I need help against Honda

bkfst_sausagebkfst_sausage ST / SRK2k3 OGJoined: Posts: 2,802
Damn you, Guru, damn you....


Anyway, I've been playing this game for well over a decade, and have always have problems with Honda - and it has a lot to do with my mains, all being easy targets for the sumo. My main is Blanka, and my secondary/thirds/etc... Hawk, Cammy, Dictator...

That said, I end up having to resort to gimmicky shit, like Blanka's j.lk crossups and poking Honda out of headbutts with s.lk, but one is reckless and unsafe, and the other doesn't give me any advantage. I can't get in throw range a lot because Ochio beats it... Cammy, I just poke a lot and can't do much else. Dictator, I do PC's to anticipate headbutts, but it doesn't always work...

Now, I'm willing to learn some other character, as I can use Guile, DJ, and Chun fairly decently - but TBH: I don't even have their footsies / normal pokes down that well, whereas Blanka I can play footsies all day... I'm unwilling to learn a Shoto in this game... I've tried Shotos for too long in SF2 and I just hate they way they play.

Any tips?
Thanks.
PSN: M1X4H < click it!

Comments

  • WolmarWolmar Joined: Posts: 184
    To beat honda quite easily, pick DJ.
    - jump back lp beats EVERY headbutts (including super).
    - just throw max out the hell out, but not brainlessly ; use it when honda is far, and use it also as an anti air, going backwards waiting for him to jump (HP version is best in this case). If honda tries to buttslam through the max out, either sweep him (be careful to touch him when he's about to reach the ground, your slide just hitting with the edge of your slide hitbox), or jump forward HK on the way up (mostly on the HK version of buttslam). Beat straight up buttslams by late LK jacknife (ensures you to hit wether it's crossing you up or not). If stucked in the corner, try reversal machine gun upper (and not jacknife), or mash throw with all you've got. Use jacknife / slide / down MK for classic anti airs, on his jumps. Never cross him up, unless he stucked you in the corner and you managed to knock him on the floor. Use a blockstring combo to be sure to push him far away.
    Against Balrog, it determine the direction Shoryu fist input is difficult. Has been condemned to the left orinput, so right. I try to issue a reversal is born so firmly command you miss wandering.
  • bkfst_sausagebkfst_sausage ST / SRK2k3 OG Joined: Posts: 2,802
    Hmm, those are good strategies. I like how you said don't jacknife out, as I've done that and gotten ochio'd.

    I'm going to try this stuff when I play Guru next time.
    Much appreciated.
    PSN: M1X4H < click it!
  • SNAAAAKESNAAAAKE WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!? Joined: Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    o.sagat fireball/upperbutt everything with occasional tigerknee + throw/dp mixup.

    eZ >:(
    you must defeat my Shen Long to receive the reward

  • bkfst_sausagebkfst_sausage ST / SRK2k3 OG Joined: Posts: 2,802
    o.sagat fireball/upperbutt everything

    eZ >:(
    I hate that strategy though. It doesn't make me have to think enough and I get bored and mess it up.
    PSN: M1X4H < click it!
  • SNAAAAKESNAAAAKE WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!? Joined: Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    but it works against honda...and everyone else:coffee:
    you must defeat my Shen Long to receive the reward

  • SotoSoto The un-safe jump master. ~FrankieSnow~ Joined: Posts: 244
    with cammy you can do jumps with mp, lots of vertical jumps also and low drill do pressure and stops head
  • bkfst_sausagebkfst_sausage ST / SRK2k3 OG Joined: Posts: 2,802
    Low drill stops headbutts? Damn... That's news to me. Thanks for that.
    PSN: M1X4H < click it!
  • ultracomboultracombo Weakest Loser Joined: Posts: 741
    o.sagat fireball/upperbutt everything with occasional tigerknee + throw/dp mixup.

    eZ >:(
    I hate that strategy though. It doesn't make me have to think enough and I get bored and mess it up.
    Huh, you guys can try that "EZ" strategy on me if you want. I'll play Honda too. Fuck, I'll play Cammy.

    also I lold at the tiger knee mixup. Enjoy your oicho, headbutt and TU whiffs :D
    "If ultracombo misses a low roundhouse, he is likely to continue doing it." - TheMuffinMan
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,131
    You basically have to play much more carefully and defensively. You characters have a hard time against Honda, but, except maybe for Cammy, they aren't as bad as a lot of people believe.

    With Blanka, neutral jump LK is great at stuffing most of Honda's attacks. Bore him to death to force him to take initiative, make him lose life trying to get past that n.j.LK. Doing a LK after you land from that is pretty safe too. If you see him walking forward too close, then that's when crossup LKs are most useful. Otherwise try to avoid jumping at him, you'll just get headbutted. Max range j.HK is pretty safe too, will stuff headbutts if timed correctly IIRC. Slide and cr.HP are good, relatively safe pokes.

    Against careless headbutts, jump over him and then do j.LK, cl.MP, HK or j.LK, cl.MPx2, cr.HP if you have the execution for it (this one will almost guarantee you a dizzy).

    Don't try to do many Blanka ball shenanigans like ball into throw or you'll get thrown. Corner ball crossups can be useful every now and then though.

    For Dictator, you should also try a defensive approach. Get back (don't corner yourself though) and wait for him. If he gets too headbutt happy, you can jump to avoid it and come down on him with a big combo into knockdown. He doesn't have good answers for crossups, so you can get the match with an ambiguous crossup into ToD afterwards. Headstomp is a relatively safe to deal chip damage; if you can, do some to get a life lead and then turtle to make him come at you. Badly timed hands can be punished with Psycho Crusher, and you can then try to ToD afterwards.

    If you use Psycho Crusher to counter headbutts, only use LP Crusher, as it has much more priority.

    As for Hawk, the strategy is simple, yet very difficult to execute. Turtle him doing repeated cr.LPs (stuff headbutts and Hands), force a knockdown (with dive, cr.HK or DP) and then do the safe jump option select loop. Not even Honda can escape it.

    Low hitting dives can't be punished with HP headbutt. You can try to trick Honda into punishing a low blocked dive with that, counter him with DP and start the loop. If he gets hit by a cr.LP, you can try to catch him off guard with a walk up throw as he comes down something to use sparingly of course).
  • bkfst_sausagebkfst_sausage ST / SRK2k3 OG Joined: Posts: 2,802
    Huh, you guys can try that "EZ" strategy on me if you want. I'll play Honda too. Fuck, I'll play Cammy.

    also I lold at the tiger knee mixup. Enjoy your oicho, headbutt and TU whiffs :D
    I was referring it to more of an execution standpoint... I get bored of using it. I just hate the way fireball / dp style characters works in ST.
    I'd personally rather use Ken than Ryu or Sagat if I was going to go with a bait style strategy like that in ST. He's more fun...

    But yeah, O.Gat's wack, and I can't combo into qc supers consistently, so I don't use those characters - except, oddly enough I can consistently do Cammy's c.mp, c.mp, xx super... odd.
    snip
    The Blanka and Dictator stuff is what I do, but I'm looking for something a bit more reliable, and less on hoping my opponent falls for something. Ryu is very straight forward in this and has a reliable tactic, but I'd rather not use him. The Hawk stuff is reliable, but honestly I don't have the execution to consistently get the option select. I end up eating ochios left and right when I try it. The DJ stuff mentioned before is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for though.
    PSN: M1X4H < click it!
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,131
    With anyone you play, it will be the same. Get a life lead and force him to come to you. Of course with Ryu and DJ it's much easier to apply, but search for some matches for the other characters and you'll see it can be done. Balrog also does this; do stand LP the whole round to make him come to you so he stops sitting on headbutt/oicho.
  • bkfst_sausagebkfst_sausage ST / SRK2k3 OG Joined: Posts: 2,802
    The baiting with Hawk works wonders. Now, I have to build up my reaction time, and I have a solid strategy against Honda.
    Still lost 10/0 in the Honda / Hawk matchup, but Guru's pretty fucking good with Honda, so I'm not salty about it...
    PSN: M1X4H < click it!
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