UMVC3 Patch/Balance Discussion *NO PATCH...but word is out of possible ALL CAPCOM VS game coming*

DevilJin 01

Alright so we know there's a lot of rumor going around about possible balance changes for the game.

We also know that there's a small, minute, insignificant chance that Capcom might change things revolving the basic mechanics like toning down or removing XF, changing the button set up, how the hit boxes work, how teleport cross ups work etc. BTW that's your cue to stop dreaming and start playing Skullgirls or MVC2. Wishing MVC3 was more like your favorite game is too much 2010 SFIV BS that just derails the tier thread way too much.




We know shit might be going down so I made this thread so it can be discussed specifically here. The tier thread is to discuss stuff that is currently coded in the game and generally the potential for how the characters and players will unlock the game in the future through said code. It's not to discuss core gameplay changes that have 0.1 percent chance of ever happening. Although it's not as bad...I would like to keep balance discussion to a minimum in the tier thread also unless it becomes official.




NOW GOGOGOGOGO.


EDIT: What I feel will most likely happen. Will be interesting to see how much of what I estimate is correct if this so happens.

Spoiler:

I pretty much like the game the way it is other than Astral Vision being a full retard super for only burning a meter and Zero being balanced by a crack addict.

Yeah the game's got durpy stuff and whatever but the top players especially have learned to adapt to a lot of it and seeing Fanatiq block all of that cross up shit J.Wong's Vergil was doing on reaction was inspiring to say the least. It's just a game where you have to be playing it and just have to be able to have that gut reaction to block setups when you're in those situations. Otherwise of course the first thing is to make a team that allows you to avoid setups in the first place.

I have Skullgirls and VF5 FS if I wanna play less durpy games any way.


Most of the stuff I wanted changed/fixed outside of XF2/3 still being a bit retarded already got fixed in Ultimate. It's actually pretty surprising how much of the stuff I was hoping Doom, Morrigan and others would get that they ended up getting (which is funny cuz they both work really well together now).




So instead...I'm just gonna list what I predict Capcom will most likely change (more specifically nerf cuz that's all they do) regarding the cast.

Bold = Anyone that gets discussed a lot regarding their strength that Capcom will most likely address very carefully.



Akuma: Might possibly buff his health to 800k. Probably gonna keep him the same otherwise.

Ammy: Eh...probably gonna stay the same minus maybe a slight damage buff. Probably the same otherwise.

Arthur: Might actually get a dash. Probably some extra buffs to his projectiles. Probably not though.

C.Viper: Probably have a damage scaling reduction or just overall damage nerf on some her moves. Will most likely stay the same otherwise. I'm pretty sure Capcom is certain she doesn't need any actual buffs.

Captain America: Doubt he's getting much. He got a lot of buffs already and Capcom probably won't do too much extra to him to keep with the whole "make everybody unique" philosophy.

Chris Redfield: Probably gonna be the same. Might even get a damage nerf just cuz Capcom nerfs.

Chun Li: Most likely gonna stay the same. I wish they would improve her projectile game just a bit more but...they gonna do them.

Dante: Most likely gonna stay the same. They might actually buff his damage a bit...but probably not.

Deadpool: Same.

Doctor Strange: Might get a forward/back air dash. Could possibly get safer frames on normals and projectiles. That's about all I would think he would get though.

Dorm: Most likely will get nerfs to hit boxes on his normals or the damage on his supers. Probably get a nerf to the speed of f+H. Probably staying the same other than that.

Dr.Doom: Will most likely get a Wolverine style nerf to his dive kick hit box that still won't keep it from being very durp. Might get a damage reduction.


Hidden Missiles is too important to have in a game where if you get touched, you die or get really really fucked up. Don't expect any changes to the assist because the assist isn't relevant for at least 3 or 4 seconds any way and plenty of characters have moves that push them past the missiles. I'm pretty sure Capcom realizes Morrigan is most of the problem and will just leave the rest up to people playing smart against the assist.

Felicia: Most likely gonna stay the same.

Firebrand: Might get a damage buff. Otherwise will probably stay the same.

Frank West: Same.

Ghost Rider: Probably will get a damage buff. Might get chip damage normals as he was originally rumored to have.

Haggar: Same.

Hawkeye: Might get some buffed hit boxes or frames on some of his normals. Otherwise same.

Hsien Ko: Hopefully gets a speed increase. Maybe longer duration on armor.

Hulk: Probably the same.

Iron Fist: Will probably get improved hit box on launcher. Will probably stay the same other than that.

Iron Man: Maybe another buff to some of his hit boxes and maybe his dash. Might get other insignificant buffs. Very likely he won't get any changes as I'm sure Capcom probably feels we're just missing something with him. He was the most switched around character in the game pretty much. Even more so than Dante. You don't do that much changing unless you're confident in your changes.

Jill: Possibly maybe a damage increase. Might get an extra aerial option. Otherwise same.

MODOK: Most likely the same.

Magneto: Might get another nerf to his gravitation special. Otherwise will probably stay the same.

Morrigan: Most likely will have astral vision nerfed in some way. Either it won't build meter (outside of comboing into soul drain) or it will deactivate if she is hit. Or both.

Nemesis: Probably get buffs to the frames on his normals and possibly his supers.

Nova: Same.

Phoenix: Same.

Phoenix Wright: Might get damage or speed buff. Otherwise same. He was made to be gimmicky on purpose so doubt they're going to do anything much to do that.

Rocket Raccoon: Could get a health buff. Possibly damage buff also. Other than that...same.

Ryu: Could possibly get the ability to OTG combo off air throw somehow without using super. Probably not cuz Capcom.

Sentinel: Could possibly see a speed or damage increase. Really doubt they'll give him more health because they are most likely still scarred from all the scrub whining early on.

She Hulk: Possibly damage buff and fixes to her emerald cannon super. Other than that...same.

Shuma Gorath: Maybe a speed or damage buff. Otherwise same.

Spencer: Most like gonna have added scaling to some of his specials and nerfed damage. Speed on grapples will most likely stay the same. Same otherwise.

Spider Man: Probably the same.

Storm: Could use a damage buff but probably the same.

Strider Hiryu: Possibly a health buff, Ouroboros might end up lasting a bit longer (most likely not on both though).

Super Skrull: Same.

Taskmaster: Same. Might get a slight health nerf. Probably not though.

Thor: Same except maybe some from changes.

Trish: Same.

Tron: May get buff to her frames or hit boxes. Otherwise same.

Vergil: Most likely nerf to frames and hit boxes. Otherwise the same.

V.Joe: Same.

Wesker: Will probably get nerf to a couple hit boxes. Most likely will retain shades power up.

Wolverine: Might get change to scaling on some moves (specifically fatal claw super).

X-23: Possibly a health or damage buff. Probably not much else.

Zero: Nerf to damage scaling, hit boxes and MAYBE nerf to buster cancelling.




General Stuff: XF might get another nerf, TAC's may actually be affected by scaling before you touch the ground...but don't expect any other changes.

Spoiler:

Vorkosigan

I can definitely see Spencer's unscaled upgrapple being changed to normal in any possible patch

If the complaining keeps up about Morrigan then no-meter Astral Vision will happen too

ironboy89

People need to seriously keep in that mind that Capcom historically do not know what they are doing.

SFIV did not signficantly change from Vanilla, Super, AE, AE2012. If you hate SFIV, no patch will change how you don't like it.

FlyingVe

True, Capcom is very, very committed to their original designs, they rarely make changes beyond frame data tweaks.

The only announcement that would convince me otherwise is if the tell us ArkSys will be doing the rebalance.

The Duke

Fix the stupid untechable throw shit pls thx

DevilJin 01

The Duke, post: 7082199, member: 57024 wrote:

Fix the stupid untechable throw shit pls thx

You're talking about the Marlin Pie guard break style stuff?

The Duke

What ever the bug is where the game treats you like you're on the ground while you're airborne and you can't tech.

Kef

I only want a few changes:
[General]
- Lower damage of XF even more. Decrease lenght of Lv.2 XF and Lv.3 XF.
- Make TACs more reactable, maybe a little less than grabs within combos in BlazBlue (pretty easy to react to).
- Remove the ability to call assits during knockdown roll.

[Zero]
- Remove Lightning Loop (the more important nerf IMHO).
- Remove Buster Cancelling (or at least, do not allow for Setsuizan xx Buter OTGs).
or
- Make all versions of Raikouzen slower in startup (significantly).

[Iron-Man]
+ Make cr. push the opponent closer to you, both on hit and on block.
+ Make air-dash like Vanilla MVC3.
+ More hitstun on the last hit of Proton Cannon (more personal than anything).
+ Unibeam do more chip damage.

[She-Hulk]
+ Give her the vanilla slide.
+ Allow cr. to be chainable.
+ Lightpost move being able to destroy projectiles (not sure if it already does).

[Strider, Akuma, Rocket Raccoon]
+ Bring Strider, Akuma, and RR to 800k health.

I don't think Zero is above the whole top tier, but I just like having to work for my damage (like resets).

FuLLBLeeD

Iron Man needs a better fucking ground dash.

Its so infuriating to me that half the characters problems could be solved if he didn't have such a shitty wave dash. It has to be an oversight.

[Iron Man]
BETTER GROUND DASH
More hitsun on ground and air smart bombs
Faster startup on all versions of Unibeam and Repulsar Blast
More untechable time after Repulsar Spread
Better recovery/more damage on proton cannon
Bigger hitbox on c.M, s.H and j.M

Mr. X

Buff Zero and Viper again.

Goby

Give wolverine back his invincible berserker slash.

FlyingVe

Buff Viper. She still sucks because no one plays her.

Also, nerf Wesker because everyone uses him.

23mikey

DevilJin 01, post: 7082217, member: 1242 wrote:

You're talking about the Marlin Pie guard break style stuff?

Damn everything must've been created by Marlinpie according to SRK logic... Like sentinel players haven't been doing that shit since forever :S

-Nerf Xfactor again, seems like the only reasonable thing that Capcom would be willing to do

DevilJin 01

23mikey, post: 7082696, member: 66794 wrote:

Damn everything must've been created by Marlinpie according to SRK logic... Like sentinel players haven't been doing that shit since forever :S

-Nerf Xfactor again, seems like the only reasonable thing that Capcom would be willing to do

Now it's the Sentinel player #342342 guard break. Marlin Pie is just the first person to make it really relevant with a point character instead of an anchor with sub par abilities on his own that won't have an assist to back it up any way.

Duck Strong

Bleh

Non character specific changes that would be nice:

• no XFC
• no TAC's
• different button scheme (no need to negative edge assist calls please)
• 2 button throws or make them more than 1 frame to mitigate retarded OS's
• Lose red life when DHC'ing to a character like MvC2
• Completely remove ability to buffer inputs during super freeze.
• give all install supers more startup and recovery
• remove ability to call assists while rolling or tech flipping
• combos starting with prorate damage at least by 25%
• change cross counter to alpha counter motion so it doesn't overlap with reversal snap back attempts
• hard tags no longer overheads
• completely overhaul scaling system to at least minimum 20% damage for everyone while decreasing base damage on most normals (character specific considerations of course). This will add extra incentive to do longer combos and make basic abcxxsuper combos do far less damage.
• reduce meter gain some more
• Make mashed supers difficult(read impossible) to get full hits. Make them do significantly less damage than in vanilla if not fully mashed. Fully mashed = Vanilla damage.
• Get rid of/slow down canned unreactable auto-crossup moves or somehow reduce the payoff/make them cost meter (teleports + assist and berserker slash are stupid moves, don't pretend otherwise)
• Put a bit of thought into who gets a full combo after a throw. Shit is completely arbitrary now.
• Vastly reduce range on airthrows and increase height restrictions.
• Overhaul lots of hitboxes, no more turning around 4 times during ground string, no more hitting characters in the air with your ass. Less disjointed hitboxes (even swords should be able to trade).
• Start of round should not let you move. Some characters have way too much of an advantage at the start while others just plain suck.
• Push back should be way further after teching throws to avoid the stupidity of "who can mash + the fastest." Maybe give the person who initiated the throw slight frame advantage.
• Revert assists to ignore HSD like in Vanilla.
• Make it so assists take less damage, but are vulnerable much longer after they attack.
• Assists don't attack if point character is hit while they are called (like MvC2).
• Make double tap dashes tighter so doesn't make you dash if you do it too fast.

I can think of more, but they probably wouldn't be very popular, lol. (i.e. get rid of sweep into launcher please, shit is stupid and makes spacing chains a non-issue)

FuLLBLeeD

Ghost Rider:
-Chip Damage Whip Normals

Shuma Gorath:
-Throw invincibility on Mystic Smash

Phoenix Wright:
-Level 3 should be an instant kill

Bonuspokus

Nerf the shit out of Doom's missiles, they should disappear if Doom gets hit. That assist is ridiculous and he already has 2 strong assists.
Give She-hulk her old slide and nerf Nova's slide (he has too many tools already)
Fix Helm Breaker's hit box, the coat shouldn't hit and I'm also starting to consider that his version of Ouroboros should be nerfed so that they don't cut through everything (or make it cost at least 2 levels to activate).
Nova shouldn't be able to force additional ground bounces.
Give Arthur a ground dash.
Improve Chun Li's damage
Improve Storm's damage.
Give Sentinel more health OR make his flight mode as fast as his MvC2 version.
Give Nemesis more health and add super armor to more moves and improve his damage from DHCs.
Rocket Raccoon, Firebrand, Amaterasu, Akuma, Strider and X-23 need to have more life.
Give Super Skrull the ability to choose the angle of his dash like Amaterasu (Box dashing would make many things easier)
Thor's Mighty Thunder should push the enemy away if he blocks (just like Magneto's shockwave)
Give Iron Fist a real launcher and you're good to go.
Fix Tron, I don't know how, just do it.
Give Dr. Strange an air dash and improve his normals.
Fix Iron Man's ground dash so that he can properly wave dash and give him his old air dash back.
Storm's H normals feel awkward, make it so that they come out faster.
Morrigan shouldn't be able to get meter when Astral Vision is active.
Trish needs faster start up on Round Trip and Low Voltage should come out faster. (Even tho SRK overrates her, she isn't THAT good)
Fix Spencer's damage scaling.

Phoenix
(I tried the health changes in H&H using the Luke Cage cards)
(making Phoenix more viable as a point character but at the same time making Dark Phoenix less extreme)
IF X-FACTOR STAYS IN THE GAME
-Give Phoenix 600k-700k HP and make it so that the cost for Dark Phoenix is 5 lvls AND X-factor, if DP activates, X-factor disappears
IF X-FACTOR GETS REMOVED FROM THE GAME
-Give Phoenix 700k HP and let Dark Phoenix activate with the 5 levels, so that you have to tag her out or use her healing Hyper to keep DP alive.

Hsien KO (tried some of this changes in H&H)
Make Senbu Pu cancellable.
Henkyo Ki should come out faster, have more hitstun and OTG properties.
The bombs should hit.
Anki-Hou should allow Hsien Ko to throw at least 3 items in a row with multiple button presses (kinda like Tron shooting servbots)
Her ground and air dashes should be faster and also travel a longer distance.
Give her the ability to perform a second jump.
Improve her overall damage or change the way that hit stun scaling works with her so that she can perform longer combos with her multiple hitting abilities.
Her swords hyper should come out faster and make more damage.
Crouching H should be a fast, long reaching slide just like She-hulk's old slide.

Shuma Gorath (tried these changes in H&H)
Give shuma gorath the ability to cancel his air normals with a dash (believe me it makes a HUGE difference and makes the character a lot more viable AND FUN)
Make Mystic stare easier to connect, change its hitstun or something.
I don't know if this would be broken but it would be cool to give him some sort of super armor when he uses mystic smash.


If I come up with anything else, I will add it.

Mr Twister

Here's my list of suggestions:

Buffs:
-Make Iron Fist's hit opponents in a knockdown state, or at least give him an alternate command launcher like Doctor Doom's f. Hard Kick. Make his cr. hit low. Give him a double jump.
-Make Phoenix Wright's cr. hit Low in Turnabout Mode, make Bad Evidence never appear until after 3 pieces of Good Evidence have been obtained, so the player can choose between going straight to Turnabout Mode or trying to get their preferred pieces of Evidence. Generally put the less useful ones first. Make Cell Phone or Document come up later, for example.
-Fix everything about Hsien-Ko and Iron Man's dashes.
-Give Iron Man his Knee Drop in the air, make it cause a Ground Bounce.
-Give Arthur an actual dash.
-Make She-Hulk's Clothesline cause a Hard Knockdown against airborne opponents like it did in Vanilla, make cr. Rapid Fire again, increase cr. slide distance to what it was in Vanilla. Do something to make Lights Out! useful outside of being flashy, maybe force a wall bounce, for example. Also, two-way airdash. If Chun-Li can have one, so can She-Hulk.
-Hyper Armor and invincible start-up on Nemesis T-Type's Biohazard Rush, invincible start-up on Fatal Mutation.
-Rimoukon lasts longer. More buffs for Hsien-Ko would be needed, but I wouldn't even know where to start. I've already mentioned the dashing problem, but damn.
-Make Doctor Strange and Tron's at less of a frame disadvantage, -21 and -20 are ludicrous.

Nerfs:
-Make Zero's minimum damage scaling much lower.
-Make Vergil less stupid, just change him in general to make him good, but not as dumb as he currently is.
-Reduce, but do not remove, meter gain from Astral Vision, maybe cut it in half while the clone is active.
-Reduce untechable time from Doctor Doom's j. and Nova's air throw.
-Increase the start-up of Electromagnetic Disruptor.
-Make Wesker, Doctor Doom, and Storm's more unsafe on block.

General Changes:
-Reduce time that X-Factor is active for all three levels, and make minimum damage scaling even lower. Smaller damage and speed boost.
-More time to react to a TAC. Make the character light up before hitting, not after. This allows the player to see which way they need to counter, and give more of a chance to break out of the combo. It's still better than what happened when you countered TACs in the earliest beta builds of Vanilla.

That's all I can think of for now, if I think of anything else I'll edit the message.

DevilJin 01

Typical stuff in here although when it comes to Iron Man...

What is this about fixing the dash SPECIFICALLY so that he has a better wave dash? Learn to plink dash like Wolverine. A majority of the cast can both wave and plink dash any way. Iron Man is just another character like Doom or Morrigan where you just don't wave dash to power their ground movement. Figure that shit out.

The only thing you guys really want is faster action start up off the dash so you can apply his footsies a bit faster during the actual dash.


It's cool that you guys want shit changed...but at least make sure you're describing stuff that doesn't just force you to step up your execution slightly to improve.





My bets are hidden missiles doesn't get changed at all but Morrigan gets changed up instead.

J.D

Dear Capcom
Make sure that there are at least 4 or 5 characters who are better than all the others so I can continue to be a tier whore.

Sincerely
- A Tier Whore

FuLLBLeeD

DevilJin 01, post: 7083017, member: 1242 wrote:

Typical stuff in here although when it comes to Iron Man...

What is this about fixing the dash SPECIFICALLY so that he has a better wave dash? Learn to plink dash like Wolverine. A majority of the cast can both wave and plink dash any way. Iron Man is just another character like Doom or Morrigan where you just don't wave dash to power their ground movement. Figure that shit out.

The only thing you guys really want is faster action start up off the dash so you can apply his footsies a bit faster during the actual dash.


It's cool that you guys want shit changed...but at least make sure you're describing stuff that doesn't just force you to step up your execution slightly to improve.





My bets are hidden missiles doesn't get changed at all but Morrigan gets changed up instead.

Specifically, I want to be able to follow up forward throws and Repulsar spread midscreen. His normal dash/plink dash isn't good enough for either of those things.

DevilJin 01

FuLLBLeeD, post: 7083100, member: 14909 wrote:

Specifically, I want to be able to follow up forward throws and Repulsar spread midscreen. His normal dash/plink dash isn't good enough for either of those things.

The forward throw thing is a bit of an issue, but at least from what I remember Duck Strong saying you can convert into full combos off repulsor blast already.

FlyingVe

DevilJin 01, post: 7083017, member: 1242 wrote:

What is this about fixing the dash SPECIFICALLY so that he has a better wave dash? Learn to plink dash like Wolverine. A majority of the cast can both wave and plink dash any way. Iron Man is just another character like Doom or Morrigan where you just don't wave dash to power their ground movement. Figure that shit out.
.

Apparently you play a version of Iron Man without 11 frames of startup on his dash.

Fuck, in this game, whole teams can die in less than 11 frames.

FuLLBLeeD

DevilJin 01, post: 7083105, member: 1242 wrote:

The forward throw thing is a bit of an issue, but at least from what I remember Duck Strong saying you can convert into full combos off repulsor blast already.

If there is a way to do it I'd love to know, as far as I know you are forced to use 3 bars to combo off spread. You can link normals after it but its very inconsistent.

I know how to plink dash but Iron Man's dash is still not that great, if you could cancel it on like frame 5 instead of 11 for example it would be a lot better.

DevilJin 01

FlyingVe, post: 7083110, member: 23416 wrote:

Apparently you play a version of Iron Man without 11 frames of startup on his dash.

Fuck, in this game, whole teams can die in less than 11 frames.

Well considering Morrigan and Doom have similar ground dash problems that you must take to the air to account for...there really isn't much of a difference with the Iron guy other than his hit conversions being harder to set up.

The dash really isn't that much of a problem since it is better than both of their ground dashes any way. The bigger issue is that other characters who have worse ground dashes like Morrigan and Doom have superior air to ground conversion and space control. Iron Man can hit areas of the screen that Doom can't on his own, but Doom can convert off the situations he can much more easily than Iron Man.

FuLLBLeeD

Iron Man's bad dash keeps him from utilizing his tools, which are his strong normals and Repulsar Blast xx Spread. That isn't an issue for Morrigan or Doom.

DevilJin 01

FuLLBLeeD, post: 7083116, member: 14909 wrote:

If there is a way to do it I'd love to know, as far as I know you are forced to use 3 bars to combo off spread. You can link normals after it but its very inconsistent.

I know how to plink dash but Iron Man's dash is still not that great, if you could cancel it on like frame 5 instead of 11 for example it would be a lot better.

You can already combo off of repulsor blast. Repulsor spread just helps to keep repulsor blast safer if it is blocked or whiffed. Ideally you'll want an assist covering to make it harder to hit Iron Man during.

FuLLBLeeD, post: 7083137, member: 14909 wrote:

Iron Man's bad dash keeps him from utilizing his tools, which are his strong normals and Repulsar Blast xx Spread. That isn't an issue for Morrigan or Doom.

The correct assists can help mitigate such issue like I said earlier. If he had a faster air dash and better back hit boxes for his aerial normals it wouldn't be as much an issue. That's really all they really need to improve with him other than making some of his conversions easier if they feel that's absolutely necessary. If he had the durp air game like Morrigan and Doom no one would care about his ground dash.

Doom and Morrigan are never on the ground long enough for their shitty dashes to be much of a factor.

Momochuu

The only things I would like in this game:

Slightly alter the damage scaling on Dante's specials to where the last sequences of his combos don't do like 2K per attack. Don't make his damage scaling stupid like Vanilla but at least make the man not have to burn super to take off the last 3K health he's been doing Beehives to get rid of for the last 15 seconds.
Give Dante back his old st.L.
Decrease the frames on Dante's cr.L by 2 frames. I think that a move that doesn't even hit (read: completely whiffs) on certain characters in the game deserves to be a little faster.
Give Sentinel 1.1M health, no other changes.
Give She-Hulk her chainable cr.L back, keep slide distance the same as it is in Ultimate (still a good move), take away the wall bounce on Clothesline.
Get rid of assists causing HSD.
Take away the ability to call assists during wakeup roll (this should have been removed back in Vanilla and it doesn't even seem like they realized how much of a problem it is).
Remove Lightning Loop by making the startup on Raikousen much longer.
Make Vergil's cr.H a normal hit instead of a soft knockdown, make Vergil's st.L a little bit slower, reduce the speed on his cr.L slightly.

that's all I can think of for now.

Osbjorn

I was hoping they would leave the game alone.
But still I do want to see more she hulks, modoks, iron men, and hsien ko players out there.
I also think capcom should let morridoom cook for a bit before they hand out any nerfs.

FuLLBLeeD

DevilJin 01, post: 7083141, member: 1242 wrote:

You can already combo off of repulsor blast. Repulsor spread just helps to keep repulsor blast safer if it is blocked or whiffed. Ideally you'll want an assist covering to make it harder to hit Iron Man during.

Comboing off Repulsar Blast (raw Blast no spread) is really hard without just doing spread into Iron Avenger. I'm telling ya man, spending 3 bars is really your only option with any sort of consistency to combo off it, unless you are close to the corner, in which case you can do dash L Smart Bombs, c.M combo afterwards. It would just be nice to do that midscreen since Repulsar Blast is easily his best move, and comboing off spread midscreen is impossible with his bad ground dash.

Many characters in this game get combos off their best special moves rather easily, Iron Man doesn't have the mobility to do that.

But I will say I think his air mobility is fine and actually suits his playstyle in this game. Its just his ground dash that needs tweaking. Its completely counter-intuitive to his toolset.

Nitro Noodlez

Give Morrigan Soul Eraser and Give Iron Man back his Knee Drop and his dash speed. That is all.

Nos99

Duck Strong, post: 7082737, member: 2721 wrote:

Bleh

• 2 button throws or make them more than 1 frame to mitigate retarded OS's
• Lose red life when DHC'ing to a character like MvC2
• Completely remove ability to buffer inputs during super freeze.
• give all install supers more startup and recovery
• remove ability to call assists while rolling or tech flipping
• combos starting with prorate damage at least by 25%
• change cross counter to alpha counter motion so it doesn't overlap with reversal snap back attempts
• hard tags no longer overheads
• completely overhaul scaling system to at least minimum 20% damage for everyone while decreasing base damage on most normals (character specific considerations of course). This will add extra incentive to do longer combos and make basic abcxxsuper combos do far less damage.
• reduce meter gain some more
• Make mashed supers difficult(read impossible) to get full hits. Make them do significantly less damage than in vanilla if not fully mashed. Fully mashed = Vanilla damage.
• Get rid of/slow down canned unreactable auto-crossup moves or somehow reduce the payoff/make them cost meter (teleports + assist and berserker slash are stupid moves, don't pretend otherwise)
• Put a bit of thought into who gets a full combo after a throw. Shit is completely arbitrary now.
• Vastly reduce range on airthrows and increase height restrictions.
• Overhaul lots of hitboxes, no more turning around 4 times during ground string, no more hitting characters in the air with your ass. Less disjointed hitboxes (even swords should be able to trade).
• Push back should be way further after teching throws to avoid the stupidity of "who can mash + the fastest." Maybe give the person who initiated the throw slight frame advantage.
• Revert assists to ignore HSD like in Vanilla.
• Make it so assists take less damage, but are vulnerable much longer after they attack.
• Assists don't attack if point character is hit while they are called (like MvC2).
• Make double tap dashes tighter so doesn't make you dash if you do it too fast.

I can think of more, but they probably wouldn't be very popular, lol. (i.e. get rid of sweep into launcher please, shit is stupid and makes spacing chains a non-issue)

These are all great ideas and remove a lot of the stupid derp in the game.

J.D

Oh and another thing.
I would buy a whole new retail copy if we can get 0 input delay online mode.
Fuck variable input delay seriously.
You can still enjoy the game, but you have to deal with a lot of stuff that has no competitive value.

DevilJin 01

FuLLBLeeD, post: 7083158, member: 14909 wrote:

Comboing off Repulsar Blast (raw Blast no spread) is really hard without just doing spread into Iron Avenger. I'm telling ya man, spending 3 bars is really your only option with any sort of consistency to combo off it, unless you are close to the corner, in which case you can do dash L Smart Bombs, c.M combo afterwards. It would just be nice to do that midscreen since Repulsar Blast is easily his best move, and comboing off spread midscreen is impossible with his bad ground dash.

Many characters in this game get combos off their best special moves rather easily, Iron Man doesn't have the mobility to do that.

But I will say I think his air mobility is fine and actually suits his playstyle in this game. Its just his ground dash that needs tweaking. Its completely counter-intuitive to his toolset.

Nah his air mobility really hurts him when he's in a spot outside of the first spot as it makes it overly easy to welcome mix him up as he's coming in. It's the single thing that makes him the hardest to play in any spot but the first spot.

The single biggest problem I ran into with Iron Man is the lack of speed in his air dash and lack of hit boxes that extend well behind him making it near impossible to escape welcome mix ups. Putting Iron Man in a welcome mix up is as easy as dashing behind him as he's falling in. If they dash behind you, you're fucked.

His ground dash could use a tweak but like Morrigan or Doom, it's more about just improving the durp of his conversions from the air (just make them flat out easier) and people would be fine.

AzureJericho

Buff the everloving shit out of Hsien-Ko plz:

- Make pendulums cancellable with S up to 3 times in the air
- cr.H and Anki Hou H items OTG capable
- Increased foward momentum and speed on her airdash and ground dash "hop-a-port"
- Gong Assist is H version, starts up in front of point character

Derp mode buffs

- L command grab has M startup and range, M command grab has H range, H command grab changed to an anti-air command grab

- Bomb tosses assigned to a command normal, Anki Hou items follow the Vampire Savior patterns to determine stun items before tosses.

- Tenraiha's iron press making contact with the ground causes stagewide hard knockdown to a standing opponent or assist. No damage unless iron balls/press land on you however.

Take health, take active time of Rikumon mode away, I don't care, but someone with such a unique fighting style and mobility options should not exist in this game in such a neutered manner.

Mr. Bubble

If there is the off-chance that there would actually be a balance patch, the only changes I would find reasonable at this point in the game's life are adjustments for characters introduced in Ultimate. All the vanilla characters had the benefit of at least one cycle of balance changes (for better or for worse) though, I think a general consensus regarding the Vanilla -> Ultimate transition was that it at least made a wider selection of characters in the roster more viable in high-level play. Poor Hsien-Ko though. :(

Aside from all that and addressing the strength of Hidden Missiles assist, any possible changes to the rest of the cast should be done carefully, selectively, and possibly minimally. I believe the game still has room to evolve and any other drastic changes in the same vein as the MvC3 -> UMvC3 transition wouldn't be reasonable right now.

Just my two cents as an internet nobody...

Yadi

i think crapcom should leave morridoom alone, combofiend beat them with fucking she hulk!

Keranata

Balance Wishlist

-Nerf

Don't change anything about Zero except reducing his minimum damage scaling so it's more in line with characters like him as opposed to Hulk, removing buster cancelling is dumb because it makes him way less fun.

Nerf Vergil in some way to tone down his incredible derp, teleport has more recovery, H and S frames or hitboxes, damage, helmbreaker now minus due to less blockstun and uncancellable to things that aren't super. There's a bunch of different ways you could do it just don't overdo it

Nerf Phoenix / Dark Phoenix again because, fuck it. Why should the character who forces you to change your entire gameplan not be somewhat low tier

Remove Firebrand's unblockable or make it charge longer so he can't do it after a snapback, or change the arc somehow so it doesn't hit at incoming character height

Nerf Wesker JS startup and hitbox, give him added recovery time on teleports

Nerf Hidden Missiles startup as an assist and shrink the hitbox from the silo behind doom

Remove F+H being cancelled into teleport, nerf JH hitbox for Dormammu

Nerf Sent drones somehow, increase Sentinel health to 1.15 or 1.2 million give him 5 to 15% faster flight speed

Nerf Magneto damage so he does ~150k less before super

Force Spencer up grapple to scale with damage

Slightly Nerf XF2 and 3

+Buff

Increase Strider, RR, and Akuma health to 800k

Buff Arthur, Chun Li, Iron Man, Nemesis, She Hulk, Tron, Hsien Ko, Iron Fist, Phoenix Wright, Shuma

Duck Strong

Nos99, post: 7083165, member: 251 wrote:

These are all great ideas and remove a lot of the stupid derp in the game.

Thank you person I don't know at all.

GomuGomu

Iron Fist

- Make cr.l a low hitting kick with good range. The range on his lights are terrible and he has no fast lows to stop people jumping.
- Slightly more knockdown time on air throws. Why do I have to perform some just frame shit to get a pick-up while niggas like Nova can whiff like three normals before he otgs?
- Make Chi cancelable into Rekkas but keep the 3 Rekkas rule.
- Let him perform Descending Fang off a wall jump. Give it the same angle as Gen's wall jump diagonal dive and make it crumple instead of wall bounce. Make it plus on block too.
- Let + reflect projectiles instead of nullifying them.
- slightly more stun on air normals so he can confirm off normal jump height

Spoiler:

Give him a dive kick

Edit: Let him do Descending and Rising Fang off a wall jump.

MysticRay

Firebrand
Increase health to 925,000 or buff Luminous body to 15 secs.
Launcher should be -5 or something on block, not -12

AniMoney

Wishlist: Let the game grow on it's own for a bit.

maziodyne

Nerf Zero and give Dr. Strange these buffs and I might just find myself playing this game again.

-2-way airdash.
-Lower frame disadvantage on st.S by half, maybe -10 or something. -21 is just asking to get you killed.
-Mystic Sword L hits all characters even when crouching, thereby giving him a safe blockstring. Keep neutral frame advantage. You really just have to adjust the hitbox of the last sword slash so that it hits crouching pixie characters in order to make it safe.
-Make Spell of Vishanti safe on hit. Why the fuck can I end my combo in SoV in the corner and still get bopped during recovery? So stupid.
-General increase on frame advantage on his moves. Safe cr.L is the only thing that really matters but giving a boost to his other normals as well would be nice.
-Increased wavedash speed. Just slightly.

edit: Make Daggers of Denak M not disappear if Strange is hit as well, so once they're out, opponent has to respect Strange's approach. Might give him legit pressure.

SiriusBlack

A lot of these changes (read: nerfs) would only serve to make many characters and consequently the game less interesting.

And once again, if it ever happens, everyone who begged for a change to Spencer's up grapple scaling will get kicked in the chest.

hybreezy

Berserker Charge should heal red life, there's absolutely no reason Devil Trigger gets to be faithfully represented and Wolverine's MUTANT POWER is completely ignored (no X-Factor doesn't count). Maybe he doesn't need it...I really don't care >__>.

cjaycr

FlyingVe, post: 7082192, member: 23416 wrote:

True, Capcom is very, very committed to their original designs, they rarely make changes beyond frame data tweaks.

The only announcement that would convince me otherwise is if the tell us ArkSys will be doing the rebalance.

UMvC3XX AC+R AE ver.2012. My body would not be ready.

Kef, post: 7082294, member: 19928 wrote:

[Zero]
- Remove Lightning Loop (the more important nerf IMHO).
- Remove Buster Cancelling (or at least, do not allow for Setsuizan xx Buter OTGs).
or
- Make all versions of Raikouzen slower in startup (significantly).

Couldn't they remove lightning loop (at least unassisted) by removing buster charging during super freeze? I imagined it'd make it so you can only get one rep per assist which will help curb some of the meterless damage nonsense Zero is capable of beforehand. Then they could adjust the scaling (aka give'em the Dante).

Buster Cancelling is dumb, but if there was a patch I imagine it would stay much to the chagrin of many people.

ironboy89

Personally I think removing the buster cancel would nerf Zero harder than the lighting loop would.

However, I would just make Raikosen significantly and lower his min damaging scale to levels of Firebrand.

FlyingVe

So... Um... I really hope Capcom doesn't listen to most of you.

The lightning loop is fine, it's Zero's minimum scaling that's the issue.

I might post a list of my suggested changes, but most of you would be surprised at how small most of them would be.

ironboy89

It's not like Capcom has or ever will listen to anybody here anyway.

Crazy_mofo213

Buff my characters, and nerf everyone else's. Do it Capcom!

Seriously though, all I want is Tron's old j.H back. I don't even care about her invincible assist.

FlyingVe

True, it just seems like a lot of people don't understand why a character sucks or is too good.

For example, the lightning loop is not the reason Zero is a god.