjointed hitboxes (even swords should be able to trade).
    • Push back should be way further after teching throws to avoid the stupidity of "who can mash :f:+:h: the fastest." Maybe give the person who initiated the throw slight frame advantage.
    • Revert assists to ignore HSD like in Vanilla.
    • Make it so assists take less damage, but are vulnerable much longer after they attack.
    • Assists don't attack if point character is hit while they are called (like MvC2).
    • Make double tap dashes tighter so :dp::f: doesn't make you dash if you do it too fast.
    I can think of more, but they probably wouldn't be very popular, lol. (i.e. get rid of sweep into launcher please, shit is stupid and makes spacing chains a non-issue)


    These are all great ideas and remove a lot of the stupid derp in the game.
  • J.DJ.D Fortune favors the prepared... Joined: Posts: 4,347 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh and another thing.
    I would buy a whole new retail copy if we can get 0 input delay online mode.
    Fuck variable input delay seriously.
    You can still enjoy the game, but you have to deal with a lot of stuff that has no competitive value.
    Twitter: @SRKJD
    UMVC3: Spencer/Dante/Magneto
    XBL: TRUJD3S
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Comboing off Repulsar Blast (raw Blast no spread) is really hard without just doing spread into Iron Avenger. I'm telling ya man, spending 3 bars is really your only option with any sort of consistency to combo off it, unless you are close to the corner, in which case you can do dash L Smart Bombs, c.M combo afterwards. It would just be nice to do that midscreen since Repulsar Blast is easily his best move, and comboing off spread midscreen is impossible with his bad ground dash.

    Many characters in this game get combos off their best special moves rather easily, Iron Man doesn't have the mobility to do that.

    But I will say I think his air mobility is fine and actually suits his playstyle in this game. Its just his ground dash that needs tweaking. Its completely counter-intuitive to his toolset.

    Nah his air mobility really hurts him when he's in a spot outside of the first spot as it makes it overly easy to welcome mix him up as he's coming in. It's the single thing that makes him the hardest to play in any spot but the first spot.

    The single biggest problem I ran into with Iron Man is the lack of speed in his air dash and lack of hit boxes that extend well behind him making it near impossible to escape welcome mix ups. Putting Iron Man in a welcome mix up is as easy as dashing behind him as he's falling in. If they dash behind you, you're fucked.

    His ground dash could use a tweak but like Morrigan or Doom, it's more about just improving the durp of his conversions from the air (just make them flat out easier) and people would be fine.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • AzureJerichoAzureJericho To go even further beyond! Joined: Posts: 1,684
    Buff the everloving shit out of Hsien-Ko plz:

    - Make pendulums cancellable with S up to 3 times in the air
    - cr.H and Anki Hou H items OTG capable
    - Increased foward momentum and speed on her airdash and ground dash "hop-a-port"
    - Gong Assist is H version, starts up in front of point character

    Derp mode buffs

    - L command grab has M startup and range, M command grab has H range, H command grab changed to an anti-air command grab

    - Bomb tosses assigned to a command normal, Anki Hou items follow the Vampire Savior patterns to determine stun items before tosses.

    - Tenraiha's iron press making contact with the ground causes stagewide hard knockdown to a standing opponent or assist. No damage unless iron balls/press land on you however.

    Take health, take active time of Rikumon mode away, I don't care, but someone with such a unique fighting style and mobility options should not exist in this game in such a neutered manner.
    UMvC3 Main: "Spy May Stride" - Viper (Burning Kick)/Dante (Jam Session)/Strider (Vajra) || Skullgirls: Squiggly/Ms. Fortune/Valentine
    XBL: AzureJericho || YouTube Page
  • Mr. BubbleMr. Bubble Joined: Posts: 3
    If there is the off-chance that there would actually be a balance patch, the only changes I would find reasonable at this point in the game's life are adjustments for characters introduced in Ultimate. All the vanilla characters had the benefit of at least one cycle of balance changes (for better or for worse) though, I think a general consensus regarding the Vanilla -> Ultimate transition was that it at least made a wider selection of characters in the roster more viable in high-level play. Poor Hsien-Ko though. :(

    Aside from all that and addressing the strength of Hidden Missiles assist, any possible changes to the rest of the cast should be done carefully, selectively, and possibly minimally. I believe the game still has room to evolve and any other drastic changes in the same vein as the MvC3 -> UMvC3 transition wouldn't be reasonable right now.

    Just my two cents as an internet nobody...
  • YadiYadi 0'12er Joined: Posts: 255
    i think crapcom should leave morridoom alone, combofiend beat them with fucking she hulk! :pray:
    umvc3 teams: Nova,Spencer,Hawkeye , spencer,sentinel,akuma, Hawkeye,Sentinal,Akuma

    Mvc2: jill,Sentinal,captain commando
  • KeranataKeranata Joined: Posts: 653
    Balance Wishlist

    -Nerf

    Don't change anything about Zero except reducing his minimum damage scaling so it's more in line with characters like him as opposed to Hulk, removing buster cancelling is dumb because it makes him way less fun.

    Nerf Vergil in some way to tone down his incredible derp, teleport has more recovery, H and S frames or hitboxes, damage, helmbreaker now minus due to less blockstun and uncancellable to things that aren't super. There's a bunch of different ways you could do it just don't overdo it

    Nerf Phoenix / Dark Phoenix again because, fuck it. Why should the character who forces you to change your entire gameplan not be somewhat low tier

    Remove Firebrand's unblockable or make it charge longer so he can't do it after a snapback, or change the arc somehow so it doesn't hit at incoming character height

    Nerf Wesker JS startup and hitbox, give him added recovery time on teleports

    Nerf Hidden Missiles startup as an assist and shrink the hitbox from the silo behind doom

    Remove F+H being cancelled into teleport, nerf JH hitbox for Dormammu

    Nerf Sent drones somehow, increase Sentinel health to 1.15 or 1.2 million give him 5 to 15% faster flight speed

    Nerf Magneto damage so he does ~150k less before super

    Force Spencer up grapple to scale with damage

    Slightly Nerf XF2 and 3

    +Buff

    Increase Strider, RR, and Akuma health to 800k

    Buff Arthur, Chun Li, Iron Man, Nemesis, She Hulk, Tron, Hsien Ko, Iron Fist, Phoenix Wright, Shuma
    Even when I say nothing it's a positive use of negative space
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,005 ✭✭✭✭✭
    These are all great ideas and remove a lot of the stupid derp in the game.

    Thank you person I don't know at all.
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • GomuGomuGomuGomu Strider Sucks Joined: Posts: 8,402 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Iron Fist

    - Make cr.l a low hitting kick with good range. The range on his lights are terrible and he has no fast lows to stop people jumping.
    - Slightly more knockdown time on air throws. Why do I have to perform some just frame shit to get a pick-up while niggas like Nova can whiff like three normals before he otgs?
    - Make Chi cancelable into Rekkas but keep the 3 Rekkas rule.
    - Let him perform Descending Fang off a wall jump. Give it the same angle as Gen's wall jump diagonal dive and make it crumple instead of wall bounce. Make it plus on block too.
    - Let :b:+:h: reflect projectiles instead of nullifying them.
    - slightly more stun on air normals so he can confirm off normal jump height
    Spoiler:


    Edit: Let him do Descending and Rising Fang off a wall jump.
    Strider still sucks.
  • MysticRayMysticRay Mashes Dive Kick Until It Works. Joined: Posts: 4,732
    Firebrand
    Increase health to 925,000 or buff Luminous body to 15 secs.
    Launcher should be -5 or something on block, not -12
    UMVC3 Teams: Kawaiibrand/Skrub/Whackbot . Kawaiibrand/Dog/Skrub
    Lovez the chubbays and Dark Magician Fatty.
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • AniMoneyAniMoney Joined: Posts: 930 ✭✭✭✭
    Wishlist: Let the game grow on it's own for a bit.
    UMVC3: Various Wolverine and Magneto teams.
    SSF4AE : Balrog/whoever, I don't play this much anymore
    I overthink everything and get bopped.
  • maziodynemaziodyne I'll crush you in one strike! Joined: Posts: 7,564
    Nerf Zero and give Dr. Strange these buffs and I might just find myself playing this game again.

    -2-way airdash.
    -Lower frame disadvantage on st.S by half, maybe -10 or something. -21 is just asking to get you killed.
    -Mystic Sword L hits all characters even when crouching, thereby giving him a safe blockstring. Keep neutral frame advantage. You really just have to adjust the hitbox of the last sword slash so that it hits crouching pixie characters in order to make it safe.
    -Make Spell of Vishanti safe on hit. Why the fuck can I end my combo in SoV in the corner and still get bopped during recovery? So stupid.
    -General increase on frame advantage on his moves. Safe cr.L is the only thing that really matters but giving a boost to his other normals as well would be nice.
    -Increased wavedash speed. Just slightly.

    edit: Make Daggers of Denak M not disappear if Strange is hit as well, so once they're out, opponent has to respect Strange's approach. Might give him legit pressure.
    Retired Mahvel scrub.
  • SiriusBlackSiriusBlack Nice Joined: Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭✭
    A lot of these changes (read: nerfs) would only serve to make many characters and consequently the game less interesting.

    And once again, if it ever happens, everyone who begged for a change to Spencer's up grapple scaling will get kicked in the chest.
    Wolv/Spencer/Akuma or Wesker/Doom/Spencer
    Spencer/Doom/Ammy or Mag/Doom/Ammy because A-bomb
    http://i48.tinypic.com/1fwva0.png
  • hybreezyhybreezy A Fraud Draws Near Joined: Posts: 7,490
    Berserker Charge should heal red life, there's absolutely no reason Devil Trigger gets to be faithfully represented and Wolverine's MUTANT POWER is completely ignored (no X-Factor doesn't count). Maybe he doesn't need it...I really don't care >__>.
    Mediocre at fighting games
  • cjaycrcjaycr Joined: Posts: 992 ✭✭
    True, Capcom is very, very committed to their original designs, they rarely make changes beyond frame data tweaks.

    The only announcement that would convince me otherwise is if the tell us ArkSys will be doing the rebalance.
    UMvC3XX AC+R AE ver.2012. My body would not be ready.
    [Zero]
    - Remove Lightning Loop (the more important nerf IMHO).
    - Remove Buster Cancelling (or at least, do not allow for Setsuizan xx Buter OTGs).
    or
    - Make all versions of Raikouzen slower in startup (significantly).
    Couldn't they remove lightning loop (at least unassisted) by removing buster charging during super freeze? I imagined it'd make it so you can only get one rep per assist which will help curb some of the meterless damage nonsense Zero is capable of beforehand. Then they could adjust the scaling (aka give'em the Dante).

    Buster Cancelling is dumb, but if there was a patch I imagine it would stay much to the chagrin of many people.
    Invisibility Frames.
  • ironboy89ironboy89 Beep Boop Beep Joined: Posts: 4,659 ✭✭✭
    Personally I think removing the buster cancel would nerf Zero harder than the lighting loop would.

    However, I would just make Raikosen significantly and lower his min damaging scale to levels of Firebrand.
  • FlyingVeFlyingVe Best Poster of All Time Joined: Posts: 12,983 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So... Um... I really hope Capcom doesn't listen to most of you.

    The lightning loop is fine, it's Zero's minimum scaling that's the issue.

    I might post a list of my suggested changes, but most of you would be surprised at how small most of them would be.
    UMvC3: Viper/Dante/Strider, Jill/Dante/Wesker, Nova/Spencer/Sentinel
    Killer Instinct: Thunder, Spinal, Jago
    SF4: Hugo, Abel, Oni, Yang
    SF3:Yang
  • ironboy89ironboy89 Beep Boop Beep Joined: Posts: 4,659 ✭✭✭
    It's not like Capcom has or ever will listen to anybody here anyway.
  • Crazy_mofo213Crazy_mofo213 It's my BnB, I never f*ck it up Joined: Posts: 1,971
    Buff my characters, and nerf everyone else's. Do it Capcom!

    Seriously though, all I want is Tron's old j.H back. I don't even care about her invincible assist.
    UMVC3: (Felicia/Taskmaster/Rocket Raccoon) (Felicia/Taskmaster/Dr. Doom)
    BB: Tsubaki/Platinum
    3S/SSF4: Ibuki
    XBL: FrenchFry213
  • FlyingVeFlyingVe Best Poster of All Time Joined: Posts: 12,983 ✭✭✭✭✭
    True, it just seems like a lot of people don't understand why a character sucks or is too good.

    For example, the lightning loop is not the reason Zero is a god.
    UMvC3: Viper/Dante/Strider, Jill/Dante/Wesker, Nova/Spencer/Sentinel
    Killer Instinct: Thunder, Spinal, Jago
    SF4: Hugo, Abel, Oni, Yang
    SF3:Yang
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