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  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    edited November 2013
    IglooBob wrote: »
    ...ShmupMAME...

    if we are talking online, I agree GGPO > OE...

    GroovyMAME for me is better than shmup now. Shmup is leaps and bounds above fba in terms of input delay, but you face more audio/visual glitches. Groovy on the other hand is made for "exact" emulation. It still has some audio latency problems with fast moves if your soundcard isn't that great though, some of those clips may not even play, but that aspect is still improved compared to FBA and Shmup.

    With it's release of .151, it has an updated frame_delay option that can effectively remove any delay compared to arcade, the option name may seem like it would do the opposite though = D. You need a fairly strong PC to get the most out of it and usually need trial and error for the number depending on the game... Apparently they're trying to implement an auto frame delay option that will calculate the best settings for your PC on the launch of a game. You also aren't locked to static numbers for the audio latency either, 1.3, 2.2 etc are all accepted by it. So with MAME, if your audio couldn't really cope with a delay of 1, but 2 feels too laggy, try something in between!

    Another benefit is proper speed. I set my Groovy to make 3S run at double the Hz but Groovy auto corrects the emulation to half speed, so around 119.17 Hz. This *should* make the game run at arcade speed (59.583Hz) I can definitely feel the change too, it's noticeably slower. I even had trouble will simple things, for example, I was canceling into Hayate too quickly a few times lol. On top of that, running at double Hz produces hardware scanlines on my CRT. It looks glorious = )

    --

    GGPO is far, far, far better than OE online I agree. I played with a European friend of mine on OE, it's basically unplayable. Even with a delay set to 3+ on both our ends, still makes it look like a jittery mess... (soooo how 'bout that patch Capcom?) 0 delay on *real* GGPO looked and obviously ran better than OE set to MAX... I wish I were joking. I haven't tried playing anyone from the US on it yet, but I can only assume it would be even better.

    The obvious downside to Shmup and Groovy for a lot of people is no online support. So most people will probably stick with GGPO. For those of you that have problems with the input delay with FBA like me, or you're able to play offline with friends but don't have access to a Cab, you should really try out Shmup or Groovy. Groovy takes more time to set up and has some PC requirements to make the most out of it... But if you're able to run it well, you probably won't want to turn back = )

    Damn that was longer than I thought it was going to be! Happy Thanksgiving!

    ps, I'm thankful for GroovyMAME shocker, I know.
    Post edited by telesniper on
  • IglooBobIglooBob Bob the builder Joined: Posts: 4,039
    edited November 2013
    I'll give it a try! I've heard good things but never tried Groovy. will definitely do that soon and report back.
  • Evolution169Evolution169 Wake up DP is unbeatable Joined: Posts: 1,064
    IglooBob wrote: »
    CPS3 is not an emulator. It is the arcade version.
    I understand that, but I thought we were talking about the CPS3 emulator from Nebula. I'm obviously not interested in buying a CPS3 arcade machine, so I just assumed that they were suggesting the emulator.

    Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'll be sure to check out groovyMAME, and if I decide to take the game online, I'll go with GGPO.
  • RainbowViper*RainbowViper* Joined: Posts: 94
    I'm not sure if this happens often elsewhere, but I've personally only seen this once. I was in training mode playing against the CPU (Makoto) as Elena, and there was a moment in the corner (Elena's back towards the wall) where she activated Abare Tosanami at the exact same time I high-jumped...Makoto didn't grab onto the wall as she usually would. She actually rolled backwards and then back down to the ground. Idk if it's because of Elena's high-jump or if it's the way the screen moved at the start of her super, but that was definitely weird..I've never seen her SAII whiff like that.
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  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    @rainbowviper*

    I've seen it before in some video long time ago but didn't know how to recreate it. It doesn't happen very often like you said
    かかってきな。
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,704
    groovymame sounds really interesting from reading a bit about it.
    Play more.
  • RichterRichter ~~~00~~~ Joined: Posts: 1,878
    What's "guard jump" and should i start looking to incorporate this into my game?
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  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    edited December 2013
    Rictorxix wrote: »
    What's "guard jump" and should i start looking to incorporate this into my game?
    Hold up back before you wake up or during block stun and press grab just as you are about to leave the ground.

    You will jump out or tech a grab. This still leaves you vulnerable to lows but on the flipside causes an air reset situation if you get hit out of the air.

    I have been doing this since 2006. I'm sure there are old posts where I say it. In the Ken forum to be sure. But this move refers to something NicaKO has on a list of techniques saved on a text file that he compiled after talks with MOV.

    I'm sure there are noteworthy players willing to illustrate the technique in play via some match vids or something.

    edit: The MOV version of it refers to throwing out a guess and then jumping out before they can hit you. I have a rather in depth write up of this that I'm going to PM you. I don't really care for the drama that plays out here.

    Post edited by Dander on
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  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    edited December 2013
    god i wish dander would stop posting wrong information over and over again. worst thing is he's so convinced he knows everything.


    @rictorxix

    guard jump is a technique using the 6 frame throw invincibility window on wake up. you guard for those 6 frames, and jump. what this does is allow you to guard meaty attacks, and allows you to jump out of their throw attempt. the down side is the opponent can delay and time a move so that it hits you during the pre-jump frames. i recommend returning your joystick to crouch guard after inputting jump so you don't get hit by multi-hitting moves.

    what dander is trying to describe (incorrectly) is jump tech. jump tech is where you hide a throw tech inside your jump. this technique utilizes the fact that if you jump and push a button at the same time, the normal move you pressed wont come out. so if used correctly, you tech their throw if they attempt a throw, or you jump.

    guard jump isn't too difficult and i recommend putting it in your arsenal of defensive options. i know its common now for players to use this technique in japan. jump tech on the other hand is more difficult and im not too sure if its as commonly used. to simplify it, guard real quick on wake up, then tap jump to jump out of throws. just remember its not going to work if your opponent is delaying their okizeme, so sometimes its best to just guard. just being aware that you cannot be thrown for those initial 6 frames is good to know even if you decide not to practice this technique anytime soon.


    かかってきな。
  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    edited December 2013
    edit: The MOV version of it refers to throwing out a guess and then jumping out before they can hit you. I have a rather in depth write up of this that I'm going to PM you. I don't really care for the drama that plays out here.

    the mov version he's trying to refer to is simply parry jump (buro jump). not really a mov version, but just another jump technique in the game.

    this is similar to guard jump, except instead of guarding for those 6 frames, you input a parry. during a parry the game doesn't register jump inputs so if you get the parry you stay grounded and punish. if they tried to throw you jump out. like guard jump, this technique loses to delayed moves. remember this technique is still "guessing" so if you inputted the parry for the wrong direction youre going to get hit.

    if youre an intermediate player, i would recommend trying to incorporate guard jump and parry jump at least vs Q, Alex, and Makoto. (to beat their command throws)
    かかってきな。
  • exodusexodus anti-vid scrub advocate! Joined: Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Yuuki is such a bully, sigh
    .
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    edited December 2013
    Yuuki you just said the same thing I did but put a block where I put a parry and then you repeated what I said with fewer details. I'm done with you. I value education.
    or during block stun and press grab just as you are about to leave the ground.

    I swear...
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  • WTF-AKUMA-HAXWTF-AKUMA-HAX DBGT non canon > maxxvatar OVA Joined: Posts: 17,940
    Abare ending up Makoto flying around and not mounting the wall happened in one of the compilation videos yeah.

    Like the 3s "Selected Scene" series but this one was like bloopers or all about crazy & rare setups. Could have been "by Chinese players" or something to try to find it again, as written by eventhubs or SRK frontpage when they linked it up.

    The setup I remember was Makoto activating Super against Necro Magnetic Storm, so his pull suction kept her from reaching the wall. & when that happens the meter doesn't get wasted right? Because there's no super freeze on her end, because that starts on the wall.
    1999 = "A Game with Parries isn't Street Fighter"
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    People will forget what you said.
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  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    edited December 2013
    Abare ending up Makoto flying around and not mounting the wall happened in one of the compilation videos yeah.

    Like the 3s "Selected Scene" series but this one was like bloopers or all about crazy & rare setups. Could have been "by Chinese players" or something to try to find it again, as written by eventhubs or SRK frontpage when they linked it up.

    The setup I remember was Makoto activating Super against Necro Magnetic Storm, so his pull suction kept her from reaching the wall. & when that happens the meter doesn't get wasted right? Because there's no super freeze on her end, because that starts on the wall.

    This can also occur from random cross-up jumps, repeated fast dashes, or Oro double jumps. Those seem to be the most common cause . It happened to me twice in back to back matches against a friend haha.

    Also, I believe a dash under reverse SA2 from second Makoto can stop the first. I haven't done this in a long time, but I recall it being possible with a well timed dash = )

    Yeah, you're correct, no wasted meter either!

    *now to think of a way to get 2 Makoto's back flipping into each other....* That would be a neat trick.
  • KomatikKomatik Card demon Joined: Posts: 2,668
    edited January 2014
    Dunno if this is a good place to ask but I:
    Got fed up with AE and deleted it. I have a working knowledge of AE's system.
    Have been playing KOF13 a lot and love it. KOF13 neutral game just feels good and natural.
    Am interested in learning 3S. Can I get some pointers for how to play the neutral game, like what buttons are good at all in the first place (I mean AE Step Kick Ken is clearly ***** and so on :P), which super is the correct choice to get started? I'm eyeing Chun/Ken/Akuma as far as characters go atm.
    Steam/Fightcade:Coffeeling
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  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,885 mod
    I think most of the basic shoto pokes that are strong in AE are strong in 3s too like c.mk, c.mp, c.hk. Kens step kick in 3s isn't really nearly as useful as it is in AE.

    Chun is all about c.mk, hp and b.hp.

    For Chun, Ken and Akuma I'd say most of their normals have legitimate uses but these are the most useful ones.

    For super choice there is not really any ambiguity there...

    Ken - SA3
    Chun - SA2
    Akuma - SA1
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  • KomatikKomatik Card demon Joined: Posts: 2,668
    Thanks ^___^
    Steam/Fightcade:Coffeeling
    Xrd: ? | ST: Claw, Ryu, O.Sagat | 3S: Chun-Li, Akuma
  • RichterRichter ~~~00~~~ Joined: Posts: 1,878
    I was watching the most Rusty Parry stream from Super Arcade and one of the commentators said that Mike Watson only parries high. Any thoughts on this? Do any of you guys try and limit your parry attempts such as one parry a round?

    I think that this philosophy suits my play-style seeing as how I can't parry for shit. Will being inflexible and only parrying high hurt my defense in the long run?
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  • isotopezisotopez Joined: Posts: 125
    Parry is a good offensive tool too
  • ryan.ryan. Joined: Posts: 1,918
    They were just pointing out watsons habits.

    The last thing you need is the constant thought in your head thinking "omg I can only parry once in this round, when do I use it?"

    And I dont think you can be bad at parrying. You just tap down or tap forward and punish.

    Keep up the practicing

  • DuralathDuralath 3S Gatekeeper Joined: Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    The idea is never to revolve your game around one certain thing, hence why a lot of better players tell others not to try and parry everything.

    Limiting yourself to one parry per round already puts you at a disadvantage. What if you discover the opponent's tendency and can guarantee a better punish simply through a parry? It wouldn't be wise to limit it to one use.

    Remember. Everything in this game is a tool for you to use.
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    3rd Strike: Alex/Makoto/Yun
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    Shoot to thrill.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,704
    I think that kind of stuff is good for playing cpu when you're alone and just practicing.
    That's where you do things like not jump at all, never throw, only use xyz buttons, etc.

    But against another person you're just being a dick if you do that kind of stuff imo
    Play more.
  • yuukiyuuki Joined: Posts: 782
    I don't think practice defense, parry or a specific punish is rude. Infact by doing this, you force the other person to realize a flaw of theirs. If I can guard everything they do, they need to reevaluate their offense. if I go hyper aggressive on someone and they get hit too much, it shows them that their defense needs work.

    Only time I can see how this would be rude is if there is only 1 set up and there's a handful of people waiting to play. I did this recently at the arcade but it was only to show a friend a specific punish with makoto lol
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  • paperdragon42paperdragon42 Joined: Posts: 9
    Hi guys, first time poster (huge lurker) but been on and off playing FG for a number of years. Recently wanting to get back into FG so playing this and ssf4ae. My execution is fairly good but I'm no where near perfect. I currently main urien and yun but am deciding to move away from these and focus on oro which I have been playing for all of 3 days.

    I have a few questions that I think I'm in the right sub forum to ask. If these have been mention then let me know where I can get the advice on the forums.

    1) parrying, I know that parrying comes second to defences and I should concentrate on defense first but I'm struggling to deal most most shoto's low kick and medium kicks as hit confirms. I try to block it but I get mixed up (match up knowledge helps, I'm aware) and if I parry it seems they just spam those kicks out and I can do nothing but get hit into a combo.
    Other than playing against people is there anything you can suggest to help hone my skill in training room. I try to emulate the situation but no luck.

    Second comes down to playing with oro. Again I'm aware he plays differently to other characters and most of his games are spacing and zoning but is there any ways of getting that close medium punch into his chicken combos. I've read most of the oro guide and it helps with a lot but doesn't seem to help with getting that close mp. So much so I dont even bother trying to land it.

    One last thing, what training routines do you guys do to keep up to scratch. ATM I've been doing standard move motions repeated 50 times then the trials then my basic BnB combos (which I rarely land)

    Tl;dr I'm guess is play more and keep at it right xD
  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    shmupmame >>>>>> fba if we talk about emulated 3s
    gooby plz
  • NoMoreFunlandNoMoreFunland Perfection equals obliteration! Joined: Posts: 1,229
    @paperdragon42‌

    Parry timing and when to block instead comes with experience BUT I always hated that bland answer. You can and should go into training mode and practice parrying certain multi hit moves for a feeling of that timing. Also just try setting up Ken to stick out low medium kick then stick it out again right after. Try to get that timing down to parry the second kick, that gives you a defensive parry option. Obviously you can be baited for that parry then punished high but it's a start.

    Having said that, being able to block low and react high well is stronger than all sorts of guess parry or buffer parry options imo. With time one learns to react to the startup animations of some moves and parry as they come out.

    I'm still an intermediate Oro so I still have some trouble landing close medium punch launcher but here are some options.

    -dash/jump/walk/UOH into throw range after conditioning throw tech and low parry. If they are low teching throw with cr.lp then you will get the launcher from the parry

    -jumping mk tick and parry as you land then cl.mp if they seem to stick out normals after you cross them up on landing

    -(I think) you can UOH and have it hit meaty on their wakeup which allows you to combo into cl.mp

    -parry a jump in and punish while they in the air with cl.mp into chicken

    -dash under a jump in and start chicken from other side. Can be risky if you commit to chicken and they parry the mp

    -you can option select parry with cl.mp and throw to catch normals or low techs in general. Timing is tight to do it properly so I don't use it much but I imagine it can make his throw game more scary if you have a super stocked

    @Chad‌ can amend or elaborate and add to this I imagine.
  • paperdragon42paperdragon42 Joined: Posts: 9
    Okay not be rude but I didn't understand much of what you said. I don't think I'm in any state to atart baiting anything xD

    I appreciate all your input. Been doing the sash under jumps and been abusing the resets and my buddy completely oblivious how to stop them. But I'm using it as practice on execution.

    The parry/block is coming to me. The way I am looking at it. I'm not parry anything until I know I can block better and not get opened up so easily. If that means I lose out on wake up games and mix ups I can handle that till I get my defenses down.

    I've been trying to cross up with the chicken feet and I've managed a few times to combo off a chicken fear when they are on wake up super close to the ground. I know I have a lit of work to do.
    And have tried the jumping medium kick but I just get thrown. Is it a link?

    Thanks for the input man. I'm on xbla if you ever wanted to have a game. Or something like footsies only xD
  • pootnanniespootnannies mr. negative Joined: Posts: 3,146
    as far as oro goes, parrying cr. mk from shotos and chun is going to depend on distance. there's not a lot you can do unless you're close enough where a fast normal will come out and hit them before parry stun ends. standing mk has further reach than the shotos cr. mk so you can out poke them rather than trying to parry it. you can also mp+mk over the cr. mk but oro's version is kinda ass and i don't think you can do much afterwards. best is to just keep trying and get creative.
    dashing under jump-ins for chicken combos works but your opponent will figure out to just parry backwards after you cross under them. all good dudley players do this lol. you just have to create a frame trap where your close mp will beat out most of their options. it's risky but the reward is very high.
    i think you need to practice chicken combos so much that you don't think about it anymore when doing it in training mode. then when the opportunity arrives in a real match, you'll land them a lot more often. don't forget about close mk into hp command grab. it's a great punish, builds a lot of meter and stun.


    “... keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.”

    psn: pootnannies
    ggpo: whodat?
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  • pootnanniespootnannies mr. negative Joined: Posts: 3,146
    Hol Horse wrote: »
    shmupmame >>>>>> fba if we talk about emulated 3s

    what's this now? i never heard of shmupmame but i'm glad you posted that


    “... keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.”

    psn: pootnannies
    ggpo: whodat?
    CFN: JawnPolygon
  • HexSellsHexSells Joined: Posts: 367
    charge buffering:

    i've read guide after guide but none of them tell me if i'm supposed to be cutting the time for charging or if buffering simply makes it easier to get a tackle out.
    "play to get better, not to win."
  • isotopezisotopez Joined: Posts: 125
    You still charge for the full time. Buffering basically allows you to start charging earlier for your next move.
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    With charge partitioning you're working at the charge quotient level. With buffering you're doing the whole thing all at once, it's just offset.
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  • telesnipertelesniper Joined: Posts: 365
    HexSells wrote: »
    charge buffering:

    i've read guide after guide but none of them tell me if i'm supposed to be cutting the time for charging or if buffering simply makes it easier to get a tackle out.

    Buffering doesn't work in 3S like most people think it does, if you buffer a charge in before executing the move, you meter does begin to 're'charge, however, once you start the move, the charge meter starts building all over again. This just means that perfect buffering in 10 frames of charge (or anywhere in between) has zero effect on the meter over not buffering and just starting to charge on the next frame.
  • HexSellsHexSells Joined: Posts: 367
    thanks for clearing that up everyone.
    "play to get better, not to win."
  • HexSellsHexSells Joined: Posts: 367
    edited April 2014
    can you TTH Remy?

    been trying for a bit and unless I'm not getting the timing right (which I'm comfortable with), there's something I must be missing.

    Edit:

    I tried TTHing Yun and I can't get it on him, so the issue is me. I can TTH every shoto just fine, so what am I missing?
    "play to get better, not to win."
  • ryan.ryan. Joined: Posts: 1,918
    Must be mk mk tacke. Tight timing is all you need.
  • HexSellsHexSells Joined: Posts: 367
    thanks.

    woo boy, that timing is indeed tight.
    you have all the time in the world to hit the second tackle on shotos but this is like learning how to TTH all over again.
    "play to get better, not to win."
  • DanderDander BANNED Joined: Posts: 7,227
    Won't you just be using this new timing on all the other characters, though? That sounds worth it. And now you can tell the new players to start with Remy.
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  • HexSellsHexSells Joined: Posts: 367
    that was what i planned on doing.
    gonna be trying to hit this all day today.
    "play to get better, not to win."
  • RichterRichter ~~~00~~~ Joined: Posts: 1,878
    Anybody have matchup strategy for Yang (Me) vs Yun (opponent)? Any anti-Yun strategy is welcome in general.

    I was wondering if I shouldn't even worry about Yun building meter or if I should rush Yun to prevent him from building meter. What do you guys do versus a Yun player?
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