UMVC3 Patch/Balance Discussion *NO PATCH...but word is out of possible ALL CAPCOM VS game coming*

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  • The UltimatorThe Ultimator I fight for my friends. Joined: Posts: 1,977
    Zero
    Remove lightning loop and buster cancels (leaving it so that you can cancel command dashes with the buster, but nothing else)
    Increase the scaling of special moves

    Viper
    Remove invincibility on EX Seismo and give it 2 hits of super armor instead
    Increase the scaling of special moves

    Vergil
    Spiral swords should no longer destroy projectiles, especially hyper combo projectiles, but should still be able to out prioritize most normals.
    Increase scaling of special moves a little bit. (like 5% or so)
    Make Vergil's helm breaker more unsafe on block, like Dante's.

    Dorm
    Increase scaling of special moves
    Make it so that combos off of meteors scales the combo more heavily.
    Maybe reduce the hitbox on his normals slightly

    Spencer
    Make up-wire-grapples scale at 50%

    Wesker
    Remove glasses buff

    Tron
    Give back her old Vanilla j.H
    Give Gustaff Fire assist 2 hits of super armor

    Phoenix Wright
    Give him a better wavedash
    Give him his old turnabout assist pre-HnH patch back
    Make Turnabout mode last 50 seconds

    Iron Fist
    Give him a better S
    Give him an overhead that isn't so slow
    Give him some sort of air option

    And buff Hsien-Ko somehow, but I don't know anything about the character, so I left her out.
    XBL: The Ultimator25
    Retired from UMvC3 – at least for now.
    SSBM & Project M – Mains: Ike, Marth
    Chrom or Lucina for Smash 4!
  • The DukeThe Duke Joined: Posts: 14,291 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • smashingmesmashingme Hero Joined: Posts: 495
    2 things if Capcom actually reads this:

    1. Don't balance this game, let the game evolve.

    2. If you have to balance it: ask tournament players, stop reading this topic.
    SFIV - Guy/Guile
    UMVC3 - Wolverine/Spencer/Akuma
  • SerrisSerris ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Joined: Posts: 367
    Chun-Li
    • New move: :hcb: :atk: Hazanshu. Overhead attack. Distance traveled across the screen depends on :l:, :m:, or :h:. All versions cause a ground bounce.
    • EX Spinning Bird Kick charge time is now identical to :l:, :m:, and :h: versions of Spinning Bird Kick. Input changed to (charge):d::u: :s:. Adjusted to cost one level of hyper gauge.
    • Decreased number of start-up frames on :l: and :m: versions of Kikoken to match :h:.
    Doctor Doom
    • Decreased the amount of un-techable frames after being hit by Foot Dive :s:.
    • Hidden Missiles now disappear when assist is hit.
    Hsien-Ko
    • Increased ground and air dash speed.
    • Chireitou can now be performed in the air.
    • Senpu Bu now hits off the ground.
    • Senpu Bu can now be canceled by Henkyo Ki once per jump.
    Iron Fist
    • Existing :s: launcher now hits when opponent is in a crumpled state.
    Iron Man
    • Increased ground and air dash speed.
    • Reduced number of start-up frames on :s: launcher.
    Jill
    • Increased hit box sizes of all air normals.
    Morrigan
    • Astral Vision shadow double no longer gives meter on successful hits.
    Phoenix
    • Healing Field now persists while tagged out.
    • Changed TK Trap assist to :l: instead of :h:.
    Sentinel
    • Health increased to 1,150,000.
    She-Hulk
    • Can now rapidly chain crouching :l: attacks.
    • Clothesline no longer causes a wall bounce.
    • Torpedo slide length increased.
    Tron
    • Decreased hit stun decay of Bandit Boulder.
    • Knock back of jumping :h: reduced slightly.
    Vergil
    • Helmet Breaker's frame advantage on block reduced.
    • Spiral Swords' durability points reduced against all projectiles.
    Zero
    • Increased minimum damage scaling.
    Universal Changes
    • Flight can no longer be used to cancel a team aerial exchange.


    That's all I've got.
    Steam | YouTube | PlayStation Network ID: Herple-Derples
  • hoofedkibbleshoofedkibbles Phoenix playing at it's worst. Joined: Posts: 171
    -Make an option to play Phoenix with 800k health and no Dark mechanic.
    -Vergil should get the "Phoenix treatment" in the patch. This means nerfed into the ground.
    -Something should be done to missles. Maybe they should have the same property as drones. If Doom gets tagged then they are gone.
    -Zero's hitbox should not be at your front and back at the same time.
    -NOBODY should be able to teleport behind a character in the corner.
    -Meter gain/loss TACs should be removed. It's stupid payoff for no real risk.
    -Give Thor a hammer throw projectile with the QC+Special. It can be like Cap's shield. Make either that or Mighty Strike (M) OTG in the air. (think Phoenix otg fireball or like Zero's lightning otg thing )
    -Wesker should do less damage.
  • SerrisSerris ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Joined: Posts: 367
    -Make an option to play Phoenix with 800k health and no Dark mechanic.
    -Meter gain/loss TACs should be removed. It's stupid payoff for no real risk.

    These aren't really necessary. Phoenix is still fine as-is. If you build a team around abusing the flight cancel glitch, you can use it to hoard meter just as easily as someone can use it to take it away.
    Steam | YouTube | PlayStation Network ID: Herple-Derples
  • rayplayrayplay aka solidoutlaw Joined: Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭✭
    Give Ryu back his air dash and dive kick that he had in the pre-release vanilla builds.
    PSN: rayplay
    I'm outrageous. So anti social that I make others feel like THEY'RE the outcasts, not me.
    "Fall down seven times, get up eight." - T.O.M.
  • YannickYannick #ElenaTwerkTeam Joined: Posts: 4,069 ✭✭✭✭✭
    :eek: I love coming in here to read creative ideas people have. Of course some of them are way off, but it is what it is, right?

    First off, anyone suggesting that Spencer's up grapple needs to be "fixed" is 1] salty or 2] a (ex-)Spider-Man player. I honestly hope people realize that unscaled grapples are the ONLY thing he has going for him as a character. He has no mixup. His mobility, which is commonly touted as his biggest strength, is completely one hundred percent free to grabs...a tool which, in this game, has consistently shown is more powerful than the already-present post grab scaling for combos suggests (please note I am not suggesting throws should be changed...well, maybe make them two buttons).

    Next, you guys should think deeper into why things that seem OP actually seem that way. As Ve already pointed out, taking Lightning Loops away only fix a problem for the short term; yes, while the idea of buster canceling as we know it is kinda silly (and charging through the super flash is kinda really dumb), the real problem is that he gets meter positive KOs from it because his scaling is fked. The scaling on some of these characters is a definite issue.

    Finally, while I have a whole laundry list of things that would be super sweet to implement (but won't happen), I think we should all turn this thread into a How-To-Make-Hsien-Ko-The-Best-Ever thread. So, to the guy who said that Tenrai-Ha should have a fullscreen no-damage low untechable hitbox when the press lands, I say YES. Extremely creative and has tons of applications. Imagine fullscreen XF Tenrai-Ha DHC Dark Dimension. Super sick. People have also mentioned canceling Senpu Bu, which seems natural at this point to be honest. It would be no different tactically than canceling Taskmaster's Mighty Swing (which is infinitely faster and has a powerful option select). I do not agree, however, with the dude above who says Senpu Bu should hit OTG. While many things wouldn't break Hsien-Ko, THAT property would take her right out of the park...wayyyyyyy too good, even for someone in her condition right now.

    Don't wanna rain on peoples' parades (don't even know why I'm still typing--nobody really reads these, right?), but didn't Capcom release a statement saying that the dev teams for Marvel have already scattered to the four corners of the game production world? The actual chances for ANYTHING related to this game are more or less exactly zero (pew).
  • Mr TwisterMr Twister You hate to see this kind of thing happen Joined: Posts: 1,085
    I have to say I just plain laugh at people who think Hidden Missiles should disappear when Doom is hit. Good luck covering them and making the assist remotely useful if that happens, it stays out for a really goddamned long time. Seriously. I'd rather an assist be really good over really bad. The assist would be nearly useless. Morrigan Soul Fists in Astral Vision would still be able to cover them long enough unless you had like a full-screen invincible beam Hyper or something, or used a level 3, so it wouldn't really mitigate the problem of Morridoom that everybody seems to hate so much. You'd also have to change it so the Missiles disappear when Doom is on point as well. If that didn't happen, it'd translate to me as "Stalking Flare will no longer disappear when Dormammu is hit, unless he DHCs into it.". I know this is a balance thread, but come on, the assist needs some use. Doom is out for too long for that to make any sense. Any sort of beam or attack that hits multiple targets, which translates to almost every attack in the game would stop the assist dead in it's tracks.

    You know what? Forget it, every attack turns your team into Zero/Dante/Vergil from now on. Make it happen Capcom.
    GT: Ezio Frauditore
    Tron/Frank West/Super-Skrull
  • RealpolitixRealpolitix a.k.a. Captain Rocket Joined: Posts: 505
    • Nerf the credibility of the average player when taking balance into account.
    The only thing that's low-tier is your opinion.
  • DahbombDahbomb Dark Slayer Rising Joined: Posts: 916
    Ryu had a dive kick pre-release? :o
    Primary: Vergil (Rapid Slash)/ Iron Man (Repulsor)/ Akuma (Tatsu)
    Secondary: Firebrand (Demon Missile)/ Iron Man (Repulsor)/ Akuma (Tatsu)
  • metricmetric - Joined: Posts: 1,094 ✭✭
  • Mr TwisterMr Twister You hate to see this kind of thing happen Joined: Posts: 1,085
    • Nerf the elitist attitude of "pro" players who think they know what's best for the game when they probably don't.

    Fixed. Besides, nobody has actually stated that who you refer to as average players have any credibility or any say in this supposed patch that likely will not happen. Unless you meant "sense of entitlement", in which case, learn what words mean before using them.
    GT: Ezio Frauditore
    Tron/Frank West/Super-Skrull
  • hoofedkibbleshoofedkibbles Phoenix playing at it's worst. Joined: Posts: 171
    I have to say I just plain laugh at people who think Hidden Missiles should disappear when Doom is hit. Good luck covering them and making the assist remotely useful if that happens, it stays out for a really goddamned long time. Seriously. I'd rather an assist be really good over really bad.


    The way it is now is so easy to cover Doom though. Even if you start a combo to punish both point and Doom then one of the missles comes down to ruin your day. They can make his recovery faster from the assist so long as they disappear if you hit him BEFORE he has launched the last missle. It wouldn't make it a bad assist, it would just make it so people wouldn't have Doom on auto-assist the entire match. If you catch Ammy/Strider/Sentinel (all comparable, great assist) and kill them easily due to the fact that they have lower life and their assist end when touched (if you catch strider when he first comes out) then Doom's shouldn't be THAT broken. He's got higher health and the missles somewhat cover a huge combo punish. There needs to be some sort of balance with it.
  • RealpolitixRealpolitix a.k.a. Captain Rocket Joined: Posts: 505
    Fixed. Besides, nobody has actually stated that who you refer to as average players have any credibility or any say in this supposed patch that likely will not happen. Unless you meant "sense of entitlement", in which case, learn what words mean before using them.

    There is a history of (bad) changes that have been directly influenced by the average player, with most of those changes reflecting their exaggeration.

    Also, you're either a tourney-placing player or an average one, but either way I'd much rather accept balance changes from the former if a "patch that wouldn't likely happen" happened.

    Learn what my words mean before you "fix" them.
    The only thing that's low-tier is your opinion.
  • J..J.. ~ Joined: Posts: 122
    I'll keep it simple but smart:

    1. Fix behind hitting hitboxes on moves that clearly look like it hits in one direction
    2. Scale damage significantly on combos that start from assists (this is already done with certain assists i.e Chris' gunfire)
    3. Ability to pushblock assists
    4. Air throws only performed with 6or4H.. no more 3or9H option selects
    5. More yellow health and less red health in general i.e less damage overall (but not too low)
    6. Increased time on ability to grab/air grab someone after blockstun


    Character specific:
    1. No Astral Vision meter building
    2. Nerf air command grab resets (She-hulk, Haggar, Skrull)
    3. Wesker command grab 4 frames or higher
    4.Zero..
    Raikosen nerf overall. (startup, hitbox, hitstun, etc)
    LL nerf (maybe loop limit of 2 or 3)
    No buster canceling command dashes or increase startup and/or recovery
    5. Hidden Missiles vanish if Doom gets hit it, or at the very least nerf the tracking
    6. Increase height restriction on tri-jump overheads
    7. Increase startup of Rapidslash
    8. Spencer general damage nerf or simply scale his vertical grapples (spencer player btw, so I'm not biased)
  • FuLLBLeeDFuLLBLeeD fartboner Joined: Posts: 2,129
    Give Iron Man 1 million hp and Sent 1.1 million.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I pretty much like the game the way it is other than Astral Vision being a full retard super for only burning a meter and Zero being balanced by a crack addict.

    Yeah the game's got durpy stuff and whatever but the top players especially have learned to adapt to a lot of it and seeing Fanatiq block all of that cross up shit J.Wong's Vergil was doing on reaction was inspiring to say the least. It's just a game where you have to be playing it and just have to be able to have that gut reaction to block setups when you're in those situations. Otherwise of course the first thing is to make a team that allows you to avoid setups in the first place.

    I have Skullgirls and VF5 FS if I wanna play less durpy games any way.


    Most of the stuff I wanted changed/fixed outside of XF2/3 still being a bit retarded already got fixed in Ultimate. It's actually pretty surprising how much of the stuff I was hoping Doom, Morrigan and others would get that they ended up getting (which is funny cuz they both work really well together now).




    So instead...I'm just gonna list what I predict Capcom will most likely change (more specifically nerf cuz that's all they do) regarding the cast.

    Bold = Anyone that gets discussed a lot regarding their strength that Capcom will most likely address very carefully.



    Akuma: Might possibly buff his health to 800k. Probably gonna keep him the same otherwise.

    Ammy: Eh...probably gonna stay the same minus maybe a slight damage buff. Probably the same otherwise.

    Arthur: Might actually get a dash. Probably some extra buffs to his projectiles. Probably not though.

    C.Viper: Probably have a damage scaling reduction or just overall damage nerf on some her moves. Will most likely stay the same otherwise. I'm pretty sure Capcom is certain she doesn't need any actual buffs.

    Captain America: Doubt he's getting much. He got a lot of buffs already and Capcom probably won't do too much extra to him to keep with the whole "make everybody unique" philosophy.

    Chris Redfield: Probably gonna be the same. Might even get a damage nerf just cuz Capcom nerfs.

    Chun Li: Most likely gonna stay the same. I wish they would improve her projectile game just a bit more but...they gonna do them.

    Dante: Most likely gonna stay the same. They might actually buff his damage a bit...but probably not.

    Deadpool: Same.

    Doctor Strange: Might get a forward/back air dash. Could possibly get safer frames on normals and projectiles. That's about all I would think he would get though.

    Dorm: Most likely will get nerfs to hit boxes on his normals or the damage on his supers. Probably get a nerf to the speed of f+H. Probably staying the same other than that.

    Dr.Doom: Will most likely get a Wolverine style nerf to his dive kick hit box that still won't keep it from being very durp. Might get a damage reduction.


    Hidden Missiles is too important to have in a game where if you get touched, you die or get really really fucked up. Don't expect any changes to the assist because the assist isn't relevant for at least 3 or 4 seconds any way and plenty of characters have moves that push them past the missiles. I'm pretty sure Capcom realizes Morrigan is most of the problem and will just leave the rest up to people playing smart against the assist.

    Felicia: Most likely gonna stay the same.

    Firebrand: Might get a damage buff. Otherwise will probably stay the same.

    Frank West: Same.

    Ghost Rider: Probably will get a damage buff. Might get chip damage normals as he was originally rumored to have.

    Haggar: Same.

    Hawkeye: Might get some buffed hit boxes or frames on some of his normals. Otherwise same.

    Hsien Ko: Hopefully gets a speed increase. Maybe longer duration on armor.

    Hulk: Probably the same.

    Iron Fist: Will probably get improved hit box on launcher. Will probably stay the same other than that.

    Iron Man: Maybe another buff to some of his hit boxes and maybe his dash. Might get other insignificant buffs. Very likely he won't get any changes as I'm sure Capcom probably feels we're just missing something with him. He was the most switched around character in the game pretty much. Even more so than Dante. You don't do that much changing unless you're confident in your changes.

    Jill: Possibly maybe a damage increase. Might get an extra aerial option. Otherwise same.

    MODOK: Most likely the same.

    Magneto: Might get another nerf to his gravitation special. Otherwise will probably stay the same.

    Morrigan: Most likely will have astral vision nerfed in some way. Either it won't build meter (outside of comboing into soul drain) or it will deactivate if she is hit. Or both.

    Nemesis: Probably get buffs to the frames on his normals and possibly his supers.

    Nova: Same.

    Phoenix: Same.

    Phoenix Wright: Might get damage or speed buff. Otherwise same. He was made to be gimmicky on purpose so doubt they're going to do anything much to do that.

    Rocket Raccoon: Could get a health buff. Possibly damage buff also. Other than that...same.

    Ryu: Could possibly get the ability to OTG combo off air throw somehow without using super. Probably not cuz Capcom.

    Sentinel: Could possibly see a speed or damage increase. Really doubt they'll give him more health because they are most likely still scarred from all the scrub whining early on.

    She Hulk: Possibly damage buff and fixes to her emerald cannon super. Other than that...same.

    Shuma Gorath: Maybe a speed or damage buff. Otherwise same.

    Spencer: Most like gonna have added scaling to some of his specials and nerfed damage. Speed on grapples will most likely stay the same. Same otherwise.

    Spider Man: Probably the same.

    Storm: Could use a damage buff but probably the same.

    Strider Hiryu: Possibly a health buff, Ouroboros might end up lasting a bit longer (most likely not on both though).

    Super Skrull: Same.

    Taskmaster: Same. Might get a slight health nerf. Probably not though.

    Thor: Same except maybe some from changes.

    Trish: Same.

    Tron: May get buff to her frames or hit boxes. Otherwise same.

    Vergil: Most likely nerf to frames and hit boxes. Otherwise the same.

    V.Joe: Same.

    Wesker: Will probably get nerf to a couple hit boxes. Most likely will retain shades power up.

    Wolverine: Might get change to scaling on some moves (specifically fatal claw super).

    X-23: Possibly a health or damage buff. Probably not much else.

    Zero: Nerf to damage scaling, hit boxes and MAYBE nerf to buster cancelling.




    General Stuff: XF might get another nerf, TAC's may actually be affected by scaling before you touch the ground...but don't expect any other changes.


    I have to say I just plain laugh at people who think Hidden Missiles should disappear when Doom is hit. Good luck covering them and making the assist remotely useful if that happens, it stays out for a really goddamned long time. Seriously. I'd rather an assist be really good over really bad. The assist would be nearly useless. Morrigan Soul Fists in Astral Vision would still be able to cover them long enough unless you had like a full-screen invincible beam Hyper or something, or used a level 3, so it wouldn't really mitigate the problem of Morridoom that everybody seems to hate so much. You'd also have to change it so the Missiles disappear when Doom is on point as well. If that didn't happen, it'd translate to me as "Stalking Flare will no longer disappear when Dormammu is hit, unless he DHCs into it.". I know this is a balance thread, but come on, the assist needs some use. Doom is out for too long for that to make any sense. Any sort of beam or attack that hits multiple targets, which translates to almost every attack in the game would stop the assist dead in it's tracks.

    You know what? Forget it, every attack turns your team into Zero/Dante/Vergil from now on. Make it happen Capcom.


    Yeah the assist doesn't have a relevant hit box unless you're high up in the air near Doom for at least 3 to 4 seconds. One of the best assists but overall overrated.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • mega_bustermega_buster Joined: Posts: 811 ✭✭✭
    I dont want anything to big as far as balancing but
    Zero: fix his damage scaling
    Vergil: helmbreaker should be -3 on block
    Doom: Return him to vanilla level,he is too derp...as much as I hate the missles that are hidden this game needs more good assist
    Sent: He is like a toy in this game,give him 1.1 or 1.2 million HP
    Spencer: that grapple should scale
    She-hulk return her to vanilla
    Tron; Like someone else sad give her fire assist some armor and bring her back to vanilla
    Morrigan: Should not gain meter during astral vision
    Magneto: Decrease his damage abit
    Iron-Man: bring back his vanilla dash
    Phoenix Wright: make his normals better
    Ghost rider: Normals do chip and make him faster
    Thor: Put him in umvc3 please
    Hsien-ko: Senpu-bu should be cancel able also make it so it can otg,faster start up on all her moves,make her air dash faster,give her a double jump,combo off her command grab and give it faster start up,give her a small damage buff,increase the timer on rimoukon last thing increase the start up on chretiou
    Strider: More damage and orbs should last longer
    now for gameplay,lower the damage on xfactor 2/3 slowdown TAC so its easier to counter
    Mainly plays:UMvC3,SF4AE,GG+R
    Waiting for...BBCP
  • FlyingVeFlyingVe Best Poster of All Time Joined: Posts: 12,983 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As promised, my list of changes. You'll notice most of them are fairly minor.

    System:
    -Reduce XF Speed and Damage bonuses. Make it so XF specific combo's can kill easily, but ABCS won't ToD so quickly.
    -TAC Costs one meter, there is no way to break it. Down and Side TAC's don't gain or remove meter.
    -More tech time on throws
    -Players pushed farther apart after throw tech
    -Hard Tags DO NOT hit overhead.
    -An actual proration system to replace Capcom's retarded scaling model. (under a proration system each individual move has it's own Damage Scaling and HSD values, sometimes multiple values)
    -Reduce minimum damage/scaling on Supers.
    -Cannot call assists while tech rolling


    Characters:
    Akuma:
    -Slightly increased startup on Tatsu assist
    -Can gattling into overhead

    Ammaterasu:
    -Decreased Throw Range

    Arthur:
    -Remove Hard Knockdown after Gold Armor Breaks
    -Allow him to activate Gold Armor while in Gold Armor state to replenish the time.

    C. Viper:
    -Decreased minimum scaling
    -A/B/C Burn Kicks no longer cause soft Knockdown
    -5B and B TK has a lower hitbox
    -EX Moves have their own seperate damage scaling (better than specials)
    -Inrease time before you can jump cancel a Siesmo
    -More hitstun on Siesmo

    Chris:
    -Mine Stays on ground longer

    Chun-Li:
    -Can airdash backwards
    -decrease charge time on EX BK

    Dante:
    -increased hitstun on cold shower
    -decreased hitstun on clay pigeon

    Felicia:
    -No changes

    Firebrand:
    -Decreased hitbox on Unblockable Swoop (to make air grabing or hitting him out of it easier)
    -No meter gain during luminous body

    Frank West:
    -No Changes

    Haggar:
    -6C hits overhead
    -Slower 6C startup

    Hsien-Ko:
    -Faster airdash
    -Faster tele-dash
    -non-random item throw
    -Gong actually works
    -Improved damage scaling
    -2C OTG

    Jill:
    -Double Jump
    -Air Machine Gun Projectile (low durability, recovery until landing)
    -Revert 2B nerf.

    Morrigan:
    -No meter gain during Astral Vision

    Nemesis:
    -Invul on lvl3
    -Faster 2C

    Phoenix Wright:
    -TB 2C hits low

    Ryu:
    -SRK assist has invul
    -Denjin lasts slightly longer
    -Does not gain meter during Denjin mode

    Spencer:
    -Decrease scaling on Hyper
    -Fix damage scaling on grapple

    Strider:
    -Make Uroburos only fire on an A button Press.
    -Slower teleport

    Trish:
    -More recovery on Dive Kick

    Tron:
    -Revert jC nerf
    -Revert 2C>6C nerf

    Vergil:
    -Decrease damage scaling on specials hypers
    -slower teleports
    -slower helm breaker
    -2C no longer soft knockdown.

    Viewtiful Joe:
    -Fix shocking pink assist trick

    Wesker:
    -Remove glasses buff (because it's stupid, not because its good)
    -Slower teleports

    Zero:
    -Decrease damage scaling
    -Cannot charge buster during round start or during his own hypers.
    -Lightning doesn't cross-up in the corner

    Captain America:
    -More durability on Shield Slash
    -Stars and Stripes assist has some invul

    Deadpool:
    -No changes

    Doom:
    -Increase height restriction on Airdash canceling his jS foot dive
    -Worse Hidden Missile tracking

    Dr. Strange:
    -Slower Teleport
    -Less recovery on normals
    -Faster Flight activation
    -longer flight mode

    Dormammu:
    -Remove 6C cancel
    -Slower Teleports
    -lvl3 has taller hitbox

    Ghost Rider:
    -Chain Normals Chip
    -5C doesn't wiff on some characters
    -623A doesn't wiff on some characters
    -214B is a grab
    -214C faster startup
    -4C longer hitstun

    Hawkeye:
    -Faster 623B and 623C

    Hulk:
    -Can cancel dash with specials (without having to JCC)
    -Faster Command grab startup
    -Command Grab throws the opponent vertically (ala Thor's regular throw)

    Iron Fist:
    -Double Jump
    -Stand alone 236S and 214S
    -214S air OK

    Iron Man:
    -change smart bomb input to A+S
    -All smart bombs fire the same amount of bombs as the heavy version
    -Each version of smart bombs lobs the bombs at a different angle
    -2C fires forwards
    -Faster air and ground dash (but not magneto or storm speed)
    -No ground dash startup

    Magneto:
    -Remove guard cancel glitch
    -slow down disruptor

    MODOK:
    -No changes (I honestly don't know what he needs that wouldn't be stupid, and he's already a solid character)

    Nova:
    -Projectile invul on startup of human rocket super
    -Faster startup on beam super
    -Rapid fire 2A

    Phoenix:
    -Slower teleports

    Rocket Raccoon:
    -Increased hitstun on all normals
    -Bigger 2A hitbox
    -Bigger hitbox on mad hopper
    -Rocket Skates travels a shorter distance
    -Rocket skates recovers faster

    Sentinel:
    -1 million HP

    She-Hulk:
    -Rapid fire 2A
    -Longer Slide
    -Faster lights out

    Shum Gorath:
    -slightly better mystic smash hitbox
    -Fix supers

    Spiderman:
    -No changes

    Storm:
    -No changes

    Skrull:
    -Slower Meteor Smash

    Task Master:
    -Smaller Shield Skill Hitbox

    Thor:
    -Revert jC nerf

    Wolverine:
    -Slower Berserker Slash
    -Fix Fatal Claw scaling

    X-23:
    -Talon attack L faster startup
    -Talon attack L hard Knockdown
    UMvC3: Viper/Dante/Strider, Jill/Dante/Wesker, Nova/Spencer/Sentinel
    Killer Instinct: Thunder, Spinal, Jago
    SF4: Hugo, Abel, Oni, Yang
    SF3:Yang
  • AceKillahAceKillah EXS of Greed Joined: Posts: 15,378 ✭✭✭✭
    Individual character changes this far in the games life are completely unnecessary.

    Only three system changes I REEEEEEALLLLY want.

    -Fix the fucking Magic Pixel. They basically lied and somehow made it even worse in this game.
    -Fix hitboxes on basically everything. As Nobus would say they are "pants on head" retarded and that is not an exaggeration.
    -Cannot call assist while tech rolling. Getting a mix-up after you got knocked down just because you have a assist with broke priority is stupid. (Looks at Tatsu and Shopping Cart)

    I can live with all the other stupid shit in this game for the most part.

    edited.
    My whole life they said I was a cheat code, 
    Cause yo chance of playing on my level <0
  • Nitro NoodlezNitro Noodlez ヽ(*゚д゚)ノ Joined: Posts: 5,878
    If a system change occurs the first thing I want gone is assists still coming out attacking when the point character is hit and the point character slowing down when their assist is hit. This shit is the thing I have the biggest problem with in this game.
    Individual character changes this far in the games life are completely unnecessary.
    Wow, for once I agree with you despite all the shit characters like Zero have...
  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,206 ✭✭
    Change Nothing.

    Please.

    The game is evolving in some interesting ways and if ECT4 showed us anything, it showed us that UMvC3 is the HYPEST game out there right now. No need to fuck with that.

    If something Must be changed, make Iron Man good. Tony deserves better than that. But even then I'd rather have them change nothing if making him better means fucking with the whole game.
    Monster Hunter
  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,206 ✭✭
    Sorry for the double but

    HOGOSHA made a fucking beautiful post the other day and here is a snip:



    "All that said...the entire Marvel series is made of stupid bullshit. Storm made a billion characters straight up unpickable in MVC2. You wanna play Wolverine in MVC2? Tough, your opponent controls the weather. How about Ruby Heart? Have fun never hitting the opponent because she's HAAAH HAAAH HAAAAH-ing 89 feet above your dome. The only thing that makes UMVC3 different from any other Marvel game is the fact that every character, upon hitting the opponent, can either 0 to death a character or hit 4 buttons and 0 to death a character. In a 2 out of 3 setting revolving around a team-based game, this can help people occasionally get away with things that they can't get away with in other games. And now we see even THAT slowly disappearing because Chris G is forcing people to think before they put a team together.

    How fucking DARE he."

    ChrisG comment aside (which I 100% agree with) Hogosha is right on the money.

    People are seriously complaining about MARVEL? It's supposed to be broken and stupid. I thought that's what everyone loved about it... Or were most of you melon farmers just lying?

    Change nothing.
    Monster Hunter
  • YawDanYawDan Joined: Posts: 539 ✭✭
    Most of balance wishes are regarding characters I've used. I don't agree with nerfing characters to substitute me becoming a better player i.e. learning match-ups or how to block, but I feel there are some things in the game that are unprecedented, or weren't thought through properly.

    Doctor Strange: Let Doctor Strange's crouching Light be a low attack, especially since his standing Light hits misses some of the cast.

    Make his Spell of Vishanti safer- on hit. Why does the opponent recover before he does after his airborne version?

    He should be able to block after air versions of Daggers of Denak.

    Let his medium teleport cross-up opponents in the corner. Don't tell me he's a master of the mystic arts, yet couldn't figure out how to go behind an oppoent in the corner.

    Improve his wavedash.

    Strider: Improve the hitstun on Strider's hard Vajra, so that he can confirm off it properly.
    Possibly adjust his Mission 10 combo. It's kind of a punishment; having the execution to perform it but being restricted by the number of hits preceding the wall cling.

    Ghost Rider: Improve the recovery on some of his moves. I understand why he has poor start up on his normals due to the range of some of his attacks, but he is extremely punishable on most of his attacks.

    Magneto: Improve the recovery on his Magnetic Shockwave.

    Tron: Decrease the pushback on her air H.

    She-Hulk: Reinstate her slide. Why give characters who can zone such as Hawkeye and Deadpool, the ability to cover ground or get in on opponents, while make it harder for characters who can't play keepaway to get in?

    Captain America: Make the charging stars cancellable during earlier parts of their animations.

    IMPROVE THE NETCODE: I'm cool with some of the online only tactics. But how does Taskmaster whiff a charging star then throw me afterwards? That one was new.

    Nerf's

    Wesker: Remove glasses buff. Seriously, how can you reward a character for being hit?

    Morrigan: Unable to build meter during Astral Vision. In retrospect, was it an oversight of the developers, considering what Chris G's doing with it now?

    Zero: The lightening from the Raikousen should only go as far as Zero does, before he cancels it i.e. if you immediately cancel the medium Raikousen into the buster the lightening shouldn't be fullscreen while Zero remains in his original position.

    Vergil: Spiral Swords should cause absolute guard, considering we start the game with a meter. He gets an inescapable unblockable with these if he calls an overhead assist. Shoutout to Intuitive 2011.


    Shouldn't Be Changed

    I don't think hidden missiles should disappear if Doctor Doom is hit. You can block as normal while these hit you, and the stun it creates is not as bad as or the Weasel Shot and Cold Star (I faced Zak Bennett; I know what I'm talking about). And not only can he be hit during their call, the sooner you do so the fewer come out.

    I don't think people should be asking for the lightening loops to be nerfed. Considering that the execution required to pull them off is greater that you holding back in the first place. He requires a lot of practice to use. If you're using players who require less work but have a high reward i.e. WESKER, don't be asking for other characters to be nerfed.
    If you use both Zero AND Wesker, maintain your neutrality lol.

    Personal wishlist
    Give Captain America his shield slash loops back!

    (will edit any errors in grammar)
    "This was not srk. It should not be lower than gfaqs in terms of fighting game talk, but it is. That's all because of the outbreak of girly men, which is really the fault of atheism." Cisco, UMVC3 tierlist discussion, pg 333.
  • GraphfGraphf Amat Victoria Curam Joined: Posts: 1,206 ✭✭
    Morrigan should gain double the meter while in Astral Vision. The meter she normally gains plus the meter that her mirror gains.

    I seriously hope that no one fucking listens to you people. You fucking guys complain like little babies.


    http://insomnia.ac/commentary/the_myth_of_independence/ :

    "Whining is never a good idea; it comes from weakness (which is why babies, and especially human babies, are such experts on it).... The moment you begin whining you've already lost the game —.... In short, only the failures whine..."
    Monster Hunter
  • Nitro NoodlezNitro Noodlez ヽ(*゚д゚)ノ Joined: Posts: 5,878
    Morrigan gaining double the meter in Astral Vision would be absurd. She already built more meter in vanilla; which was a shit ton thanks to how long AV combos could go on for and vanilla's absurd meter gain. There's no reason for her to gain more than she already does.

    I don't think they should remove the meter gain from Astral Vision seeing as how it behaves like the other "pure" install hypers like it(aside from Firebrand's who just breaks the norm) and it kinda fits Morrigan's design as a character that's supposed to build meter as fast as she can eat it. I can see why they would take meter gain away though considering how powerful a super it is. I wouldn't mind them reducing meter gain on it though. I would rather take no meter gain on it rather than it going away on hit though.
  • Mr TwisterMr Twister You hate to see this kind of thing happen Joined: Posts: 1,085
    I'm honestly surprised that I forgot to mention buffing Tron. j.:h: knockback reduction would be beautiful, it seems Bonne Strike M upon landing is the only way to convert off of it now, and that kind of scales your combo fairly badly. I didn't play Tron in Vanilla so I can't pass judgement on how good she was or how stupid broken GF assist was, but give her something useful as an assist would be nice. Also, greatly improve the durability of Servbot Takeout's initial shot, there's no reason that should get beat out by a goddamned Hadoken. Speaking of Servbot Takeout, make it come out when hitting an assist. It's horribly unsafe when it whiffs or is blocked, and it's stupid that they would make it possible to use an assist to take a single very low damage hit and ruin the whole combo and lead to death for Tron. Also, give her H attacks a hit of armor, and make Bonne Strike projectile nullifying.

    Or just nerf her even harder :(
    GT: Ezio Frauditore
    Tron/Frank West/Super-Skrull
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Morrigan gaining double the meter in Astral Vision would be absurd. She already built more meter in vanilla; which was a shit ton thanks to how long AV combos could go on for and vanilla's absurd meter gain. There's no reason for her to gain more than she already does.

    I don't think they should remove the meter gain from Astral Vision seeing as how it behaves like the other "pure" install hypers like it(aside from Firebrand's who just breaks the norm) and it kinda fits Morrigan's design as a character that's supposed to build meter as fast as she can eat it. I can see why they would take meter gain away though considering how powerful a super it is. I wouldn't mind them reducing meter gain on it though. I would rather take no meter gain on it rather than it going away on hit though.

    I wouldn't worry about that troll post crap about her gaining double meter. It's just typical "Marvel should be broken stuff". Marvel is oppressive...not broken. Broken means there's no way to play the game in a way where people can think about what they are doing and that's just not true.




    From there something has to be done about astral vison though. There's a lot of tech that will eventually brew from it that will shut down a lot of the cast and it's tech that doesn't even involve missiles. Missiles helps for space control but it's only a matter of time before people see the powerful shit that super can do without missiles that will still nullify a lot of teams. Morrigan + Missiles is only the start really.

    The problem with building meter as fast as you eat it is that with a character like Morrigan she won't really need to eat very much and her upcoming tech once figured out for tournament play will allow her to essentially build the meter faster than she eats it.




    People think nerfing missiles will solve shit and it will only solve one aspect of Morrigan's astral vision while just setting up people to make the other powerful tech practical instead. Then also bringing the game back to where everyone is forced to pick teams that can't protect themselves from rushdown situations and just a lot of "first to touch" kinda matches. Plus nerfing an assist that covers the aerial which is hugely important in this version of the game.

    The UMVC3 scene will be in for quite the reckoning when they realize that Morrigan + Missiles is only one of the great astral vision setups. It's a whole Ginyu Force of team tech that will eventually rise and piss everyone off the same or more.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • The DukeThe Duke Joined: Posts: 14,291 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • BonuspokusBonuspokus My head's on fire Joined: Posts: 315
    Dorm: Most likely will get nerfs to hit boxes on his normals or the damage on his supers. Probably get a nerf to the speed of f+H. Probably staying the same other than that.

    Dr.Doom: Will most likely get a Wolverine style nerf to his dive kick hit box that still won't keep it from being very durp. Might get a damage reduction.


    Hidden Missiles is too important to have in a game where if you get touched, you die or get really really fucked up. Don't expect any changes to the assist because the assist isn't relevant for at least 3 or 4 seconds any way and plenty of characters have moves that push them past the missiles. I'm pretty sure Capcom realizes Morrigan is most of the problem and will just leave the rest up to people playing smart against the assist.

    Yeah the assist doesn't have a relevant hit box unless you're high up in the air near Doom for at least 3 to 4 seconds. One of the best assists but overall overrated.

    Seriously dude, I know how much I love the Dread Lord and while I can see a slight nerf to his hypers, how is nerfing his hitboxes even an option? He hits right where the move seems to be hitting... yeah, his moves cross up BUT THAT'S EXACTLY the way they look, Helm Breaker hits where it shouldn't hit, that's something that needs to be fixed. Dorm needs those hitboxes to be able to open the enemy and have a good pressure game.

    Dorm is fine and if anything gets nerfed, it should be the damage from Chaotic Flame, that's it.

    Also, have you seen Doom's divekick on the PS Vita? The hitbox is fine, the problem is that people don't block against Doom... seriously, stop dashing and stop using mediocre anti-airs whenever Doom is above you, just block.

    However Doom's missiles should disappear whenever he gets hit, that already happens with characters like Nova, Dorm (flame carpet),Sentinel (drones), Trish, Rocket Raccoon (traps) etc. It should be the same for Doom, the assist is broken as fuck, the missiles stay on the screen for far too long and can be easily spammed and it's almost impossible to score a good punish without getting hit with them.

    They have the following properties:
    OTG
    GTFO
    Lockdown
    Air control
    Combo extenders
    Chip Damage

    Seriously? One single assist offers all that bullshit?? And you believe it's fine the way it is?
    The only way to punish that level of BS and make it 100% safe is to burn meter and get a full screen hyper. That's ridiculous.

    I LOL'd when somebody said that the assist would be destroyed if the missiles disappear, how about using the assist with a teleport or a side change? That is legit, otherwise, IT'S BULLSHIT.

    Anyway, Doom has other awesome assist options, the problem is that Missiles is as braindead as possible.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My opinions on the possible changes are just based on what I feel Capcom might do. They'll do anything to nerf a character and changing hit boxes isn't off the table. Probably won't happen but I can see it being possible.

    See you can list all of this stuff about missiles...the issue is that the assist still is balanced by having an extremely long start up before it becomes relevant in the neutral. During that time it can get blown up by a lot of stuff and there's a lot of characters that can blow up both the point character and the assist doing their basic run of the mill stuff. People will just need to create better start of round strats to deal with missiles.

    It only gets close to overpowered with Morrigan ATM from what I've seen. A lot of other teams have to have Doom as anchor where he's a subpar anchor at best to get a similar type of power.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • ThatJollyOlBastidThatJollyOlBastid Non-stop Climax! Joined: Posts: 19,408 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The UMVC3 scene will be in for quite the reckoning when they realize that Morrigan + Missiles is only one of the great astral vision setups. It's a whole Ginyu Force of team tech that will eventually rise and piss everyone off the same or more.
    Can't wait for some Zero/Morr/Doom or Dorm/Morri/Doom shit to go down.
    "Seth is like McDonald's. You can learn to make the same burger in 2 days as the person who's worked there for 5 years" ~ Dogura
  • Nitro NoodlezNitro Noodlez ヽ(*゚д゚)ノ Joined: Posts: 5,878
    DJ making Morrigan out to become like a new age Strider/Doom or something. I can't say that I don't like the sound of that though.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can't wait for some Zero/Morr/Doom or Dorm/Morri/Doom shit to go down.

    Yeah and that's only the beginning. There's a lot of crazy good shit that won't even have Doom on the team. Morrigan is the right type of character to control a lot of screen space and has solid defensive options without the use of missiles. She can carry herself without the assist very easily which will eventually lead to the rise of other oppressive Morrigan teams that will have the ability to kill you probably faster than Morrigan + Missiles does.

    The slow death of Morrigan + Missiles is only one of the oppressive ways to kill people off with astral vision.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • BonuspokusBonuspokus My head's on fire Joined: Posts: 315
    It only gets close to overpowered with Morrigan ATM from what I've seen. A lot of other teams have to have Doom as anchor where he's a subpar anchor at best to get a similar type of power.

    It isn't the character using the assist but the assist itself.

    Yeah morrigan is fucked up, but Doom as an assist is fucked up as well. Just sayin... not a single assist has that many advantages in the entire game.
  • cheese and chipscheese and chips Metal Blade> everything Joined: Posts: 203
    Firebrand
    Give Firebrand more health, I swear he dies like in one combo
    Vergil
    remove the crumple from his lv 3 hyper
    Wesker
    If your going to make him do 700k when he is in lv 4 x factor then lower his health to around strider's at least
    Arthur
    give him a dash
    Dormammu
    make it so that his stalking flare can't be used as a "chip-to win" move

    that's pretty much it.
    Gamertag: Shadow man mm3 UMVC3: Frank/hawkeye/Doom

    king cobra and zubaz for v 2013
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It isn't the character using the assist but the assist itself.

    Yeah morrigan is fucked up, but Doom as an assist is fucked up as well. Just sayin... not a single assist has that many advantages in the entire game.

    Yeah true...but it's still balanced by having big flaws that must be compensated for by the point character that can be easily exploited by a lot of relevant teams. If the missiles fired at you immediately on start up instead of flying towards the air...then yeah it would be much more of a problem. Overall it is balanced by needing to be covered by other hit boxes from the point character for a solid period of time for a fighting game.

    There's too many teams that people are coming up with that are already dampening the missiles assist EVEN on Morrigan teams. ECT was pretty much ripe with anti missiles teams among the WC players. This is considering it's already been proven that you don't really need an anti missiles team just to fight the assist. Just somebody that can put pressure on the assist constantly from the start of the round.



    It still has that pretty crippling weakness that most other power assists don't have which is just having absurdly long start up to affect anything towards the ground or far and away in the air.


    Morrigan herself isn't really that fucked up. It's just the super that has really fucked up properties. Considerably more so than missiles assist.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • Din0Din0 Retired Joined: Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭
    ITT: People who think Capcom makes sensible nerfs.
    Magneto/Doom/Dante | Magneto/Doom/Phoenix | Dante/Vergil/Magneto
    PSN: davidyes
  • DahbombDahbomb Dark Slayer Rising Joined: Posts: 916
    Magneto: Improve the recovery on his Magnetic Shockwave.
    This was funny to read given how Thor's Shockwave is like 10 times more unsafe than Magneto's yet no mention was given to him.

    Changes I would like to see in the game:

    GENERAL

    *Pushback increased after teching throws both in the air and on the ground
    *Assist is not active once the player actually gets hit
    *TAC changes. I would really love it if they make the TAC guaranteed but cost 1 meter and not remove/take meter away. But it's not going to happen.
    *Nerf X factor even more so that current XFLVL2 values are new XFLVL3 values in terms of time, speed and damage
    *Point character shouldn't go into hit stop animation if the assist character is getting hit
    *No moving around before start of the game and no charging moves either
    *Mashable hypers changed on a character to character basis so that values are more in line with Vanilla max damage values. Like for example, Storm's hypers should still do about the same damage because she needs that damage but not someone like Dormammu or Wolverine who are already doing a ton of damage but then get even more damage because their hypers do a ton of damage when mashed
    *Cannot call assists while tech rolling
    *Raw tags don't hit overhead and have slightly more recovery
    *You shouldn't be able to juggle assists by mashing on down + S bounce TAC
    *No character should be able to teleport cross up in the corner

    CHARACTER SPECIFIC (only going to list characters who need changes)

    Arthur:
    *If the Gold armor breaks he goes into soft knockdown instead of hard knockdown
    *Gold armor can be replenished by going into Gold armor again
    *An actual ground dash
    *Improve start up and recovery on some of his projectile moves

    C. Viper:
    *Decreased minimum scaling on both normals and special attacks
    *EX Seismo nerfed in invincibility and hit box size
    *Increase the time before you can jump cancel a Siesmo

    Chris:
    *I would like to see a zoning option added to cover his blind spot

    Chun-Li:
    *Air dash increased in range and is now able to do a double dash which used up an air action. Can dash back as well
    *Increased minimal special and normal damage scaling
    *Normals that look like they hit low should actually hit low
    *New move added Hazanshu that can be used in the air and causes a ground bounce on hit
    *Fireball increased in durability

    Dante:
    *Grapple should no longer cause a tech in a single direction

    Doom:
    *Hidden Missiles nerfed
    *Hit box of Foot Dive nerfed, shouldn't have a hit box up to his neck

    Felicia:
    *Crossover counter for Rolling Buckler buffed to what it was in Vanilla
    *Fixes opponent popping out of hyper when near the corner
    *Kitty Helper does not interrupt own combos on hit

    Firebrand:
    *Unblockable swoop needs some changes to avoid guaranteed set ups especially against characters who are in the air as they can't even CC out
    *LVL3 buffed, it's completely ass right now

    Haggar:
    *Gains new command roll or dash that allows him to by pass projectiles. Has some recovery to it like the Captain America Back flip.

    Hsien-Ko:
    *Too many to list, the character needs a full overhaul.

    Morrigan:
    -Cannot exploit flight cancel to perform a guaranteed TAC

    Nemesis:
    *Start up invincibility on LVL3 command grab, cause a ground bounce or stagger after connect for a combo
    *Armor moves need to start up faster including on the assist
    *Punching hyper needs completely start up invincibility and full hyper armor

    Phoenix Wright:
    *Too many to list, character needs an overhaul especially in the evidence acquiring mechanic

    Ryu:
    *Powerup Hyper lasts much longer
    *Explosive fireball charges up faster
    *Multi-Fireballs negate advance guard until the last one
    *Gains single direction air dash

    Spencer:
    *UWG should scale properly

    Vergil:
    *Decreased max damage scaling on Spiral Swords
    *Decreased durability on Spiral Swords
    *Remove cross up from Dimension Slash hyper
    *Reduce posterior hit box of Helm Breaker
    *Remove Round Trip charge glitch
    *Lunar Phase damage at max damage scaling reduced
    *Cr.H should not cause untechable soft knockdown

    Viewtiful Joe:
    -Shocking Pink glitch removed
    *RHK OTGs but very little hit stun after max scaling

    Wesker:
    *Glasses buff should be removed completely
    *Rhino Charge invincibility buffed to Vanilla status but scaling is the same as Ultimate
    *Normal counters buffed to have more active frames. Projectile counter has more range
    *Remove cross up Phantom Dance hyper
    *20K damage reduction on Lost in Nightmares LVL3

    Captain America:
    *More durability on Shield Slash


    Dr. Strange:
    *Mystic Sword L has a better hit box underneath the swords so it doesn't whiff against crouching characters
    *Less recovery on normals
    *Faster Flight activation
    *Cr.L actually hits low
    *Better recovery on SoV so that he doesn't get comboed in the air near a corner even after landing the hit

    Deadpool

    *LVL3 buffed, because it's ass right now


    Dormammu:
    *3C0D can hit opponents OTG
    *Reduce damage scaling on normals
    *Some of his normals could be shaven slightly in terms of their posterior hit boxes

    Ghost Rider:
    *Some of the chain normals do block damage
    *Chain of Rebuttal has a better hit box below it
    *QCB + M is an actual command grab like Super Skrull
    *Heartless Spire is special cancellable and the hit box improved so it covers the fire properly
    *Yoga Flames can be charged to produce a traveling fireball that has good durability. Yoga Flame that aims downwards creates a fire puddle
    *Yoga Flames and charged variations can be used in the air
    *New Eat Chain variant that covers an aerial angle

    Hulk:
    *Faster Command grab startup
    *Less recovery after ground throw, enough for at least a Gamma Tsunami hyper
    *Throw of command grabs changed back to Vanilla status

    Iron Fist:
    *Double Jump
    *Can do Rising Fang and Shoulder Tackle without being the 3rd Rekkas. Rising Fang can be done in the air.
    *Crescent Heel has faster start up allowing for easier pick ups from air throws
    *Cr.L actually hits low
    *Chi's buffed all around. Meter Gain Chi allows him to gain meter on whiffed Rekkas. Blue Chi gives his Rekkas 1 hit of armor. Red Chi increase the block damage from Rekkas
    *Needs a dive kick

    Iron Man:
    *Air dash down/forward has much faster start up
    *Aerial Smart Bombs have different trajectories depending upon the button pressed. All have the same damage.
    *Smart Bombs have Vanilla status hit stun initially but have Ultimate hit stun at max hit stun scaling
    *A proper ground dash/wave dash
    *Return of his Knee Dive move mapped to j d+M
    *Proton Cannon has less recovery and can be aimed upward removing the DP Proton Cannon
    *Gains Warmachine's Missiles hyper on his DP from MVC1. Can be comboed off of Repulsor Blast and does a ton of damage. Is safe because the missiles come down even if Iron Man is hit.

    Magneto:
    *Remove Repulsion guard cancel trick
    *Assist version of Disruptor has same frames as on point version
    *Reduce the hitbox on j.L so that he doesn't cross up with that normal while tri-dashing in

    Nova:
    *Speeding Tackle hyper should be invincible on start up and retain projectile invulnerability throughout the yper
    *Cr.L actually hits low

    Rocket Raccoon:
    *Increased hitstun on all normals
    *Rocket skates recovers faster

    Sentinel:
    *Some of his normals sped up both in the air and on the ground
    *Can refly without taking up air actions and can do it as long as he has frames left on his flight time
    *Health buff to at least a million

    She-Hulk:
    *Some of the nerfs she got should be reverted or met half way like her slide, cr.L, Emerald Cannon, runner stance not calling assists, pushback after OTG, weight change

    Shum Gorath:
    *Needs considerable buffs

    Storm:
    *Lightning Storm hyper causes untechable knockdown if DHC'd out before the last hit
    *Start ups on Typhoon, Fair/Foul Winds and Whirlwind reduced both on the point and assist version
    *Lightning Sphere when charged turns into a slower moving but bigger much more durable projectile

    Skrull:
    *Needs more directions on his air dash
    *His QCF hyper should be more aimable and can be aimed away to make it safe

    Thor:
    *Improve start up on ground normals especially the jabs
    *Reduce the recovery after Mighty Thunder by a lot and increased push back

    Tron:
    *Needs a lot of buffs

    Wolverine:
    *Either remove Fatal Claw loop or reduce the damage scaling on Fatal Claw

    X-23:
    *Air Talon L attack causes a ground bounce when used in the air

    Zero:
    *Decrease damage scaling on both normals and specials
    *Lightning doesn't cross-up in the corner
    *Lightning disappears after cancelled with Buster
    *Posterior hit boxes on some of the sword normals reduced along with some of their active frames
    Primary: Vergil (Rapid Slash)/ Iron Man (Repulsor)/ Akuma (Tatsu)
    Secondary: Firebrand (Demon Missile)/ Iron Man (Repulsor)/ Akuma (Tatsu)
  • Nitro NoodlezNitro Noodlez ヽ(*゚д゚)ノ Joined: Posts: 5,878
    Nice list, and I can agree with most of those changes, but one I absolutely cannot get behind is not allowing characters to move at the beginning of the round. Any particular reasoning for that?
  • ShieldSkillsShieldSkills Joined: Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭
    LOL @ Missiles disappearing when doom gets hit, it'd instantly be one of the most useless assists in the game.
    Akuma/Arthur/Hawkeye.
  • Noble CactusNoble Cactus In name only. Joined: Posts: 8,452
    I would leave the game as it is, for the most part. I feel like it's starting its genesis. It's just now taking off the ground, people are getting serious, the best players are settling into what they think the best teams and strategies are, they're adjusting to the game's questionable mechanics and are learning hwo to manipulate them, and they're ready for the journey. If there is one.

    Marvel 2 evolved organically. Perhaps Marvel 3 should be left to do the same. Granted, it's not as free-form and open to evolution as Marvel 2 (from what I take of it), so we should just enjoy it for what it is, if we're going to enjoy anything at all.





    Ah, fuck it. Who am I kidding.
    Spoiler:

    In all seriousness, I do believe in what I said, though. Maybe it's off; I would like to know if anyone disagrees and why. I have no authority whatsoever and will stop there, though, because any more would descend into the bourgeois "I know what's best" syndrome whose name I'm blanking on right now that pervades this site and video game communities in general.
    "No tree, it is said, can grow to heaven unless its roots reach down to hell."
    - Jung
  • DahbombDahbomb Dark Slayer Rising Joined: Posts: 916
    Nice list, and I can agree with most of those changes, but one I absolutely cannot get behind is not allowing characters to move at the beginning of the round. Any particular reasoning for that?
    I think a few more people mentioned this change already. The main reason is that most people just walk up against each other and mash throws. Along with the walk speed of some of the characters, it gives some characters way too huge of an edge at the start of the round. Wolverine instantly comes to mind, coupling his walk speed, his insane up close normals, OS Dive kick and ground throw leading into an XF kill combo makes it way too easy to run a train on the opponent starting at 0 second. This is also compounded by the fact that even if you tech you are still within grab or jab range which makes it a dice roll game at the start. You can go back and watch the GFs of CEO with Justin Wong and Tokido, that basically highlights all the things wrong with walking before start of the round.

    I forgot to add to that list that Nova's red health mechanic should be fixed so that it only takes as much red health as it's needed to power up the move to max.
    Primary: Vergil (Rapid Slash)/ Iron Man (Repulsor)/ Akuma (Tatsu)
    Secondary: Firebrand (Demon Missile)/ Iron Man (Repulsor)/ Akuma (Tatsu)
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Considering Marvel 2 had one frame c.L's I don't really see it being totally necessary to remove the start of round aspect of the game. There's a lot of spacing mind games that are involved at that start of round event and it's interesting to see how people change it up from round to round. You see Marlin Pie doing all kinds of different jumps and double jumps with Viper to get positional advantage at start of round.
    I would leave the game as it is, for the most part. I feel like it's starting its genesis. It's just now taking off the ground, people are getting serious, the best players are settling into what they think the best teams and strategies are, they're adjusting to the game's questionable mechanics and are learning hwo to manipulate them, and they're ready for the journey. If there is one.

    Marvel 2 evolved organically. Perhaps Marvel 3 should be left to do the same. Granted, it's not as free-form and open to evolution as Marvel 2 (from what I take of it), so we should just enjoy it for what it is, if we're going to enjoy anything at all.





    Ah, fuck it. Who am I kidding.


    In all seriousness, I do believe in what I said, though. Maybe it's off; I would like to know if anyone disagrees and why. I have no authority whatsoever and will stop there, though, because any more would descend into the bourgeois "I know what's best" syndrome whose name I'm blanking on right now that pervades this site and video game communities in general.

    I mostly share your sentiment. Everyone knows that the game has a lot of crazy stuff, but people have settled down with the fact that Marvel just throws a lot of powerful fast shit at your regardless of characters used. People are starting to suck it up and find answers to shit rather than blame Sentinel, Wesker, Phoenix, Morrigan etc. everytime they lose.

    It's to the point where people are finally using the game to fight the game like what should have been happening for the past year. Plus the 3 out of 5 format helps to give people time and opportunity to use more than one team as may very well need to be an option in the future against some players. ECT last weekend paved the way for the insight of competitive Marvel that is to be had in the future where there's an actual grind to beat the opponent. You saw people adjust round to round and sometimes people would lose 2 and come back 3.

    It's what I've wanted the game to be for a long time and after a WHOLE YEAR of waiting and hoping it's finally coming into fruition. The game's "cheap" or "oppressive" nature actually allows for most of the cast to be very viable and it's amazing to see stuff like She Hulk in top 8 in ULTIMATE. Not Vanilla....UMVC3. LOL.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • AceKillahAceKillah EXS of Greed Joined: Posts: 15,378 ✭✭✭✭
    As long as they add more pushback after you tech a throw, the start of the round stuff would be fine imo. I think it would also make sense if both characters couldn't move until they hit the ground if they tech an air-throw.
    My whole life they said I was a cheat code, 
    Cause yo chance of playing on my level <0
  • Nitro NoodlezNitro Noodlez ヽ(*゚д゚)ノ Joined: Posts: 5,878
    Yeah, more pushback on throw techs would still keep the mindgames at the start of the game marvel has always been known for while preventing this shit.

  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, more pushback on throw techs would still keep the mindgames at the start of the game marvel has always been known for while preventing this shit.

    snip

    Well no good player is actually going to do that. You can just chicken block after the first tech to neutralize the situation. If you know they're going to mash on f+H some more you won't have to worry about the low hit jump trap any way.

    It is something that should get fixed, but there's already ways around the problem with simple techniques.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • kileakkileak Joined: Posts: 6
    Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2
  • crimsonspider89crimsonspider89 Scarlet for DLC Joined: Posts: 2,984
    The intelligent posts above reflect my sentiment. Also I LOL at removing a crucial aspect of Dorm's gameplan someone mentioned by nerfing Stalker Flare.

    Also:

    She Hulk's lampost negates projectiles like Dorm's normals do
    Gets a two way airdash
    Emerald Cannon forces a wallbounce


    X-23 Can MFC ankle slicer(to allow her to combo off of her OTG)

    This will allow her to combo off of her OTG which will open up team options for her. Also makes her MF combos more reliable.
    Zero is now Ichigo. Deal.
    Tools will support tools. Let it be spread.
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