UMVC3 Patch/Balance Discussion *NO PATCH...but word is out of possible ALL CAPCOM VS game coming*

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  • D4GamersD4Gamers Just Like Cap! Joined: Posts: 268
    I think all my points have addressed the fact that they're flawed (and pretty detailed). But stating something is wrong doesn't mean you know the solution.

    Many of these suggestions fully disregard the intent of TACs. Capcom never intended for combos to pan out as they did. The amount of 1-2 meter TODs and exploits we've figured out has easily surpassed the original design of the game. TAC's were originally a method to extend combos at a risk to the opponent breaking out when damage was not so easy to obtain. They were assuming a 600k combo might turn into a 700k if you did an up TAC or you would down TAC in hopes to get enough meter to DHC. There fix in UMvC was to create a mind game of gain/steal/damage. But the 2 of those options became irrelevant with the extensions we found, you get the damage and meter no matter what TAC you pick...that's the problem. No mind game and too much reward.

    So yes TAC's do suck and do need to be fixed. But none of these suggestions fix it, they're knee jerk reactions in spite of the benefit of doing TACs. The fix needs to respect the intent of TACs as a risk/reward option that defines a clear mind game that the defender can make intelligent decisions to bar a worst case option or attempt a read, and for the attack the TACs benefit must be more limited since the safe TAG and immediate bonus of meter gain/steal is already a fair trade off for less damage.

    I understand where you're coming from, I've read all your posts. What you still fail to explain is how opting to end your combo with a TAC, a game of chance, a guess that if completed will give you a high reward. Compared to the opponent guessing CORRECTLY on you're initiated attempt at a gamble, and getting the same reward?

    You don't go to a Casino and gamble when you only have $100 left to your name.

    The way I see it, I'm not saying this is the BEST idea to fix our issue but it's not a bad one, personally I'm really liking Duck's idea a lot more as I think about it.
    Make TAC's unbreakable and cost a bar. Remove the hit stun freeze/reset.

    Fixed
    -Vanilla MvC3: Main:Zero/ Viper/ Taskmaster I Alt: Skrull/ Wesker/ Sentinel
    -Ultimate MvC3:Main: Spencer/ Hulk/ Doom I Alt: Doom/ Akuma/ Strider
    - Currently learning: Ironfist, Dante, Frank West

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  • M.D.M.D. digs older chicks Joined: Posts: 4,183 ✭✭✭
    TACs are completely fixable. But the fix is in the reward of the attacking player. That's what needs adjusting.

    Why? If the attacking player wants no risk and all the reward of scoring a hit, then they'll go for the guaranteed combo and not use TAC. Most of the stuff TAC is designed to do can be done without it. You can safe tag with Alpha Counter, DHC, or some other setup. You already gain meter during a combo. You certainly don't need it to ToD. If you're gonna steal meter, that should come at a risk. The attacking player already has the advantage during a TAC. There's a 2 in 3 chance they'll succeed where's a disadvantaged player has a 1 in 3 chance, assuming they're even looking for a TAC to begin with. If that's not good enough odds, there's always Morrigan and her Soul Drain.

    Also, Up TAC is not irrelevant. Some characters need a wall and/or ground bounce to optimized their combo. Up is the only direction that doesn't use one or the other.

    I get it, you'd rather nerf TACs to the ground than to make them a gamble. Fine, but don't say it's bad game design to have it the other way just cause you don't agree with it.
    "I'm deeeeeaaaadd!" - Williams
    UMVC3: Shehulk/Haggar/Thor
    SSF4: Seth, Gen, Zangief
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  • ifbpwnstarifbpwnstar Captain 'Murica Walking Wiki Joined: Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭
    The point everyone is missing is the high Reward we are getting from TACs is not the intention of TACs. The fact TAC's basically work as a 66% reset is an oversight.

    TAC's in vanilla were meant as combo extensions back in a time where 600k was optimal and TAC's didn't add 500k+ to that. In UMvC the reward was shifted to the situational benefits with meter hoping that TACs would base around that. TACs were not intended to have this high of a reward so you have to factor that in. TACs need LESS reward, and more DEFINED options. Everyone here is saying giving a huge free combo to a lucky guess fixes the problem. It doesn't, it just means that the game devolves into guessing for both parties. TACs should be intelligent decisions of risk/reward not gambling on both sides.

    WHEN YOU BALANCE TAC REWARD, GETTING OUT OF THE COMBO IS IN FACT A RISK. If I'm only 400k into my combo and I want to TAC to hinder your meter, I take a risk of losing a lot damage for something i might not get. The problem is right now it's totally unfair to the defender because you have no idea which 3 they'll choose since no one actually cares about the effects as well the TAC hit stun problem leads to huge damage.

    TACs shouldn't be about chance. They should be trade offs for damage to obtain an alternative benefit like meter steal or safe swaps. Nerf the combo options, buff the benefits. You have a clear mind game and a practical purpose that isn't a 66% reset. Risking getting comboed to get a reset combo is fighting stupid with stupid. Neither side needs that. THAT'S THE PROBLEM, there shouldnt be guessing.
    UMvC3: Cap (SS) | Doom (beam) | Strider (vajra) and Vergil (RS) | Morrigan (meter) | Strider (vajra)
    SC5: Astaroth
    SC4: Ivy, Rock

  • D4GamersD4Gamers Just Like Cap! Joined: Posts: 268
    The point everyone is missing is the high Reward we are getting from TACs is not the intention of TACs. The fact TAC's basically work as a 66% reset is an oversight.

    WHEN YOU BALANCE TAC REWARD, GETTING OUT OF THE COMBO IS IN FACT A RISK. If I'm only 400k into my combo and I want to TAC to hinder your meter, I take a risk of losing a lot damage for something i might not get. T

    You might've actually been on to something there if it wasn't for the fact that after stealing my meter, you're still going to be combo'ing me, gaining more meter while doing so and ending up with the same damage you would've gotten if you hadn't gone for the TAC. Dumb.
    -Vanilla MvC3: Main:Zero/ Viper/ Taskmaster I Alt: Skrull/ Wesker/ Sentinel
    -Ultimate MvC3:Main: Spencer/ Hulk/ Doom I Alt: Doom/ Akuma/ Strider
    - Currently learning: Ironfist, Dante, Frank West

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  • The Co-JonesThe Co-Jones Strongest in universe... Becomes a Scholar! Joined: Posts: 2,789 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd agree with making the attacker pay up 1 meter for a TAC

    I say that the defender gotta get some real reward (HEALTH REGENERATION!!) for breaking a TAC.

    Also, if you do break a TAC (left/right in this case), you make them lose a meter, or gain a meter if you break a successful down TAC.
    UMVC3: Taskmaster / Sentinel / Nova -|- Taskmaster / Dormammu / Sentinel

    Sentinel Model: COTA-94-Prototype Running Windows Vista


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  • ifbpwnstarifbpwnstar Captain 'Murica Walking Wiki Joined: Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭
    ...If I say nerf the combo potential....you're not gaining the same meter and damage. I'm saying buff those perks and limit the combo.

    It's not like I wrote several sentences pointing that out >_> (though im becoming convinced people are skimming my argument and not reading them)

    So EXAMPLE of a working current TAC:

    Solo: 700k!

    TAC's at 400k mark:
    up: +200-350k combo (why cuz it's damage and your goal is safe swap)
    side: +50-100k combo + meter steal (less damage for the meter steal!)
    down: +50-100k combo + meter gain (less damage for meter which might get you a DHC)

    Defenders viewpoint:
    Up TAC: if he wants to safe tag, i want to stop him from gaining solo damage, they must now take less damage to bypass my counter
    Side TAC: If I really need meter I'll block this option.
    Down TAC: if they want meter to get a DHC or fuel a team that needs meter I'll block that


    If it worked like that it would make a lot of sense. We have a valid mind game (no guessing, you block the most threatening option and get rewarded if they get greedy) Problem is we have all sides is like 400k+ extensions with a full bar of meter. NERF THAT.
    UMvC3: Cap (SS) | Doom (beam) | Strider (vajra) and Vergil (RS) | Morrigan (meter) | Strider (vajra)
    SC5: Astaroth
    SC4: Ivy, Rock

  • The Co-JonesThe Co-Jones Strongest in universe... Becomes a Scholar! Joined: Posts: 2,789 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd agree with making the attacker pay up 1 meter for a TAC

    I say that the defender gotta get some real reward (HEALTH REGENERATION!!) for breaking a TAC.

    Also, if you do break a TAC (left/right in this case), you make them lose a meter, or gain a meter if you break a successful down TAC.
    UMVC3: Taskmaster / Sentinel / Nova -|- Taskmaster / Dormammu / Sentinel

    Sentinel Model: COTA-94-Prototype Running Windows Vista


    3DS FC: 3024-5714-6069

    SRK Pokemon Rotation Battle Champion
  • LegendaryDJLegendaryDJ I'm Done Joined: Posts: 2,769
    ...If I say nerf the combo potential....you're not gaining the same meter and damage. I'm saying buff those perks and limit the combo.
    Before you continue to go on thinking that no one's reading your post and just arguing with you because they don't like your idea, I'm going to say I get it. The way to actually nerf the TAC combo without exploiting it like we already do is to make any result from the TAC end in a full screen push back into a neutral position. Like Dark Phoenix transforming. That single hit can be looked at as like a basic 200, 350k bonus damage or whatever. Either way, I get it. I've read your argument, I understand it, it's clear. Decrease the reward instead of increasing the risks.

    Problem--to me at least, and I know I'm just speaking for myself on this because I'm crazy--is that's no fun. I don't want safe bets. I want do or die, live on the edge, I kill you or mess up and end up dead myself. I want the old TAC counter back because it looks cool. That's it.
  • ifbpwnstarifbpwnstar Captain 'Murica Walking Wiki Joined: Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭
    Well I suppose my push is to make TAC a utility option as it's intended. People see it as a damage ante option, and it doesn't work that way and they're right to be mad.
    UMvC3: Cap (SS) | Doom (beam) | Strider (vajra) and Vergil (RS) | Morrigan (meter) | Strider (vajra)
    SC5: Astaroth
    SC4: Ivy, Rock

  • otterotter PSN: MyBodyIsInfested Joined: Posts: 2,971 ✭✭✭
    If it worked like that it would make a lot of sense. We have a valid mind game (no guessing, you block the most threatening option and get rewarded if they get greedy) Problem is we have all sides is like 400k+ extensions with a full bar of meter. NERF THAT.

    Wow finally someone who gets it.
  • FuLLBLeeDFuLLBLeeD fartboner Joined: Posts: 2,118
    I don't want someone to get a full combo if they counter TAC, I don't want TAC in the game PERIOD.

    Barring that Duck Strong's suggestion of making it cost one bar is the best one by far.
  • AlphaCommandoAlphaCommando Secksmaster Joined: Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ok, so here's what I've taken as the optimal result of Capcom fixing TAC's.

    Up exchange: Instant K.O all 3 of your opponent's characters.
    Side exchange: Give your opponent an extra life.
    Down exchange: Freeze the game.

    Breaking the exchange costs $4.95.
    Team Breath of Fire IV (Ryu, Won-Qu, Fou-Lu): Zero[6] γ, Amaterasu[5] β, Dante[6] α
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  • shinquickmanshinquickman Joined: Posts: 900
    Just tossing some crazy ideas around, but here it goes.

    Charge :b: and Charge :d: attacks:
    -All charge inputs can be stored until the move is executed. A stored charge move can be executed by doing the move input without charging :b: or :d: . For example, if Hulk charges :b: long enough, he can move around normally, then press :b::f: +:atk: later in a match to do his Gamma Wave. He can still perform Gamma Wave normally with Charge :b:, :f:+:atk: as long as he completes the input within 6f of charging.
    -Only one Charge move can be stored at a time. Also, the input to complete a stored charge move is strict. Stored charge :b: moves must be completed with :b::f: + :atk: and stored charge :d: moves must be completed with :d::u: + :atk:. No diagonals. Characters have a faint glow if they have a stored charge. Chun-Li glows pink. Shuma-Gorath glows bluish gray. Hulk glows yellow. Chun-Li's glow is dimmer if she's charging for a SBK rather than an EX SBK.

    Shuma-Gorath:
    -Gains Supreme Mystic Stare and Dimension Rift.
    -For Supreme Mystic Stare, Charge :b: until Shuma glows, then :f: + :atk:. It takes the same amount of time for Shuma to glow for a Supreme Mystic Stare as it takes Chun-Li to glow for an EX SBK. Supreme Mystic Stare has the same properties as a normal Mystic Stare, but has 3f less Start-up.
    -After Supreme Mystic Stare, Shuma-Gorath is able to perform Dimension Rift by pressing :atk:+:s:. During Dimension Rift, Shuma teleports behind the opponent on the ground. It has 15f of start-up and 5f of recovery.
    -Forward dash has a smaller upper hitbox.
    -Backdash Invincibility starts up on the first frame of backdashing.
    -Mystic Ray input changed to :qcb: + :atk:.
    -Chaos Dimension knockdown lasts long enough for Shuma to OTG. May be mashed in the air. Damage decreased to 300k-400k.
    XBL Gamertag: shadowman2099
  • ifbpwnstarifbpwnstar Captain 'Murica Walking Wiki Joined: Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭
    Just tossing some crazy ideas around, but here it goes.

    Charge :b: and Charge :d: attacks:
    -All charge inputs can be stored until the move is executed. A stored charge move can be executed by doing the move input without charging :b: or :d: . For example, if Hulk charges :b: long enough, he can move around normally, then press :b::f: +:atk: later in a match to do his Gamma Wave. He can still perform Gamma Wave normally with Charge :b:, :f:+:atk: as long as he completes the input within 6f of charging.
    -Only one Charge move can be stored at a time. Also, the input to complete a stored charge move is strict. Stored charge :b: moves must be completed with :b::f: + :atk: and stored charge :d: moves must be completed with :d::u: + :atk:. No diagonals. Characters have a faint glow if they have a stored charge. Chun-Li glows pink. Shuma-Gorath glows bluish gray. Hulk glows yellow. Chun-Li's glow is dimmer if she's charging for a SBK rather than an EX SBK.
    That input wouldn't work well with that system. Say you had a charge, then you block an opponent ( :b: ), then attempt to :f:+:h: throw. your charge input will come out instead. What your asking for is similar to Dorm with his charges but only 1 at a time. It would need a different input and really charging's intention is to limit the use of doing the move at any given moment, you must prepare for it. In SF4 guile's flash kick would be absurd if you could sit on a charge and have a loaded flashkick at any given moment, same theory applies here although no move really has quite the same impact as that example.
    UMvC3: Cap (SS) | Doom (beam) | Strider (vajra) and Vergil (RS) | Morrigan (meter) | Strider (vajra)
    SC5: Astaroth
    SC4: Ivy, Rock

  • shinquickmanshinquickman Joined: Posts: 900
    That input wouldn't work well with that system. Say you had a charge, then you block an opponent ( :b: ), then attempt to :f:+:h: throw. your charge input will come out instead. What your asking for is similar to Dorm with his charges but only 1 at a time. It would need a different input and really charging's intention is to limit the use of doing the move at any given moment, you must prepare for it. In SF4 guile's flash kick would be absurd if you could sit on a charge and have a loaded flashkick at any given moment, same theory applies here although no move really has quite the same impact as that example.
    Both games are radically different and therefore treat charge moves radically differently. In SF4, charging is as much of a burden as it is a benefit. In SF4, charge characters are rewarded for the downtime of staying in one place by gaining moves that can be used more readily on reaction (Flash Kick vs. Shoryuken) or just being slightly more powerful than a noncharged move (Sonic Boom vs. Hadouken). In Marvel, not so much. The playing field is too broad and character movement is too fast for the burden of sitting in one place to be worthwhile. Yeah, there are ways to charge and move at the same time, but it's extremely limited.

    But considering all that, I'm starting to see now how most charge storage can clash too much with other inputs. I'd probably reserve charge storage only for EX SBK the proposed Supreme Mystic Stare, and any other moves that take a while to charge. So here's a revised version.

    Charge input storage:
    -Some charge :d: or charge :b: inputs can be stored until the charge move is executed. These moves include Chun-Li's EX Spinning Bird Kick and Shuma-Gorath's Supreme Mystic Stare (see below). A charge input is stored when either of these characters begin to glow. Chun-Li glows pink. Shuma-Gorath glows bluish gray. A stored charge move can be executed by doing the move input without charging :b: or :d:. For example, if Chun-Li charges :d: until she begins to glow, she may move around freely, then do :d: :u: +:atk: to perform an EX Spinning Bird kick. She can still do an EX Spinning Bird Kick with charge :d:, :u: +:atk: if the :u: +:atk: input is performed within 5f of charging.
    -Only one Charge move can be stored at a time. Also, the input to complete a stored charge move is strict. Stored charge :b: moves must be completed with :b::f: + :atk: and stored charge :d: moves must be completed with :d::u: + :atk:. You only have 3f to complete the input, no diagonals are allowed in the input, and the directionals must be pressed when the joystick is neutral.

    Shuma-Gorath:
    -Gains Supreme Mystic Stare and Dimension Rift.
    -For Supreme Mystic Stare, Charge :b: until Shuma glows, then :f: + :atk:. It takes the same amount of time for Shuma to glow for a Supreme Mystic Stare as it takes Chun-Li to glow for an EX SBK, but it can only be charged in the ground. Supreme Mystic Stare has the same properties as a normal Mystic Stare, but has 3f less Start-up.
    -After Supreme Mystic Stare, Shuma-Gorath is able to perform Dimension Rift by pressing :atk:+:s:. During Dimension Rift, Shuma teleports behind the opponent on the ground. It has 15f of start-up and 5f of recovery.
    -Forward dash has a smaller upper hitbox.
    -Backdash Invincibility starts up on the first frame of backdashing.
    -Mystic Ray input changed to :qcb: + :atk:.
    -Chaos Dimension knockdown lasts long enough for Shuma to OTG. May be mashed in the air. Damage decreased to 300k-400k.

    Chun-Li:
    -EX Spinning Bird Kick invincibility reduced to 15F.
    XBL Gamertag: shadowman2099
  • BonuspokusBonuspokus My head's on fire Joined: Posts: 315
    I really don't like that idea at all, I don't like the way that charge moves work either, I'd rather charge my attacks holding a button like Zero or completely change the motion to something like a :dp::s:

    Using the stick to charge is just wrong in a game like marvel where a single teleport could mess your charging motions.

    Also, the worst motion in this game is Skrull's rolling hook, that shit stops you from using it on reaction, they should just change the motion to :dp::s: or something like :f::b::f::atk:...
  • ifbpwnstarifbpwnstar Captain 'Murica Walking Wiki Joined: Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭
    We Hitbox uses don't mind that rolling hook input :D
    UMvC3: Cap (SS) | Doom (beam) | Strider (vajra) and Vergil (RS) | Morrigan (meter) | Strider (vajra)
    SC5: Astaroth
    SC4: Ivy, Rock

  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 3,947
    The charge inputs are fine they just need to get rid of the charge time or make that shit like one second instead of two

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
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  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 7,367 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't get why they don't use the s button more for inputs. It would fix a lot of stupid and pointless inputs.


    Shuma-Gorath:
    -Gains Supreme Mystic Stare and Dimension Rift.
    -For Supreme Mystic Stare, Charge :b: until Shuma glows, then :f: + :atk:. It takes the same amount of time for Shuma to glow for a Supreme Mystic Stare as it takes Chun-Li to glow for an EX SBK, but it can only be charged in the ground. Supreme Mystic Stare has the same properties as a normal Mystic Stare, but has 3f less Start-up.
    -After Supreme Mystic Stare, Shuma-Gorath is able to perform Dimension Rift by pressing :atk:+:s:. During Dimension Rift, Shuma teleports behind the opponent on the ground. It has 15f of start-up and 5f of recovery.
    -Forward dash has a smaller upper hitbox.
    -Backdash Invincibility starts up on the first frame of backdashing.
    -Mystic Ray input changed to :qcb: + :atk:.
    -Chaos Dimension knockdown lasts long enough for Shuma to OTG. May be mashed in the air. Damage decreased to 300k-400k.

    .
    I don't see the point of having a super mystic stare. Giving shuma a teleport would obviously make him a lot better, but it doesn't fit his playstyle that he has in this game, and I hate teleports, so I would not advocate for that change. Invincibility on the first frame of backdashing would be kind of stupid since then you could just keep plinking it and be unfuckable-with.
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
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  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 3,947
    Isn't his back dash him turning into an eyeball? I don't think you could plink that

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • shinquickmanshinquickman Joined: Posts: 900
    I don't get why they don't use the s button more for inputs. It would fix a lot of stupid and pointless inputs.

    I don't see the point of having a super mystic stare. Giving shuma a teleport would obviously make him a lot better, but it doesn't fit his playstyle that he has in this game, and I hate teleports, so I would not advocate for that change. Invincibility on the first frame of backdashing would be kind of stupid since then you could just keep plinking it and be unfuckable-with.
    Again, I was just tossing ideas around. Shuma already has a teleport animation from Chaos Dimension, so I just figured you could make that into a move by itself or whatever the case may be. Mostly, though, I just would like Shuma to be able to keep Mystic Stare stored one way or another. This "Super Mystic Stare" could honestly do anything as long as he can keep the charge input store dealy.

    As for the backdash, most backdashes can't be plinked at every possible frame, including Shuma's backdash IIRC. If his backdash does indeed last long enough for Shuma to herpdash all day until time runs out, then it's just a matter of adjusting its frame data here and there. Something like this: Shuma Backdash- Active 16f, Invincible on 1-6f, cancellable on 11-16f.
    XBL Gamertag: shadowman2099
  • RoboticRobotic Joined: Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭✭
    Rolling Hook is the way it is precisely because it would be stupid on a normal input.
  • scytheavatarscytheavatar Joined: Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭
    Giving shuma a teleport would obviously make him a lot better, but it doesn't fit his playstyle that he has in this game, and I hate teleports, so I would not advocate for that change.

    Why wouldn't teleports fit Shuma? It could actually make him a pretty unique and fun character, ATM all he can use to get in on his opponent is his slow but tricky air movement. A teleport would add another dimension in his game and help him a lot in beating zoners.
  • BonuspokusBonuspokus My head's on fire Joined: Posts: 315
    Shuma Gorath does have a teleport animation in UMvC3 and previous games.
    shu-enter.gif

    He needs teleports ASAP.
  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 3,947
    I'm not against them giving him a teleport so long as he comes out of that portal like he is in a fight and ready to get back in action as opposed to taking his time getting out of there like he just showered or something like in that gif.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 6,599 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Instead, how about no teleports for anyone?
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • GomuGomuGomuGomu Should've never let you round cake Joined: Posts: 7,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Instead, how about no teleports for anyone?

    But how am I supposed to mix people up?
    ULTIMATE MARVEL VS CAPCOM 3 IS DEAD. The Dante/Dormammu/Magneto prophecy shall forever remain a lost text left unfound by the Marvel pilgrims. The legacy of Thor/Strange/Doom shall never be realized and the myth of Viper will never be confirmed. The Marvel community uninterested in true enlightenment, have given themselves to the lesser gods like footdive and fraudulent hitboxes who offer hollow rewards for little effort. Thank the lord Magneto that the true god was discovered and he will continue to zoop zoop these lesser gods until the end of time.
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 6,599 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, and get around zoning. How do you deal with zoning if you have to deal with zoning :looney:?
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

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  • eivellordsm2eivellordsm2 Macho Barbarian dongzilla Joined: Posts: 1,334
    But how am I supposed to mix people up?
    by using skill not quarter circle back + assist
  • GomuGomuGomuGomu Should've never let you round cake Joined: Posts: 7,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
    by using skill not quarter circle back + assist

    I dunno, doesn't sound practical.
    ULTIMATE MARVEL VS CAPCOM 3 IS DEAD. The Dante/Dormammu/Magneto prophecy shall forever remain a lost text left unfound by the Marvel pilgrims. The legacy of Thor/Strange/Doom shall never be realized and the myth of Viper will never be confirmed. The Marvel community uninterested in true enlightenment, have given themselves to the lesser gods like footdive and fraudulent hitboxes who offer hollow rewards for little effort. Thank the lord Magneto that the true god was discovered and he will continue to zoop zoop these lesser gods until the end of time.
  • eivellordsm2eivellordsm2 Macho Barbarian dongzilla Joined: Posts: 1,334
    I dunno, doesn't sound practical.
    well characters without teleports still have a good mix up game (not all but some)
  • GomuGomuGomuGomu Should've never let you round cake Joined: Posts: 7,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
    well characters without teleports still have a good mix up game (not all but some)

    That's because they have Tri-Dashes, standing overheads, instant overheads, pass through moves, or command throws + good low.
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  • BakuhakubasugasuBakuhakubasugasu Eating dreams since '96. Joined: Posts: 3,327
    Why wouldn't teleports fit Shuma? It could actually make him a pretty unique and fun character, ATM all he can use to get in on his opponent is his slow but tricky air movement. A teleport would add another dimension in his game and help him a lot in beating zoners.
    Shuma is already unique and fun to play. People just don't want to put time into him.

    He doesn't need a teleport since he already has a box dash. There's characters that don't even have a air dash or a teleport so why should Shuma get a teleport when he already has a box dash? He also has his mystic smashes to move him around the screen as well. You're not supposed to do them mindlessly, but options are still options.
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  • eivellordsm2eivellordsm2 Macho Barbarian dongzilla Joined: Posts: 1,334
    That's because they have Tri-Dashes, standing overheads, instant overheads, pass through moves, or command throws + good low.
    exactly so they don't need teleports
  • GomuGomuGomuGomu Should've never let you round cake Joined: Posts: 7,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
    exactly so they don't need teleports

    Right, and teleport characters don't have these or aren't built to effectively use them with the exception of Wesker, Phoenix, or Vergil. Explain how Strange is going to mix anyone up without a teleport?
    ULTIMATE MARVEL VS CAPCOM 3 IS DEAD. The Dante/Dormammu/Magneto prophecy shall forever remain a lost text left unfound by the Marvel pilgrims. The legacy of Thor/Strange/Doom shall never be realized and the myth of Viper will never be confirmed. The Marvel community uninterested in true enlightenment, have given themselves to the lesser gods like footdive and fraudulent hitboxes who offer hollow rewards for little effort. Thank the lord Magneto that the true god was discovered and he will continue to zoop zoop these lesser gods until the end of time.
  • eivellordsm2eivellordsm2 Macho Barbarian dongzilla Joined: Posts: 1,334
    Right, and teleport characters don't have these or aren't built to effectively use them with the exception of Wesker, Phoenix, or Vergil. Explain how Strange is going to mix anyone up without a teleport?
    I'm not expert in strange but I'd say he could do the day 1 magneto mix up of low flight S or when helped by a lockdown assist go low fly unfly low....
    this might not be that good but my strange is just an assist.
    also his mix up game shouldn't be too good because he is a zoning character
  • AceKillahAceKillah Divine Blade Joined: Posts: 15,351 ✭✭✭✭
    If anyone gets hit by a Strange doing unfly into cr.H they should be fucking ashamed of themselves.
    lol marvel.
  • GomuGomuGomuGomu Should've never let you round cake Joined: Posts: 7,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not expert in strange but I'd say he could do the day 1 magneto mix up of low flight S or when helped by a lockdown assist go low fly unfly low....
    this might not be that good but my strange is just an assist.
    also his mix up game shouldn't be too good because he is a zoning character

    Except in that scenario Strange does not have the mobility to put a lockdown assist to good use, and secondly that mixup sucks. He's not a zoning character, he's a trap/setup style character. Zoning in this game are characters who do absurd amounts of chip and/or are able to flood the screen with projectiles at a fast pace, and Strange is not built to do either.

    Anyway the only characters with teleports that are winning is Vergil and Dormammu, and Dorm's teleport game is not where he's getting his wins.
    ULTIMATE MARVEL VS CAPCOM 3 IS DEAD. The Dante/Dormammu/Magneto prophecy shall forever remain a lost text left unfound by the Marvel pilgrims. The legacy of Thor/Strange/Doom shall never be realized and the myth of Viper will never be confirmed. The Marvel community uninterested in true enlightenment, have given themselves to the lesser gods like footdive and fraudulent hitboxes who offer hollow rewards for little effort. Thank the lord Magneto that the true god was discovered and he will continue to zoop zoop these lesser gods until the end of time.
  • eivellordsm2eivellordsm2 Macho Barbarian dongzilla Joined: Posts: 1,334
    If anyone gets hit by a Strange doing unfly into cr.H they should be fucking ashamed of themselves.
    you'd be amazed at how often it works because no one expects it since it's that bad.
  • leafcolonelleafcolonel Apprentice of Magnetism Joined: Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭
    you'd be amazed at how often it works because no one expects it since it's that bad.

    Like Nova's standing overhead. That move is so bad and so slow you get mindfucked by it and it hits you.
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  • eivellordsm2eivellordsm2 Macho Barbarian dongzilla Joined: Posts: 1,334
    Like Nova's standing overhead. That move is so bad and so slow you get mindfucked by it and it hits you.
    true that...
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,080 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You guys still trying to turn Marvel 3 into Marvel 2? SMH...

    Just play Marvel 2.
    Except in that scenario Strange does not have the mobility to put a lockdown assist to good use, and secondly that mixup sucks. He's not a zoning character, he's a trap/setup style character. Zoning in this game are characters who do absurd amounts of chip and/or are able to flood the screen with projectiles at a fast pace, and Strange is not built to do either.

    Anyway the only characters with teleports that are winning is Vergil and Dormammu, and Dorm's teleport game is not where he's getting his wins.

    Yeah Strange is based around using projectiles to create offense. Almost like a projectile rushdown like Vanilla Phoenix was. Shit is on screen and then you have to worry about when or if he's going to teleport behind the shit on the screen that's tracking you. Which it can also do signficant chip. Strange's projectile game loses to some of the harder projectile zoning since his projectiles start up slower and leave him more unsafe on block. He can zone out pure melee characters but a Hawkeye or a Morrigan is going to force him to do mix ups off his projectiles and go in. Which can be an issue since his teleport doesn't go behind people if they are dead in the corner like most of the other cast.
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  • ironboy89ironboy89 Beep Boop Beep Joined: Posts: 4,656 ✭✭✭
    Can people just stop acting like every character needs a teleport to be good.

    People used to say that shit about Morrigan because they didn't understand how to move around with her, and now that they buffed Morrigan correctly...she doesn't need a teleport.

    Shuma needs better mobility with his ground/air dash, better priority on mystic smash, reduced recovery on his supers,etc. If Shuma had good movement, he wouldn't need a teleport.
  • BakuhakubasugasuBakuhakubasugasu Eating dreams since '96. Joined: Posts: 3,327
    I agree with making improvement on Shuma's movement options such as his dash but people saying he needs a teleport? Meh. There's enough teleporters as it is. He definitely needs an improvement on his recovery of his supers though. They're harsh as hell. lol
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  • BonuspokusBonuspokus My head's on fire Joined: Posts: 315
    Not saying that teleports are the only way for him to be succesful, but they would fit him and I would love to see some Shuma Gorath craziness in the future. Shuma Gorath is one of Marvel's strongest entities, he needs some love.

    I don't see offline teleports being one of the biggest problems in UMvC3 and this game shouldn't be balanced around online settings.
  • Din0Din0 Retired Joined: Posts: 4,114 ✭✭✭
    Shuma and Ammy are gods


    why the hell can't they teleport when Deadpool can
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  • eivellordsm2eivellordsm2 Macho Barbarian dongzilla Joined: Posts: 1,334
    Shuma and Ammy are gods


    why the hell can't they teleport when Deadpool can
    he has teleportation belt...
  • Mr.Dr.Mr.Dr. Marvel= greatest iteration of the worst game ever. Joined: Posts: 234
    I'm not expert in strange but I'd say he could do the day 1 magneto mix up of low flight S or when helped by a lockdown assist go low fly unfly low....
    this might not be that good but my strange is just an assist.
    also his mix up game shouldn't be too good because he is a zoning character

    His fly has 22 frames of startup and is super floaty, even in the unfly. If you can't go from down back to back in the time he does fly/unfly and S, you should just wait for MvC4. And his teleport puts you so close to the other character that there's no way it wasn't meant for his mix-up game. In fact, they're so good, the developers thought it shouldn't cross-up in the corner. It lets you capitalize off of assists or Daggers, or Flames of the Faltine, or the Eye, or whatever. Strange has decent zoning tools, but many of them are there to exploit your mistakes, not keep you out entirely. That's why he needs the teleports.
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  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 6,599 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Alright so maybe some teleports are OK, but I'm really not a fan of full screen, safe, tracking mixups that lead to TOD. No amount of arguing or rationalizing will ever convince me that's a good idea.

    Teleports need to carry a heck of a lot more risk than they currently do.
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  • ironboy89ironboy89 Beep Boop Beep Joined: Posts: 4,656 ✭✭✭
    It's more mindboggling that Capcom thinks airdash are more brainless than teleports were in Vanilla. It's like they didn't notice how ridiculous Wolverine's Derp Slash, Dante+haggar, or Phoenix's incoming mixups were. I knew every since airdashes were nerf in Vanilla that teleport+assist were going to rule in this game.

    Giving the entire cast teleports is like giving the entire cast airdashes, it just gives no personality to their movement.

    Fuck that nonsense, just nerf the brainless teleports from like Wolverine, Dorm, Zero, and Vergil a little more. Keep Deadpool, Strange, Coon's teleport the way are(they care the most risk in the entire game). IMO character who have bad movement should not need a fucking teleport to be good. It's just lazy to me...
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