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  • DevdanDevdan Joined: Posts: 538
    edited February 2015
    I'm pretty crappy compared to a lot of people here, and I've only been playing about a year and a half, and mostly online, but here's some advicce anyway.

    Don't call Yun a cheeseball character. Ken is considered better than Yun by some of the best players these days, or at least as good. Yun is also really hard to learn how to use well, where other characters have a much easier time cheesing in lag (Urien and Alex especially). I suppose that's just my opinion, but even doing Yun's bnb (and finding legit ways to start it) seems way harder to me than any other character's mandatory damage dealing methods. Also, people drop on Yun a lot, which is pretty frustrating for me especially, because I have way too many subs, and I'm not even good with Yun so usually when I'm winning I feel like I deserve it...

    Also, don't get hung up on parries at this stage of the game. Learning to block well is way more important. Learn how to parry stuff in training mode, sure, but don't be too stressed about using it. Parrying is almost always a risk. Knowing how to parry stuff is great, but it's not mandatory very often. If you watch high level play, you'll see a lot less parrying than you see from a lot of online players. Honestly, I still suck at it a lot, but I'm at least good enough that I win around 60% of my ranked matches; which is sort of a meaningless statistic, but it's better than the 1/4 I was sitting at for the first few months I played. I don't understand how some people parry so much online, because in lag I can't even parry spammed moves consistently.

    For you main, basically everyone except Sean and Twelve are viable, but if you actually want to get good at the game please do not use either of them. The odds of there being a breakthrough 16 years into this game's life for either of them seems quite low. I'd mess around with learning bnbs and basic gameplay strats for whoever you find fun, and when you start feeling like you're using somebody correctly, stick with that character. That's what I did with Dudley, anyway. He was the 5th character I tried to main, and things went better with him than Yang, Q, Akuma, or Yun pretty much instantly, so I stuck with him. I still sub way too many characters, but I try to at least use Dudley somewhat every time I play.

    Oh, and don't try to start out with Akuma either, he's too complicated. Learn Ken or Ryu before learning Akuma, because their basics apply. People told me that, and I got super angry, thinking they were being condescending. But it turns out its true. Akuma has tons of tricks that there's no sense in learning at the point of the game you're at. You'll always be able to cheese some people with jump back fireballs online (I still struggle against it with dudley sometimes), but that kind of play doesn't foster improvement. Also, pretty much everybody online (including me, when used him) gets way too greedy with Raging Demon and KKZ. They are RARELY worth using. His SA1 is a better option 90%+ of the time. His EX supers are satisfying, but very hard to guarantee. People use them as hail marrys way too much online, and you'll wind up throwing the match against players who are paying attention. I can't tell you how many times I've been about to lose to an Akuma, but I won instead because I baited KKZ, which gave me free EX machinegun combo.

    Hopefully some of that was useful.
  • ryan.ryan. Joined: Posts: 1,918
    edited February 2015
    Character strength doesn't matter at a beginner to intermediate level.

    I believe you must learn the game before learning a character.

    Lose the attitude about "YES I do study strategies." You must be open minded and realize you know nothing.

    Watching match videos is one of the best tools. And not randoms streams. I mean top player videos.

    Learn your combos.
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,887 mod
    you should focus on less games and less characters. pick a character and stick with it. no matter who you pick there are videos of top players playing that character (besides Sean). try to understand what they do, try to do the things they do, and if you don't understand why they don't work for you, you can come back here with more specific questions :) It's very hard to give people generic tips to improve. If you're a real beginner you just have a lot of legwork in front of you.
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,526
    Focus on the basics first, it's going to make you better at playing any character and even any game. Learn when to push what buttons(and at what ranges), learn to anti-air, learn to punish things on whiff and block, learn basic offensive mix-up patterns. Play a character you like, regardless of whether the character is considered strong or weak: it doesn't matter much before people start getting really good.

    Don't bother with parrying before you've got the basics down. It's a great tool when you understand how the game "flows", but it's probably going to get you killed a lot before you reach that level.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,526
    I have a question about typical forward-moving specials (Alex elbows, Urien tackles, Q dash attacks, Yun Lungepunch, Remy blue-something-kick, probably others): how safe/unsafe do they tend to be on block? I know Alex's elbows are pretty bad on block, and Q is semi-safe but negative, but I have no idea about the other ones. I've seen a lot of good Uriens in particular just throw out tackles, so I'm a bit curious to how safe that is as Urien is a character I like quite a bit myself.
  • darkhiryuudarkhiryuu Hello Hella Joined: Posts: 202
    edited March 2015
    Alex Slash Elbow: LK: -2, MK/HK: -8, EX: -6
    Urien Chariot Tackle: LK: -10, MK: -11, HK: -12, EX: -9
    Q Dash Punch: LP/MP: -2, HP: -3, EX: -21
    Yun Dash Punch: LP/MP/HP: -11, EX: -2
    Remy Cold Blue Kick: LK/MK: -4, HK: -6, EX: -2 (All are +5 if only the tip of his foot hits you at the end of the animation)
    Post edited by darkhiryuu on
  • RichterRichter ~~~00~~~ Joined: Posts: 1,904
    I read on here and other places on the internet that some players like to practice using arcade mode. Sounds like a good idea but I was wondering what should I focus on when playing arcade mode. Here are things I can think of:
    -Spacing/Ground Game
    -Punishing any unsafe move at a moment's notice
    -Hit confirming and continuing offense

    Any other suggestions?
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  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,526
    Spacing/ground game is something I think you need a human opponent to practice against, simply because an entity that reads your inputs and has a preprogrammed AI will play a completely different game compared to a human.
    Case in point: one of my training partners in ST played a guy who was a high-score monster in that game, as in "perfect the fuck out of every CPU and then beat Shin Akuma". He was extremely proficient at playing against the AI, but he got completely destroyed when he tried to play an actual human being that reacted completely differently in almost any scenario.

    As for punishing stuff and hit-confirming? Yeah, arcade works for that. =)
  • ryan.ryan. Joined: Posts: 1,918
    i use arcade mode for spacing and ground game. CPU does not act like a human, but it sometimes does unorthodox things that give me ideas.
  • KabaL17KabaL17 Joined: Posts: 10
    i use arcade mode to practice execution on my punishes from different ranges, cpu is pretty predictable after a while
  • free_manfree_man Joined: Posts: 81
    It was tested only on PS2 version: Yun's EX lunge will cross all characters, except Ibuki, Q, Remy and Yang, if they parry it at the corner. This is a bug?
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,526
    edited July 2015
    After some games yesterday where a lot of my losses stemmed from getting jumped in on, or rather getting my attempted AA option beaten, I've realized I need to change my approach to the anti-air game. I usually expend a lot of my focus on the ground game to get whiff punishes/dash in throws and tend to not react as well as I'd like to people taking to the air. I've mitigated this weakness for quite some time by trying to space myself at the end of the jump arc of my opponent to get a clean DP that's easy to react to (i.e. the ST approach), but as people have gotten better, this approach seems worse and worse, especially since I'm not really standing at that spot anymore when playing the ground game / trying to get in.

    The options I tend to use with Ken, and the disadvantages I can see with each of them, are:
    - DP (gets beaten by parries, seems to trade against Q j.HK often which is not in my favor, and I'm really bad at doing them on reaction if I'm crouching when the jump comes)
    - c.HP/s.HP (somewhat slow, easily parried for massive damage, loses/trades often, seems like the lazy option)
    - EX air tatsu (strictly prediction, requires meter, great damage though)
    - nj.MK (usually prediction, really bad if they didn't jump)
    - jump-back j.HK (gives up space, requires early reaction)
    - dash-under into throw/combo (prediction. Also gives a million style points when done successfully)
    - trip-guard c.HK / c.MK xx super (only guaranteed if they whiffed their jump-in, great against air-tatsus though)

    One option I realize I don't use enough is OS parry into jab. I thought a bit about it last night, and it seems like a really hard option to beat, and possibly one that nets me a mix-up afterwards, even though the damage itself is abysmal, so it starts making sense when people say that s.LP is the best AA in the game (though I assume there's usually a parry OS in there as well). Is there anything to this option that I should know before I start trying to implement it? And are there any other good AA options I'm missing out on?
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,711
    A lot of people will parry immediately again if they parry something while jumping in.

    Since the next expected thing is either another jab if you're just mashing jabs or something.
    Or a special cancel, or even super.

    You didn't mention special cancels, i'm not sure why. but they usually have really varied timing. like shoryu, hadou and tatsu are all going to hit different at different times.

    It's all so specific though. A lot depends on the jump arc and characters. You already know the answers it's just keeping it fresh. Including just letting them land/blocking.
    Play more.
  • WTF-AKUMA-HAXWTF-AKUMA-HAX V-ISM BOB SAGAT 30th Anniversary Joined: Posts: 18,101
    Naeras wrote: »
    - DP (gets beaten by parries, seems to trade against Q j.HK often which is not in my favor, and I'm really bad at doing them on reaction if I'm crouching when the jump comes)
    If Q is jumping at you with that. block or get out of the way.

    Consider, looking at Q sometime, to understand. He can't do anything huge from a jump in, really unless he hits that. You block that or aren't even there, then what is he going to do? Just flail or put himself in a bad position by even wanting to jump at you in a neutral position where you have all the options.

    If its online, say so considering latency removes options and jumps occur more for risk reward.

    You can go deeper and look at how he might use that as a block tick to make you stand there and not be prepared for CDB Command Grab. So you don't want to try backdash after blocking, but back dash before he kicks you is fine. Since you may be in a bad spot to commit. Like already in the corner. But I guess you need to explain more on how that's not in your favor, like you are too late and eating the fat combo, or what happened after he got sent down with the trade that even helped him. Since him getting knocked out of the air with a special should be a knockdown for you. Its not a position where he gets to combo off of the trade.
    - dash-under into throw/combo (prediction. Also gives a million style points when done successfully)
    Not really a prediction. You can react to jumps fine, where that's considered now they made a mistake and dash under only if they gave you the room to do that and they're not already all over you incoming. Versus jumping on you waking up, them doing it in that position being meaty forcing it on you, not giving you the room/time to dash. They had the advantage to set it up and take away those options.

    There was a player who trained himself to dash on reaction, I think to just jump backs, he talked about once. There's no reason why you couldn't do the same to jump forward. Or in your way remember tendencies of a player, and what they can do + what they like to do here, so even though its a prediction, its an educated one you expected in that situation.
    1999 = "A Game with Parries isn't Street Fighter"
    2016 = "Releasing a Complete Game isn't Street Fighter"
    You wouldn't even understand if I told you.
    People will forget what you said.
    People will forget what you did.
    But, people will never forget how you made them feel.

  • 3rdStrikeAnnouncer3rdStrikeAnnouncer Joined: Posts: 102
    Yeah, that makes sense!
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,711
    can we ban the announcer guy.

    yeah as haxalot said on walk unders it has everything to do with just knowing when they decide to jump if they're close enough to make it or not.
    it's a prediction on the jumpers part not the one being jumped-in on. the jumper is expecting you to do something like throw out a normal and wants to get a fat jump-in combo. risky.
    Play more.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,526
    When I said that the DP trade with Q j.HK wasn't in my favor, I meant damage wise. MP or HP DP definitely do less damage than a j.HK on a trade, LP I believe is closer but still does less damage that what I'm trading with.

    It should also be noted that a lot of the problems I'm mentioning here comes from playing that very same Q-player offline, and 70% of my losses against him comes from him getting a jump-in. He makes a point of not trying to play the mid-range game against me and therefore jumps a lot, and a lot of the time I'm not getting the good end of the bargain when he does. After seeing your responses here, it just makes it even more clear that this problem is entirely my own fault for having sloppy AAs / making bad decisions in the AA department.

    Thanks for the insights, guys. =)
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,711
    If that's often an issue for you just try crouching when he jumps in. Because you're crouching the only timing when the jump in will hit is smaller, meaning your timing for a successful parry becomes more obvious/easier (he can't do an early jump in to mess with you since you're too low to be hit).

    Also since Q's fierce/roundhouse are so pretty slow you'll see it coming since he will have to do it long before he is anywhere near the ground.
    Play more.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,526
    So, new random question: when you guys decide to go for a parry, what factors influence that decision? Currently I'm mostly using parries in a rather limited fashion, i.e. punishing telegraphed moves, or as part of semi-gimmicky setups (like using a negative-on-block move up close -> parry). Most my attempts to be fancy or clever with parries beyond that end up me getting hit by something, so I think my decision making behind parrying needs some thought.
  • TebboTebbo Play. Joined: Posts: 5,711
    It's really not like that is I guess what I would say. There aren't default spots or anything imo.
    It depends entirely on your opponent and how well you can understand their rhythm and the kinds of things they prefer.

    You get a bit of a read and then you start throwing them out in places where if you don't actually parry, nothing negative happens.
    Then you start parrying them a bit and then they start looking to punish your parries, etc. x infinity.

    You could classify those in the way you kind of did but the why is much more important. If you start looking at your play and you don't have a really good reason as to why you tried to parry in a certain spot, that really indicates you're using parry in a way which can be turned against you.
    Play more.
  • MochaLatteMochaLatte Joined: Posts: 1,163
    edited November 2015
    Started playing 3rd strike a few days ago, I feel like I'm getting gimmicked out by a few things since i'm just too unfamiliar

    Urien's headbutts: Am I supposed to parry those on reaction or prediction?
    Oro: Goofy ass jump arc altering moves, don't really know how to approach anti airing him
    Remy: That dive kick move he has, should I be parrying those on reaction?

    Also is there any info I can find on punishing moves in general? I only have a slight idea on what's punishable and what isn't

    Thanks in advance
  • DevdanDevdan Joined: Posts: 538
    If you've only been playing for a few days, I'd hate you if you were parrying ANYTHING on reaction. In what situation would you be parrying Urien's headbutt on reaction? It's fast. It's also not a very viable reversal. Even the ex version tends to only trade with meaties. Oro being hard to anti-air is kind of his thing. Cold blue kick is weird, if it were easier to parry people wouldn't use it so much. If you've only been playing for a few days, parrying should be used almost exclusively for hadoukens, and in chip death situations. Blocking is underrated.

    I'm not great, but that's what I have to say.
  • GaijinblazeGaijinblaze fingerlicans Joined: Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    youre not supposed to parry headbutts unless youre already in the air and you have to. planning your strategy around urien's unique tools like headbutt is part of the challenge of the urien matchup. headbutt has some main characteristics to note:

    -beats throws (not on the first frame, but still)
    -goes over lows
    -can anti-air opponents who are on the way up or down
    -is briefly vulnerable when he lands
    -if it doesnt hit, will typically lead to urien throwing if he lands within throw range

    so, keep a mental note that you have to use moves differently against urien based on those traits. the footsie game is modified because he can go over lows, oki throws or tick throws are riskier, poorly planned jumps can lead to knockdown or a full combo, etc. know all of this in advance and have answers to it. your oki game will be changed to compensate for headbutt and the value of a close range wakeup parry for urien. no version of headbutt will ever trade with meaties, otherwise it wasnt a meaty.

    oro can only double jump once, so if he does this, he cant alter his trajectory again. imo reactive air to airs shut down mediocre oros. use early j.hk with shotos, j.mp/hp with dudley, etc. or dash underneath and anti air from the other side or get him to land on a low.

    cbk is annoying because it counts as an air move, so the parry timing is stricter. same reason why tsurugi and certain other air moves are hard to parry. parrying it slightly later than you would expect works pretty well for me. unfortunately, unless all other aspects of your game are godly, this is one of those "you have to know how to parry this" moves.

    who are you using?
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  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,526
    edited November 2015
    A couple quick questions in regards to some Dudley combos:

    - about Ducking xx Super, about how early in the ducking animation do you have to cancel into the super? And which version of the Ducking is recommended for this?
    - are there any shortcuts to be used for the HCF in c.MP xx ducking xx super? Or do you have to actually input it as d+MP, b, HCF, K to get the c.MP cancelled into ducking? I thought I got it a few times without leaving d/b, but I couldn't get it consistently.
    - When doing f.HK - SA3, is it common that one of the hits of the super whiffs? I think I've got the link down ~90% of the time, but even when the dummy doesn't block, it often registers as 5 hits rather than 6, so I'm not quite sure. I do piano the super, in case there's any difference between the versions.

    Really having fun with Duds. It's a long time since last I found a character that made me want to practice combos in any game.
  • pheraipherai LIVE FOREVER Joined: Posts: 11,887 mod
    different versions of sa3 move dudley forward different distances, so using jab sa3 might explain why you're missing a hit, unless you're practicing on a standing dummy :)
    pherai gouki dated gwen stefani in HighSchool. Thats why today she likes all things Japan. smokin.gif
  • exodusexodus anti-vid scrub advocate! Joined: Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Naeras wrote: »
    - about Ducking xx Super, about how early in the ducking animation do you have to cancel into the super? And which version of the Ducking is recommended for this?

    LK and MK versions have different speeds and travel distances. MK gives you a reasonable amount of time to confirm, but downside is you can be punished if they block (occasionally can be helped if you space yourself max distance). Depending on the timing of the cancel and the strength you use, you must also use the proper SA3 strength. LP hardly moves you forward, HP moves you forward a great deal. Just practice and think about when and why you use duck. Generally, stMP/crMP -> LK duck and stHK -> MK duck are the most commonly used ones.
    Naeras wrote: »
    - are there any shortcuts to be used for the HCF in c.MP xx ducking xx super? Or do you have to actually input it as d+MP, b, HCF, K to get the c.MP cancelled into ducking? I thought I got it a few times without leaving d/b, but I couldn't get it consistently.

    In general, you want your movements as clean and precise as possible. As such, you should be doing:

    crMP (neutral) HCF (kick) HCF (punch)

    Getting neutral in between directionals is highly advised, as you will be hitting neutral quite often in high level gameplay as a result of neutral game movement. It also discourages sloppy inputs, which is just bad in general as it lends to much more executional mistakes.
    Naeras wrote: »
    - When doing f.HK - SA3, is it common that one of the hits of the super whiffs? I think I've got the link down ~90% of the time, but even when the dummy doesn't block, it often registers as 5 hits rather than 6, so I'm not quite sure. I do piano the super, in case there's any difference between the versions.

    Unless I'm mistaken, it should never be 5 hits. Depending on who you do it against and at what ranges and which version of the SA you go with, there will be inconsistencies (Makoto is a big culprit) that lead you to not linking it. If you land the HK from afar, you have to account for the extra distance you created which must be covered by the SA3 (if you hit it far, you must use HP version...). Generally speaking, just never make it 5 hits!
    Naeras wrote: »
    Really having fun with Duds. It's a long time since last I found a character that made me want to practice combos in any game.

    That's good! He's a very rewarding character that has his own unique challenges and strengths. Stick with it, and when you get to a high level, start learning more characters!
    .
  • ryan.ryan. Joined: Posts: 1,918
    Regarding Cr mp duck cork, you can just roll the stick from back to crouch (hit mp) and then towards drum super. It's the same with necro cr lk hooks. There is no neutral needed.

    Dart cork can be 5 hits in rare scenarios where you get the first 4 and miss the last one. 1+4. Basically as long as the first hit connects after dart you got it. Vs makoto it doesn't connect unless you're right on top of her. That's why some dudleys use rocket against her.

    It's ironic exodus giving tips about dart cork. ;)
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,526
    Did some more testing. The 5-hit thing was just the 3SOE-dummy being... well, a dummy. For some reason it doesn't auto-block the first frame after hitstun, so the super won't get blocked if I miss the link by 1 frame. This didn't happen if I plugged in a second stick and jammed it in downback so that the dummy would crouchblock. Which is probably what I'll do if I practice combos on OE in the future, because this shit annoyed me.
    So, what I thought was 90% consistency was more like 60-70%, it turns out. Sads. I need to practice more then.

    The reason why I asked about c.MP xx Ducking without leaving crouch was because that would make it a lot easier to do it if I'm using c.MP defensively, as it means I won't let go of downback. This means there's a lot more commitment to doing c.MP xx ducking xx super defensively. Oh well.
  • IglooBobIglooBob Bob the builder Joined: Posts: 4,039
    There's also an option for auto block right? Can use that for execution, then once you're comfortable with your execution change it to random block.
  • GaijinblazeGaijinblaze fingerlicans Joined: Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    the dummy has always done that in 3s ports when they have no health. avoid that scenario by using the save state feature once the dummy gets low on health. obviously you can also do it every time you do the link to save time, but some people may feel that the constant change in game flow is more of a hindrance than a benefit.

    btw, aim to cancel the duck as early as possible, because s.mp x mk duck into corkscrew sometimes doesn't combo by one frame. it's annoying as hell.
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  • ryan.ryan. Joined: Posts: 1,918
    You shouldn't be doing moves into duck looking for a confirm too often. Duck isn't safe and you will die. It's best used for whiff punishing or counterpokes. It takes time to be able to know when and how to use it. Sticking out cr mp defensively sounds really bad and unsafe anyways.

    The easiest way to practice dart super is to record the dummy crouching for 5 seconds. Then walk up to crouch guarding dummy and press save state. Now do dart cork reload. Dart cork reload. Practice on both sides.
  • NaerasNaeras Terribad Joined: Posts: 3,526
    edited November 2015
    the dummy has always done that in 3s ports when they have no health. avoid that scenario by using the save state feature once the dummy gets low on health. obviously you can also do it every time you do the link to save time, but some people may feel that the constant change in game flow is more of a hindrance than a benefit.

    btw, aim to cancel the duck as early as possible, because s.mp x mk duck into corkscrew sometimes doesn't combo by one frame. it's annoying as hell.
    In addition to the no health-scenario, the 3SOE-dummy doesn't block for the first frame after hitstun even if it's set on auto-block. It WILL block if you miss the link by 2 frames though. It's annoying as hell.
    @ryan. that's a good suggestion, I'll try that the next time. Thanks!
    Post edited by Naeras on
  • dtgodmage22dtgodmage22 Joined: Posts: 346
    i just picked up 3s for fightcade and im clueless how to use dudley or get the traning mode to work properly luckly i can put on player 2 and just practice combos that way wish i had a proper traning mode anyone play online edition on ps4 using ps now?
  • IbokiIboki Joined: Posts: 209
    i just picked up 3s for fightcade and im clueless how to use dudley or get the traning mode to work properly luckly i can put on player 2 and just practice combos that way wish i had a proper traning mode anyone play online edition on ps4 using ps now?

  • dtgodmage22dtgodmage22 Joined: Posts: 346
    yeah thats what i got on but ilke the ai still wants to fight me with unlimted health
  • IbokiIboki Joined: Posts: 209
    Sounds fine to me then. Don't play any fighting game on PS Now.
  • BelegormBelegorm Too Cool For You Joined: Posts: 280
    Just wondering, is there any word on which major the next big 3S event's going to be? I want to go to 1-2 majors this year and there being the presence of either ST or 3S will probably make me decide on which.
    This is where you list the characters for games you may or may not play!
  • Ryu24Ryu24 Retired 3S Titan Joined: Posts: 1,427
    Feb 20, Brooklyn NY
  • fischbsfischbs stop that Joined: Posts: 1,175
    What is the difference between the light blue hurtbox for Yun and the regular blue hurtbox? http://i.imgur.com/4458T6O.png
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