Get your drink on - A Shun Di Thread

2»

Comments

  • Average SkylerAverage Skyler Joined: Posts: 45
    Its probably one of his worst match-ups since almost all of Kage's BnB costs you 2-4 drinks if it all lands, and most of his stuff is hard to punish raw. You really have to know Shun and rely on some less-than-fancy tactics such as agressive 1PK abuses. If you read the console topic, you'll see my long post about leading the opponent. Against Kage, this is literally your entire match boiled down to if you guess right or wrong. If you've got the wrong ideal, you won't get far in the match and you'll never stay anywhere near 6-8 drink range.

    Shun is in a tight spot in that he has to force the mistakes and drink every chance he gets, but its magical how he does it.
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    Posted by Average Skyler (thanks a lot for all the advice!!!) on the VF5FS console thread:
    • I personally find myself doing something beyond just reading them, and I go into leading them.

      I play Shun Di, and every match my first move I aim to land is a knockdown 1PK or just 1P, then I see how they react. Suprisingly, 1PK is one of his best spacing tools, and often it goes like this.

      Match start: Block, punish unsafe with 1PK.
      -> Opponent techs
      -> Opponent lays there

      Hit them with 1PK or any knock down
      -> Grab punish their tech, +4 drink with the 66P+G
      -> Flip on them

      Repeat previous situation
      -> Do it again
      -> Do it again

      Repeat previous situation
      -> Opponent stays down this time, flip on them
      -> Opponent starts teching, Grab punish

      Repeat previous situation
      -> Opponent crouch blocks, oh hell you've been punished.

      Opponent's reaction = Crouch block prevents it all

      Knock them down
      -> Opponent crouch blocks, make them eat an overhead


      Basically using some proper tools, you can force your opponent to play a guessing game, the answer to which you know in the first few seconds. This is actually how I win most matches is that I punish the choices and get to 8+ drink in the first 20 seconds of the fight. From there its mix-up city, but since I exclusively play Shun Di on XBL, I find myself put against better Shun Di's who I usually strike on par with. One of them even called me "Sober Di", since most matches against him I won just by using basic spacing and punishes rather than the conventional "Hide and drink". Most of the time, in fact, I don't really get above 4 drinks in a full match set unless I have to. This is mainly because I never need to for the sake that my basic BnB takes care of most things.

      Do I spam the 1PK? Its a good tool for spacing and some extra damage on combos, the knockdown is great. I don't spam it like its my only move, but rather its my go-to button like Jacky's backflip-kick. Opponent is applying heavy pressure? Make them eat a 1PK to keep them honest, and space them out with 1P. Its a great momentum breaker when you force them to block low in hopes of catching you, and you donkey kick them in the face for it.
    • The key is to use 1PK as a confirm and to end off stuff like a successful 4PK into 2PP 1PK into your guessing game, or a successful PPPK (rare as they are, they do come when your opponent expects the PP4P grab fake) into 1PK into your guessing game.
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • Average SkylerAverage Skyler Joined: Posts: 45
    Some more advice. I noticed in the OP you listed 6P+K as slow and hard to land.

    Try this.
    On a successful 4KP, do one crouching punch and then buffer in the 6P+K.
    If you do it right, it'll land as an "escapable" attack (If you've been leading they won't tech) Meaning you get your +5 drink for free almost if you land the cripple.

    Past 8 drinks, if you do your basic 236PP into 6P+K, it'll also land as an "escapable" (once again, depends on your leading) which brings you to +5 drinks.
    Its a sloppy but unexpected hit since it doesn't look like it will land so low to the ground, but its one of those frame things. The computer sees the opponent as "airborn" and it enters the hitbox.

    Landing a successful donkey kick will make it an unescapable +5 drink, a good eay to fake out your opponent is to go for the cripple punch (safe if they block due to stagger) until you know they will attept to counter. Then go into the kick and donkey them up. You'll be -1 drink, but trading a momentary -1 for a +5 is a good deal since, at the match start, you go from 0 to 5 meaning you can space back, get your 6, and then you have access to your PPKK high/low mix up. From that you can 1PK as a juggle and play the guessing game.
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    Some more advice. I noticed in the OP you listed 6P+K as slow and hard to land.

    Try this.
    On a successful 4KP, do one crouching punch and then buffer in the 6P+K.
    If you do it right, it'll land as an "escapable" attack (If you've been leading they won't tech) Meaning you get your +5 drink for free almost if you land the cripple.

    Past 8 drinks, if you do your basic 236PP into 6P+K, it'll also land as an "escapable" (once again, depends on your leading) which brings you to +5 drinks.
    Its a sloppy but unexpected hit since it doesn't look like it will land so low to the ground, but its one of those frame things. The computer sees the opponent as "airborn" and it enters the hitbox.

    Now that you say this, I'd like to ask you some questions about terminology (I'm not a native English speaker, although I translate English to Spanish). These are the things I don't understand:

    > Flip on them

    "escapable" attack

    cripple punch

    PS: once again, thanks a lot for all the detailed input
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • Average SkylerAverage Skyler Joined: Posts: 45
    In fact, here is a small list of things you can do into 6P+K. Most are escapable, but the ones that aren't are listed with a UE.

    4KP -> 2P -> 6P+K
    236P -> P -> 6P+K
    236PP -> 6P+K
    Any donkey kick -> 6P+K (UE)
    66K -> P -> 6P+K
    214KK (costs 5 drink) -> P -> 6P+K (gives 5 drink)
    2P+K+G -> P -> 6P+K (UE if staggered)
    Wall pin is an easy lead in.
  • Average SkylerAverage Skyler Joined: Posts: 45
    "Flip on them" is just my way of saying Shun's 8P while they are on the ground. He flips and lands on them.

    "Escapable" attacks are noted by the green number on the hit counter in the Dojo. Essentially, the opponent can tech and avoid the hit.

    Cripple punch is my way of saying Shun's 4KP When landed, as it cripples them (forces them into a bent-over state in which you can do just about anything).
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    "Flip on them" is just my way of saying Shun's 8P while they are on the ground. He flips and lands on them.

    "Escapable" attacks are noted by the green number on the hit counter in the Dojo. Essentially, the opponent can tech and avoid the hit.

    Cripple punch is my way of saying Shun's 4KP When landed, as it cripples them (forces them into a bent-over state in which you can do just about anything).

    Ah OK. The cripple punch is when Shun punches them in the gut LOL

    WOW, thanks a lot for all the info. I need to re-read this, get it into my mind and practice it later today.
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • Average SkylerAverage Skyler Joined: Posts: 45
    Its no problem, just some stuff I cooked up in the lab. The fact that anyone at all is interested means I've done what I came to do. I'll be looking into him more and I'll let you all know if I find any more tech with him.
  • Average SkylerAverage Skyler Joined: Posts: 45
    Interesting note:
    After the first few times, players will start teching like mad. Play your wake-up grab game with them. Eventually they will be forced to start attacking on tech, allowing you to punish with some well-spaced attacks like 1PK and 4KP or 4KK into donkey kick and 6P+K
  • rhymesxreasonsrhymesxreasons Joined: Posts: 95
    Hopefully this is the right place to ask, I am looking for some training friends on PS3 to learn more with Shun. I finally got past the Dan ranking (not a big deal I know), but it's getting pretty hard now. I am losing to a lot of Jacky's, Vanessa's, Akira's, and Lei's. If anyone plays during the mornings (PST), I would like to get some help so I can actually do well in tournaments. Thanks!
  • Average SkylerAverage Skyler Joined: Posts: 45
    What system?
    Also by asking in here you'll get mostly Shun Di vs Shun Di, however if your looking for some tech I have a lot the page before this one.
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    I'm going to continue asking questions about matchups as there was a lot of good feedback last time :)

    I'm having trouble with

    Jean: Basically I tend to misjudge his range. His hits can really go a long way!

    Brad: I tend to think his strings are shorter than they really are and attack before it's my turn. I guess I have to do the same thing I did with Kage: Go into command training to see what tools he has.

    Pai and Lau: How to deal with their fast combo strings/mixups
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    Shun Di's Arcade Character Intros:

    I just thought I'd post them here as they're so much fun :)
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • Average SkylerAverage Skyler Joined: Posts: 45
    I'm going to continue asking questions about matchups as there was a lot of good feedback last time :)

    I'm having trouble with

    Jean: Basically I tend to misjudge his range. His hits can really go a long way!

    Brad: I tend to think his strings are shorter than they really are and attack before it's my turn. I guess I have to do the same thing I did with Kage: Go into command training to see what tools he has.

    Pai and Lau: How to deal with their fast combo strings/mixups

    Against Jean, his main BnB comes in his delay strings and wall-hits. If your on a small walled stage (platform on the lake), for example, Jean can walk over Shun all day long. Shun really needs room to work, so playing to the long end of the stage will come to an advantage. You do have a benefit in that you have plenty of tools to punish his more fancy attacks (delay anything turns into a free 66P+G) but he can take off drinks like crazy with his dashing punch, which I believe robs 1 or 2 on the spot every time. Your best chance is to wait for him to lose that long-leg advantage (against good Jeans, easier said than done) by closing in and guarding when he delays his strings or goes for something with decent recovery time. Though you'd have room to land your 1PK, I find its better to get in his face and pressure him. Jean's biggest flaw is he has a horrendous time dealing with pressure. Close the distance and keep on him, moreso make sure you keep yourself either outside of his range or deep inside of it. If you get caught at the sweet spot theres literally nothing you can do as Shun.

    Brad I find a bit easier in that he has some obvious sound cues to when he is hitting and when he is bobbing. Listening is more important than reading or leading since Brad, in all honesty, is probably the hardest character to read when he is on the offensive. Once you hear the "shh" storm die down, thats your best chance to hit them.

    Against Pai, you haven't got much luck but she is hella easier to deal with than eileen. Learn the opponent's openings and how the react, it might take you two rounds of losses to get it down. However, her tools are very limited in comparison to Shun, so eventually you'll know all of her tricks and the timings. Against Lau, its all about building habits in the opponent by doing the leading from earlier. Lau's wake-ups are usually boiled down to wake-up into knockdown, or tech into guard, both of which are easy to walk over.

    Jean - Get in his face or out of his range, but avoid the sweet spot. He has a weakness for direct pressure, and with Shun there should be no shortage.

    Brad - Learn to listen for the audio clues to when he stops, and hit him in that short span. It'll be a match of bursts, so don't be afraid to go all out in your combos to achieve the maximum amount of damage. Pressure in short spans, and remember Brad's main high-low are pretty visually obvious. Use all the tools you get.

    Pai - Make her use up her tools and learn fast. Its a match of adaptation, and luckily for you Shun has more moves and between cancels he will likely not run dry.

    Lau - Lead him all day, and learn how they like to wake up.
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    Thanks again for the info!

    I've been having better luck with Jean lately.

    About Brad: It's funny you should mention the sound, as I play with a very low volume in order to avoid waking my daughter (1 month old) up. I guess I should turn the volume up when I play Brad. She sleeps soundly anyway, I wouldn't wake her if I threw a party right next to her LOL.

    About Pai and Lau. I haven't run into any for the last couple of days but I'll try out your tech next time. Basically, I have to be more careful (that's what I did with Jean). I really need to wait for my turn when I'm not sure about the string length or basically play more conservative until I get the hang of each match.
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • Average SkylerAverage Skyler Joined: Posts: 45
    Thats good to hear that you are having better luck, and after you've fought enough brads you'll start to see the very very subtle visual clues.

    Pai and Lau is always a coin toss for me, so my tech can only do so much. Thats just how, personally, I have the least trouble
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    I have been improving my win rate (from a miserable 30% to a slightly less miserable 40%). I'm now at 10th Dan so I guess I'll be a hunter soon and start the real ranking (I have already won against some hunters and higher). One more matchup question so I can improve more:

    What's the strategy to deal with big guys like Jeffrey or Wolf? I know how to deal with Taka, as I used him before I settled with Shun, but I tend to treat the big guys just like regular characters and then when they get close and grab-fuck me I go "ooops, maybe I shouldn't have let him get this close". LOL

    PS: When in "lay down" after 66p+k or 9p+k, k with the right timing can stuff most wake up attacks. :)


    PS2: Lots of interesting Shun/Fuudo vids here: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL17E96F4799561732

    PS3: Another interesting Shun Di playlisthttp://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE713583568242A36
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • Average SkylerAverage Skyler Joined: Posts: 45
    Against bigger guys like Jeff and Wolf, its a matter of having the better spacing.
    Work on knowing their range compared to yours, and abuse 1P (not 1PK, just 1P) and get ready to break grabs whatever you can
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    Against bigger guys like Jeff and Wolf, its a matter of having the better spacing.
    Work on knowing their range compared to yours, and abuse 1P (not 1PK, just 1P) and get ready to break grabs whatever you can

    Thanks for the input! When I started using 1PK I forgot about how useful a simple 1P can be as a poke. On the other hand, I've been punished lately for using 1PK too much, so I'm trying to mix it up a little more with mixups like PPKK, 1KK or 4KK. Any other low/high/mid mixups recommended?
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • Average SkylerAverage Skyler Joined: Posts: 45
    Actually theres really not much to say on high/low so much as safety.
    If they block a good high/low mix thats unsafe you've set yourself up to lose 75% of your health. Stick to the good stuff, 1KK is a great idea.
  • hibachifinalhibachifinal 後方互換性 Joined: Posts: 1,649
    okay after a week or two of just playing daily, ranked (hell, i'm STUCK on being Guardian rank, if that matters), player match, room, whatever... i've had some observations (well, at least to me) regarding Shun. but i'm sure these are all common sense so forgive the scrubness :V

    -214KK - beginning to see how beautiful this move is. Risk it, its VERY useful, you might lose big drinks, but in the last round it won't matter. but yeah, don't just throw it out of nowhere ofc.
    -214P+K - WOW. great float on counter, lots of options, never forget this exists.

    -the 9P 'pounce' when opp is lying down is tricky, it can make you switch sides and you end up also in a downed state, but unlike normal, you can be HIT otg, it's basically like another stance. Just be psychic and know when and where to roll out when this happens.

    -63214P+G is his best throw, and this is just my observation, most people tend to throw escape neutral and forward throws ;)
    Any other low/high/mid mixups recommended?

    from Oushin (front) - KP2KK
    43+PK P (VERY dirty)
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    okay after a week or two of just playing daily, ranked (hell, i'm STUCK on being Guardian rank, if that matters), player match, room, whatever... i've had some observations (well, at least to me) regarding Shun. but i'm sure these are all common sense so forgive the scrubness :V

    -214KK - beginning to see how beautiful this move is. Risk it, its VERY useful, you might lose big drinks, but in the last round it won't matter. but yeah, don't just throw it out of nowhere ofc.
    -214P+K - WOW. great float on counter, lots of options, never forget this exists.

    -the 9P 'pounce' when opp is lying down is tricky, it can make you switch sides and you end up also in a downed state, but unlike normal, you can be HIT otg, it's basically like another stance. Just be psychic and know when and where to roll out when this happens.

    -63214P+G is his best throw, and this is just my observation, most people tend to throw escape neutral and forward throws ;)



    from Oushin (front) - KP2KK
    43+PK P (VERY dirty)


    Thanks for the input!

    About the 9P pounce. I tried to use it as Average Skyler suggested, but I really suck at hitting people when they are on the ground. I'd rather let them get up and start the guessing game again.

    I already use Oushin a lot :)

    I'll try to introduce 43+PK P in my game. I've seen Fuudo use it a lot in combos.

    About the rank. I hope it doesn't matter cos I've been stuck on Hunter for a while LOL My rank bar has gone up and down a lot. Cannot seem to rank up.
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • Average SkylerAverage Skyler Joined: Posts: 45
    I still enjoy throwing out 214KK in any rounds I can manage since I can P and then 6P+K my drinks back (unless they tech). But then again, usually by then I have them afraid to tech.
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    I like VF5FS so much that I have purchased VF5 (I had it in the past but I traded it) again. I can't wait for it to arrive. Is the VF5 online scene dead? Is Shun very different from his VF5FS counterpart?
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • hibachifinalhibachifinal 後方互換性 Joined: Posts: 1,649
    ^very different. I basically had to relearn shun in FS

    edit- i may be exaggerating, but yeah, he's somewhat different, in a sense that his commands have been switched around a lot... but the fundamentals (i.e. VF2 moves) are in-tact
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    ^very different. I basically had to relearn shun in FS

    edit- i may be exaggerating, but yeah, he's somewhat different, in a sense that his commands have been switched around a lot... but the fundamentals (i.e. VF2 moves) are in-tact

    Thanks for the info! That's what I figured from watching videos. I didn't recognize many moves or noticed differences. For example 6P+K now goes into the drink animation if it hits. In the videos from VF5 it seems you have to PKG to get the drinks (or it looks that way at least)
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • Average SkylerAverage Skyler Joined: Posts: 45
    VF5 was a bit of an easier time. You had a much easier command listing to follow imo, but yeah coming into FS I had to take some Dojo time.
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    VF5 was a bit of an easier time. You had a much easier command listing to follow imo, but yeah coming into FS I had to take some Dojo time.

    In what ways is he easier? I thought VF5 was harder than VF5FS in general.

    PS: On the mixup department, I think we forgot to mention 3PPK
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • Average SkylerAverage Skyler Joined: Posts: 45
    I dont know, personally I just found him to flow better
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    I've been watching the EVO matches and it's been very refreshing. Watching Itazan's style is very different from watching Fuudo's. When I watch Fuudo I think "WOW, there's no way I'd be able to pull that off". Not that I think that I can do what Itazan does, but I think he has a more straightforward approach. It has made me want to use 46PPP and 66K more for example. Kissa's Crazydrunk's, LA Akira's and Sam the seed's matches were cool too.
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • CuzCuz Joined: Posts: 544
    I've been watching the EVO matches and it's been very refreshing. Watching Itabasi's style is very different from watching Fuudo's. When I watch Fuudo I think "WOW, there's no way I'd be able to pull that off". Not that I think that I can do what Itabasi does, but I think he has a more straightforward approach. It has made me want to use 46PPP and 66K more for example. Kissa's Crazydrunk's, LA Akira's and Sam the seed's matches were cool too.

    Don't forget 6p, p (or 6p drink or 6p grab or drink cancel to something or or or). It's a great little setup.
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    Don't forget 6p, p (or 6p drink or 6p grab or drink cancel to something or or or). It's a great little setup.

    Thanks for the input. I'm really loving Shun's cancels into drinking/stances lately.

    Sega Shun tutorial video:

    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • King9999King9999 Joined: Posts: 10,926 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Here, a training vid for you all:

    Switch Friend Code: SW-2722-8799-3295
    PSN/Steam ID/NNID: mmking9999
    Tile Crusher now available on Android & Itch.io!
    "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -Satoru Iwata, 1959-2015
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    LOL Thanks for the vid!

    Beggar Su must have been the inspiration for Shun Di.

    PS: I don't want to go offtopic, but I wonder what other characters are based on. Wolf = Ultimate Warrior?! LOL

    PS2: What are your thoughts on Shun - Backturned stance? I have become very fond of going into backturned with 44P or 44K and then K+G, K+G my opponent.
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
  • DarkOceanUniverseDarkOceanUniverse Joined: Posts: 47
    Any tips on Shun-Di's best moves or things to avoid as a new player? Also would it be worth to purchase the customization pack? I have the game, its been sitting there, but I would like to learn more to master the art of the virtual drunken fist?
  • shuntsurigishuntsurigi 6 month old gamer Joined: Posts: 181
    Throws:
    neutral gives u 2 drinks
    66 Grab gives u 4
    Strikes:
    1P is Great for spacing
    6p is shun's "Elbow"
    4k is evasive and has 2 different follow ups
    1kk is a low high mix up
    2k has long Range
    6k gets u into "1leg" stance
    6p+k gives u 5 drinks
    4k+g is good to run away
    6k+g is an anti low move
    8k+g is a launcher
    Hcf p is a launcher
    66p+k is psycho crusher

    This is what I remember right Now (haven't played in a while) without going into stances
    The piano has been drinking...not me.
2»
Sign In or Register to comment.