So why are you playing as Hakan?

Bakkd

This is by no means a troll thread. I am just curious why you're using the undeniably worst character in the game?

Hakan has:
No proper AA ( The likelyhood that you actually AA properly without trading is minimum)
No invul moves (EX-slide isn't a proper invul move since almost everything and their mothers beat it. If anything you can just mash grab and win over it.
No moves that moves his hitbox .
No safe specials
Relies on a crutch to be viable (The oil is a crutch.)

So why are you maining him?

I'm maining him because he's just so god damn dashing and the extra challenge is fun too.

EyePawd

Oh, good, this again.

I could easily argue against every point, quite well, but instead I will reference a hilarious-yet-overused meme.

/notsureifserious

Bakkd

EyePawd, post: 7283468, member: 31806 wrote:

Oh, good, this again.

I could easily argue against every point, quite well, but instead I will reference a hilarious-yet-overused meme.

/notsureifserious

But I am! As I said, I'm not trying to troll or anything like that. I should've stated that this is of course my own opinion and nothing else. So please, do argue against me, I'm curious on what you have to say. And I do have a lot of fun playing as Hakan, otherwise I wouldn't be playing as him, no? (And I'm well aware that you can parry with him so no need to point that out.)

yes

hakan is op scrub, don't use em as an excuse to lose.

lvl above seth

Bakkd

yes, post: 7283647, member: 56544 wrote:

hakan is op scrub, don't use em as an excuse to lose.

lvl above seth

...I see.

yes

what? this thread isn't about saying completely moronic things?

besides the excuse to lose part, i believe im on topic.

Bakkd

I do believe that the topic itself is a question so I'd say that its about said topic and nothing else. Voice your opinion about the topic, why are you playing as Hakan?

Bakkd

yes, post: 7283659, member: 56544 wrote:

what? this thread isn't about saying completely moronic things?

besides the excuse to lose part, i believe im on topic.

No, you're not. You didn't state why you're playing as Hakan.

Brett

"Undeniably worst character in the game"? Maybe when you play him with this mindset that he has all those problems, none of which I think are true.

-No proper AA ( The likelyhood that you actually AA properly without trading is minimum)
I have no idea where you get this idea. Just because he doesn't have a single button that always works for AA or an invincible DP doesn't mean he doesn't have an anti-air. s.lp, f.lp, s.mp, s.hp are all excellent anti-air, you just have to know which to use and have good reaction time. f.lp is amazing anti-air and doesn't even require fast reactions. Even better than all those other options is to just parry jump ins.

-No invul moves (EX-slide isn't a proper invul move since almost everything and their mothers beat it. If anything you can just mash grab and win over it.
Why do you need an invulnerable move to be non-bottom tier? You even acknowledge that ex.rocket is invulnerable so I don't understand this argument to begin with. Are you assuming that if you can't mash out invincible reversal that you can FADC to make safe,you aren't good?

-No moves that moves his hitbox .
Does he not have f.mp anymore? Once again, I don't see how not having this makes him a bad character.

-No safe specials
He has safe slides, and you always have the ability to FADC a slide. I don't see how this is a problem unless you're doing hail mary full screen slides or going into slide after a blocked s.lp(n) ~ f.lk string.

-Relies on a crutch to be viable (The oil is a crutch.)
Why is this a "crutch"? He's much better when he is oiled, but it's not like you simply cannot win once you run out. There's no reason why you should not practice to have a dry-game. Even then, you always have ex.oil xx GP. It's exactly what he needed back in super, so you shouldn't be complaining saying that it is impossible to get oil once you run out.

Back on topic: I play Hakan because he's the only character in SF4 that actually interests me. He's a grappler that plays a completely different style than any other character before in SF. I like the idea of having a controllable and temporary buff. He has two different types of command throws, an air throw, command normals for every button, ability to put on a lot of pressure, doesn't get zoned by fireballs, a2a juggle into knockdown, and crazy oki game. He's fun to play and has so many options to use. If he entered the game in the condition he is now, no one would say he is the worst character in the game. If his character model was something like Urien from sf3 and he didn't have the red skin and goofy sounds, no one would consider him a joke character.

Bakkd

Brett, post: 7283903, member: 11622 wrote:

"Undeniably worst character in the game"? Maybe when you play him with this mindset that he has all those problems, none of which I think are true.

-No proper AA ( The likelyhood that you actually AA properly without trading is minimum)
I have no idea where you get this idea. Just because he doesn't have a single button that always works for AA or an invincible DP doesn't mean he doesn't have an anti-air. s.lp, f.lp, s.mp, s.hp are all excellent anti-air, you just have to know which to use and have good reaction time. f.lp is amazing anti-air and doesn't even require fast reactions. Even better than all those other options is to just parry jump ins.

True, there are options, but they get beat by a lot of things or trade. I did mention parrying.

-No invul moves (EX-slide isn't a proper invul move since almost everything and their mothers beat it. If anything you can just mash grab and win over it.
Why do you need an invulnerable move to be non-bottom tier? You even acknowledge that ex.rocket is invulnerable so I don't understand this argument to begin with. Are you assuming that if you can't mash out invincible reversal that you can FADC to make safe,you aren't good?

No, I'm saying that not having a get out of jail card is really damn sad and the closest thing you have is something that gets beat by plenty of things.

-No moves that moves his hitbox .
Does he not have f.mp anymore? Once again, I don't see how not having this makes him a bad character.

I should've rewritten this point. I'm talking about how certain characters have normals that lower or alters your hitbox, making it possible to dodge jump ins. Hakan doesn't have anything like this.

-No safe specials
He has safe slides, and you always have the ability to FADC a slide. I don't see how this is a problem unless you're doing hail mary full screen slides or going into slide after a blocked s.lp(n) ~ f.lk string.

His slide becomes special because the player makes it safe by spacing correctly. FADC'ing is always an option but again, its the player that makes it safe by doing so. While other characters can just blurt out special after special with no fear of getting punished.

-Relies on a crutch to be viable (The oil is a crutch.)
Why is this a "crutch"? He's much better when he is oiled, but it's not like you simply cannot win once you run out. There's no reason why you should not practice to have a dry-game. Even then, you always have ex.oil xx GP. It's exactly what he needed back in super, so you shouldn't be complaining saying that it is impossible to get oil once you run out.

Because he's the only character in the game that relies on oil to be viable. Without oil he loses a lot of his options. That's a crutch in my opinion. (I did main Hakan in super, dante-must-die-difficulty.)

Back on topic: I play Hakan because he's the only character in SF4 that actually interests me. He's a grappler that plays a completely different style than any other character before in SF. I like the idea of having a controllable and temporary buff. He has two different types of command throws, an air throw, command normals for every button, ability to put on a lot of pressure, doesn't get zoned by fireballs, a2a juggle into knockdown, and crazy oki game. He's fun to play and has so many options to use. If he entered the game in the condition he is now, and if he didn't have red skin, no one could consider him a joke character and no one would say he is the worst character in the game.

I still believe that regardless of how and when they add Hakan, he'd still be considered a bad character if not the worst. All of the options and pressure etctc are lost once you run out of oil. I don't even know how many times I've lost because the oil ran out at the worst of times.

However, I really do enjoy playing Hakan and as you've said, he's unique and incredibly fun to play once you get the hang of how to play him.

SynKyller

sigh.... I dont play Hakan. I am Hakan.

Family man, Successful business man, has a gorgeous wife and is a competitive warrior. LES GO!

Bakkd

SynKyller, post: 7283983, member: 8969 wrote:

sigh.... I dont play Hakan. I am Hakan.

Family man, Successful business man, has a gorgeous wife and is a competitive warrior. LES GO!

Reppin' dat virgin oil, are we?

EyePawd

Bakkd, post: 7283945, member: 59935 wrote:

I still believe that regardless of how and when they add Hakan, he'd still be considered a bad character if not the worst. All of the options and pressure etctc are lost once you run out of oil. I don't even know how many times I've lost because the oil ran out at the worst of times.

However, I really do enjoy playing Hakan and as you've said, he's unique and incredibly fun to play once you get the hang of how to play him.

This isn't true at all. I'm not sure you've ever played against a competent Hakan.

First off, the oil isn't a "crutch". It's a legitimate part of his game, and with the changes in 2012, it's no longer a matter of WHEN you run out of oil like in Super and AE. I've had plenty of matches where I've managed to stay oiled the entire time. So, let's stop that nonsense right there.

Secondly...And because yes, you are trolling but I've been looking to get into an argument I can't possibly lose....

He loses very little from not being oiled. In fact, considering how little most know Hakan, I would say that playing him un-oiled can throw an opponent off even more. Why? Because, playing against Hakan requires knowing two sets of moves, basically. It's easier to think of oiled and non-oiled as different stances, ala Gen.

I've seen opponents misjudge distance, range, and maneuverability many times because they expected one thing and got another. For instance, training a fireball-type character to expect the distance that comes along with an oiled HP slide, and while un-oiled using that same slide to come up just short, popping ultra one as the frame ends, and catching them with the throw.

Running out of oil doesn't change the fact that Hakan has THE nastiest knockdown/wake-up shenanigans in the game. I would put money on it. Not too many people can deal with the diminishing returns guessing game that is what a Hakan player CAN do to an opponent after a knockdown.

Finally, you're daft if you think he's the worst character in the game. Point in fact, he has favorable match-ups against some of the games more niche characters. T-Hawk certainly can't deal with Dhalsim the way Hakan can. Hondas are never going to get around a good zoning game the way Hakan can break through it without an oily sweat.

I could go on breaking down your awful argument of "HE SUCKS BECAUSE I SUCK AMIRITE?".

Bakkd

EyePawd, post: 7284004, member: 31806 wrote:

Secondly...And because yes, you are trolling but I've been looking to get into an argument I can't possibly lose....

He loses very little from not being oiled. In fact, considering how little most know Hakan, I would say that playing him un-oiled can throw an opponent off even more. Why? Because, playing against Hakan requires knowing two sets of moves, basically. It's easier to think of oiled and non-oiled as different stances, ala Gen.

I've seen opponents misjudge distance, range, and maneuverability many times because they expected one thing and got another. For instance, training a fireball-type character to expect the distance that comes along with an oiled HP slide, and while un-oiled using that same slide to come up just short, popping ultra one as the frame ends, and catching them with the throw.

Running out of oil doesn't change the fact that Hakan has THE nastiest knockdown/wake-up shenanigans in the game. I would put money on it. Not too many people can deal with the diminishing returns guessing game that is what a Hakan player CAN do to an opponent after a knockdown.

Finally, you're daft if you think he's the worst character in the game. Point in fact, he has favorable match-ups against some of the games more niche characters. T-Hawk certainly can't deal with Dhalsim the way Hakan can. Hondas are never going to get around a good zoning game the way Hakan can break through it without an oily sweat.

I could go on breaking down your awful argument of "HE SUCKS BECAUSE I SUCK AMIRITE?".

Yes, of course, I state my opinions and thus I must be trolling. Either you deal with the fact that we don't share the same opinion or you just leave it be. How do you know that I'm bad? Have you played me? I'm not jumping on anyone, I'm simply stating my freakin' opinions. What the hell is the matter with you people? Jesus christ.

I've played against Furkan and won against him several times, so yes, I have played against competent Hakan players. Yes, I know about the difference in slides, and I'm too have caught players off-guard by doing so. It doesn't change the fact that a lot of his options are available as long as you have oil. His knockdown/wake-up shenanigans can be easily dealt by doing a safe special, ie Blanka can just do lightning on wake-up.

And because he has a couple of favorable match-ups he suddenly isn't bad? You can't base whether Hakan is good or not on a few matchups, and you mentioned two. Two good matchups. Compare that to the rest of the cast.

Seriously, how hard is it to accept other opinions? Instead for trying to have discussion everyone seems to want to act like children. Come on, man.

Pritz

Bakkd, post: 7283945, member: 59935 wrote:

[SIZE=12px]I should've rewritten this point. I'm talking about how certain characters have normals that lower or alters your hitbox, making it possible to dodge jump ins. Hakan doesn't have anything like this.[/SIZE]

You've never used c.HK to do this?

Bakkd

Pritz, post: 7284112, member: 10595 wrote:

You've never used c.HK to do this?

I've tried several times but it hasn't really payed off. But maybe I'm just terrible at timing it, does it work well for you?

LB

FYI, being wrong and believing in a fairy tale doesn't make it trolling.

if that was true, 90% of religious people would be 'trolls'.

bakkd: it's fine to have an opinion. however, when presented with facts that challenge the opinion, you should change your mind. if you don't, by default that makes you either (1) a troll, (2) a close-minded person, and/or (3) not intelligent enough to understand

as an aside, people shouldn't state opinions as facts, because they aren't the same. at all.

Bakkd

LB, post: 7284169, member: 177 wrote:

FYI, being wrong and believing in a fairy tale doesn't make it trolling.

if that was true, 90% of religious people would be 'trolls'.

bakkd: it's fine to have an opinion. however, when presented with facts that challenge the opinion, you should change your mind. if you don't, by default that makes you either (1) a troll, (2) a close-minded person, and/or (3) not intelligent enough to understand

you shouldn't state your opinions as facts, because they aren't.

I never said that my opinions = fact. I should've mentioned that in the opening post too. And so far I haven't been proven wrong. I've gotten bashed a few times thou.

yes

waiiiiit, i just realized something, hes RIGHT! hakans the worst..

whats the end game here? its clearly not about why we picked haakan anymore.

mowr

LB, post: 7284169, member: 177 wrote:

FYI, being wrong and believing in a fairy tale doesn't make it trolling.

if that was true, 90% of religious people would be 'trolls'.

A trolling post about trolling. Nice.

Bakkd

yes, post: 7288000, member: 56544 wrote:

waiiiiit, i just realized something, hes RIGHT! hakans the worst..

whats the end game here? its clearly not about why we picked haakan anymore.

It was supposed to be that but since people seem to have a hard time about other opinions, it didn't go well. Seriously, what is this place, /v/?

jiuplayer

I play with Hakan because he is hard to master, I play with him since last year and every time Hakan has another tool to apply in my gameplay, and that make me really excited. And the quantity of unique stuffes for every matchup is just insane, and there is another thing; the hype of the people when you do well with him, this is pretty nice.^^

About if he is a good character, after a lot of time thinking about it I came up that he is not good or bad, he is Hakan, he is unique and that is why I play with him.^^

Bakkd

jiuplayer, post: 7288878, member: 55588 wrote:

I play with Hakan because he is hard to master, I play with him since last year and every time Hakan has another tool to apply in my gameplay, and that make me really excited. And the quantity of unique stuffes for every matchup is just insane, and there is another thing; the hype of the people when you do well with him, this is pretty nice.^^

About if he is a good character, after a lot of time thinking about it I came up that he is not good or bad, he is Hakan, he is unique and that is why I play with him.^^

Well said, young man! I completely agree with the hype factor, I've been playing at my friends' place and they seriously go apeshit. Feels really good, especially if you win against Dhalsim or Seth, hole shet.

shoryukid

I'm a dirty copycat and like how crazy Infiltration makes Hakan look.

I'm a sakura main but am trying to pick up Hakan for fun.

Its a little jarring given, that to me, playing Hakan is like multitasking. Not only am i trying to play SF, but i'm playing an oiling up mini-game at the same time.
Frustrating but fun

hate on me but i'd like if they made a drunken boxer type character with similar aspects

Bakkd

shoryukid, post: 7299866, member: 46744 wrote:

I'm a dirty copycat and like how crazy Infiltration makes Hakan look.

I'm a sakura main but am trying to pick up Hakan for fun.

Its a little jarring given, that to me, playing Hakan is like multitasking. Not only am i trying to play SF, but i'm playing an oiling up mini-game at the same time.
Frustrating but fun

hate on me but i'd like if they made a drunken boxer type character with similar aspects

That sounds like a baller idea. And come on, who doesn't want to play like Infiltration?

shoryukid

Bakkd, post: 7300181, member: 59935 wrote:

That sounds like a baller idea. And come on, who doesn't want to play like Infiltration?

Well, i was going to put Hakan on blast, that's why i mentioned the "hate on me part" because i was going to say i wish he didn't rely on oil as much as he does. but seeing how easily Infiltration stays oiled i figure its a learning process.

The drunken boxer character has been done in a lot of other games but it came to mind because i don't think they rely on drinking as much as Hakan relies on oil but i'm just complaining because it makes it harder to learn him and for when i get blown up for oiling up/not having oil lol

Hakan is cool with me i just wish i was better at using him

Bakkd

shoryukid, post: 7300246, member: 46744 wrote:

Well, i was going to put Hakan on blast, that's why i mentioned the "hate on me part" because i was going to say i wish he didn't rely on oil as much as he does. but seeing how easily Infiltration stays oiled i figure its a learning process.

The drunken boxer character has been done in a lot of other games but it came to mind because i don't think they rely on drinking as much as Hakan relies on oil but i'm just complaining because it makes it harder to learn him and for when i get blown up for oiling up/not having oil lol

Hakan is cool with me i just wish i was better at using him

Yeah, don't put him on Blast here, you'll get roasted, lol. But I can see where you're coming from, knowing when to oil up and when to not oil up is such a hard thing to master because it seriously nets you wins and losses.

Drunken boxer might be a bit silly to do cause I can see how he might play a lot like Hakan in the sense with drinking compared to oiling. Yet in the end the specials and normals make or break the character, lol.

3xfun_wtf

I play Hakan because hes probably the most unique character in this game imo... I like the oil.. his character design is cool.. I wanted to main Cody before cause I was fan but ever since I saw infiltrations matches with hakan recently I picked up hakan right away... I know its hard to use him... but winning with him just makes the victory even more sweet!

yes

psshh dont cry about hakans oil.. i played em as he didnt start or stack oil, and i didnt bitch once about oil.

i love to bitch

jebop

You're all a bunch of tier whores. I've recently tried to pick up Vip... Never mind.

yes

jebop, post: 7686145, member: 52572 wrote:

You're all a bunch of tier whores. I've recently tried to pick up Vip... Never mind.

silly panda

CaveKilla

If your dieing because ur not oiled and are just mashing buttons with out the right mindset and thought process behind matches then ur not playing Street Fighter. You're playing random fighter /quote from juicebox.

I've beating many people unoiled before it all about knowing what your opponent is going to do next. How well you can read your opponent, and how well you can maneuver 1 frame link combos with Hakan. Master those combos unoiled and you'll be a great Hakan. He doesn't need to be oiled for everything and plus he still has some of the best vortex in the game unoiled.

yes

best thing to do is to chase there ass down, make it seem like your trying to get in, they'll back down, then you put on the oil.

User_

3 words: pissing shotos off

And they do get maaaaaaaaaaad