Concurrent Persona 4 Arena Tier List Discussion

SUPARNOVAXSUPARNOVAX 必殺技Joined: Posts: 5,808 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
These are the current tier listings for Persona 4 Arena in the arcades running version 1.02 which will be the console release version.

Tier list discussion informatino gathered together from P4U BBS: http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/game/52991/

The placing of characters in each group do not really have any specific order so take it with a grain of salt regarding characters that are frequently used and those that are not as frequently used.

7/23/2012 -- General pre-console release list
S: Aegis, Mitsuru
A: Teddie/Kuma, Akihiko, Yu, Yosuke, Chie
B: S.Labrys, Labrys, Yukiko, Kanji, Naoto, Elizabeth

8/22/2012 -- Jiyuna's "Opinions from Japan Scene" Tier List, no order
S+: Mitsuru
S: Aigis, Yu
A: Chie, Teddie
B: Yosuke, Kanji, Yukiko, Naoto, Labrys, Elizabeth, Akihiko, S. Labrys,



Channels of interest for your Persona 4 Arena viewing pleasure to see these characters in action pre-release
http://youtube.com/user/jourdal
http://youtube.com/user/MrTSUTAYA
http://youtube.com/user/pktazn1213
http://youtube.com/user/GAMEacho
http://youtube.com/user/kouhatsu
"Defeat is a state of mind. No one is ever defeated until defeat has been accepted as reality. To me, defeat in anything is merely temporary, and its punishment is but an urge for me to greater effort to achieve my goal. Defeat simply tells me that something is wrong in my doing; it is a path leading to success and truth." ~ Bruce Lee
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Comments

  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    That list is from before Naoto's SMP loops were discovered, so I suspect she should probably be A-tier.
  • SaitsuSaitsu Tranquilo...ASSENAYO! Joined: Posts: 33,565
    Don't forget Mayonaka Arena for a Youtube channel.

    But yeah, this game is pretty damn well balanced. Only character in that entire list I'm not afraid of is Shadow Labrys.
    PSN: Saitsuofleaves SF5 Tag: Saitsu  Baby Steps to Giant Strides
    FC: 0490-4604-8179 
    Street Fighter 5: Vega
  • ThatJollyOlBastidThatJollyOlBastid soon Joined: Posts: 19,826
    Also this channel uploads P4A regularly
    http://www.youtube.com/user/kouhatsu

    Any idea if theres a matchup list around?
    "Seth is like McDonald's. You can learn to make the same burger in 2 days as the person who's worked there for 5 years" ~ Dogura
  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    Supposedly the mook had info on matchups (but no frame data for whatever reason), but not only is that not for 1.02, they're not online / translated anywhere I'm aware of.
  • ThatJollyOlBastidThatJollyOlBastid soon Joined: Posts: 19,826
    P4A is now a main game at Seasons Beatings this year :tup:
    "Seth is like McDonald's. You can learn to make the same burger in 2 days as the person who's worked there for 5 years" ~ Dogura
  • SUPARNOVAXSUPARNOVAX 必殺技 Joined: Posts: 5,808 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    P4A is now a main game at Seasons Beatings this year :tup:
    Source? That's god like.

    Really.
    "Defeat is a state of mind. No one is ever defeated until defeat has been accepted as reality. To me, defeat in anything is merely temporary, and its punishment is but an urge for me to greater effort to achieve my goal. Defeat simply tells me that something is wrong in my doing; it is a path leading to success and truth." ~ Bruce Lee
  • ThatJollyOlBastidThatJollyOlBastid soon Joined: Posts: 19,826
    "Seth is like McDonald's. You can learn to make the same burger in 2 days as the person who's worked there for 5 years" ~ Dogura
  • SaitsuSaitsu Tranquilo...ASSENAYO! Joined: Posts: 33,565
    Source? That's god like.

    Really.

    Well it doesn't surprise me since other majors have also put it in. It was just the next in line.
    PSN: Saitsuofleaves SF5 Tag: Saitsu  Baby Steps to Giant Strides
    FC: 0490-4604-8179 
    Street Fighter 5: Vega
  • Swedish ChefSwedish Chef Cream of the Crop! Joined: Posts: 8,423
    Tier list right now probably looks like this.
    S Tier: Aigis, Yu, Mitisuru.
    A+ Tier: Everyone else.

    This game is looking to be one of the single most balanced 2D fighting games on launch ever made.
    TAKING YOU PUNKS DOWN!!!
    ^Bubbleberry_VII you are so godlike for making this.
  • SUPARNOVAXSUPARNOVAX 必殺技 Joined: Posts: 5,808 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Tier list right now probably looks like this.
    S Tier: Aigis, Yu, Mitisuru.
    A+ Tier: Everyone else.

    This game is looking to be one of the single most balanced 2D fighting games on launch ever made.
    Agreed. Says a lot about the game's balance. It's so good and the general impression of this should have a good effect on people picking the game up and persevering with learning.
    "Defeat is a state of mind. No one is ever defeated until defeat has been accepted as reality. To me, defeat in anything is merely temporary, and its punishment is but an urge for me to greater effort to achieve my goal. Defeat simply tells me that something is wrong in my doing; it is a path leading to success and truth." ~ Bruce Lee
  • HecatomHecatom Aka Black Gorilla (・Д・)ノ Joined: Posts: 22,288
    why it seems that every time that i pick interest on a character, he/she has the worst matchups in the game, lol (of course this never stops me on playing with them)
    the characters that im interested the most on p4 are yukiko, kanji and elizabeth, and the 3 of them have the 3 worst matchups on the game, jajaja
    ( •_•) IT'S NOT RAPE,
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■
    IT'S SURPRISE SEX! (⌐■_■)
    YEAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!
    "Orgasm is a simile for the emotional epiphany a woman has when the shame of penetration is eclipsed by the inherent virtue of servicing a man." ~ Kromo.
    ( •_•)
    ( ಠ_ಠ)
    ( ಥ_ಥ)
  • MightfoMightfo Joined: Posts: 335
    That list is from before Naoto's SMP loops were discovered, so I suspect she should probably be A-tier.

    not really, apparently

    recent info from stunedge(who has actually played the games significantly in arcades) on dustloop:
    The tier list in post#1 is almost close to the final version

    S: Aigis, Mitsuru
    A: Teddie, Akihiko, Yu, Yosuke, Chie
    B: Shadow Labrys, Labrys, Yukiko, Kanji, Naoto, Elizabeth

    you might rank up to Teddie, Yu and Chie to A+ as well.

    Worst match ups in the game are
    Elizabeth vs. Mitsuru
    Yukiko vs. Shadow Labrys
    Kanji vs. Elizabeth

    which are close to 3:7


    Elizabeth vs. Mitsuru
    Droit destroys every single option Elizabeth has, Elizabeth has to guess "exactly" right to take the dmg and very risky

    Yukiko vs. Shadow
    Persona guard blocks all projectiles, DP is too good against Yukiko

    Kanji vs. Elizabeth
    Zoning allday + 2B, JB anti-air keeps away kanji so good
    the game has couple bad matchups but its far much more balanced than early BB.
    Kanji is considered to be the worst atm but he is even much better than EX tager in my opinion.

    every characters has certain dumb setup and oki and you die really fast.
    In a single tournament, though Mitsuru and Aigis could get the most stable win, but you can never tell what will happen in this game.

    Yukiko vs Mitsuru is another pretty bad one but Mitsuru JA nerf made this one so much better than before.


    (from http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?14089-P4A-Tier-List-Discussion-*5-2-Latest*&p=1360805&highlight=#post1360805 onward)
    If you live around Dallas/Fort Worth and play P4A, SG, BB, MB, AH3, or KOF13, PM me.
  • ChouJPChouJP Joined: Posts: 413
    attachment.php?attachmentid=1953&d=1343661660
    Based Japanese Marvel God
    Said to have defeated Godzilla by only removing his shades.
  • HecatomHecatom Aka Black Gorilla (・Д・)ノ Joined: Posts: 22,288
    i hope that you are aware that the chart is a joke from jiyuna
    ( •_•) IT'S NOT RAPE,
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■
    IT'S SURPRISE SEX! (⌐■_■)
    YEAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!
    "Orgasm is a simile for the emotional epiphany a woman has when the shame of penetration is eclipsed by the inherent virtue of servicing a man." ~ Kromo.
    ( •_•)
    ( ಠ_ಠ)
    ( ಥ_ಥ)
  • PfhorPfhor I play anime Joined: Posts: 81
    i hope that you are aware that the chart is a joke from jiyuna

    Looks pretty accurate to me
  • HecatomHecatom Aka Black Gorilla (・Д・)ノ Joined: Posts: 22,288
    Looks pretty accurate to me
    let me put the rest of the post to give you the context
    I know you guys have only had the game for a few days, but at least try and be more professional when discussing tiers.
    S Tier? B Tier? What does this mean? They're just abstract rankings made by netplay scrubs and stream monsters with no fact/science/math behind it.


    I live in Japan, and I know many Japanese players and have many Japanese friends. Japan is an advanced country (in my opinion, more advanced than America); and here in Japan, we believe that if there is no concrete data backing the tiers, then they are worthless.


    I might get in trouble with the guys at the arcade, but here is something that we have been working on the past few weeks.
    As you'll notice, this chart is much more polished and professional than the ones being discussed on this site.

    attachment.php?attachmentid=1953&d=1343661660
    If you crunch the numbers, you'll notice that each individual character's proportion on the chart translates DIRECTLY to their CTWP (Chance to Win Percentage)

    For example, if Aigis(28%) fights against Yosuke(11%), then there is a 28% chance Aigis will win the match, and an 11% chance Yosuke will win.

    Akihiko vs Liz: 15% chance Akihiko will win, 13% chance Liz will win.
    Narukami vs Mitsuru: 21% chance Narukami will win, 26% chance Mitsuru will win.
    Etc. Etc...


    Compiling the data and making the chart wasn't easy, but we tried to make it simple enough and used many bright colors to ensure the Americans would also be able to understand.

    Hopefully people on this site will finally realize how pointless theory fighting is and begin looking at the math that goes on behind fighting games.

    If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
    ( •_•) IT'S NOT RAPE,
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■
    IT'S SURPRISE SEX! (⌐■_■)
    YEAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!
    "Orgasm is a simile for the emotional epiphany a woman has when the shame of penetration is eclipsed by the inherent virtue of servicing a man." ~ Kromo.
    ( •_•)
    ( ಠ_ಠ)
    ( ಥ_ಥ)
  • stickystainesstickystaines Joined: Posts: 835
    Not seeing it Hecatom, looks perfectly valid. It's from Jiyuna so you know it's real.
  • HecatomHecatom Aka Black Gorilla (・Д・)ノ Joined: Posts: 22,288
    Not seeing it Hecatom, looks perfectly valid. It's from Jiyuna so you know it's real.
    For example, if Aigis(28%) fights against Yosuke(11%), then there is a 28% chance Aigis will win the match, and an 11% chance Yosuke will win.
    where is the other 61%?
    ( •_•) IT'S NOT RAPE,
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■
    IT'S SURPRISE SEX! (⌐■_■)
    YEAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!
    "Orgasm is a simile for the emotional epiphany a woman has when the shame of penetration is eclipsed by the inherent virtue of servicing a man." ~ Kromo.
    ( •_•)
    ( ಠ_ಠ)
    ( ಥ_ಥ)
  • PfhorPfhor I play anime Joined: Posts: 81
    I had no idea that tier lists were so well thought out, bravo jiyuna.
  • PinoyPrydePinoyPryde Rhythmic Button Mashing Joined: Posts: 1,180
    where is the other 61%?
    I don't think there's supposed to be the other percent. He just states the chances to win for one character over the other.
    I mash buttons and stomp my feet to music

    Steam ID/PSN: ArcadeStatic
  • Ratio 4 CerebellaRatio 4 Cerebella this again Joined: Posts: 90
    uh hecatom you realize pie charts are way more accurate than bar charts, right?
  • denshuudenshuu You sayin I like videogames? Joined: Posts: 338
    I don't think there's supposed to be the other percent. He just states the chances to win for one character over the other.
    Clearly they're only playing 39% of a match.
    No time for love, Doctor Jones.
  • KowtowRobinsonKowtowRobinson TEBOW! TEBOW! TEBOW! Joined: Posts: 6,415
    Tier list threads are the easiest threads to troll ever lol
  • XShoryuken 26XShoryuken 26 Joined: Posts: 179
  • OniLoverOniLover Joined: Posts: 384
    Yukiko is so low :o why, might I ask? I know she is incredibly persona and momentum based, but I'd think once she gets going she'd be insane.
  • SaitsuSaitsu Tranquilo...ASSENAYO! Joined: Posts: 33,565
    Yukiko is so low :eek: why, might I ask? I know she is incredibly persona and momentum based, but I'd think once she gets going she'd be insane.

    Because she's incredibly persona and momentum based. This game's tiers are so tightly compressed, that's honestly all it takes.
    PSN: Saitsuofleaves SF5 Tag: Saitsu  Baby Steps to Giant Strides
    FC: 0490-4604-8179 
    Street Fighter 5: Vega
  • OniLoverOniLover Joined: Posts: 384
    Oh. Good. Are her unblockables more consistent than Shadow Labry's? And does Teddie have unblockables?
  • Megasxlr2Megasxlr2 Joined: Posts: 30
    cant wait to use Naoto,she looks beast.
  • Fore God ViiFore God Vii Level 2 Member Joined: Posts: 475
    Just got the game this is my opinion.

    S+: Mitsuru
    S: Chie
    A+: Yu, Kanji
    A: Yosuke, Naoto, Aigis
    B+: Teddie, Akihiko
    B: Yukiko
    .........

    JK that was from gamefaqs
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  • OniLoverOniLover Joined: Posts: 384
    So she's a character with a very strong Zoning/Keepaway game, and unblockables, and more advanced serious shit. ugh. I want this game to play her :/
  • KowtowRobinsonKowtowRobinson TEBOW! TEBOW! TEBOW! Joined: Posts: 6,415
    Just got the game this is my opinion.

    S+: Mitsuru
    S: Chie
    A+: Yu, Kanji
    A: Yosuke, Naoto, Aigis
    B+: Teddie, Akihiko
    B: Yukiko
    .........

    JK that was from gamefaqs

    lol FUCK YEAH KANJI A+ TIER! hahahahahahahah that list
  • soundprosssoundpross Sure You Can!! Joined: Posts: 112
    Ohhh snap my favorite the persona 3 cast currently top tier :)
    When they tell you "They can't do it" tell them "SURE YOU CAN!!" 
    I miss my evo 2012 banner :(
  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    Oh. Good. Are her unblockables more consistent than Shadow Labry's? And does Teddie have unblockables?

    Yukiko's unblockables "flow" better in her blockstrings than S.Lab's do, I think.

    Teddie inflicts Rage for meter, with his R-Action, and with one of his items, making it so the enemy can't block.
  • Specter_WSASpecter_WSA Joined: Posts: 2
    Honestly so far I have been having a lot of trouble (forgive the noob speak) With that douche who throws and has a chair. Some of his moves are invincible, and using chie I just have problems breaking him so I can get in. I can rape him as long as I don't get hit by an invincible move. And I am having trouble figuring out why chie is so good I mean she is fun and does good damage, but labrys can just stand tapping square and its hard to get in without taking damage.
  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,396
    Honestly so far I have been having a lot of trouble (forgive the noob speak) With that douche who throws and has a chair. Some of his moves are invincible, and using chie I just have problems breaking him so I can get in. I can rape him as long as I don't get hit by an invincible move. And I am having trouble figuring out why chie is so good I mean she is fun and does good damage, but labrys can just stand tapping square and its hard to get in without taking damage.
    but labrys isn't all over your face without a pause.
    我道
  • Specter_WSASpecter_WSA Joined: Posts: 2
    but labrys isn't all over your face without a pause.
    she gives me no choice but to rush her, she has good range, and S lab has some weirdo cross overs. So far though just that chair guy pisses me off the most, and the girl with the book, she has a throw that for some reason I can't stop but she can use in the middle of my combo
  • AnneIFrankAnneIFrank Joined: Posts: 428
    but labrys isn't all over your face without a pause.

    This. If she gets a knockdown, she can kinda go crazy for a minute, but that's it. Her only real option to get in is ridiculous hitbox j.b or a string into chain mix up. her start up is so slow and her reversal is pretty terrible (still catching some newer players). I think she's a little better than she's been given credit for, but by no means top tier. Still, day 3 impressions so meh, just early theory. Maybe we can learn some stupid vortex with s.c for oki.
  • NinjanuityNinjanuity Love shall prevail Joined: Posts: 806
    she gives me no choice but to rush her, she has good range, and S lab has some weirdo cross overs. So far though just that chair guy pisses me off the most, and the girl with the book, she has a throw that for some reason I can't stop but she can use in the middle of my combo
    The girl with the book is Elizabeth, and the throw you're referring to is her Furious Action, Shuffle Time. Her reversal, if you will. She becomes invincible and does a throw that knocks you fullscreen and inflicts Charm, Poison, Fear, or Confuse depending on her SP level. It does no damage. She pretty much needs that to escape pressure. My advice to you is just to practice your combos in the lab.
  • JozhearJozhear vega all day Joined: Posts: 7,394
    i picked up s. labrys


    Seems cool. but it appears that you need a little breathing room to get things going. LP Buttons have low range and HP Button is slow. Jump HP is sick though. You can get some good work in with that.

    Persona is unreal, had to play her. Swinging the axe around in tandem with huge Persona punches is enticing. I've always been about characters who can press buttons and cover a lot of space at the same time, so she seems like a good fit for me.
  • shin neferioshin neferio BEHOLD! Joined: Posts: 807
    will main kanji forever!
    5th King of Tetris
  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,396
    any new lists from jap?
    我道
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,595 mod
    So, I'm thinking that, with the game out, it would be nice for us to come up with our own proper, community driven match up chart for this game. It's something I've always wanted to do, but the other sections that I've modded were for team based games, and there's less emphasis on individual match ups there.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • zUkUuzUkUu Theory Pro Joined: Posts: 4,396
    it's a bit too early for us tho, seeing the game is barely two weeks old and didn't even come out in europe yet, but I like the matchup-based tier lists the most as well.
    我道
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,595 mod
    But we can already start discussion on it though, besides, the game's been out for some time now in Japan. We can probably use whatever they've come up with as a base from which we can compare our own experience.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • TetsuroTetsuro Joined: Posts: 683
    I think S.lab is going to move up in tiers once people get better with her awkward playstyle. She only needs one knockdown to start her insane vortex. Invisible crossups from double jumping just over your opponent with a laser charging behind you is just too good. Seriously most of the time I don't even know what side I'm on.

    And the fact that most of the cast can't DP out of it, and you can't Evasive action because of how active the laser is... ugh too good.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,595 mod
    Went ahead and made a blank matchup chart on Google Docs. Though I figure it would be best to wait until we see P4 played at a major before we start editing. And that's not discounting the need to actually vet folks who should be able to access it.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • The red strawberryThe red strawberry Fraudberry Joined: Posts: 141
    I think S.lab is going to move up in tiers once people get better with her awkward playstyle. She only needs one knockdown to start her insane vortex. Invisible crossups from double jumping just over your opponent with a laser charging behind you is just too good. Seriously most of the time I don't even know what side I'm on.

    And the fact that most of the cast can't DP out of it, and you can't Evasive action because of how active the laser is... ugh too good.

    Dude Tetsuro I play and lose to your SLAB and Yukiko all the time on xbl. Any advice on Yukiko vs SLAB? I remember Stunedge saying that's one of the worst matchups besides Elizabeth Kanji and another match.
    I <3 Maki Nishikino
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  • TetsuroTetsuro Joined: Posts: 683
    Dude Tetsuro I play and lose to your SLAB and Yukiko all the time on xbl. Any advice on Yukiko vs SLAB? I remember Stunedge saying that's one of the worst matchups besides Elizabeth Kanji and another match.
    Hey there! Honestly it's really tough to give advice on this matchup since I haven't fought it much from Yukiko's side. Yukiko's biggest issue is that not only does she have a lot of trouble hurting S.Lab's persona, she has a hard time stopping the long start up of his moves, and the moves that will stop it (agi, maragi, and maybe her sweep) all leave her vulnerable if she doesn't hit S.Lab herself.

    On the bright side Yukiko's normals are pretty much all better than slab's. They are faster and most cover more range. I would say to work on your block strings and frame traps. You kind of have to rush slab down so also get good at air turning and IADing up close for a cross up j.A after a block string. You can also bait her DP since slab's is really good and most that I have fought (myself included) love to mash it out when in doubt.

    Keep in mind I'm still learning matchups myself so this could all be way off. Oh and feel free to add me on XBL if you ever want to get some matches in, or just want to test some stuff. I'm always down to play if I'm on.
  • Phillpro1Phillpro1 Joined: Posts: 3,041
    How do you guys feel Elizabeth is tier wise. I play her and love using her. I feel like during certain matchups she does really good in such as characters with non long range normals or not too fast wake up reversals but characters like Mitsu and Yu who have pretty good range on their normals and specials that can easily break Thanatos or bypass some attacks and all of Yu's wake up reversal supers are so hard to deal with.
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  • SUPARNOVAXSUPARNOVAX 必殺技 Joined: Posts: 5,808 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I think Elizabeth is pretty random. You either just blow her up after persona break or she keeps you away so far with Fears, Frozen, and just high damaging BnBs
    "Defeat is a state of mind. No one is ever defeated until defeat has been accepted as reality. To me, defeat in anything is merely temporary, and its punishment is but an urge for me to greater effort to achieve my goal. Defeat simply tells me that something is wrong in my doing; it is a path leading to success and truth." ~ Bruce Lee
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