What are footsies, precisely?

WickedBobWickedBob Dumb MemberJoined: Posts: 215
Just using pokes at mid range or some other things ? I heard a lot this term but it seems even most people using this word don't know what it is.

And please, don't give me the link to the Footsie's guide.

Comments

  • otoriotori RTSD Joined: Posts: 6,179
    Hard to define really, maybe i'd put it as a battle for space. You're trying to control a certain area of the screen with your normals and the opponent is doing the same.

    Definetly not as simple as "just using pokes", there's a huge deal of spacing going on because you want your moves to connect while making the opponent's wiff.
  • otoriotori RTSD Joined: Posts: 6,179
    Man come on, i know you explicity said you don't want the link to the footsie's guide, but it has a very extensive section trying to define footsies. It's an elusive concept and it's really hard to put into one sentence. At least read up chapter 1 http://sonichurricane.com/?p=691
  • Syxx573Syxx573 Jo Mama Joined: Posts: 8,963
    Originally it was defined as setting up your opponent to whiff and then punishing it but with all the scrubs on srk using the term to try to sound smart, who the fuck know what the term means now.
  • BullDancerBullDancer Mentos, The Freshmaker Joined: Posts: 9,464
    Ground game....... that's like the literal definition of footsies.......

    All the mind games and shit that comes with it.......
    "Rock abandoned Neesa there like you were gonna abandon your son and wife and live alone with your TV"~Akuma-HAX
  • WickedBobWickedBob Dumb Member Joined: Posts: 215
    To be honest, i already read all chapters and if i'm right here, footsies include a lot of things on fighting games.

    Things like spacing, baiting, throwing, whiff punish, corner pressing, jumping's situations etc... it's so huge, not just the ground game damn.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,718
    Just using pokes at mid range or some other things ? I heard a lot this term but it seems even most people using this word don't know what it is.

    And please, don't give me the link to the Footsie's guide.

    So, you know about the Footsies Handbook, and yet you still don't know what footsies are? It very clearly defines it in the opening sentences.

    http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702

    If you can't comprehend that, then I doubt you're going to comprehend anything we'll be saying.

    To be honest, i already read all chapters and if i'm right here, footsies include a lot of things on fighting games.

    Things like spacing, baiting, throwing, whiff punish, corner pressing, jumping's situations etc... it's so huge, not just the ground game damn.

    That's the whole point. Footsies isn't a simple concept, nor can it be defined and described by a paragraph, it encompasses the entire idea of 'controlling space', which is EVERYTHING in fighting games.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,003 mod
    I believe the term came about because, back in the day, you'd see players fishing for hits of crouching shorts or forwards, trying to get a hit confirm or a counterpoke.
  • IsleySilverKingIsleySilverKing Joined: Posts: 156
    You know back in middle school, you're with that girl you like... you both like each other aaand.... say you both are sitting around at a table eating lunch with a group of disposable "friends" who're all caught up yapping about the typical boring crap ... neither you nor girl give a damn about them but she's sitting across from you so a handjob isn't practical ... ssoooo that's when you bust out the footsies.
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 6,398
    Personally I feel that the term "footsies" is too confusing for newcomers, and perhaps even counter-productive when it comes to learning how to play.

    It's easier to understand when you break it down into various concepts,

    eg.
    Poking
    Spacing yourself
    Whiff punishment
    Baiting
    etc...

    Once you have a basic understanding of these concepts, it's easier to understand how to use them to compliment each other in your favour.

    For example, if you understand how to space yourself against an opponent, you can dance around the edge of their maximum poke distance in order to bait a move that you can whiff punish. That is a very basic, but common footsie scenario.
  • DimeDime Wasting time Joined: Posts: 10,913
    Just using pokes at mid range or some other things ? I heard a lot this term but it seems even most people using this word don't know what it is.

    And please, don't give me the link to the Footsie's guide.



    go to 1:18:35 for a footsies exhibition. trying to find examples of footsies on newschool games is bothersome, and mostly doesnt apply like it does in the oldshcool... well most all concepts still apply, its just that they apply differently.



    for a basic statement of what footsies is.. it is simply moving in and out of yours and your opponents optimal poke ranges while trying to make them wiff so you can punish and simultaneously trying to walk in and poke without wiffing... it gets more complicated... but... watch the vid.


    -dime
    Gettin' my derp on.
  • NegativeEdgeNegativeEdge Not a G Joined: Posts: 152
    Poking and spacing, I'd say SFXT is a good game to learn footsies.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,718
    Poking and spacing, I'd say SFXT is a good game to learn footsies.

    Initially that may be the case, but really, SFxT is more about hit confirming than footsies. Throw out any poke, option-select it into the next higher attack button, hit confirm into target combo.

    Better idea would be to play SF4 and pick a fundamentally rooted character: Ryu, Guile, Chun, Balrog, etc.

    Also, everything that everyone has posted on here is clearly defined w/ video examples in the Footsies Handbook. If you can't be bothered to read that while engaging a small portion of your brain, you're not going to get it by reading these posts here.
  • NegativeEdgeNegativeEdge Not a G Joined: Posts: 152
    Initially that may be the case, but really, SFxT is more about hit confirming than footsies. Throw out any poke, option-select it into the next higher attack button, hit confirm into target combo.

    Better idea would be to play SF4 and pick a fundamentally rooted character: Ryu, Guile, Chun, Balrog, etc.
    You would think, but the higher reward to a well placed poke in XT as you described is much more conducive to learning than some minimal damage in 4.

    A good footsie game is rewarded 5 fold in xtekken and less wakeup guessing due to roll mean more chances at landing said footsies.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,718
    You would think, but the higher reward to a well placed poke in XT as you described is much more conducive to learning than some minimal damage in 4.

    A good footsie game is rewarded 5 fold in xtekken and less wakeup guessing due to roll mean more chances at landing said footsies.

    That's one way to look at it. But damage awarded for a good poke doesn't necessarily mean that you'll become better at footsies, it just means you have to make fewer pokes in order to win a round/game. You can learn just as much from a footsies-based match in SF4 with a little more freedom to take risks and be creative with baits, feints, counter pokes, whiff punishes, etc. Not to mention that jumping in SFxT can be punished by a variety of characters with the lenient juggle system, which is highly damaging, whereas a jump in SF4 usually leads to minimal damage with the exception of ultras.
  • 9898989898989898 98 Member Joined: Posts: 148
    I believe the term came about because, back in the day, you'd see players fishing for hits of crouching shorts or forwards, trying to get a hit confirm or a counterpoke.

    "back in the day" hit confirms off crouching shorts and forwards didnt exist
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,718
    "back in the day" hit confirms off crouching shorts and forwards didnt exist

    Hit confirms off cr.shorts and cr.forwards have existed since SF2. They existed in the Alpha series, and they existed in 3s.
  • 9898989898989898 98 Member Joined: Posts: 148
    Hit confirms off cr.shorts and cr.forwards have existed since SF2. They existed in the Alpha series, and they existed in 3s.

    you cannot confirm a cr.forward in SF2 or the Alphas. the cancel window simply isn't big enough. yeah there are some confirms off cr.shorts in SF2 but hardly as widespread as they would become in later games.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,718
    you cannot confirm a cr.forward in SF2 or the Alphas. the cancel window simply isn't big enough. yeah there are some confirms off cr.shorts in SF2 but hardly as widespread as they would become in later games.

    You can confirm off a meaty cr.forward, into another cr.forward xx fireball. Technically you can go for the cross-up, do a cr.forward, and from there determine whether you want to do an uppercut, fireball, spin kick. Although you could also define that as using a cross-up attack for a hit confirm, either way, both attacks play a part.

    You can still hit confirm cr.shorts with Ken, Ryu, and Guile. Same goes for hit confirm jabs with Deejay and Balrog.

    Of course 3s has both hit confirms off cr.forward and shorts and jabs, and in Alpha, quite a lot of the cast can confirm combos off of cr.shorts.
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