Tired of combos? Spacing and footsies thread. Evading Morrigan + Missiles.

DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep EnergyJoined: Posts: 33,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
Current general topics


Start of round footsies: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/tired-of-combos-spacing-and-footsies-thread.164763/#post-7280340

Anti air dash footsies: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/tired-of-combos-spacing-and-footsies-thread.164763/#post-7279633

Anti rapid slash mix up tech: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/tired-of-combos-spacing-and-footsies-thread.164763/#post-7281280

Anti hidden missiles tools: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/tired-of-combos-spacing-and-footsies-thread-anti-hidden-missiles-assist.164763/page-2#post-7331959


It's still about bopping people (and/or protecting yourself from the bop).



Really if you're tired of combos one would say to probably just play a different game because this game is about putting people in combos after you hit them for the most part. The only real exception being more zone based teams like Morrigan + Missiles or Hawkeye type teams. You have teams like Mag/Dorm/Missiles or C.Viper based teams that can transition between bopping you into a long combo and zoning or spacing but...for the most part touch and combo is how the game works. Which is why a lot of people that talk about the game on the forums usually have a disposition towards just explaining what they do after they touch somebody with a character (which is generally some type of...combo).

It makes the game seem pretty easy and linear, but that's really not all to it at all. You have those that heavily support optimizing combos and what not, but more often that not the people who win tournaments in this game are those that don't flat out optimize their combos. They just optimize their ability to hit you by using their hit boxes to either get in before you can use your hit boxes. It can be as go to simple as run in with bix hit boxes like Wolverine and Wesker or it can be more about flooding up the screen with projectiles so Wolverine and Wesker can no longer put hit boxes on screen without getting hit themselves. The latter being more akin to fireball spacing in other games so you have a path to command your footsies or neutral while they don't.

Players like Fanatiq and others before him are focused on getting that BOP and avoiding your BOP. You don't have to know elongated super optimal combos to do this obviously and it will still be the most important knowledge to have to kill fast and early and keep your momentum. You can always reward yourself with optimal combos providing you have enough execution to not regularly drop them. I'm not saying you have to Viscant execution combos, but the game gives you plenty of ways to kill even if you aren't doing the Magnetic Blast loops after every tiny touch.




One of the other big big things that the neutral and general spacing are supers and assists. Supers and assists both basically allow you to put all types of new "footsies" on the screen and both of them basically allow you to change the frame data of your moves. They also can appear on the screen very fast with not much visual cue (to the point where sometimes you'll have to use audio cues and these are also very important to know for winning.



Standard throws are important to know about in the game as well because they are 1 frame and are built into most people's H normals. This dictates a good bit of the footsies and forces you to be strong at anti airing or using your own characters air H or grounded H to tech them. Although throws are 1 frame you still get 7 frames to tech them. Sometimes during ground throw situations you'll get into a "throw war" where you tech back and forth but you can always stop this by simply jumping and forcing them to whiff an H normal or chicken block their H normal and punish if they don't cancel it. The easiest punish being a throw (they won't be able to tech the throw since they are in recovery frames.




As I add to the thread I'll add a list of all of the characters and hopefully regularly updated info on how to utilize their own footsies and how their footsies work when combined with assists against other characters and teams.

Not to mention info on how each character can deal with the start of the round which is basically the most important part of the round.
Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
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Comments

  • OMG its a duckOMG its a duck Bruh I'm in down bad bruh Joined: Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭✭
    DJ thinks neutral game is important? HOLY SHIT WHAT?!
  • KefKef Joined: Posts: 3,112
    Me against any air dasher in the game at a long distance.

    Dash forward > crouch > whiff a light intentionally > dash back > long range poke

    Works almost everytime. They see you take the initiative to go on the offensive. When you whiff the normal, you give them enough time for them to notice they can now attack, but because it's a light and I was not planning on doing anything else, I just dash back and punish the tri-jump attempt. Dashing forward, waiting, and then dashing backwards just baits a lot of things.

    And if you have a decent assist with vertical range (Ryuenjin, Wolverine's SRK, Shoryuken, Chun's up kicks), anti-air + assist saves your ass a ton of times. Whiff the anti-air, assist covers you, and if your character can combo easily off them (Doom, Dante, Zero with buster, Wolverine, Vergil, Magneto, Felicia etc.), you get profit most of the time. In this game you can't afford to whiff an anti-air if you don't have something like Magneto's s.:l:.

    Baiting air moves works really good for me. Purposely getting underneath Haggar or Dante, then just reacting to the jump and anti-airing from the back (watch out for random back hitboxes though).
    Persona 4:[/B][/I][/U] Main: Akihiko
    If you wanna play some MVC2/Persona/BBCP: PSN: I-Kef-I and KefPringlez

    "Don't be nice, it's Marvel son, the origin of hatred. The game ain't about being nice. If you want to be nice play Tea Party Adventures. They go that shit on DS I heard." - Romneto

    - Credit for image on avatar to Cindysuke on devianArt. http://cindysuke.deviantart.com/
  • KefKef Joined: Posts: 3,112
    Also, forgot one thing.

    Whenever I am home and there's no way to go play with real players, I always play against the CPU in "normal" difficulty. They get hit often enough for me to practice combos and they block/pushblock things enough to know the positions I end up in after blockstrings. Most importantly though, I get to try out my anti-airs and other pokes' spacing and see what they can punish (well, playing Zero, Magneto and Dante, I don't have to worry about anti-airing that much).

    If you are lucky, the CPU may help you discover things you didn't know in the past. I discovered Buster>Lightning was unsafe day 2 in vanilla because a CPU kept punishing me for doing it.
    Persona 4:[/B][/I][/U] Main: Akihiko
    If you wanna play some MVC2/Persona/BBCP: PSN: I-Kef-I and KefPringlez

    "Don't be nice, it's Marvel son, the origin of hatred. The game ain't about being nice. If you want to be nice play Tea Party Adventures. They go that shit on DS I heard." - Romneto

    - Credit for image on avatar to Cindysuke on devianArt. http://cindysuke.deviantart.com/
  • Jack_FrostJack_Frost M.C Joined: Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    tired of getting your ass beat? run away and throw stuff thread
    I gotta dig bick. You that read wrong. That awkward when you read that wrong also. And said 'moment' after awkward
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 7,861 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The only neutral I do in this game is :f::h:
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
    Youtube(random doom TAC help, doom combos, ammy stuff, shuma combos and tech): http://www.youtube.com/user/Clickclakmoo?feature=mhee Danke on shuma gorath: "He who sleeps but shouldn't have costed me 5 dollars."
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The only neutral I do in this game is :f::h:

    Do you play Nova?
    Also, forgot one thing.

    Whenever I am home and there's no way to go play with real players, I always play against the CPU in "normal" difficulty. They get hit often enough for me to practice combos and they block/pushblock things enough to know the positions I end up in after blockstrings. Most importantly though, I get to try out my anti-airs and other pokes' spacing and see what they can punish (well, playing Zero, Magneto and Dante, I don't have to worry about anti-airing that much).

    If you are lucky, the CPU may help you discover things you didn't know in the past. I discovered Buster>Lightning was unsafe day 2 in vanilla because a CPU kept punishing me for doing it.

    When people talk about punishing buster into lightning are they mainly talking about just when Zero shoots the buster out in the open then lightnings after it? Is it just a matter of s.Ling or air throwing in the middle? I'm going to assume it's not as simple if he's doing it on your welcome.




    I know you played a good bit of Marvel 2 so you'll be pretty useful for this thread. What would you consider the main differences in footsies/spacing between 2 and 3? Do you feel the start of round was more oppressive in Marvel 2 or 3 and why? I know for sure people feel that air throws take away from some of the air footsies of Marvel 2, but I think that's why they made ground moves strong for AA to compensate.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • The DukeThe Duke Joined: Posts: 14,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Another good thread. Hope it doesn't fall to the bottom again to people posting junk threads.
  • LegendaryDJLegendaryDJ I'm Done Joined: Posts: 2,771
    What's the best neutral game strategy for characters with slow normals going against characters with fast, long range, and/or all around better normals?
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What's the best neutral game strategy for characters with slow normals going against characters with fast, long range, and/or all around better normals?

    What characters specifically are you using? Particularly the point character.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • LegendaryDJLegendaryDJ I'm Done Joined: Posts: 2,771
    What characters specifically are you using? Particularly the point character.
    Thor fighting against anyone with a sword, ie everyone that's a bad match up for him.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thor fighting against anyone with a sword, ie everyone that's a bad match up for him.

    Well the hardest part is going to be the start of the round which I was going to get into eventually any ways. I'm sure he has one of the slower walk speeds and doesn't have any non special aerial movement options. You'll probably just want to jump forwards and backwards and try to call a fast assist before the round starts while setting up a mighty strike. If they're close enough for an air grab then you'll just want to try to throw or tech throw and go from there.

    Hidden missiles, Lariat or Akuma Tatsu assists could help with the start of the round stuff. Pretty much any team where I have a non super optimal point character I add one of those 3 assists to the point character.

    From what I've heard others say the only thing he has that's close to a normal or footsie is mighty strike. Not sure of the exact priority it has vs. sword normals but I would imagine it would trade at worst. IIRC the fully charged mighty strike gets a point of super armor also.



    I would also ask AceKillah or Duck Strong since they both use or used to use him.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Reposted from an earlier thread.

    Watch Filipino Champ to get an idea for start of round Magnus stuff.



    Basically with Magneto there are some characters start of round where you better either be right next to them getting a throw/H attack hit confirm ready or jump backwards to get ready to air dash out and get something going later after you get away. Remember you can walk or regular jump (characters that can double or triple jump have an advantage here) in whatever direction possible with those options before the round starts so use that for positioning advantage before FIGHT appears on screen. Any character that can double or triple jump has strength here because since they aren't super jumping they can call an assist while being pretty high in the air at the start.

    These are markers for all of the starts to every round. This should help you pin point different ways to start the round. You'll notice that he goes back and forth between moving forward (usually if Infrit moves forward) or moving back them jumping backwards and setting up missiles + projectiles to get spacing set up.

    1st http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=06s

    2nd http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=2m17s

    3rd http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=5m32s

    4th http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=8m12s

    5th http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=10m15s

    6th http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=13m49s

    7th http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=17m30s

    8th http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=20m50s


    The main way to get people into a mix up is to force them to deal with something that's difficult to deal with even when pushblocked. Basically using your magnetic blasts (air u,uf,f+atk) in conjunction with your assists is the best way to get this set up. If you can get them to block a magnetic blast that can set up the advantage you need to have your assist land on them which they can't pushblock you away from and then get mix ups into damage. You're basically just trying to get them pinned down with one or the other or both.




    With hidden missiles this can even work even if you're in a situation where you get hit as long as the missiles fall down.

    http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=_ayCjjteF-w#t=10m21s

    In that he enacts a fuzzy guard situation off the missiles that Infrit's Nova was forced to block. Essentially you do a high/low mix up then immediately j.L after they block the low so their hit box is forced to stay standing. This makes it so essentially the overhead is harder to block since you can enact the overhead much faster than if they were in a typical correct crouched position. This is a very scary mix up since you can't use your crouch box to give you extra time to react to the overhead. Magneto can just throw his foot at you from the top of his air dash and you have to block even though you are holding crouch.




    Landing the first hit in this game is very important even with XF3 because you have more options with XF1+2 characters than XF3. Especially since the welcome mix up you receive from the next character coming in is important towards killing off the team before they can get shit started. Domino effect etc. The start of the round is the most important footsie you'll make in the match so make it count.


    I'd really like to further delve into this with the other cast and the assist options available. I feel like Akuma's Tatsu, Frank's Cart, Doom's Missiles, Haggar's Lariat and Hulk's AA crush are all solid options to have to help you with the start of round footsies without having to use a bunch of movement options.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • xiceman191xiceman191 Joined: Posts: 718 ✭✭✭✭
    what are general strategies for the neutral game when fighting zero. I use nova/spencer/mags and that is my worst matchup like im at a loss for what i need to do in this fight.
    Psn: Datdudeiceman191
    Umvc3: Main team: Nova/Spencer/Mags, Secondary: Dormammu/Strange/Magneto
    twitch.tv/datdudeiceman191
  • Demon DashDemon Dash Hyper Viper Raccoon! Joined: Posts: 5,854 ✭✭✭
    Lol, thread title is "tired of combos?" and then the first post is like "get used to combos." Lol.
    "I'm speculating that it was M.O.D.O.K. that tore my dog's ACL. That crazy maniac was flying his hoverchair DRUNK. DRUNK on POWER. And booze. But mostly on POWER!" - corrosivefrost :rofl:
  • NickRocksNickRocks On the west side I'm screaming FUCK KD Joined: Posts: 14,978 ✭✭✭✭✭
    while i applaud the effort, you really cant teach or practice footsies

    thats something you learn just by playing
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lol, thread title is "tired of combos?" and then the first post is like "get used to combos." Lol.

    That was done intentionally. The whole point is that I'm not necessarily saying that combos aren't a big basis of the game, but if all you know is combos you're not going to go very far in a tournament. The situations that lead to the combos is generally way more important than the combos themselves since if you don't know the situations you won't land any minus getting lucky swings that may win you one match at best.
    while i applaud the effort, you really cant teach or practice footsies

    Well Marvel spacing games can get pretty complicated and with other games the spacings are generally discussed even if it takes a lot of muscle memory and trial and error to do it consistently. There's always that little something that you can learn that you can use that you aren't doing already. Even if you don't have the cleanest spacing game it's good to know all of the potential tools first since especially if you're picking up a new character it may not be immediate for you to figure out all of them.

    Some of it can involve little tech that you won't just find going HAM against people or in training mode also.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • ThatJollyOlBastidThatJollyOlBastid Non-stop Climax! Joined: Posts: 19,346 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My toesies>your footsies.
    "Seth is like McDonald's. You can learn to make the same burger in 2 days as the person who's worked there for 5 years" ~ Dogura
  • Demon DashDemon Dash Hyper Viper Raccoon! Joined: Posts: 5,854 ✭✭✭
    That was done intentionally. The whole point is that I'm not necessarily saying that combos aren't a big basis of the game, but if all you know is combos you're not going to go very far in a tournament. The situations that lead to the combos is generally way more important than the combos themselves since if you don't know the situations you won't land any minus getting lucky swings that may win you one match at best.



    Well Marvel spacing games can get pretty complicated and with other games the spacings are generally discussed even if it takes a lot of muscle memory and trial and error to do it consistently. There's always that little something that you can learn that you can use that you aren't doing already. Even if you don't have the cleanest spacing game it's good to know all of the potential tools first since especially if you're picking up a new character it may not be immediate for you to figure out all of them.

    Some of it can involve little tech that you won't just find going HAM against people or in training mode also.
    It wasn't really a criticism or anything I just found it ammusing lol. This thread should yield some interesting discussion I hope, you are right there is a lot more to be understood than bread and butter.
    "I'm speculating that it was M.O.D.O.K. that tore my dog's ACL. That crazy maniac was flying his hoverchair DRUNK. DRUNK on POWER. And booze. But mostly on POWER!" - corrosivefrost :rofl:
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It wasn't really a criticism or anything I just found it ammusing lol. This thread should yield some interesting discussion I hope, you are right there is a lot more to be understood than bread and butter.

    Yeah I figured as much I just put that out there either way. I'll just put more effort to keep it up than I did the last couple threads and that should take care of that.


    Anti rapid slash mix up pushblock tech.





    Could be some other interesting applications for this.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Joined: Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭✭
    May be the wrong thread for this, but who do you feel are the best keep-away characters with optimal assists?
    [Long Post Incoming] Morrigan is an obvious answer, but I feel Joe is horribly underrated. If you get hit with a charged Voomerang, he can start calling assists and spamming the shit out of charged Voomerangs. Also like Morrigan, when you finally get close to him on the ground, you get hit with an invincible-start up super (Mach Speed) but it ends in a launcher, so you can punish up close mistakes with a TAC infinite/combo. Even his air Six Machine (projectile hyper) has five frames of invincibility. If they manage to get 3 bars and throw out a level 3, Joe can cancel his grounded Voomerang into Mach Speed to blow through most level 3 hypers, including Zero and Magneto's. His best assists for this are Missiles, Vajra, Drones, but I use Strange's beam so I can DHC into a projectile counter out of Mach speed if someone gets enough space to use a beam hyper. Missiles and Drones are VERY good too because of Mach Speed into TAC infinite/combo. I will admit, I am a low-ranked online player and I accidently throw out normal Voomerangs and jabs FAR too often, but it seems almost unstoppable when it gets going properly.
    [quote="just5moreminutes;8594904"][b]"By the end of 2014, the Marvel community will be dead. People will still play it in casuals, since the game has that factor to it, but the release of newer, shiner, readily available anime fighters will rip the spotlight off Marvel entirely."[/b][/quote]
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 7,861 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah I figured as much I just put that out there either way. I'll just put more effort to keep it up than I did the last couple threads and that should take care of that.


    Anti rapid slash mix up pushblock tech.





    Could be some other interesting applications for this.
    [SIZE=13px]the honzo grab is pretty good tech ty for stealing it[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11px]TheWasteofFlesh 15 hours ago 2 pixel-vfl3z5WfW.gif[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11px] [/SIZE]
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
    Youtube(random doom TAC help, doom combos, ammy stuff, shuma combos and tech): http://www.youtube.com/user/Clickclakmoo?feature=mhee Danke on shuma gorath: "He who sleeps but shouldn't have costed me 5 dollars."
  • jetman81jetman81 Joined: Posts: 183
    I like this thread. I feel that spacing/footsies and the neutral game in general are a lot more important to winning than are combos (though those are important too). I also feel like a lot of the most subtle decision-making occurs in this arena, where people will be doing a lot of very specific things that you wouldn't really notice or understand unless you managed to break things down or have someone else explain it for you.
  • Chef BorjanChef Borjan Joined: Posts: 807
    What makes this very difficult to learn of course is the huge character roster.

    Learning the spacing/hitboxes/speed etc of your own moves is only one half of the equation, its almost useless if you aren't also clued up on what your opponent is capable off then you are half blind as to what is the 'right' thing to do.

    I enjoy the challenge though of at least attempting to do it. I think you probably pick these things up faster when you DON'T have characters that can just do whatever the fuck they want 90% of the time... is that spacing or footsies or is that just going HAM? haha.
  • HaikuWarHaikuWar The Best Looking Player EVER Joined: Posts: 2,094
    I actually play zeros neutral game very heavily. I like his space control and footsies. I rather not play zero like a mashy Braindead pelican tbh because zero has an amazing neutral game and space control. Then I lightning Loop haha

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
  • Cee DizzyCee Dizzy The shit I don't like Joined: Posts: 3,405 ✭✭✭
    Some characters, you just have to play Footsies. IE, Frank. His cr. B, st. B, and j. B are good ass normals, even in level 1. They are excellent whiff punishers. It comes out pretty fast, nice range, can confirm it into slide, good air to airs for a full combo. A solid overall knowledge of normals is the best thing in this game, and fighting games in general.
    https://www.facebook.com/FGCCoble <--- Friend me https://twitter.com/CeeDizzy313 <---- Follow UMVC3: Wolverine/Doom/Vergil, Team Nemo SF4: Fei Long, Rolento Injustice: Aquamane, TTT2: AK/Heihachi, Alex/Kuma
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some characters, you just have to play Footsies. IE, Frank. His cr. B, st. B, and j. B are good ass normals, even in level 1. They are excellent whiff punishers. It comes out pretty fast, nice range, can confirm it into slide, good air to airs for a full combo. A solid overall knowledge of normals is the best thing in this game, and fighting games in general.

    Yeah footsies and spacing are especially important in games where getting hit equals dying or generally getting maimed. If you don't have that shit down you're simply going to be getting hit more often than not in tournaments. When you don't get much time to live YOU BETTER know when and where you should place your hit boxes for sure. Why would you NOT wanna know where and when to place shit in a game where your characters are basically one or 2 hit gonners?

    After watching Chrisis I really need to use eye beam a lot more with Viper. Learning stair kick loop helps her extend her air footsie game also and make it easier to confirm off her j.H. M thunder knuckle is also good for getting you past projectiles but the timing is pretty strict and Magneto generally throws disruptahs too fast to do it on reaction. Laser will just take shit out once its active and keep missiles off the screen.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • ChrisisChrisis Follows her path Joined: Posts: 7,592 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Laser is a very strong tool but it's not fast enough to just throw out whenever, I often try to do it when someone is in normal jump height since they'll either shoot over my head if they were fast, or if they get to the ground to do something it will have already activated.
    Isis is something shiny that likes water.
  • FuLLBLeeDFuLLBLeeD fartboner Joined: Posts: 2,129
    Someone please explain Deadpool's neutral game do me. My Deadpool sucks.
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Someone please explain Deadpool's neutral game do me. My Deadpool sucks.

    Probably would help to watch some matches of Rei Chan's Deadpool.




    Obviously just from quick watching it you can tell that at closer ranges his overhead is really strong. Plus on block, stuffs low attacks, hits overhead, crosses up shorter people when they are crouching. His teleports are the hardest to punish probably in the entire game. You probably don't have to be afraid to randomly do one since IMO they're the only ones that are almost impossible to punish on reaction when done raw. Just make sure you don't do a 3rd one without a reason or a set up so it stays safe. You can also now gun into teleport to safely cover your teleport without an assist.

    His s.L is really strong also. Great hit box and will hit even shorter people like Wesker are forced to block it when crouching making it a great all purpose poke tool.

    In general Deadpool seems to be about confusing your opponent in the neutral. Laming them out for a while till they get antsy then use your ports to rush in and set up s.L's and overheads.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • HaikuWarHaikuWar The Best Looking Player EVER Joined: Posts: 2,094
    Btw if people have zero neutral game questions Always down to help.

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  • KefKef Joined: Posts: 3,112
    Why talk about character specific spacing? I though this thread was more general.
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why talk about character specific spacing? I though this thread was more general.

    Can do both really. I didn't really specify one way or the other. It's just people are very specific about who they play in this game so inevitably you're going to get more character specific stuff. Especially since a lot of the characters use their hit boxes pretty differently from one another.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • ErenEren Old Man SRK Joined: Posts: 13,388 mod
    Some characters, you just have to play Footsies. IE, Frank. His cr. B, st. B, and j. B are good ass normals, even in level 1. They are excellent whiff punishers. It comes out pretty fast, nice range, can confirm it into slide, good air to airs for a full combo. A solid overall knowledge of normals is the best thing in this game, and fighting games in general.

    Oh man I was fighting a point frank today and this crossed my mind so much, any touch from my opponents setup pretty much led to a LV4 Frank w/out meter spend.
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  • Cee DizzyCee Dizzy The shit I don't like Joined: Posts: 3,405 ✭✭✭
    Just some overall Fighting Game knowledge. Go into training mode and find out how far everything hits and try to play footsies with the computer on very hard. This actually helped me with my hit confirms with several of my characters. It helped me learn spacing and footsies in Street Fighter also.

    Character specific stuff with Captain America, if you are 3/4 screen away from your opponent and you kara-cartwheel (H xxx Cartwheel), you get an ambigious cross up. Paired with arrows or a beam, the opponent is forced to guess or else they can say good-bye to their character. At half screen, opponent cannot throw fireballs or whiff any normals, or else they get charging star'd to death. Cap's normals are either all ass or unsafe. I swear you can mash grab on cr. L (when up close) and you will get grabbed. So your main way of playing footsies is with air shield slashes and far L buttons (st. L, cr. L). All lead to full combos.

    Yeah thats just some stuff I remember on the top of my head. *shrug*
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  • HaikuWarHaikuWar The Best Looking Player EVER Joined: Posts: 2,094
    I only feel safe in this thread , everytime I bring up neutral game in this zero forums a bunch of random go " lol what's neutral game I play Zero "... :(

    Anyways I feel like Akuma has amazing neutral game tools.

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  • Smoothjazz101Smoothjazz101 Joined: Posts: 1,370 ✭✭✭✭
    Somebody should post Fanatiq's vid about why he doesn't use Magnetic Blast, as that part is good but he also goes on to explain a few other neutral game tricks he does.

    A general thing; if you have a character with flight you get air grab/flight psuedo option selects where you can jump for an air grab and then activate flight to prevent your character from falling while throwing out an unsafe normal.
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  • KefKef Joined: Posts: 3,112
    Common beam vs beam fight (Doom vs Magneto). I see Champ doing this all the time:

    Jump back with Doom and when you see they disruptor, air dash down and immediately Plasma Beam so you get the advantage in the beam fight.
    Persona 4:[/B][/I][/U] Main: Akihiko
    If you wanna play some MVC2/Persona/BBCP: PSN: I-Kef-I and KefPringlez

    "Don't be nice, it's Marvel son, the origin of hatred. The game ain't about being nice. If you want to be nice play Tea Party Adventures. They go that shit on DS I heard." - Romneto

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  • PatakaReadaPatakaReada Just a Boy, hungry for love Joined: Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭
    I only feel safe in this thread , everytime I bring up neutral game in this zero forums a bunch of random go " lol what's neutral game I play Zero "... :(

    Anyways I feel like Akuma has amazing neutral game tools.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

    Whats your general approach in the match as zero? You already mentioned you didn't go ham right away so I'd like to hear.
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  • AceKillahAceKillah EXS of Greed Joined: Posts: 15,372 ✭✭✭✭
    Can I talk about neutral in this thread?
    Took the litmus paper test, said I'm based.
  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 7,861 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can I talk about neutral in this thread?
    You must be 73 or older to talk about neutral otherwise you don't know enough old man stuff
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  • The DukeThe Duke Joined: Posts: 14,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Please don't make a mockery of something as serious as video games
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Common beam vs beam fight (Doom vs Magneto). I see Champ doing this all the time:

    Jump back with Doom and when you see they disruptor, air dash down and immediately Plasma Beam so you get the advantage in the beam fight.

    If you're close enough while still pretty up in the air you could air plasma beam before landing also.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • leafcolonelleafcolonel Apprentice of Magnetism Joined: Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭
    Or you can simply block disruptor and punish it or win the projectile war because its -20 on block. Disruptor was designed to snipe your projectile before it starts up, winning by speed rather than raw firepower. TK H Disruptor is so good at assist sniping though.
  • TrancendTrancend 0 skills for Zero kills Joined: Posts: 137
    while i applaud the effort, you really cant teach or practice footsies

    thats something you learn just by playing
    Getting it down through practice is no doubt the only way to hone the skill, but you must be made aware of it before that can happen.

    DevilJin just shined some brilliant light on this subject for me, and will no-doubt help my game tons.
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  • HaikuWarHaikuWar The Best Looking Player EVER Joined: Posts: 2,094
    Whats your general approach in the match as zero? You already mentioned you didn't go ham right away so I'd like to hear.

    Im working on a write up right now. The future of zero is in spacing/neutral game/Fundamentals.

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  • TrancendTrancend 0 skills for Zero kills Joined: Posts: 137
    I'm trying to "stick it out" with Iron Man, and he is very well equipped for mid range poking / zoning / footsies,
    though I find it very hard to convert with him, and I'm always getting snagged air dashing.

    So, my question is, can Iron Man convert ranged footsie hits or is he only designed to combo if the opponent happens to
    break through his zoning ?

    Also, how effective are flight cancelled air-dashes for blocking (can blocking happen fast enough, or should a commitment just be made when going in and hoping for the best). It will take considerable more time for me to work in flight-canceling into ever aspect of his mobility is why I ask (I can do it in a few specific situations, but not anytime on a whim).

    Thanks, these posts are really insightful.
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  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 Quantum Theorist. Liquid Dubstep Energy Joined: Posts: 33,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm trying to "stick it out" with Iron Man, and he is very well equipped for mid range poking / zoning / footsies,
    though I find it very hard to convert with him, and I'm always getting snagged air dashing.

    So, my question is, can Iron Man convert ranged footsie hits or is he only designed to combo if the opponent happens to
    break through his zoning ?

    Also, how effective are flight cancelled air-dashes for blocking (can blocking happen fast enough, or should a commitment just be made when going in and hoping for the best). It will take considerable more time for me to work in flight-canceling into ever aspect of his mobility is why I ask (I can do it in a few specific situations, but not anytime on a whim).

    Thanks, these posts are really insightful.

    I would check the Iron Man forums to see if they are coming up with anything new for conversions. From what I played of him though there's definitely a certain range you have to be in to reliably combo off of a hit. He's obviously designed around his repulsor blast which is an anti mix up and space control tool. With that...it's best to put him first or preferably second so you have an assist backing up the repulsor blast to keep your zone going until you force them to go in which should set up a hit more easily.

    Flight cancelling is a requirement to block certain things especially supers while moving. I believe you can block pretty much first frame after a flight cancel so it shouldn't be that big of a deal to do.

    I think Iron Man on point with an assist will be one of the better anti hidden missile characters so we'll see how it all pans out as hidden missiles becomes more prominent. Point character and THC tools are more important for dealing with the assist than other assists are IMO.
    Ready for first KI at Evo 2k14 SRK'S DAY ONE XBOX ONE/KILLER INSTINCT OWNERS: DevilJin01(GLACIUS, FULGORE, SADIRA maybe Orchid), Purbeast, Koop, Rcaido, FlyingVe, Eiroheart, Onyx, Mayonaka, Lulipe, iluspook, Ultimaotaku, Rekano, Churrasco, DIEK STIEKEM ------- XBL: TheoryJin PSN: PervyJin01
  • HaikuWarHaikuWar The Best Looking Player EVER Joined: Posts: 2,094
    I feel like the future of Marvel is in neutral game, resets, footsie and fundamentals. We still are in an era of "Derp" but soon we will progress once everyone learns the game in more depth. We already have a motion towards that and it's evident that high level people are forcing longer neutral game with doom missiles.

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  • RokmodeRokmode preppy asked me to change my title rip meaty mud flap Joined: Posts: 7,861 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I feel like the future of Marvel is in neutral game, resets, footsie and fundamentals. We still are in an era of "Derp" but soon we will progress once everyone learns the game in more depth. We already have a motion towards that and it's evident that high level people are forcing longer neutral game with doom missiles.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
    Nope, didn't you get the memo? This game is completely random. In 10 years, we will have finally adjusted to the game and begin rolling dice to see who wins the match. Evolution will speed up it's natural processes, and every marvel player will soon be evolved into the magnificent bird known as the pelican.
    THIS WEBSITE SUCKS GIANT HORSE @#$@#$@!@$
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  • The DukeThe Duke Joined: Posts: 14,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I still don't know what fundamentals are if neutral game and footsies are not part of it.
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