Concurrent Persona 4 Arena Tier List Discussion

1234579

Comments

  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    Literally, the first piece of advice I give to people against mitsuru is do not even attempt to tech the grab mid screen. Just let it hit you. It's fine, you take like 1.2 and you're out. Don't tech it.

    Wait what? Can she combo you after you tech the grab?
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • VhaeraunVhaeraun Joined: Posts: 4
    Wait what? Can she combo you after you tech the grab?
    He meant not to throw reject a midscreen grab from Mitsuru and just tech backwards after so her SB mirror won't hit
  • 1000DollaSocks1000DollaSocks That's an overhead?! Joined: Posts: 618
    He meant not to throw reject a midscreen grab from Mitsuru and just tech backwards after so her SB mirror won't hit

    Ah, yes, kind of.

    Basically, if she has represented a throw, you're actually looking at probably 3 different possible outcomes. Grab/(5/4/6B)/jC. If you let the grab hit, you take a little over 1k, decent carry and no knockdown. If you try to tech, and she presses any standing B or jC, you're looking at some serious, serious damage, carry and knockdown if you reach the corner.
    Competitive Catherine for EVO2K12! http://www.twitch.tv/finestko/b/294218113
    Contact for details on upcoming tournaments and streams
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    Ah, yes, kind of.

    Basically, if she has represented a throw, you're actually looking at probably 3 different possible outcomes. Grab/(5/4/6B)/jC. If you let the grab hit, you take a little over 1k, decent carry and no knockdown. If you try to tech, and she presses any standing B or jC, you're looking at some serious, serious damage, carry and knockdown if you reach the corner.

    That's assuming you aren't reacting to the throw...
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • 1000DollaSocks1000DollaSocks That's an overhead?! Joined: Posts: 618
    That's assuming you aren't reacting to the throw...

    Man, I wish more of you guys with 13f reaction times would show up to tournaments and show everyone how to beat Mitsuru!
    Competitive Catherine for EVO2K12! http://www.twitch.tv/finestko/b/294218113
    Contact for details on upcoming tournaments and streams
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    The visual cue for a throw is pretty obvious, it's not like you are reacting to the animation of the character grabbing you but just the red exclamation mark. *shrug* When I concentrate hard enough I can tech throws everytime without having to use any help of my intuition. The problem is sometimes people (including me) abandon their reactions for their intuition in situations where they feel a throw might be too obvious and that's when your situation would occur.

    Edit: The thing about Mitsuru is her mixup is not really that strong except perhaps with instant overhead jB(this isn't even an instant overhead to be honest). The lack of mixup she has makes it easier to concentrate on teching. If there was some 5 way vortex going on or something, I could understand how teching a throw would become much more difficult.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • SpaceOutNightmareSpaceOutNightmare Stays Sandbaggin' Joined: Posts: 2,351
    I am apparently really uneducated on the Mitsuru thing.

    Any good Mitsurus want to show me want I'm missing, I'm available right now.

    I usually tech throws, so someone has to show me.

    I always want to get better.


    But to be fair, I tech throws in Skullgirls.
    Thinking about redoing BOB tournament for the patch, anyone game?
  • CelerityCelerity Professional Necrodancer Joined: Posts: 798
    The visual cue for a throw is pretty obvious, it's not like you are reacting to the animation of the character grabbing you but just the red exclamation mark. *shrug* When I concentrate hard enough I can tech throws everytime without having to use any help of my intuition. The problem is sometimes people (including me) abandon their reactions for their intuition in situations where they feel a throw might be too obvious and that's when your situation would occur.

    Edit: The thing about Mitsuru is her mixup is not really that strong except perhaps with instant overhead jB(this isn't even an instant overhead to be honest). The lack of mixup she has makes it easier to concentrate on teching. If there was some 5 way vortex going on or something, I could understand how teching a throw would become much more difficult.

    Expecting a throw and having your fingers hovering over the buttons to tech it would be considered "prediction" not "reaction". If it were possible to tech throws on reaction, then throws would be useless.
    (P4AU) Marie :::: (UNIEL) Vatista :::: (BB) Izayoi/Rachel :::: (USF4) Juri
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    I am apparently really uneducated on the Mitsuru thing.

    Any good Mitsurus want to show me want I'm missing, I'm available right now.

    I usually tech throws, so someone has to show me.

    I always want to get better.

    Well what they are talking about is that if you guess a throw tech wrong and the Mitsuru does instant overhead jB(counterhit) instead, or 5B (which lifts off the ground immediately, going over the whiff throw and fatal countering), they'll punish you hard for it.
    Expecting a throw and having your fingers hovering over the buttons to tech it would be considered "prediction" not "reaction". If it were possible to tech throws on reaction, then throws would be useless.

    It's both. Prediction helps with reactions but in this case you shouldn't be acting on your predictions unless you reacted.

    The more options you have to look out for, the harder it is to watch out for that single thing, in this case, a throw...but as I was saying, Mitsuru is more of a character that shuts down every approach/escape you attempt, she isn't necessarily a character where you have to watch out for many difficult to react mixups.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • SpaceOutNightmareSpaceOutNightmare Stays Sandbaggin' Joined: Posts: 2,351
    Well what they are talking about is that if you guess a throw tech wrong and the Mitsuru does instant overhead jB(counterhit) instead, or 5B (which lifts off the ground immediately, going over the whiff throw and fatal countering), they'll punish you hard for it.



    It's both. Prediction helps with reactions but in this case you shouldn't be acting on your predictions unless you reacted.

    The more options you have to look out for, the harder it is to watch out for that single thing, in this case, a throw...but as I was saying, Mitsuru is more of a character that shuts down every approach you attempt, she isn't necessarily a character where you have to watch out for many difficult to react mixups.
    Oh, I know the mixup, but whenever i play Mitsurus in long sets they don't use the throw nearly as much.

    I just want to see what I'm missing.
    Thinking about redoing BOB tournament for the patch, anyone game?
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    What do you guys feel about the Shadow Labrys vs. Yosuke matchup? I seriously feel it's like 7-3 Yosuke...he is too fast for her and his R-action allows him to get out of too many of her setups. There are some Yosuke specific setups you can use but they don't really guarantee a hit if he R-actions.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • CorreaCorrea HYPER CATINEL FORCE Joined: Posts: 177
    Expecting a throw and having your fingers hovering over the buttons to tech it would be considered "prediction" not "reaction". If it were possible to tech throws on reaction, then throws would be useless.

    That's the point. If you actually know the matchup, you'll know that Mitsuru only has 2 or 3 very specific situations in which she'll try to throw you, and all of those can be seen coming a mile away if you know what they look like. Hence you should be able to tech all of them on reaction to the throw startup, because you should be looking for it whenever it's likely to be coming.

    It's not like she's Yu or Shadow Labrys, with 235 different mixups available at any given time, one of which might be a throw. She's extremely straight-forward. That's what people mean by "she has no mixups". And by the way, if you have meter, alpha counter gets you out of mirror setups for free (and in a lot of cases even wakeup roll will do, depending on the spacing of the mirror).
    PSN: tcorrea
    P4A: Mitsuru
    UMVC3: Doom / Storm / Sentinel
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 25,813
    In my experience, Mitsuru players don't depend on the throw, but the threat of the throw of to create that pressure. When you're sitting there in blockstun, it only takes one successful throw to put you where they want you to be. The throw is merely extra damage--most Mitsurus just want you think they will throw so that they can fatal you for a good 5-6k off that baited throw tech.

    As for Yosuke in general, yes he has a lot of great tools at his disposal and is a mixup god. However, his low health and not so great damage require the player to work much harder than Mitsuru or Aigis. His DP can be baited and beaten. He is fairly dependent on his Persona and this makes it easily broken if its called out by the opponent. All that said, he is very annoying to deal with, and even a character like Mitsuru has to play somewhat differently than usual to deal with him. He's a zoner's nightmare to fight--mobile, high jumps that clear most projectiles easily, able to get in and deal damage and return to neutral before you know what hit you. He's good, but he's not S-tier.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    He is fairly dependent on his Persona and this makes it easily broken if its called out by the opponent.

    I don't really think Yosuke is that dependent on his persona, in the sense that he still has his speed to get away (and to suddenly come in if he wants to) when he's persona broken. He also still has his knives which has some zoning usage unless you're predictable.

    Edit: And nevermind, I misread what I quoted.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • SpaceOutNightmareSpaceOutNightmare Stays Sandbaggin' Joined: Posts: 2,351
    What the flying fuck is with the S.lab V. Kanji matchup?

    His DP just kind of tells her setups to go fuck off/
    Thinking about redoing BOB tournament for the patch, anyone game?
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    You have to do your setups while blocking/airblocking since it can't be safe jumped. I've been working on some anti-Kanji setups but still needs more work.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • SpaceOutNightmareSpaceOutNightmare Stays Sandbaggin' Joined: Posts: 2,351
    You have to do your setups while blocking/airblocking since it can't be safe jumped. I've been working on some anti-Kanji setups but still needs more work.
    He just breaks the persona

    I don't ever really get caught with the DP, but poor Asterious does.
    Thinking about redoing BOB tournament for the patch, anyone game?
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    He just breaks the persona

    I don't ever really get caught with the DP, but poor Asterious does.

    He will get hit but then you can fatal counter it...for instance, the typical setup of throw (or combo into air qcb+P), then 5C into jump over(air turn), will let you fatal counter punish him even if he hits the persona and he will be facing the wrong way when cancelling it into super to try to save himself. There's a chance you can mistime your setup so that his r-action comes out in the right direction, but you should be able to bait a super if he has meter and if he doesn't, you can still punish it for free.

    Edit: Also I forgot to mention the more obvious setups and those are the laser ones. He isn't going to hit Asterius out of that move.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • Ratio 4 CerebellaRatio 4 Cerebella this again Joined: Posts: 90
    please ignore emil hes a robot and a troll.
    What the flying fuck is with the S.lab V. Kanji matchup?

    His DP just kind of tells her setups to go fuck off/
    Its 6.5 - 3.5 slab favor.

    As long as you do the air mixups hes kind of fucked.
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    please ignore emil hes a robot and a troll.

    And who the hell are you? Don't post about this game again.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • SpaceOutNightmareSpaceOutNightmare Stays Sandbaggin' Joined: Posts: 2,351
    please ignore emil hes a robot and a troll.

    Its 6.5 - 3.5 slab favor.

    As long as you do the air mixups hes kind of fucked.
    That's... absolutely not helpful at all.

    Who cares what the numbers say, getting touched once in this matchup is death.

    Gonna need something more concrete than that.

    I mean, I already do, I just want to hear your advice.
    Thinking about redoing BOB tournament for the patch, anyone game?
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    That's... absolutely not helpful at all.

    Who cares what the numbers say, getting touched once in this matchup is death.

    Gonna need something more concrete than that.

    I mean, I already do, I just want to hear your advice.

    You got to use the laser setups and the 5C punch ones that I mentioned...and maybe some other ones if they work but they aren't coming to mind at the moment.

    Kanji can't really punish anything she does with air tackle...if he's jumping, you can 2B him on reaction since his jump is pretty floaty and his airdash is slow...and it will also punish an airtackle with fatal counter. The problem is that Kanji has a jumping persona attack (not sure what the move is) that makes him hover in the air a bit - this will make him avoid your 2B and hit you out of it.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • SpaceOutNightmareSpaceOutNightmare Stays Sandbaggin' Joined: Posts: 2,351
    You got to use the laser setups and the 5C punch ones that I mentioned...and maybe some other ones if they work but they aren't coming to mind at the moment.

    Kanji can't really punish anything she does with air tackle...if he's jumping, you can 2B him on reaction since his jump is pretty floaty and his airdash is slow...and it will also punish an airtackle with fatal counter. The problem is that Kanji has a jumping persona attack (not sure what the move is) that makes him hover in the air a bit - this will make him avoid your 2B and hit you out of it.
    Maybe it's because I play "the best Kanji in the southeast", but it seems like his Jump B(I think?) just kind of stops her from getting started.

    Someone on MM gave good advice.
    Thinking about redoing BOB tournament for the patch, anyone game?
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    2B beats his jump B(I'm guessing that's the chair shot with the big hitbox). I used to get blown up by that until I used 2B. But yeah the problem is the existence of Kanji's other jump attack if they catch on to you anti-airing his jB with 2B.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • stickystainesstickystaines Joined: Posts: 835
    That's the point. If you actually know the matchup, you'll know that Mitsuru only has 2 or 3 very specific situations in which she'll try to throw you, and all of those can be seen coming a mile away if you know what they look like. Hence you should be able to tech all of them on reaction to the throw startup, because you should be looking for it whenever it's likely to be coming.

    It's not like she's Yu or Shadow Labrys, with 235 different mixups available at any given time, one of which might be a throw. She's extremely straight-forward. That's what people mean by "she has no mixups". And by the way, if you have meter, alpha counter gets you out of mirror setups for free (and in a lot of cases even wakeup roll will do, depending on the spacing of the mirror).
    The problem is if you misread a throw and she does 4{B}, then you are kinda fucked. The point of a reaction throw is that you throw as soon as you ARE being throw, not when you MIGHT be throw, however highly likely it may be. If you are breaking throws on reaction then you should be able to avoid both being thrown and being FC 4{B}'d.

    You dont see people in Tekken pressing 1 or 2 when they think they might be thrown and say its on reaction; it's an actual reaction to the opponent throwing you. When people stop getting hit by FC 4{B} then i'll believe it can be broken on reaction.
  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    The tech window in this game is large enough that you can truly react to a throw if you are looking for it at {throw startup} +12F, though it is on the edge of human reaction time in a multiple option scenario so you have to be looking really hard for it. Throw startup is generally 5F, though there are exceptions (most notably Kanji at 11F), but if I'm remembering correctly the fastest throw startup is 4F, and 16F is definitely within human reaction time even allotting a couple of frames for the player to figure out what's going on so he/she can react.

    In short, it's difficult to tech on pure reaction, but it is possible.
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    The problem is if you misread a throw and she does 4{B}, then you are kinda fucked. The point of a reaction throw is that you throw as soon as you ARE being throw, not when you MIGHT be throw, however highly likely it may be. If you are breaking throws on reaction then you should be able to avoid both being thrown and being FC 4{B}'d.

    You dont see people in Tekken pressing 1 or 2 when they think they might be thrown and say its on reaction; it's an actual reaction to the opponent throwing you. When people stop getting hit by FC 4{B} then i'll believe it can be broken on reaction.

    As I said, reads are supposed to help your reactions but depending on what we're talking about, you don't have to act on your read unless you reacted. The throw tech window is large enough that you can tech on reaction, especially when there not many situations to be looking out for (such as Mitsuru). Not saying it's very easy to do, but definitely possible and people should be trying to improve in that aspect.

    On a slightly related note, I'm annoyed that there is no random counterhit option in training mode, to help with confirming off random counterhits.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • IlluminatiIlluminati Gnosis is the law. Gnosis under skill. Joined: Posts: 102
    I haven't played against any mitsuru's of worth. could anyone be a bad ass and find a video of this throw/frame trap set up? thanks in advance!
    ^^(;,,; )^^ BB: Arakune, Platinum / GG: Faust, Zappa / P4: Kuma / TTT2: DJ, Hei, Kaz / VS: Zabel (ʳ ´º㉨º)ʳ
  • CorreaCorrea HYPER CATINEL FORCE Joined: Posts: 177
    The problem is if you misread a throw and she does 4{B}, then you are kinda fucked. The point of a reaction throw is that you throw as soon as you ARE being throw, not when you MIGHT be throw, however highly likely it may be. If you are breaking throws on reaction then you should be able to avoid both being thrown and being FC 4{B}'d.

    You dont see people in Tekken pressing 1 or 2 when they think they might be thrown and say its on reaction; it's an actual reaction to the opponent throwing you. When people stop getting hit by FC 4{B} then i'll believe it can be broken on reaction.

    I don't understand what you're arguing about. I don't think you understood what I said. You're supposed to be teching the throws on reaction, not on prediction. Which is what I said. If you already know exactly when you need to react, you can react faster, if conditions that require a reaction show up.

    It's not incredibly hard to do if you know what to look for, I've played against a couple people that could do it consistently. Makes it extremely hard to open them up with Mitsuru.
    PSN: tcorrea
    P4A: Mitsuru
    UMVC3: Doom / Storm / Sentinel
  • JacopeXJacopeX "Veras el color rojo cuando termine contigo." Joined: Posts: 419
    Kuma's 5B beats out Mitsuru's 5A.

    Depends on spacing and if Mitsuru decided to just throw 5A during Kuma's 5B start up animation instead of block, back dash, or roll. Otherwise no, that move is way too slow to beat 5A. Kuma literally has nothing that can beat that move other than trying to out prioritize Mitsuru with specials.
    ST/Alpha 3/CVS2/SSF4AE2012: Claw
    XBL/GGPO: JacopeX (currently learning how to Fightstick...sorry. =( )
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 36,773 mod
    Depends on spacing and if Mitsuru decided to just throw 5A during Kuma's 5B start up animation instead of block, back dash, or roll. Otherwise no, that move is way too slow to beat 5A. Kuma literally has nothing that can beat that move other than trying to out prioritize Mitsuru with specials.
    I believe I've already explained all this in a previous post. At max 5A range, she can get punished on block. Even if she blocks after a 5A, she's still getting pushed out to Teddie's ideal 5B range. Off course, that's assuming she's at that range. Any closer (which is outside her ideal 5A range) then she risks getting hit with a 5A or 2A on block (Mitsuru's 5A isn't that safe unless she's AAAing into Droit). What makes her strong is that she can get 5A in at its idea range against most of the cast, Teddie has more than a couple of ways to keep her out of that range and/or punish it. Not to mention that she has to be careful because if she gets so much as touched by the very tip of Teddie's claw (5A), then she's eating a combo, regardless of range. Look at all the characters that Mitsuru has bad matchups against (yes, they do exist), most have ways to out-range her while still being nasty up close.
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    Teddie's 5A is slow, I don't really see this as a reliable thing to use against her 5A.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • CorreaCorrea HYPER CATINEL FORCE Joined: Posts: 177
    It's exactly the same speed as Mitsuru's 5A
    PSN: tcorrea
    P4A: Mitsuru
    UMVC3: Doom / Storm / Sentinel
  • SpaceOutNightmareSpaceOutNightmare Stays Sandbaggin' Joined: Posts: 2,351
    So, I played a Mitsuru at locals, I teched 3/4ths of the time, simply because I know the setup.

    I would say half of my techs were reaction and the other half was me just knowing.

    I'm not saying it's bad or that I'm godlike, just that Ratio 4 Cerebella wanted to make it sound like the end all be all (or that was my impression from it).
    Thinking about redoing BOB tournament for the patch, anyone game?
  • KefKef Joined: Posts: 3,170
    Dunno where Jiyuna gets these lists but:

    S Tier
    - Yosuke, Teddie, Aigis, Chie

    A Tier
    - Yu, Mitsuru, Naoto, Labrys

    B Tier
    - Everybody else.

    Again, I have no idea.
    If you wanna play some MVC2/Xrd/SFV: PSN: I-kef-I SFV ID: I-kef-I
    From Miami, if you are in the area, don't be afraid to PM me for some locals.

    "Don't be nice, it's Marvel son, the origin of hatred. The game ain't about being nice. If you want to be nice play Tea Party Adventures. They go that shit on DS I heard." - Romneto
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    That list makes no sense to me
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • SpaceOutNightmareSpaceOutNightmare Stays Sandbaggin' Joined: Posts: 2,351
    Why You and Chie over Yu and Mitsuru?
    Thinking about redoing BOB tournament for the patch, anyone game?
  • Dotop10Dotop10 恋をはじめよう Joined: Posts: 15
    Keep in mind that jiyuna sometimes posts troll tier lists.
    I believe I've already explained all this in a previous post. At max 5A range, she can get punished on block.
    It is impossible for Teddie to punish Mitsuru for 5A with 5B. Mitsuru 5A is -9. I'm not 100% positive, but I'm pretty sure Teddie 5B is at least 13f start up. Theoretically, Teddie can use Bearscrew A, but if 5A is not point blank, it will not reach her in time.

    EDIT: It is possible that you were talking about Mitsuru trying to 5AA at max 5A range, in which case 5AA would whiff and you'd be able to 5B CH her. However, if you're in 5AA range, that is gapless unless she staggers it. And sadly, even on IB, 236A won't reach her in time.

    Also, Mitsuru does not have bad match ups. I think the only JP match up chart (though anyone can post on the P4U JBBS) I've ever seen that put her at a disadvantage against anyone was a 4.5 against Chie. Most said she had no bad match ups. Though, to be fair, her only really obviously lopsided match ups are against Elizabeth, Kanji, and I think Yukiko.
  • SolarSkurgeSolarSkurge Joined: Posts: 3
    I think I may be the only person in the world to think Elizabeth is entirely OP. I play Kanji though, so I suppose it'd be biased as well.
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    Though, to be fair, her only really obviously lopsided match ups are against Elizabeth, Kanji, and I think Yukiko.

    I'd say Shadow and normal Labrys too.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
Sign In or Register to comment.