The Power of Resets and General Oki Game

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  • grumpy64grumpy64 Joined: Posts: 268
    If this works i wonder what other moves will kill rolls. Just in case this is character specific i'm using ryu with kaz as the dummy.
  • grumpy64grumpy64 Joined: Posts: 268
    here is a vid of the possible tech



  • grumpy64grumpy64 Joined: Posts: 268
    notice how the cr.mp hits hei during the frames between when the roll finishes and when he stands up and recovers from the roll. The timing is tight though a split second to soon and you will whiff to late and they can stand block. I've been working on other moves that can counter the roll in this way but so far CR.mp is the easiest. A perfectly times super will also work but it's a pain in the ass to time and if you mess up well you just wasted 2 bars of meter
  • grumpy64grumpy64 Joined: Posts: 268
    Also hate to ask such a scrub question but what are ryu's hard knockdowns? Well since i'm here what are his unblockable setups in sfxt?
  • BadIntentBadIntent Joined: Posts: 177
    here is a vid of the possible tech


    Just letting you know that only works against the CPU in training mode when they're set to roll. I don't know why they don't block after rolling, but real players can hold down-back and you can see there's absolutely no recovery when rolling. Also, the only untechable knockdowns ryu gets are sweep and EX DP. Counter hit far fierce against standing opponents crumples too if that counts.
  • grumpy64grumpy64 Joined: Posts: 268
    Just letting you know that only works against the CPU in training mode when they're set to roll. I don't know why they don't block after rolling, but real players can hold down-back and you can see there's absolutely no recovery when rolling. Also, the only untechable knockdowns ryu gets are sweep and EX DP. Counter hit far fierce against standing opponents crumples too if that counts.
    i'm a sad panda right now. Perhaps i'm confused on what a hard KD actually is but why is the dummy able to roll after after a sweep? I thought a hard kd eliminated both quick get ups and rolls. Anyway i hope y guys don't mind the vid i figured it was the easiest way for the tactic to be reviewed.
  • grumpy64grumpy64 Joined: Posts: 268
    oh and i was watching a vid on ultra chen's channel and he said sfxt had unblockables in it and yes i know they are technically speaking just really hard to block. I was just wondering how an unblockable set can be possible in a game with quick rolls?
  • BadIntentBadIntent Joined: Posts: 177
    i'm a sad panda right now. Perhaps i'm confused on what a hard KD actually is but why is the dummy able to roll after after a sweep? I thought a hard kd eliminated both quick get ups and rolls. Anyway i hope y guys don't mind the vid i figured it was the easiest way for the tactic to be reviewed.

    Oh, I should have clarified. In this game you can roll after ALL knockdowns. When I say hard knockdowns, I mean the ones where you just can't quick rise from. Can't really provide any insight to unblockables. Though I did play a Hwoarang that charged Dynamite Heel until it got to the EX and no matter if I blocked high or low, I would get hit. Not sure exactly how that worked, maybe a Hwoarang player knows...?
  • grumpy64grumpy64 Joined: Posts: 268
    Oh, I should have clarified. In this game you can roll after ALL knockdowns. When I say hard knockdowns, I mean the ones where you just can't quick rise from. Can't really provide any insight to unblockables. Though I did play a Hwoarang that charged Dynamite Heel until it got to the EX and no matter if I blocked high or low, I would get hit. Not sure exactly how that worked, maybe a Hwoarang player knows...?
    Nah it's my fault for not understanding what a hard KD actually does. Just to make sure that i'm clear you're saying that even if you time a move perfectly to hit the villain before they can stand up from a roll they can still block?
  • BadIntentBadIntent Joined: Posts: 177
    Yep, they can block every time. There's complete invincibility from the time they roll until the first frame that the opponent gains control of their character.
  • SamuelVimesSamuelVimes Joined: Posts: 1,666
    So I just found a 4f safe jump that crosses up against quickstands with a character, so it gives you enough time to do regular oki if they normal recovery and the crossup part gives me a roll reset? How useful is this oki situation? I ask because in the same situation the character traditionally gets around 150 more damage and a hard knockdown. Maybe use it against dpcrazy shotos?

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  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,726
    Oh, I should have clarified. In this game you can roll after ALL knockdowns. When I say hard knockdowns, I mean the ones where you just can't quick rise from. Can't really provide any insight to unblockables. Though I did play a Hwoarang that charged Dynamite Heel until it got to the EX and no matter if I blocked high or low, I would get hit. Not sure exactly how that worked, maybe a Hwoarang player knows...?
    EX Dynamite Heel hits as a cross-up if it's close enough. If you hold forward, you'll often just walk under it, making it whiff.
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  • SamuelVimesSamuelVimes Joined: Posts: 1,666
    Specifically, a well spaced ex heel has two hits, one that crosses up and one that does not, so it can be very hard to block. Just jab him or backdash or walk under or something.

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  • Vulcan HadesVulcan Hades Flea Stance Tea-bagging Joined: Posts: 1,842
    So I just found a 4f safe jump that crosses up against quickstands with a character, so it gives you enough time to do regular oki if they normal recovery and the crossup part gives me a roll reset? How useful is this oki situation? I ask because in the same situation the character traditionally gets around 150 more damage and a hard knockdown. Maybe use it against dpcrazy shotos?

    Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2
    Like I said in another post, quickstand safe jumps are risky because humans don't always quickstand on the exact first frame like the CPU always does. I could slightly delay my quickstand by a few frames and that would be enough to allow me to jump away / beat your safe jump.

    I admit I still use them from time to time as they often work on unsuspecting players. But they're just not that reliable.. especially against educated players that know about delayed quickstand recovery.

    Now for the "is it worth sacrificing damage for it", it depends. I usually don't mind sacrificing around 50-90 damage for a solid setup that could allow me to maintain pressure afterwards. In fact that's what I always try to do with my current team. I find position advantage and oki follow ups to be a lot more important than maximizing damage. That being said, 150 is a lot of damage, it's the difference between 300 and 450 damage for a setup that has very little chance of success. Nothing guarantees you they're going to quickstand and nothing guarantees you that they're not going to delay their recovery so it's a big gamble. And if your opponent has meter, then there's a good chance your safe jump reward could be nullified by a reversal tag cancel or an alpha counter.
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  • SamuelVimesSamuelVimes Joined: Posts: 1,666
    Well the idea is that it would not be a gamble. They are unable to roll except the wrong direction for a good cross jump, and you land with enough time to do whatever you want on normal recovery. Did not know about quickstands being delayed though, that is a right dilemma.

    The setup in question is doing 4 of King's knees then j.mk on their wakeup instead of 3 knees cl.hpxxjaguar bomb.

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  • Fergus2k8Fergus2k8 Let's Rock! Joined: Posts: 2,642
    What I liked to do recently is stand in the middle of where they'll rise and roll, and if they rise, I'll just go up and pressure and if they roll, I take 1-2 steps back and mixup them up, make them confused on what side they'll land on depending on how manysteps I take.

    I especially like this with Poison, after forward throw in the corner, I do backdash, charge fireball, if they roll I cadc backwards and depending on my timing, I'll land on either side and if they stay in corner, I'll have ex fireball and fire it at them and pressure away.
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  • grumpy64grumpy64 Joined: Posts: 268
    Not to sound like a complete noob but how do i do ryu's ex dp standing reset. I saw a vid that says to walk the opponent but what does that mean? I've tried doing the move and holding forward but they can still roll.
  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Permanent Character Crisis Joined: Posts: 22,184
    Not to sound like a complete noob but how do i do ryu's ex dp standing reset. I saw a vid that says to walk the opponent but what does that mean? I've tried doing the move and holding forward but they can still roll.

    Basically, as soon as the EX DP connects, tag in your partner, and have your partner simply walk into the opponent. You should push the opponent out of the remaining hits of the EX DP and they will still be standing.
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  • grumpy64grumpy64 Joined: Posts: 268
    Basically, as soon as the EX DP connects, tag in your partner, and have your partner simply walk into the opponent. You should push the opponent out of the remaining hits of the EX DP and they will still be standing.
    oh so ryu can't do it by himself? I was unaware of that. Ty for clearing that up for me
  • xVxDeMoNiiCxVxxVxDeMoNiiCxVx Joined: Posts: 28
    Thanks Vulcan and to others who help contribute to this. Im a complete noob to this all and this has been a nice help
  • grumpy64grumpy64 Joined: Posts: 268
    i'm just theory fighting and thinking out load but assuming unblockables still exist i wonder if their is anyway to set up one versus a rolling opponent.
  • Maverick Hunter XMaverick Hunter X Great risks, as well as endless possibilities Joined: Posts: 602
    As far as I know, Chun-Li and Juri's neutral jump HK serve as a good oki tool as they are both split kicks that hit both ways, so there is no more need for jumping backwards when predicting a roll. The only problem one has to do is on how to time the jump as jumping too early might make the opponent guess on what you are trying to do.

    Here's one of my match that has been pretty much all-out oki.

  • RayartzRayartz Hosenka Reversal Yo! Joined: Posts: 1,792
    Chun-Li and Juri's neutral jump HK serve as a good oki tool as they are both split kicks that hit both ways

    very good actually, especially when used in jump cancel situations.
    Say you've used Chun's(Cl.St.HK) or Juri's (Cr.Hp) to jump cancel and cross up the opponent. if you find them walking forward or predicting your cross up
    Jump canceling with a Neutral jump and coming down with HK can be extremely 50/50 on which way to block.
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  • rokninroknin Keeps Trying Joined: Posts: 4,925
    very good actually, especially when used in jump cancel situations.
    Say you've used Chun's(Cl.St.HK) or Juri's (Cr.Hp) to jump cancel and cross up the opponent. if you find them walking forward or predicting your cross up
    Jump canceling with a Neutral jump and coming down with HK can be extremely 50/50 on which way to block.

    Huh. Never thought of using it for that (assuming it'd work with Juri's since they're pretty similar j.HK's). :)

    EDIT: Actually, was curious about something. I've been working on a reset with Juri/Law, coming from Law's Shaolin Spin Kicks, tag-canceling into Juri, hitting with cr.HP jump cancelling into j.HP - the J.HP should theoretically hit just a few frames after the last spin kick, but timing seems tight, and I can usually only hit with it once or twice in a match before it gets blocked.

    When it hits, provided I don't drop the combo like I always do for some reason :bluu:... I can get 349+562 for three bars as a punish (252+562 if I confirm Spin Kicks off of a cr.mk in footsies).

    The problem of course... is the timing to make the j.HP as ambiguous as possible, though I can switch it up with j.MK for an easier crossup.

    I'll do a video in the near future, but figured I'd put it out there for some feedback, see if it's too wonky to work as a reset or if there's one better I'm overlooking for that team. :)
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  • rokninroknin Keeps Trying Joined: Posts: 4,925
    ...sorry for the double post in advance.

    Realized I never posted this, just a quick re-stand I did loooooooong ago based on FlyingVe's work:



    Just never could find a way to get that mid-screen. :(
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  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Permanent Character Crisis Joined: Posts: 22,184
    Found something that I think could be very useful for a lot of characters...

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  • RagingRayRagingRay Kickin all day Joined: Posts: 601
    sigh..... so i know this is completely noob of me but this is the ONE term i dont know, what is "oki"?
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  • rokninroknin Keeps Trying Joined: Posts: 4,925
    sigh..... so i know this is completely noob of me but this is the ONE term i dont know, what is "oki"?

    Pretty much the part of the game that takes place when one person is knocked down - your "oki" is what you can do to them to eff up their wake-up.

    I suck at giving out the proper definition so I'm going to link to the SF wiki now cuz' I'm all lazy and stuff. :-p
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  • chaoslimitschaoslimits Death by snu snu Joined: Posts: 1,827
    sigh..... so i know this is completely noob of me but this is the ONE term i dont know, what is "oki"?
    Oki is that bullshit YOU do when you knock people down. Empty jump short and that cheap jump in that hits twice, in particular.

    @kojibeoulve > i want to refund sf4 from my life; give me back all my lost time!
  • RagingRayRagingRay Kickin all day Joined: Posts: 601
    Oki is that bullshit YOU do when you knock people down. Empty jump short and that cheap jump in that hits twice, in particular.
    aaa ok so i was doin oki and not even noticing it lol
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  • Maverick Hunter XMaverick Hunter X Great risks, as well as endless possibilities Joined: Posts: 602
    Found something that I think could be very useful for a lot of characters...

    I'm not sure about Nina's Rolling Dash tech. It looks too risky to use as when I tried it to a non-rolling opponent in a vs CPU match I just get stuffed, or maybe I'm just too slow. o_O

    The other ones are good though. :tup:
  • Vulcan HadesVulcan Hades Flea Stance Tea-bagging Joined: Posts: 1,842
    sigh..... so i know this is completely noob of me but this is the ONE term i dont know, what is "oki"?
    You could've at least made the effort of reading the opening post because I explained it in simple terms. :lame:

    Wake up game is when you are getting up after being knocked down and the things you can do to escape your opponent's pressure/meaties. And the Oki game is when your opponent is getting up and all the things you can do to limit or counter his escape options and maitain pressure.

    EDIT: Added LordWilliam's vid to OP.

    I can't make videos anymore due to some computer problems so I won't be adding new stuff to this thread like I originally planned to. Not in a while at least.
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  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Permanent Character Crisis Joined: Posts: 22,184
    I'm not sure about Nina's Rolling Dash tech. It looks too risky to use as when I tried it to a non-rolling opponent in a vs CPU match I just get stuffed, or maybe I'm just too slow. o_O

    The other ones are good though. :tup:

    Yeah, I don't really know much about Nina. It might be useful for an unblockable set-up with EX Rolling Dash but you probably have much, much better use for meter (especially since the flash makes it very easy to see coming). :)
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  • RagingRayRagingRay Kickin all day Joined: Posts: 601
    You could've at least made the effort of reading the opening post because I explained it in simple terms. :lame:

    Wake up game is when you are getting up after being knocked down and the things you can do to escape your opponent's pressure/meaties. And the Oki game is when your opponent is getting up and all the things you can do to limit or counter his escape options and maitain pressure.

    EDIT: Added LordWilliam's vid to OP.

    I can't make videos anymore due to some computer problems so I won't be adding new stuff to this thread like I originally planned to. Not in a while at least.
    lol well apparantly my main game, i always used oki but i always just called those wake up mixups soo derp my bad
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  • Vulcan HadesVulcan Hades Flea Stance Tea-bagging Joined: Posts: 1,842
    Added UltraDavid's Zangief option-select (auto-correct green hand) to OP.

    He already talked about this a while ago but now it's finally in video so it's easier to see how effective it is:

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  • will08will08 K POP Enforcer Joined: Posts: 240
    sigh..... so i know this is completely noob of me but this is the ONE term i dont know, what is "oki"?
    Its a Japanese word that translates to wake-up. Don't let people fool you thinking that Oki translates to Vortex because its not true. This was a common misconception back in vanilla sf4, Vortex CAN be an Oki tactic but Oki is more broad and can refer to any tricks you do on wake up to apply pressure.
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  • TheoryFighterTheoryFighter Joined: Posts: 68




    Both of these techniques are applicable to multiple characters i just thought these were good examples (plus i play them which helps).

    Edit:

    Another oki video, i should be uploading one last video tonight as well.



    Edit2:

    And here it is.

  • Shooting Star RockmanShooting Star Rockman Jaded Joined: Posts: 1,246
    How effective this reset will be in an actual match? Will a player be able to react in time if I try to pull this off?

  • cg123n1cg123n1 PSN Penguin Joined: Posts: 1,231
    I wouldn't risk a straight up dash like that. Then again, I'm not that confident in myself. XD

    Still, since it's a reset that doesn't start up high, it could just be blocked low. Try alternating between that low kick and her overhead (since it's so fast). That'd be your best bet.
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  • Shooting Star RockmanShooting Star Rockman Jaded Joined: Posts: 1,246
    I wouldn't risk a straight up dash like that. Then again, I'm not that confident in myself. XD

    Still, since it's a reset that doesn't start up high, it could just be blocked low. Try alternating between that low kick and her overhead (since it's so fast). That'd be your best bet.

    Yes, I have Sekku as an option in case it gets blocked. Also, my initial plan in using that is to throw if the combo before the dash are blocked. I also practiced backdashing with it to increase the options.

    I'm actually a bit more confident in using this if it's offline, since I tried it against someone and it kind of surprised him (he's an inexperienced player though. Using this one someone in the same level as Infiltration is outright suicide). Online is another story though. o_O
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