Every Day is SMP Day: The Naoto Thread

NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
This thread is intended for discussion of gameplay and strategies for everyone's favorite reverse-trap, Naoto Shirogane.

Why Pick Naoto?
  • Highly mobile
  • Good zoning with traps and shots
  • #1 damage in the game with meter or One More Burst (can even kill Kanji in one touch with the right starter)
  • Fate system gives her situational comboable instant kills (separate from the extreme damage she gets from her SMP loops)
Weaknesses:
  • Low damage without meter or burst
  • Relatively high execution barrier, especially for her stronger midscreen combos
  • Low health (8000, second-worst only to Elizabeth)
  • Terrible options under pressure without meter.
Fate Data:
Fate is Naoto's special system. The enemy starts with 13 fate, which is lost to certain attacks. When returning to neutral after being reduced to 0 fate, the Fate Counter icon will turn red. Connecting with :qcf::qcf:+:snkc: or :qcf::qcf::snkd: while the enemy is in red skull state is instantly fatal. At the beginning of a new round, the enemy gets half of their lost fate (rounded up) back unless they died to :qcf::qcf:+:snkc: or :qcf::qcf:+:snkd:, in which case they regain the full 13 fate. With the exception of :qcf::qcf:+:snkb:, only the first Fate-removing attack in a combo will remove Fate.
(Aim)~:snka:/:snkb:/:snkc: (5th shot): -1
:qcb::qcb::snka:/:snkb:~:snkb:: -1 per shot (Mostly just a waste of meter)
:d:+:snkc:: -2
:snkc:+:snkd:~:snkc:: -2
:snkb:+:snkd:~:f:+:atk:: -2
:snkb:+:snkd:~:atk:: -3
:qcb:+:snkc:/:snkd:: -3
:qcf::qcf:+:snkb:: -6

Combos:
Combo Notes:
  • :uf::f: means IAD, or instant air dash.
  • Unless otherwise noted, :f::f::atk: means microdash :atk:; cancel your dash into :atk: such that Naoto slides forwards slightly during the attack's startup frames.
  • :d:+[:snkc:] means "hold :d:+:snkc:". This is the three hit version of the attack.
  • [sequence of commands]xN means "repeat sequence of commands N times"
  • When doing the [:qcf:+:snkb:~:snkd:]xN part of SMP loops, you can hold :snkd: and just focus on linking the :qcf:+:snkb:s together.
Midscreen Combos:
(WIP, mostly simple stuff thus far. Currently updating to use icons instead of 'numpad' notation to make the thread more accessible.)
5AA starter:
  • :snka::snka::snkc: :qcf:+:snkb:~:snkc:x5 (2107 damage, -1 fate)
  • :snka::snka::snkb::snkc::d:+:snkc: (1011 damage, -2 fate)
2A starter:
  • :d:+:snka: :d:+:snkb: :snkb: :snkc: :d::snka:+:snkb: :qcb:+:snkc:/:snkd: (936 damage, trap setup)
5B starter:
  • :snkb: :snkc: :qcf:+:snkb:~:snkd: :f:[:f:] :snkc: :qcf:+:snka:~:snkd: (setup :qcb:+:snkc:/:snkd:oki)
    • Easy version of the combo below, try and learn that one instead.
  • :snkb::snkc: :qcf::snkb:~:snkd: :f:[:f:]:snkc: :uf::f: j.:snkb: j.:snkc: :snkc: :qcf::snka:~:snkd: (setup :qcb:+:snkc:/:snkd: for oki)
2B starter:
  • Antiair :d:+:snkb: :snkc: :uf::f: j.:snkb: j.:snkc: :f::f::snkc: :qcf:+:snkb:~:snkd: :f:[:f:] (delay) :snkc: :uf::f: j.:snkb: j.:snkc: :f::f::snkc: :qcf:+:snka:~:snkd: (setup :qcb:+:snkc:/:snkd: for oki)
5C starter:
  • :snkc: :qcf:+:snkb:~:snkD: :f:[:f:] :snkc: :qcf:+:snka:~:snkd: (setup :qcb:+:snkc:/:snkd:)
    • Easy, try and learn the one below instead.
  • :snkc: :qcf:+:snkb:~:snkD: :f:[:f:] :snkc: :uf::f: j.:snkb: j.:snkc: :snkc: :qcf:+:snka:~:snkd: (setup :qcb:+:snkc:/:snkd: oki)
  • :snkc: (counter, opponent crouching only) :uf::f: j.:snkc: :snka: :snkc: :qcf::snkb:~:snkd: :f:[:f:]:snkc: :uf::f: j.:snkb: j.:snkc: :snkc: :qcf::snka:~:snkd: (setup :qcb:+:snkc:/:snkd: for oki)
  • :snkc: (counter, opponent crouching only) :uf::f: j.:snkc: :snka: :snkc: :uf::f: j.:snka:+:snkc: j.:snkc::snka::snkc: :qcf:+:snkb: (end with ~:snkd: or ~:snkc:x5 for oki and damage respectively.)
  • :snkc: (counter, opponent standing only) :uf::f: j.:snkc: :snkb: :snkc: :qcf::snkb:~:snkd: :f:[:f:]:snkc: :uf::f: j.:snkb: j.:snkc: :snkc: :qcf::snka:~:snkd: (setup :qcb:+:snkc:/:snkd: for oki)
  • :snkc: (counter, opponent standing only) :uf::f: j.:snkc: :snkb: :snkc: :uf::f: j.:snka:+:snkc: j.:snkc::snkb::snkc: :qcf:+:snkb: (end with ~:snkd: or ~:snkc:x5 for oki and damage respectively.)
Throw starter:
  • :snkc:+:snkd:~:snkc: :qcf::qcf:+:snkb:
Special starter:
  • (Aim)~:snka:x5 :qcf::qcf:+:snka:
  • (Aim)~:snka:x5 [:qcb::qcb: ~ :snka:x3 ~ :snkc:/:snkd:]x2
  • :qcb:+:snkd: (hit) :snkc: :uf::f: j.:snkb: j.:snkc: :f::f::snkc: :qcf:+:snkb:~:snkd: :f:[:f:] (delay) :snkc: :uf::f: j.:snkb: j.:snkc: :f::f::snkc: :qcf:+:snka:~:snkd: (setup :qcb:+:snkc:/:snkd: for oki)
The SMP Loop:
The SMP loop is where Naoto gets her extreme damage. Most variants require the enemy to be near the corner.
  • :snka::snka::snkb::d:+:snkc::qcf::qcf:+:snkd: :uf::f:(empty IAD) :qcb:+:snkd::d::snka:+:snkb: :qcf:+:snka:~:snkd:(trap hits, delay):d:+[:snkc:] :snkc: [:qcf:+:snkb:~:snkd:]x11 :qcf:+:snka:~:snkd:
  • :snkb::snkc::d:+:snkc: :qcf::qcf::snkd: (delay) :uf::f: (empty IAD) :qcb:+:snkd: :snka::snka: :qcf:+:snka:~:snkd: (trap hits) :d:+[:snkc:] (delay) :d:+:snkb: [:qcf:+:snkb:~:snkd:] x N :qcf:+:snka:~:snkd:
  • :d::snka:+:snkb: :qcf::snka:~:snkb:x5 :qcf::qcf:+:snkd: :qcb:+:snkc: :qcf::snka:~:snkd: (C trap hits) :qcb:+:snkd:, :qcf:+:snka:~:snkd: (D trap hits) :d:+[:snkc:] :snkb::snkc: [:qcf:+:snkb:~:snkd:]x5 :qcf:+:snka:~:snkd:
  • :qcb:+:snkd:(hit) :d:+:snka: :snka:x4~:snkc:x5 :qcf::qcf:+:snkd: :d:+[:snkc:] :snkc: [:qcf:+:snkb:~:snkd:] x N
  • :snkc:+:snkd:~:snkc: :qcf::qcf:+:snkd: :uf::f: :qcb:+:snkc: :qcb:+:snkd: :qcf:+:snka:~:snkb:(1)~:snkd: :d:+[:snkc:] :d:+:snkb: :snkc: [:qcf:+:snkb:~:snkd:] x11 :qcf:+:snka:~:snkd:
    • This combo does not work on Teddie.
  • :qcb::qcb:+:snka:/:snkb:~:snkc:/:snkd: (FC) OMB :d:+[:snkc:] :qcf::qcf:+:snkd: :qcb:+:snkd: :qcf:+:snka:~:snkd: :d:+[:snkc:] :snkc: [:qcf:+:snkb:~:snkd:]xN
  • Compiled list of SMP loops by starter here on Dustloop

Notable Videos:
Denpa (Naoto) v. Yu-Sama (Narukami) - Denpa took 3rd place in SBO, but the Narukami matchup still sucks for Naoto. Watching this set should give you some idea of her options, at least.

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Comments

  • Fore God ViiFore God Vii Level 2 Member Joined: Posts: 475
    I can't seem to do any versino of smp loop -_-
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  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    Just keep at it - the two I have up so far are actually pretty easy once you get the timing for the trap set down. The other "problem" spot, at least in the 5AA starter SMP loop, is the 2[C] (hold 2C); you have to delay it so you get all three hits. If you backdash early as possible after 236A~D (again, in the 5AA starter combo), it will time the 2[C] for you perfectly. I prefer not doing the backdash personally, though.

    The IAD loop (off of D trap hit / 2B antiair midscreen) is quite a bit harder.
  • FinalFantasyFinalFantasy Joined: Posts: 190
    The only thing in this game I can do is the SMP loop...I don't even know if I will play this character either so Im not sure why I learned it. :/
    PSN: Linity
  • XShoryuken 26XShoryuken 26 Joined: Posts: 179
    curious, what's an smp loop?
  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    curious, what's an smp loop?
    The SMP loop is a loop exploiting a design decision Arc System Works made when implementing Same Move Proration (hence the name). Basically, if you do ten attacks with SMP in one combo, all future attacks in that combo completely ignore SMP. Generally this is neigh-impossible, because hitstun deterioration is directly tied to combo scaling, but Naoto can do it by abusing her Mudoon super or One More Burst, both of which greatly increase the hitstun of the rest of the combo in which they are used. Once she has successfully landed ten attacks with same move proration, she is free to loop 236B~D ad nauseum. It's not an infinite (it does stop eventually, with how soon depending on starter), but the a "low damage" SMP loop will still typically break 7000 damage.

    This combo video demonstrates some SMP loops, including several I have not added to the first post:
  • Fore God ViiFore God Vii Level 2 Member Joined: Posts: 475
    Just keep at it - the two I have up so far are actually pretty easy once you get the timing for the trap set down. The other "problem" spot, at least in the 5AA starter SMP loop, is the 2[C] (hold 2C); you have to delay it so you get all three hits. If you backdash early as possible after 236A~D (again, in the 5AA starter combo), it will time the 2[C] for you perfectly. I prefer not doing the backdash personally, though.

    The IAD loop (off of D trap hit / 2B antiair midscreen) is quite a bit harder.

    i've been trying to do smp loop all day and still can't get it i get stuck after i do the sweep into 236 A and wait for trap to hit i can't backdash and get 2c to hit the dummy always recovers right when it hits or about to hit

    does the trap timing matter? i just do it as early as possibe
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  • XShoryuken 26XShoryuken 26 Joined: Posts: 179
    The SMP loop is a loop exploiting a design decision Arc System Works made when implementing Same Move Proration (hence the name). Basically, if you do ten attacks with SMP in one combo, all future attacks in that combo completely ignore SMP. Generally this is neigh-impossible, because hitstun deterioration is directly tied to combo scaling, but Naoto can do it by abusing her Mudoon super or One More Burst, both of which greatly increase the hitstun of the rest of the combo in which they are used. Once she has successfully landed ten attacks with same move proration, she is free to loop 236B~D ad nauseum. It's not an infinite (it does stop eventually, with how soon depending on starter), but the a "low damage" SMP loop will still typically break 7000 damage.

    This combo video demonstrates some SMP loops, including several I have not added to the first post:
    ahh I remember hearing about that when I was studying about blazblue. Are there any other characters that can do the loop at the moment? Naoto's loop looks really easy, but then again i could be wrong haha. Thanks for the information!
  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    i've been trying to do smp loop all day and still can't get it i get stuck after i do the sweep into 236 A and wait for trap to hit i can't backdash and get 2c to hit the dummy always recovers right when it hits or about to hit

    does the trap timing matter? i just do it as early as possibe
    It shouldn't, but the jump timing does - I time the start of my jump to right when I visually confirm the "wallsplat" circles from Mudoon, and then just do j.214D as soon as the persona is available again, land, and 2A+B 236A~D with the right timing to catch the falling enemy. If you're doing the 236A~D (backdash) method for timing the 2[C], buffer the backdash into the "un-aiming" animation of 236A~D; you want to do it on the first frame possible, and then start 2[C] right away as your backdash ends. That said, the backdash is optional, and you can just do (...) 236A~D (trap hit) (delay till the enemy is about to start falling) 2[C] 5C (236B~D)xN instead (that's what I do).
    ahh I remember hearing about that when I was studying about blazblue. Are there any other characters that can do the loop at the moment? Naoto's loop looks really easy, but then again i could be wrong haha. Thanks for the information!

    It was actually found in P4A before it was known in Blazblue, not that it's actually practical in BB. Naoto's is the only SMP loop I'm aware of in P4A. It's a little harder than it looks (there are several awkwardly long delays in the lead-in combos), but it's still pretty easy, especially the actual loop part. You just hold D and do 236B with halfway decent timing, mostly (some of the ones in the combo video are more complex than this, but that's the gist of the basic ones).
  • Fore God ViiFore God Vii Level 2 Member Joined: Posts: 475
    It shouldn't, but the jump timing does - I time the start of my jump to right when I visually confirm the "wallsplat" circles from Mudoon, and then just do j.214D as soon as the persona is available again, land, and 2A+B 236A~D with the right timing to catch the falling enemy. If you're doing the 236A~D (backdash) method for timing the 2[C], buffer the backdash into the "un-aiming" animation of 236A~D; you want to do it on the first frame possible, and then start 2[C] right away as your backdash ends. That said, the backdash is optional, and you can just do (...) 236A~D (trap hit) (delay till the enemy is about to start falling) 2[C] 5C (236B~D)xN instead (that's what I do).



    It was actually found in P4A before it was known in Blazblue, not that it's actually practical in BB. Naoto's is the only SMP loop I'm aware of in P4A. It's a little harder than it looks (there are several awkwardly long delays in the lead-in combos), but it's still pretty easy, especially the actual loop part. You just hold D and do 236B with halfway decent timing, mostly (some of the ones in the combo video are more complex than this, but that's the gist of the basic ones).

    for the jump timing i just hold up forward right after mudoon so im doing it wrong?
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  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    Yes, that's too early.
  • Fore God ViiFore God Vii Level 2 Member Joined: Posts: 475
    WOOOOWWWW i was doin the b version not the a version lololol its easy now
    XBL: CaptainxClas A.K.A ITSHiCLASYO, Fore God VII
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  • RedVegaRedVega Joined: Posts: 861
    Guys sorry but i have two questions what are IADs and in the SMP loop tab you included a J.9 what exactly is that move? thanks

    oh and whats a 665? airdash?
  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    IAD is "Instant air dash", input as 956, aka :uf::f: with a neutral in between. This will cause you to airdash as low to the ground as possible.
    j.9 is "jump in the 9 direction", aka :uf:.
  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    (double post, but I forgot to answer your question about what 665C was)

    "665C" means "micro-dash 5C". If you've played Blazblue, it's like what you had to do to combo after Lambda's ground throw in CS1; you do a dash and immediately cancel it into a normal (5C in this case), causing yourself to slide forwards as the normal comes out. "66 5C" (with a space) denotes that you do a "real" dash and then 5C.
  • bluASTERiSKbluASTERiSK ブルアストリスク Joined: Posts: 609
    I've been in the training room for a bit and noticed after a double fang into snipe when you jump back C you can cancel that into j.D to keep the pressure on. I'm sure some of you know, just sharing :3
  • Fore God ViiFore God Vii Level 2 Member Joined: Posts: 475
    What combos do you guys usually do after D trap besides the one in thread
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  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    What combos do you guys usually do after D trap besides the one in thread
    If they don't have burst and I do, I go for the midscreen OMB SMP loop shown off on S.Labrys in the combo video I posted earlier. It does ~8500.
  • bluASTERiSKbluASTERiSK ブルアストリスク Joined: Posts: 609
    I really need to learn the match ups, I feel confident in winning but these players are pulling out attacks I don't even know the character is capable of :|
  • Kreative MenteKreative Mente GamerTag: Kreative Mente Joined: Posts: 590
    FINALLY got Challenge 30 for Naoto Done. Apparently the game didnt expect us to do the SMP loop. After you clear it, the demonstration video is unlocked.

    Mika/Ibuki (One Day) - Orchid/Everyone Else - Nova/Spencer/Doom
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  • Rofl_botRofl_bot Mr. Mayor Joined: Posts: 198
    I'm having trouble with the SMP loop - _-

    I get all the way through the combo, but they always drop out after the 2nd 236B~D.

    Is the timing between each 236B pretty strict? I'm doing the exact notation for the 2AA starter and am getting all 3 hits of 2[C].
  • bluASTERiSKbluASTERiSK ブルアストリスク Joined: Posts: 609
    Pretty sad that I got the loop down but it wasn't good enough to do challenge 30 for Naoto :(
  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    Pretty sad that I got the loop down but it wasn't good enough to do challenge 30 for Naoto :(
    You'll have to do an advanced variant of the loop for that; try using Raid~C/D as the starter.

    214214A~C/D OMB 2[C] 236236D 214D 236A~D 2[C] 5C (236B~D)xN (optional 236236A/B at the end if you can't get the loop to go long enough).
    I'm having trouble with the SMP loop - _-
    I get all the way through the combo, but they always drop out after the 2nd 236B~D.
    Is the timing between each 236B pretty strict? I'm doing the exact notation for the 2AA starter and am getting all 3 hits of 2[C].
    I personally don't think it's strict, but it's also not just "do it as fast as possible"; there is a specific timing for the 236B~Ds. I'm not sure how to tell you to find it, but it is (or at least feels to me) the same as the timing you can use to do (236B~D)x3 raw in the corner outside the SMP loop (for awful damage), so maybe practice that?
  • Kreative MenteKreative Mente GamerTag: Kreative Mente Joined: Posts: 590
    I'm having trouble with the SMP loop - _-

    I get all the way through the combo, but they always drop out after the 2nd 236B~D.

    Is the timing between each 236B pretty strict? I'm doing the exact notation for the 2AA starter and am getting all 3 hits of 2[C].


    Are you doing 5C after the 2[C] ??
    Mika/Ibuki (One Day) - Orchid/Everyone Else - Nova/Spencer/Doom
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  • Fore God ViiFore God Vii Level 2 Member Joined: Posts: 475
    This is my recorded smp loop being playedback in training mode

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  • Rofl_botRofl_bot Mr. Mayor Joined: Posts: 198
    OOHHHH.

    I feel silly now.

    I was doing 2AA to start instead of 5AA. Now I can do it.

    edit:
    I've been working on some other set-ups. My favorite one so far I saw in a video but I haven't seen the notation written anywhere.

    214D trap hits, 2A 5AAAA 5CCCCC 236236D 2[C] 5C [236B~D]xN

    The super cancel from the snipe is super easy if you do it like

    5CCCC 236C 236D
  • bluASTERiSKbluASTERiSK ブルアストリスク Joined: Posts: 609
    Man people jump in on me for free all the time, are there any anti airs other than cr B and counter shot?
  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    Depending on where they're jumping at you from, 214A~B and 214A~C can be useful. Other options include jump back j.D and j.B, as well as evasion via 5A+C, 214B, and 214A+B. Keeping C traps just above head level and slightly in front of you helps a ton too, and should probably be #1 on the list of ways to make people jump at you less.
  • RedVegaRedVega Joined: Posts: 861
    Guys besides the SMP loop what are other uses for her special(236236) C and D?
  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    (2A/j.C) 5AAA 236236C and (5B/2B) (5C) 2C 236236D for easy confirm into IK if they have 0 fate (normals in parentheses are optional). 236236C is pretty much useless otherwise.

    Honestly, other that that you're best off just saving your meter for SBs and loops. 214C+D and 214A+B are both extremely solid for 25sp.
  • bluASTERiSKbluASTERiSK ブルアストリスク Joined: Posts: 609
    Guys besides the SMP loop what are other uses for her special(236236) C and D?
    If those connect and their fatal counter is at 0 then its an instant kill
  • Persona Non GrataPersona Non Grata Joined: Posts: 2
    Are there specific attacks that lower the counter?
  • saitoryu20saitoryu20 Joined: Posts: 188
    Are there specific attacks that lower the counter?
    Yes lol All versions of Aim take off 1 counter. Her Persona has some attacks that take off counters too. I believe it's Crouch C. After a throw if you follow up with C it takes 2 counters. If you attack with D and follow up Crouch C also takes two counters. Her traps take counters off as well. Her supers with the SMG and Shotgun also take off counters. (I believe it's 5 but I need to study on them more)
  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    Are there specific attacks that lower the counter?
    Snipe (Any), 5th Shot: -1
    214214A/B~B: -1 per shot (Mostly just a waste of meter)
    2C: -2
    C+D~C: -2
    B+D~6X: -2
    B+D~X: -3
    214C/D: -3
    236236B: -6

    Normally, only the first fate primer-removing attack in a combo will remove primers. 236236B is an exception - it always removes 6 even if they enemy has already lost some fate to another attack earlier in a combo.
  • Fore God ViiFore God Vii Level 2 Member Joined: Posts: 475
    I was watching a naoto setup vid and the guy in it did 5A 5C 236A~D 66 5C IAD j.a j.c 5C 236A

    I can't seem to get the 5c after the 66 they always drop out... any tips?
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  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    Are you sure it wasn't 236B~D?
    Also, possibly do 665C instead of a longer dash.

    If you link the video, I'll probably be better able to help.
  • Fore God ViiFore God Vii Level 2 Member Joined: Posts: 475
    Are you sure it wasn't 236B~D?
    Also, possibly do 665C instead of a longer dash.

    If you link the video, I'll probably be better able to help.

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  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    That's 236B~D. The combos are
    1: 5B 5C 236B~D 665C IAD j.B* j.C 5C 236A~D (setup 214C/D for oki)
    2: (D trap hit) 5C IAD j.A j.C 665C 236B~D 66 5C IAD j.A j.C 665C 236A~Bx5 (can also do ~D, trap set to get oki)

    *- I'm like 99% sure you can do a j.A here instead and it's easier
  • RedVegaRedVega Joined: Posts: 861
    Guys im a bit confused...I don't know exactly how Naoto is meant to be played (I have been winning most of my matches on ranked and player matches though). Is she supposed to be a keep-away character with her traps or a rush-down as it seems from the combo videos?
    I've been playing her as a keep-away with her traps and just combo off her traps...plus some people online already starting bitching about this specific keep-away style...so yeah just wondering if shes a keep-away or a rush down or can be used as both?
  • stickystainesstickystaines Joined: Posts: 835
    From what ive seen from the best players that play her, you can rush down pretty well once you have an advantage, but in neutral situations you want a more cautious trap-and-shoot based game.





    These two are some of the better Naotos ive seen.
  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    Guys im a bit confused...I don't know exactly how Naoto is meant to be played (I have been winning most of my matches on ranked and player matches though). Is she supposed to be a keep-away character with her traps or a rush-down as it seems from the combo videos?
    I've been playing her as a keep-away with her traps and just combo off her traps...plus some people online already starting bitching about this specific keep-away style...so yeah just wondering if shes a keep-away or a rush down or can be used as both?

    It really depends on the matchup. You basically want to do anything other than playing a midrange game; Naoto is good from fullscreen and she is good in your face, but she kind of sucks in-between.

    Versus Kanji, for instance, I recommend zoning with traps and gunfire until you get a hit you can confirm into the SMP or IAD loops, then setting up a D trap 50-50 (or DP bait) off of that. Versus Shadow Labrys, you want to RTSD as hard as you can.
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