UMVC3 Patch/Balance Discussion *NO PATCH...but word is out of possible ALL CAPCOM VS game coming*

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  • Lord_RaptorLord_Raptor Joined: Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You can give everyone teleports or airdashes and still have alot of personality to each. Capcom just sucks at that kind of thing.
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  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with making improvement on Shuma's movement options such as his dash but people saying he needs a teleport? Meh. There's enough teleporters as it is. He definitely needs an improvement on his recovery of his supers though. They're harsh as hell. lol
    The super recovery is dumb, but they need to fix the #1 fucking issue

    WHY THE HELL IS MYSTIC SMASH SO BAD? Make that shit cancellable with s+a button or something and throw invincible, and I'll be cool with its horrible durability. As it stands, it loses to throws, every normal in the game, has a bad hitbox, and yet cannot be cancelled at all unless you x-factor. There's like no damn way this character can move forward vs heavy zoning characters since he has 0 air options that are safe.
    Why wouldn't teleports fit Shuma? It could actually make him a pretty unique and fun character, ATM all he can use to get in on his opponent is his slow but tricky air movement. A teleport would add another dimension in his game and help him a lot in beating zoners.
    Shuma is a patience based character who relies on strong normals
    It's why his charge moves actually work somewhat decently well in many matchups. Adding a teleport would just be derpy, but people love their teleports I guess.
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  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,009
    It's not that people love their teleports. It's that Capcom decided to make them strong this time around. Teleports in previous versions were ass.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
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  • Lord_RaptorLord_Raptor Joined: Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One thing no one talks about, the layering this game, point characters are blocked by to much shit.
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  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was talking about the people saying shuma should have a teleport because he has the animation. That was what I was referencing when I said "people love their teleports I guess."
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  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,009
    I was talking about the people saying shuma should have a teleport because he has the animation. That was what I was referencing when I said "people love their teleports I guess."
    Oh ok my bad.
    One thing no one talks about, the layering this game, point characters are blocked by to much shit.
    I agree. The assist shouldn't come out when a character is hit. Likewise I think the assist recovery is way too long. It would be nice to start having real pressure strings and block traps back.
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
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  • JohnNumbersJohnNumbers Joined: Posts: 52
    I think he's talking about the notion that it's hard to see you and your opponent characters when you're busy trying to block things like pressure and assist attacks, because the effects from all of this stuff appear in front of the point characters(as in, closer to players on the Z axis)...
    Edit: Actually, probably not...
  • BakuhakubasugasuBakuhakubasugasu Eating dreams since '96. Joined: Posts: 3,329
    Teleports on a charge character? e5039067.png

    Might as well make Shuma's teleport a charge move as well. e5039053.png
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  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 6,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh ok my bad.


    I agree. The assist shouldn't come out when a character is hit. Likewise I think the assist recovery is way too long. It would be nice to start having real pressure strings and block traps back.

    There's also the problem that pushblock sends you halfway across the field. Some characters can get around that, but many can't. I can certainly guess at why they made it that way (probably because offense is so easy to maintain), but it just seems like another band aid to fix a system that was fundamentally flawed to begin with.

    Constant pressure + easy, repeatable, safe mixups + TOD from any hit = really stupid game

    Ridiculous pushblock was obviously Capcom's solution.

    This was definitely not the case in MvC2.

    I don't think having to deal with constant pressure is such a terrible thing though. I mean it was part and parcel in MvC2 and made the game what it was for characters like Mags. I don't think it would work in Marvel 3 in its current state though.
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  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,009
    There's also the problem that pushblock sends you halfway across the field. Some characters can get around that, but many can't. I can certainly guess at why they made it that way (probably because offense is so easy to maintain), but it just seems like another band aid to fix a system that was fundamentally flawed to begin with.

    Constant pressure + easy, repeatable, safe mixups + TOD from any hit = really stupid game

    Ridiculous pushblock was obviously Capcom's solution.

    This was definitely not the case in MvC2.

    I don't think having to deal with constant pressure is such a terrible. I mean it was part and parcel in MvC2 and made the game what it was for characters like Mags. I don't think it would work in Marvel 3 in its current state though.

    Agreed.

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  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    bufff doom rocks nerf hidden missile
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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  • crimsonspider89crimsonspider89 Scarlet for DLC Joined: Posts: 2,984
    Thing is, with the pressure some characters can apply in this game, no pushblock would be bad. So many characters would need to be reworked to decrease some of the pressure. I mean, imagine no pushblock with Felicia.

    Also first thing that needs to be fixed is TACs. Way too much reward and too little risk as well as creating all the infinites and screwing damage scaling as well.
    Zero is now Ichigo. Deal.
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  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    heres the billion dollar question....is umvc3 more broken than mvc2 consider all the stuff found for this game
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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  • xero15xero15 Follow me on Twitter Joined: Posts: 4,009
    heres the billion dollar question....is umvc3 more broken than mvc2 consider all the stuff found for this game
    no
    I blame... the new generation for wanting things to be easy :annoy:
    I'm that Spider-man guy... or better yet, just call me Z
    If you don't like change you'll like irrelevance even less.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,300 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Everybody is a threat and there's always a way to kill somebody that's a threat. Super jump height shenanigans aren't as dominant and you can block more than once on incoming. Plus no whiffing to build meter all day unless you use Morri assist.

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  • mrdrofficermrdrofficer Joined: Posts: 227
    This thread is dying! Doom is GDLK! We don't need a Patch! Arthur is fine and has hidden tech!
  • tick_tocktick_tock Joined: Posts: 653
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 6,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    bufff doom rocks nerf hidden missile

    You don't know what you're asking for.

    Missiles are a joke compared to Marvel 2 rocks.
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  • BakuhakubasugasuBakuhakubasugasu Eating dreams since '96. Joined: Posts: 3,329
    I still find it funny how rocks was in the "anti-air" category.
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  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You don't know what you're asking for.

    Missiles are a joke compared to Marvel 2 rocks.
    i was being sarcastic, i know how ridiculous mvc2 doom rocks were.but doom needs something to happen to him
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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  • lawlHTlawlHT youtube player Joined: Posts: 535
    i was being sarcastic, i know how ridiculous mvc2 doom rocks were.but doom needs something to happen to him

    no he doesn't.

    Doom is a solid character made ridiculous by stupid game mechanics that a sizeable chunk of the cast can abuse anyway. there's nothing wrong with Doom at all.
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  • nsongsternsongster Marvel 3 player/Arcade stick addict/Stream monster Joined: Posts: 94
    Doom barely has any weaknesses, he doesn't need to be made better. He already has three fantastic assists.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,300 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Make Doom better. He sux against projectile characters.

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  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 6,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i was being sarcastic, i know how ridiculous mvc2 doom rocks were.but doom needs something to happen to him

    I'd be ok with them getting rid of the hard knockdown on footdive but keeping the speed boos they gave it in Ultimate.

    Apart from that, his damage is a little ridiculous, but I don't think there's anything glaringly broken about him. He does kinda suck on point (just like I said over a year ago). It only took people this long to realize it.
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  • Cheech WizardCheech Wizard Joined: Posts: 3,299 ✭✭✭
    Would making j.H butter gun special cancellable like it was in mvc2 make him too strong?
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  • BakuhakubasugasuBakuhakubasugasu Eating dreams since '96. Joined: Posts: 3,329
    Would making j.H butter gun special cancellable like it was in mvc2 make him too strong?
    Oh man, I really don't think he needs that. He can already get full hit confirms off of butter gun as it is. :rolleyes:
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  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭✭✭
    just get rid of those filthy ugly stiff f champ hit confirms into s footdive
    please
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  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    what i think he needs is a hitbox fix,when he footdives he still manages to hit you when your right below his ass cheeks
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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  • KJunkKJunk Joined: Posts: 2,950
    He should probably do a little less damage and/or Foot Dives outside of air series (aka YOLO footdives or footdives to force an air-to-air conversion) should probably cause more HSD so the resulting combo isn't as huge.

    Guilty Gear used to do this well - if you use an 'easy' move to start a combo, that combo will be heavily scaled.

    To not completely nerf him, these losses can be compensated by giving him more condescending quotes and mean voice files to heckle his opponents with.
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  • leafcolonelleafcolonel Apprentice of Magnetism Joined: Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭
    Doom is fine as he is.

    Footdive doesn't need nerfing. It makes you respect the character and fear challenging it and trading into him ToDing you after air/ground teching. I'm glad they gave him those buffs from Vanilla, he feels like a much more threatening character now with a grappler archtype.
  • EnDaNickofTimeEnDaNickofTime Joined: Posts: 693 ✭✭✭
    Doom is fine as he is.

    Footdive doesn't need nerfing. It makes you respect the character and fear challenging it and trading into him ToDing you after air/ground teching. I'm glad they gave him those buffs from Vanilla, he feels like a much more threatening character now with a grappler archtype.

    nobody should be doing as much damage off of a random and lucky guess with a braindead hitconfirm like Footdive.... to be honest doom should be doing damage more like magneto, having to rely on a DHC or a reset to kill of a high health character.. especially since doom can dash cancel normals...
  • leafcolonelleafcolonel Apprentice of Magnetism Joined: Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭
    lol@using dash cancels for Doom needing to do as much damage as Magneto. Dash cancels are good and all and give him a ghetto jump cancel but he's nowhere near as good as Magneto point wise to justify nerfing his damage. Magneto has far better mobility, better mixups and a stronger zoning game along with better air normals and a ground dash to make his ground normals more effective in the footsie game.

    Footdive isn't the only braindead hitconfirm/move in this game, there are plenty of them out those spammable moves that plenty of the cast can abuse:
    -Most Divekicks
    -Shield Skills,Vergil entire grounded normal set
    -Every fucking thing Zero does
    -Pipes, level 4 frank jM, jS
    -Helm Breakers

    The game is simply derpy and filled with plenty of derpy hitboxes. Having a good move that keeps people from going ham vs Doom and making people respect him is not a bad idea.
  • EnDaNickofTimeEnDaNickofTime Joined: Posts: 693 ✭✭✭
    the conversation wasn't about anyone else.. if you want to discuss them then yes... i believe there should be some nerfing for the others too.. but Doom needs a nerf in at least one area... having the 3 great assists... while others have none.. doing spectacular damage... while others are crappy... the fact that he can fly AND airdash in general gives him better mobility than the majority of the cast... PLUS he can dash cancel normals which makes him much more oppresive... multiple OTGs... while some only have Hyper OTGs.... exellent okizeme... and excellent throws... he has all of the tools to open up characters nerfing his damage just a little would not hurt him as much as you think...
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 6,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    His ground dash is one of the worst ones in the game. That's why they threw him a bone with the dash cancel normals. I've yet to see anyone really use them in a particularly threatening way. It gives him a bit of character.

    Getting rid of that gimmick and giving him a proper dash (which I'm sure capcom would do)would end up making his pressure game much scarier.

    Vergil, Zero, Viper and Magneto all deserve to be on the chopping block long before Doom.

    What if they gave everyone decent assists? I don't think anyone would be against that idea if it's done with a bit of forethought.
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  • tick_tocktick_tock Joined: Posts: 653
    I'd love for each character to have decent assists. Most of the top characters have good assists already and a lot of the mid and low tier aren't as good on point and have shitty assists.

    I'd love to somehow be able to put deadpool and x23 on a team together without just playing the 2 of them with 1 assist.
  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    lol@using dash cancels for Doom needing to do as much damage as Magneto. Dash cancels are good and all and give him a ghetto jump cancel but he's nowhere near as good as Magneto point wise to justify nerfing his damage. Magneto has far better mobility, better mixups and a stronger zoning game along with better air normals and a ground dash to make his ground normals more effective in the footsie game.

    Footdive isn't the only braindead hitconfirm/move in this game, there are plenty of them out those spammable moves that plenty of the cast can abuse:
    -Most Divekicks
    -Shield Skills,Vergil entire grounded normal set
    -Every fucking thing Zero does
    -Pipes, level 4 frank jM, jS
    -Helm Breakers
    -HULK S.H
    -Ammy H
    -
    The game is simply ass and filled with plenty of fucking retarded hitboxes. Having a good move that keeps people from going ham vs Doom and making people respect him is not a bad idea.
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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  • shinquickmanshinquickman Joined: Posts: 944 ✭✭
    Shinquickman's very late responses time.
    WHY THE HELL IS MYSTIC SMASH SO BAD? Make that shit cancellable with s+a button or something and throw invincible, and I'll be cool with its horrible durability. As it stands, it loses to throws, every normal in the game, has a bad hitbox, and yet cannot be cancelled at all unless you x-factor. There's like no damn way this character can move forward vs heavy zoning characters since he has 0 air options that are safe.
    So, you want to turn Mystic Smash into a rolling foot dive? I'd rather Shuma not be a 1-dimensional derp character, and this is coming from the guy who's a proponent of "Let's give Shuma a teleport". Also, I have my doubts that this would actually make Shuma good. Derpy, but not good.
    Shuma is a patience based character who relies on strong normals
    It's why his charge moves actually work somewhat decently well in many matchups. Adding a teleport would just be derpy, but people love their teleports I guess.
    Wesker's also a patience-based character who relies on strong normals, yet he has a teleport :P Plus, wouldn't the Mystic Foot Dive above just detract from Shuma's normals just because that one move alone would be able to do so much work by itself?
    Teleports on a charge character? e5039067.png

    Might as well make Shuma's teleport a charge move as well. e5039053.png
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  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    patient based character....on a marvel game


    sticker,375x360.png
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

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  • GomuGomuGomuGomu Strider Sucks Joined: Posts: 8,220 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the conversation wasn't about anyone else.. if you want to discuss them then yes... i believe there should be some nerfing for the others too.. but Doom needs a nerf in at least one area... having the 3 great assists... while others have none.. doing spectacular damage... while others are crappy... the fact that he can fly AND airdash in general gives him better mobility than the majority of the cast... PLUS he can dash cancel normals which makes him much more oppresive... multiple OTGs... while some only have Hyper OTGs.... exellent okizeme... and excellent throws... he has all of the tools to open up characters nerfing his damage just a little would not hurt him as much as you think...

    But Doom loses every matchup so you at least need to give him somethin.
    Strider still sucks.
  • EnDaNickofTimeEnDaNickofTime Joined: Posts: 693 ✭✭✭
    Doom definitely doesn't lose every matchup...
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Shinquickman's very late responses time.

    So, you want to turn Mystic Smash into a rolling foot dive? I'd rather Shuma not be a 1-dimensional derp character, and this is coming from the guy who's a proponent of "Let's give Shuma a teleport". Also, I have my doubts that this would actually make Shuma good. Derpy, but not good.






    Where have you been the past 17 years?
    I don't think you know how mystic smash works. It would still have a shitty hitbox and durability but simply be throw invincible and cancellable. How is that derpy? I never said that was the only needed fix. I said that it is the #1 needed fix out of everything suggested.
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  • WildGamerWildGamer Joined: Posts: 1,019
    Deadpool with horizontal guns assist, grenade/ninja stars assist and katanarama OTG assist would be awesome
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  • EnDaNickofTimeEnDaNickofTime Joined: Posts: 693 ✭✭✭
    Deadpool with horizontal guns assist, grenade/ninja stars assist and katanarama OTG assist would be awesome
    if deadpool's guns started up faster as an assist and caused a soft knockdown it would be useful... quick work is a low assist which is useful in its own right... katanarama needs a hitbox buff tho.. because in the corners it can get kind of iffy...
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,300 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Doom definitely doesn't lose every matchup...

    Just all of the relevant ones. Nerfing him would make him easier to fight for lesser characters, but in the meta he would just lose harder to what he already loses to. With is the majority of characters with a projectile game. He's basically the game's Honda/Gief at this point. Dicks some melee characters, gets blown up by projectile characters, good support.
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  • evilweevleevilweevle Xbox GT : MrFossy Joined: Posts: 3,563 ✭✭✭
    it would be awesome if every character had 3 useful assists unlike it is currently. but then again that could be really difficult to pull off unless they started including normals into the mix ala skullgirls or something.

    there are some characters i honestly wouldnt have a clue what to do with. it was mentioned on the spidey threads it would be cool if his spidersting assist also had the follow up. would make it easy to convert from an anti air and also give him some unblockable setups too. H web ball would be a lot better than the L one we have currently too for the extended capture time.

    web throw would be pretty cool as an assist as well but thatll never happen.
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,300 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Megacrash would fix so much bs

    Nuh uh. Megacrash is for animu game weeaboos. You're supposed to take your combos like a man because this is Murrica.

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    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • BaragganBaraggan Joined: Posts: 51
    I'd be completely fine with Mystic Smash now if Devitalization had a use outside of trolling Morrigan, Doom and occasionally Nova and Firebrand. It should have instant recovery, or at least invincible recovery or meter drain to justify why I can't cancel a successful counter into anything at all. You can Chaos Dimension a whiffed command grab but not a projectile counter. Hell they should have made it its own separate move from the command grab to make it easier to counter on reflex considering the move's startup.
    Shuma/Wesker/Dorm / Shuma/Spencer/Doom / Spidey/Shuma/Doom / Dorm/Strange/Shuma
    Learning Firebrand/Shuma/Doom
  • Mr.PaVy-RDMr.PaVy-RD Joined: Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    reduce the recovery on all of shumas moves make the start up of his moves faster.and for the love of basedgod reduce all the invincibility's on moves in this game
    I block better in Marvel than i do in Streetfighter :(

    3s-Yang/Urien/Dudley
    Ae2012-Yun/Yang/Seth/Ryu/Cody/Dudley
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • Negative-Zer0Negative-Zer0 Joined: Posts: 5,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If everyone else could move upwards socially, so can blacks. They are just dumb.
    "This comparison ignores the unique history of discrimination against Black people in America. Over the past four centuries, Black history has included nearly 250 years of slavery, 100 years of legalized discrimination, and only 50 years of anything else. Jews and Asians, on the other hand, are populations that immigrated to North America and included doctors, lawyers, professors, and entrepreneurs among their ranks. Moreover, European Jews are able to function as part of the White majority. To expect Blacks to show the same upward mobility as Jews and Asians is to deny the historical and social reality that Black people face."
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